EPT[ASL9] Ro8 Day 4 - Page 4
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whylessness
United States376 Posts
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Miragee
8595 Posts
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goody153
44231 Posts
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
(I haven't watched a lot of pro SCBW) | ||
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prosatan
Romania8495 Posts
On April 07 2020 19:22 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Is that what they are saying in the English stream? It's obviously isn't true as can be seen by the skills they show every match this ASL. Strategically the players are more advanced, but it's painful to see that they are obviously worse in every other aspect. Yeap! Keep saying this nonsense....and they use superlative with such a nonchalance...much much better... | ||
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
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Garrl
Scotland1974 Posts
On April 07 2020 19:23 Mozdk wrote: What happens if Z goes for hydra bust, Protoss makes enough cannons, and Z doesn't actually attack? Isn't the protoss behind either way? (I haven't watched a lot of pro SCBW) you need a really high drone count in zvp, it's not like in zvt where you can get away with underdroning, so you're way behind if you can't bust. | ||
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prosatan
Romania8495 Posts
On April 07 2020 19:23 Mozdk wrote: What happens if Z goes for hydra bust, Protoss makes enough cannons, and Z doesn't actually attack? Isn't the protoss behind either way? (I haven't watched a lot of pro SCBW) Yes, protoss is behind if he does that! Thats why toss needs a corsair to fly over zergs base and see if they are making hydras , or pumping drones, or tech to lair | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5221 Posts
On April 07 2020 19:23 Mozdk wrote: What happens if Z goes for hydra bust, Protoss makes enough cannons, and Z doesn't actually attack? Isn't the protoss behind either way? (I haven't watched a lot of pro SCBW) But if it fails zerg has no economy no tech no army and P can push and punish. And also, they stay alive, which is important condition for winning. Edit: oh, doesn't attack, I read: "fails attack" nvm | ||
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
On April 07 2020 19:22 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Is that what they are saying in the English stream? It's obviously isn't true as can be seen by the skills they show every match this ASL. Strategically the players are more advanced, but it's painful to see that they are obviously worse in every other aspect. It's the narrative they've been pushing, I don't wanna say "always", but for a while at least. | ||
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prosatan
Romania8495 Posts
On April 07 2020 19:24 Garrl wrote: you need a really high drone count in zvp, it's not like in zvt where you can get away with underdroning, so you're way behind if you can't bust. If toss puts a million cannons and zergs take 4th(as in 9734) and places a few sunkens while droning, then zerg is ahead ! | ||
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
On April 07 2020 19:23 Mozdk wrote: What happens if Z goes for hydra bust, Protoss makes enough cannons, and Z doesn't actually attack? Isn't the protoss behind either way? (I haven't watched a lot of pro SCBW) usually zergs just keep protoss contained while fending off corsairs and going into another expansion. protoss goes for a one-big-army push with zealots goons and HTs after playing defensively, and zergs will use this opportunity to use mutalisks to snipe HTs. generally that's how the flow goes | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50585 Posts
On April 07 2020 19:24 PVJ wrote: But if it fails zerg has no economy no tech no army and P can push and punish. And also, they stay alive, which is important condition for winning. yeah even if you saw soma take that 4th, he cut a lot of drones and while he would have bases he would have to decide between making workers/units while bisu whos well defended would just counterattack before zerg gets enough. | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4227 Posts
On April 07 2020 19:25 Akio wrote: It's the narrative they've been pushing, I don't wanna say "always", but for a while at least. the knowledge of the game is MUCH, MUCH better nowadays than it was 10 years ago. The only thing worse is mechanics, because they don't play 12 hours a day anymore. Still very impressive to see professionals play mid and late game. The micro/macro/decision making is still astonishing to witness. | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4131 Posts
On April 07 2020 19:23 Mozdk wrote: What happens if Z goes for hydra bust, Protoss makes enough cannons, and Z doesn't actually attack? Isn't the protoss behind either way? (I haven't watched a lot of pro SCBW) Yeah, protoss is behind either way unless he manages to precisely predict the exact amount of cannons to block the exact amount of hydras zerg decided to build. I personally think that the danger and the Zergs' ability to do these kind of burst was the main reason why ZvP was(is) so favorable for zergs throughout the broodwar history, since, protosses could (can) only lose or go even in the first 10 minutes with the zergs, they do not have a winning move outside of zergs fucking something major up | ||
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Miragee
8595 Posts
On April 07 2020 19:22 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Is that what they are saying in the English stream? It's obviously isn't true as can be seen by the skills they show every match this ASL. Strategically the players are more advanced, but it's painful to see that they are obviously worse in every other aspect. Yeah... Although I think there is some genuine confusion here because Tastosis think that the general advanced strategies mean that each individual player is on a much higher level. Absolutely speaking that may be true but it doesn't make much sense to see it this way because strategy always evolves. Relatively speaking, they are not on a higher level. I mean, compare it to the time between 2000 and 2010. Strategies were obviously evolving at a high pace and were much more elaborate in 2007. However, on top of that, mechanics, sharpness etc. of the individual players also improved a lot. I have no doubt that the mechanics of a B-class pro player in the 2009/2010 era would have dominated the scene of 2000... | ||
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prosatan
Romania8495 Posts
On April 07 2020 19:27 M3t4PhYzX wrote: the knowledge of the game is MUCH, MUCH better nowadays than it was 10 years ago. The only thing worse is mechanics, because they don't play 12 hours a day anymore. Still very impressive to see late professionals play game. The micro/macro/decision making is still astonishing to witness. Agree 100% But Flash and Zero said that they in the past could beat them now if they practiced a bit the new meta. And Jaedong was 100% better in the past | ||
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prosatan
Romania8495 Posts
Not like action going 12 hatch | ||
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True_Spike
Poland3426 Posts
On April 07 2020 19:28 M2 wrote: Yeah, protoss is behind either way unless he manages to precisely predict the exact amount of cannons to block the exact amount of hydras zerg decided to build. I personally think that the danger and the Zergs' ability to do these kind of burst was the main reason why ZvP was(is) so favorable for zergs throughout the broodwar history, since, protosses could (can) only lose or go even in the first 10 minutes with the zergs, they do not have a winning move outside of zergs fucking something major up Hydra busts were not a thing in the old days though. The reason for historical imbalance in PvZ is multifold. | ||
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Deleted User 513418
138 Posts
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