EPT
[ASL8] Ro8 Day1 Last vs Snow
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
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Wonk
546 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
On August 04 2019 12:33 Wonk wrote: Even though I think Snow will probably take last, I will not be sorry in the least if we get a last/sharp ro4 TvT rematch. Their last one was a damn work of art their last few ones have been great despite what the results looked like. | ||
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SCC-Faust
United States3736 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4126 Posts
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superjoppe
Sweden3683 Posts
And so does Flash vs Rain! TvP (Flash vs Snow, or Last vs Rain) or PvP (Snow vs Rain) in the finals. I have no hope for the swarm this season. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13004 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia13004 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
On August 04 2019 18:11 RowdierBob wrote: Hopefully Snow doesn’t go for those silly two base carrier builds. 2 base carrier? That shit  Rocks | ||
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LaStScan
Korea (South)1289 Posts
On August 04 2019 15:09 Dante08 wrote: Snow should win easily, they played a Bo9 recently and Snow was just styling on Last at one point. Think the score ended 6-3 but the actual games were very Snow dominated. Both players are amazing, but last prepares a lot and definitely more than what flash does for offline tournaments. 끝장전(end of the game?) 9 game series is somewhat "instant" showmatch and both of the players don't have much of time to prepare. Also, P>T>Z>P rule affects a lot for a short preparation match. | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4231 Posts
Go go go Snow! | ||
TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
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Puosu
6985 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
this is hard to call. snow is so good with his shuttles but last knows this and he is a gosu. what will we see played?? | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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bovienchien
Vietnam1152 Posts
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bovienchien
Vietnam1152 Posts
On August 04 2019 19:19 Alejandrisha wrote: lr: lol; snow places robo at pylon outside base but is scouted immediately. what to do?? I think Snow should cancel that building to get 3rd base instead of it. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On August 04 2019 19:20 bovienchien wrote: I think Snow should cancel that building to get 3rd base instead of it. it seems like this was part of his build. after he finished it he got obs and reaverden in his main. seems like a big dedication but i guess it's ok since terran won't be there with anything other than vults for a while | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
sending dt's to contest the 3rd of last which seems inevitable but he is delaying it more than you would think would be apropro | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4126 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On August 04 2019 19:26 Dante08 wrote: Last has no chance of winning imo unless he goes for timing pushes. he is going to have to hit a sick 2:1 timing. this seems out of his grasp at this point | ||
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Motivate
2860 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
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Sorusaba
275 Posts
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Wonk
546 Posts
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ggsimida
1148 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4126 Posts
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Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4126 Posts
On August 04 2019 19:26 Alejandrisha wrote: he is going to have to hit a sick 2:1 timing. this seems out of his grasp at this point I mean the whole series | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4231 Posts
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KamMoye
United States721 Posts
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Puosu
6985 Posts
On August 04 2019 19:28 Jackal03 wrote: Masterful play by snow ya, beautiful game really | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On August 04 2019 19:28 Dante08 wrote: Those who thought Last has a chance haven't watched their Bo9 series in Starcraft End of the World. i keep saying.. those games are different from the ASL. though i do favor snow here as i said before. but never be surprised if online results don't equal offline results. | ||
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Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On August 04 2019 19:31 Jackal03 wrote: The timing of snow attacks was something amazing, looked like a "map hacker" lol i agree. it's like he always knows how many tanks the terran has and exactly where they are. usually when i play pvt i don't know where the tankline is or how deep it goes but i guess that's what makes him so much better than me :D | ||
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
On August 04 2019 19:31 Jackal03 wrote: The timing of snow attacks was something amazing, looked like a "map hacker" lol He had a ton of info, observers were never threatened; plus snow got intel with the shuttle. Masterful play with that proxy robo, I was watching with my mouth slightly agape. He got so much out of a scouted proxy that it's really frightening. | ||
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Puosu
6985 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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Motivate
2860 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
On August 04 2019 19:35 TaardadAiel wrote: He had a ton of info, observers were never threatened; plus snow got intel with the shuttle. Masterful play with that proxy robo, I was watching with my mouth slightly agape. He got so much out of a scouted proxy that it's really frightening. Also the shuttle scout, the information control of snow is really great | ||
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Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
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Wonk
546 Posts
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Motivate
2860 Posts
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maybenexttime
Poland5536 Posts
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Puosu
6985 Posts
On August 04 2019 19:36 Puosu wrote: probe range is ridic correction, Snow is ridic | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
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Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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Wonk
546 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On August 04 2019 19:46 Wonk wrote: I've never felt this bad for a human being ever fo rela | ||
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Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
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Geographer
United States185 Posts
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Geographer
United States185 Posts
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Motivate
2860 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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N.geNuity
United States5112 Posts
On August 04 2019 19:51 Geographer wrote: Last sucks tonight. game 1 was much more snow being good than last being bad | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On August 04 2019 19:52 Motivate wrote: can terrans please learn tvp instead of spending all their time making 1-1-1 and mech builds verse zerg nope same builds for years and years and years. like 2 builds? maybe 1 build?? | ||
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Geographer
United States185 Posts
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BulgarianToss
Bulgaria484 Posts
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Puosu
6985 Posts
Last oggogogo | ||
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Geographer
United States185 Posts
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Wonk
546 Posts
On August 04 2019 19:57 Geographer wrote: This match will be over in 90 minutes which is an insult to the fans who came to the studio. Afreeca needs to somehow make these matches more competitive or people will stop watching. maybe afreeca should tie one of snow's hands behind his back to ensure balance | ||
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
On August 04 2019 19:57 Geographer wrote: This match will be over in 90 minutes which is an insult to the fans who came to the studio. Afreeca needs to somehow make these matches more competitive or people will stop watching. I seriously hope you are joking. | ||
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Geographer
United States185 Posts
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Geographer
United States185 Posts
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KamMoye
United States721 Posts
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Motivate
2860 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
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GTR
51431 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50110 Posts
On August 04 2019 20:07 Geographer wrote: Fans prefer competitive games and long series to stomps. this is Esports, not Esports Entertainment. | ||
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Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
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Wonk
546 Posts
On August 04 2019 20:07 Geographer wrote: Fans prefer competitive games and long series to stomps. fans also prefer BW as it is. What do you want them to do? Snow is the best PvTer in the world. The map pool is pretty close to balanced, you have to accept that sometimes you'll see stomps, it's the nature of competition. Man, I was expecting Snow to win but not this easily. that was a real bopping. | ||
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geod
Vietnam450 Posts
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BulgarianToss
Bulgaria484 Posts
On August 04 2019 19:57 Geographer wrote: This match will be over in 90 minutes which is an insult to the fans who came to the studio. Afreeca needs to somehow make these matches more competitive or people will stop watching. Come on, it's just a bo5 match, how long do you expect it to be. 5 games could've been played in less if there were more all ins and cheese plays. These were three proper games where Snow just demonstrated he can dominate the game vs Last. Very impressed with Snow's PvT, Last is no joke! | ||
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Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
On August 04 2019 20:07 Geographer wrote: Fans prefer competitive games and long series to stomps. Lol, let's enforce a "no rush 15min" rule | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On August 04 2019 19:55 Geographer wrote: It's a sad day for Terrans when Light has better PvT than Last. Snow isn't even that good and Last is making him look like Bisu. Snow isn't that good? Based on what, exactly? Last's wrists are always a wild card but even then, Snow's PvT is probably the best there is at the moment. | ||
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Geographer
United States185 Posts
How the hell did Last prepare? Did he even watch Snow's games? Snow didn't do anything unusual or extraordinary, Last just reacted poorly to everything. | ||
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
On August 04 2019 20:07 Geographer wrote: Fans prefer competitive games and long series to stomps. And it's players' business to prevent stomps and NOT afreeca's. They do their best picking wonky maps, but that's pretty much it, it's absurd to expect the organizer to try and affect the balance with more than a carefully selected mappool. What are they supposed to do? Take the better players' keyboards away? | ||
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
On August 04 2019 20:15 TaardadAiel wrote: Flash has a slow sweat drip down his back right now. he won't make it past Rain either way | ||
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Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
He's not quite peak level Jangbi yet but he's getting there holy shit. | ||
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Geographer
United States185 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
A very bold statement! | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4231 Posts
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JoinTheRain
Bulgaria408 Posts
On August 04 2019 19:57 Geographer wrote: This match will be over in 90 minutes which is an insult to the fans who came to the studio. Afreeca needs to somehow make these matches more competitive or people will stop watching. What! If you go to see a fight and it ends with a 20 second knockout, would you expect the organizer to meddle with the fighters for the next fight so that the fights last longer? I hope not. If you're into scripted things, watch WWE or whatever it is called now. But to complain that one BW player is so outclassing the other that they need outside regulation to make it more entertaining for you - what insolence is this? | ||
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
Rain's form is good enough for me to be bold | ||
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geod
Vietnam450 Posts
On August 04 2019 20:28 Geographer wrote: Snow lost to the amateur ZeLot who got absolutely stomped in the next round. It's hard to call Snow elite so soon after that. His PvT is not just elite but is No 1 unquestionably. ZeLot plays Zerg so totally irrelevant. And i'm a die hard Stork fan. | ||
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
On August 04 2019 20:36 geod wrote: His PvT is not just elite but is No 1 unquestionably. ZeLot plays Zerg so totally irrelevant. even better than Rain? I guess he could be but does one bo5 automatically make him better? | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On August 04 2019 20:38 AzAlexZ wrote: even better than Rain? I guess he could be but does one bo5 automatically make him better? Rain's PvT is very good but I don't think it's as good as Snow's. | ||
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geod
Vietnam450 Posts
On August 04 2019 20:38 AzAlexZ wrote: even better than Rain? I guess he could be but does one bo5 automatically make him better? Of course not just this Bo 5 he is the only P that wins over Flash in a Bo5 since like forever. | ||
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nikolaus8844
104 Posts
 Snow is not that good, Snow didn't do anything unusual or extraordinary, and Flash won't make it past Rain. I'm just... short on words to write in response to these statements.I think Artosis was spot-on in his repetitive remark that Last is approaching his opponent the wrong. Playing standard vs the very best really does put you against the odds. | ||
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Geographer
United States185 Posts
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
On August 04 2019 20:35 AzAlexZ wrote: Rain's form is good enough for me to be bold Stats suggest otherwise, to be honest, but Flash is not somebody to underestimate anyone, least of all Rain whose style he knows fairly well. This is not to say Rain is not dangerous, of course. | ||
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
On August 04 2019 20:45 TaardadAiel wrote: Stats suggest otherwise, to be honest, but Flash is not somebody to underestimate anyone, least of all Rain whose style he knows fairly well. This is not to say Rain is not dangerous, of course. I mean Rain literally just won a tourney, so I'm sure he will ride the momentum. Being a long-term fan of Rain, he's been known to not one crumble under high expectations (he does get super lazy lol) Flash is still really strong though, so I guess it might be close, just recency bias for Rain (and bias for him anyways, I support Rain more than anyone) | ||
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Dante08
Singapore4126 Posts
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
Edit: Snow needs Flash to knock Rain out. He's probablly the only player in the World who wants to play Flash not Rain. | ||
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
On August 04 2019 21:42 Greg_J wrote: Dominant performance from Snow. Edit: Snow needs Flash to knock Rain out. He's probablly the only player in the World who wants to play Flash not Rain. This. | ||
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TiQ.SinGi
Norway385 Posts
On the up-side it will make for a very interesting ro4 on this side of the bracket. I think Action is quite happy with this result, and if he meets snow in the next round he might go all the way to the finals. If Action meets Rain in the finals then I think Action might take it! But if Sharp wins over Action, most likley Snow goes to the finals, and if he meets Flash there I think Snow might win, if he meets Rain in a PvP then I'm betting on Rain becoming the champ. Although I'm really hoping the finals will end in a non mirror-mu whoever gets there. | ||
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whaski
Finland576 Posts
On August 04 2019 21:21 Dante08 wrote: Those surprised at the result obviously don't follow BW closely. Snow is the by far the BEST PvT player and Terrans other than Flash suck at TvP. Like suddently player who used to play with 350+ apm has sub 200 apm and has negative winrates across the board... It is very painfull to see Last unable to perform like he used to. | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
On August 04 2019 21:53 whaski wrote: Like suddently player who used to play with 350+ apm has sub 200 apm and has negative winrates across the board... It is very painfull to see Last unable to perform like he used to. Yeah, Last really needs some rest. His performance was OK seeing how bad his wrists were, he told on KSL he went to doctor. I know what is wrist pain, actually got some on left hand because of spamming lately, can't imagine how hard for Last smashing buttons when you feel that pain constantly. | ||
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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TornadoSteve
1011 Posts
On the other hand, SnOw was really impressive. I always thought he had some major macro leaks, like his probe transfert, he forget pylones way more than others Top P, etc. But today everything seemed on point, and his decisions making was Flashesque | ||
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
So, the defending ASL champion is that afraid of Snow and his abuse. Nothing out of the ordinary. | ||
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whaski
Finland576 Posts
On August 04 2019 22:55 Alpha-NP- wrote: Why does everyone jump to the conclusion Last lost because of wrist pain? Has he at least said he had wrist pain recently? I think it is just people making excuses. http://bj.afreecatv.com/rlatjdgus228/posts?page=3 You can google- translate these entries and later ones, I don't think Last would lie about stopping streaming and such. Besides, would Last have won KSL or ASL with this kind of performance? Would he have placed constantly top in sponsored matches? Yes, Last has tendency to crumble under pressure but today it that was not the case. Just bad mechanical execution in every way. | ||
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Starecat
936 Posts
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Wonk
546 Posts
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lepape
Canada557 Posts
That third expansion denial in game 1 with DTs and Reaver, that Shuttle surviving impossible odds in game 2, the outmanoeuvering and outflanking in game 3, when almost any other Protoss in the world would have panicked. Masterfully done, he makes that matchup look so easy. | ||
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
On August 05 2019 01:07 Wonk wrote: Where did all these "Flash won't make it past rain" conclusions come from? Rain is undeniably the best PvPer in the world but his PvT has never been anything spectacular (compared to his PvP, at least), and certainly not up to the calibre of snow's in terms of decision making. It’s just fanboyism. Let them think what they want. We both know Flash will probably win big. | ||
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Jaeyun
United States202 Posts
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VioleTAK
4315 Posts
The feeling of this series reminded me of Bisu vs Savior. I'm truly hoping for Snow vs Flash finals  | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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Miragee
8497 Posts
On August 05 2019 01:39 lepape wrote: Those three games were a true work of art by Snow. That third expansion denial in game 1 with DTs and Reaver, that Shuttle surviving impossible odds in game 2, the outmanoeuvering and outflanking in game 3, when almost any other Protoss in the world would have panicked. Masterfully done, he makes that matchup look so easy. Just watched the games and can only agree. It's always amazing to see with how much care Snow maneuvers his units around the map in PvT to get all those advantages. Simply amazing strategic play paired with great micro. On August 04 2019 20:22 Xain0n wrote: Snow isn't that good? Based on what, exactly? Last's wrists are always a wild card but even then, Snow's PvT is probably the best there is at the moment. Especially when Bisu's worst match up has always been PvT. | ||
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AF0x
United States59 Posts
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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QOGQOG
834 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4126 Posts
On August 05 2019 01:07 Wonk wrote: Where did all these "Flash won't make it past rain" conclusions come from? Rain is undeniably the best PvPer in the world but his PvT has never been anything spectacular (compared to his PvP, at least), and certainly not up to the calibre of snow's in terms of decision making. Yeah it's weird, like where are they getting that conclusion from. In the previous match thread someone looked up the sponbang stats and Rain has a <20% win rate vs Flash last month. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On August 05 2019 10:09 Dante08 wrote: Yeah it's weird, like where are they getting that conclusion from. In the previous match thread someone looked up the sponbang stats and Rain has a <20% win rate vs Flash last month. ever since he lost to sharp by making an umbillion mistakes i have discounted his pvt as well. idk if that series was 100% his pvt but it definitely made me wonder. that series is when i started getting high on sharp. and not just because he looks like a korean seth macfarlane | ||
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konadora
Singapore66156 Posts
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Nematocyst
United States164 Posts
Snow can certainly deliver. I can't help but remember his game on Whiteout vs Soulkey in ASL7 Ro16 (where Snow was sadly also eliminated by Last). That game was superb. | ||
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Brainojack
Canada195 Posts
On August 05 2019 11:00 Nematocyst wrote: Too bad for Last. He won ASL7 while facing elimination 5 times. The match vs Sharp was awesome, and the match vs Rain in the semis was one of the most thrilling I've seen. The Mini - Effort semifinal was great also. Hoping ASL8 has matches like that as we get deeper. Snow can certainly deliver. I can't help but remember his game on Whiteout vs Soulkey in ASL7 Ro16 (where Snow was sadly also eliminated by Last). That game was superb. He was eliminated by Last previously but when Snow's BGM choice is 'The Circle if Life' he must've known what was up | ||
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Turbovolver
Australia2392 Posts
On August 05 2019 10:09 Dante08 wrote: Yeah it's weird, like where are they getting that conclusion from. In the previous match thread someone looked up the sponbang stats and Rain has a <20% win rate vs Flash last month. Best 36% snow 28% Stork 26% Mini 25% Jaehoon 20% Rain 19% LOL their boy losing out to Jaehoon Gotta admit I didn't expect Best to be that high, though. | ||
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Dante08
Singapore4126 Posts
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A.Alm
Sweden512 Posts
Snow's PvZ is not that good imo, so i think he will have a tough time if Action wins against Sharp. I would like to see Snow vs Sharp in bo4 and Snow vs Flash in finals. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On August 05 2019 19:13 A.Alm wrote: I almost can't believe how good Snow and Mini's reaver/speedShuttle micro is. I also can't believe how bad my micro is when i try this out. Very fun style to play, though. Snow's PvZ is not that good imo, so i think he will have a tough time if Action wins against Sharp. I would like to see Snow vs Sharp in bo4 and Snow vs Flash in finals. Snow's PvZ is not his best offline but online he has a good ratio; also, he advanced over Soulkey in the last KSL. Snow vs Action, if it happens, will be hard to predict. | ||
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A.Alm
Sweden512 Posts
On August 05 2019 19:27 Xain0n wrote: Snow's PvZ is not his best offline but online he has a good ratio; also, he advanced over Soulkey in the last KSL. Snow vs Action, if it happens, will be hard to predict. Snow did not stand a chance vs Larva in the late game when they played these 9 show matches recently. If it comes to Snow vs Action, i think Snow can win in the early/mid game. He might be able to pull of some corsair/reaver plays with a 2 base Zelot timing follow up, or some similar timing push. If i recall, that's how he won against Soulkey. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4730 Posts
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ZidaneTribal
United States2800 Posts
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TornadoSteve
1011 Posts
On August 05 2019 19:48 Uldridge wrote: Snow is always a threat in Bo5 though. I remember when everyone thought he'd be easy pickings for Jaedong in their series and he still brought it to 5 games. Snow is a very good BoX player. Especially against Rain in KSL 3 | ||
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Snorkels
United States1015 Posts
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QOGQOG
834 Posts
Given that no Protoss has beaten Rain in a series in quite some time, I think that can be forgiven. On August 05 2019 19:44 A.Alm wrote: Snow did not stand a chance vs Larva in the late game when they played these 9 show matches recently. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xvv0Ghi9f1k If it comes to Snow vs Action, i think Snow can win in the early/mid game. He might be able to pull of some corsair/reaver plays with a 2 base Zelot timing follow up, or some similar timing push. If i recall, that's how he won against Soulkey. Snow has a higher win rate vZ than vT online, it just depends on whether he'll be able to bring it offline. He did take out Miso, Shine, and SoulKey in KSL, so he should have a decent chance of doing so. | ||
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RWLabs
Korea (South)273 Posts
Rain is notorious for being lazy about StarCraft when he streams. His Sponbbang results have pretty much never been great, and he plays much less than most others. But somehow he keeps winning offline matches. Flash is still probably the favourite to win, but an online Rain and an offline Rain are two completely different people. Even if Rain wins it shouldn't be too much of a surprise. | ||
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Brainojack
Canada195 Posts
In the first game Last's scv passes Snows probe taking a weird scouting path at around 2:10. Would it be fair to say that Last knew about at least the rough position of the proxy pylon then and later only had to confirm it after snow placed a building? | ||
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Turbovolver
Australia2392 Posts
On August 06 2019 05:05 RWLabs wrote: Something everyone should be aware of about Rain: Rain is notorious for being lazy about StarCraft when he streams. His Sponbbang results have pretty much never been great, and he plays much less than most others. But somehow he keeps winning offline matches. Flash is still probably the favourite to win, but an online Rain and an offline Rain are two completely different people. Even if Rain wins it shouldn't be too much of a surprise. Thanks, this is useful context to know, and I say that sincerely. *goes right back to furious Rain anti-fanning* | ||
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