
[ASL8] Ro24 Group B
Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments |
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49886 Posts
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oEkY
Germany645 Posts
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jjmmtt
Australia995 Posts
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TornadoSteve
1000 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
He is clearly, clearly, CLEARLY. The top dog in this group. I am tired of seeing the most creative, talented zergs getting wrecked on any map with unique features. Please make map specific builds my zerg dudes. The age of protoss is built upon the era of zerg complacency. Do better Zergs~!! Every time, we get new maps it's, "Which obvious strategy will the hive race fail to have anticipated this time". Let's end the protoss insurgence and slap those drug addled terrans back to moon landings. Zerg HWAITING 2019! | ||
Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
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oxKnu
1143 Posts
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bovienchien
Vietnam1152 Posts
My heart: Mong, Rush | ||
oEkY
Germany645 Posts
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GTR
51397 Posts
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razorsuKe
Canada2000 Posts
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GTR
51397 Posts
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Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
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Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
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Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
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oxKnu
1143 Posts
On July 02 2019 19:01 oxKnu wrote: Larva vs nOOB is a really nice matchup IMO. It's Bo1 so that sucks but it's interesting because I estimate nOOB as being on a close level to the top foreigner protoss (Bonyth) - probably better but close enough for me. nOOB has played in plenty of foreigner leagues showing that he is really good but not elite.I want to see how large the discrepancy is between him and Larva. Assuming this will be a macro game (which Larva should push for no matter what). Yeah, the actual game consolidated what I thought this would be like. | ||
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
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Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
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r33k
Italy3402 Posts
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Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
rush multi attacking was too much for him | ||
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
Poll: Recommend Larva vs nOOB? No (6) If you have time (4) Yes (1) 11 total votes Your vote: Recommend Larva vs nOOB? Poll: Recommend Rush Vs Mong? Yes (5) If you have time (5) No (0) 10 total votes Your vote: Recommend Rush Vs Mong? | ||
AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
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nojok
France15845 Posts
Kadenzie is saying interesting things but she needs to speak louder and put some emotions, it should get better when she's more comfortable I guess. | ||
Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
On July 02 2019 20:08 nojok wrote: Are the numbers of viewers of afreeca shown on TL accurate? It seems awfully low for it to be able to pay for the venue and all the staff. Kadenzie is saying interesting things but she needs to speak louder and put some emotions, it should get better when she's more comfortable I guess. yeah, i think she's slowly getting more comfortable and speaking more | ||
Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
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Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49886 Posts
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ggsimida
1141 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
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nojok
France15845 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
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Wonk
546 Posts
really liking the casting combo of artosis +cadenzie, it feels a bit more informative than usuaual and it's really nice to watch a ZvT with a cast from both sides | ||
nojok
France15845 Posts
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Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
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LaStScan
Korea (South)1289 Posts
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Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49886 Posts
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ggsimida
1141 Posts
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Wonk
546 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49886 Posts
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Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
noob has to improve a lot his PvZ | ||
nojok
France15845 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
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JoinTheRain
Bulgaria408 Posts
And the P, taking a game off Mong, nice performance, there is no shame to lose twice to Larva, I hope n00b stays around. As for Rush - what can one say - domination in both his wins, it must feel amazing for him when his efforts actually yield some results. A nice set of games, all in all. | ||
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
Rush looking really strong right now, though, GJ by him! He really has some momentum. Nice to see the Flash/Last dominated Terran scene to liven up a little with Sharp and Rush improving lately. | ||
neutralrobot
Australia1025 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia12958 Posts
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Wonk
546 Posts
On July 02 2019 21:34 neutralrobot wrote: I missed the beginning of the cast. Did they say where Tasteless is? Super cool to have Cadenzie on, but when they said he wouldn't be there for the first GSL group either, I got a little concerned. I think they said during the last ASL that he'd booked some family vacation or something similar. Anyway, good games, shame ajuk12/noob kinda fell apart there in the same way we saw with soma, but a really good cast. The TvZ especially was great. not sure whether it was just cadenzie's increased confidence casting or the production team but she seemed much clearer and more talkative, just compared to the KSL qualifiers. It's really nice to hear somebody give the counterplay from the zerg perspective in TvZ, which is definitely lacking in tastosis casts. hope to see this caster combo again. | ||
Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On July 02 2019 22:27 Wonk wrote: I think they said during the last ASL that he'd booked some family vacation or something similar. Anyway, good games, shame ajuk12/noob kinda fell apart there in the same way we saw with soma, but a really good cast. The TvZ especially was great. not sure whether it was just cadenzie's increased confidence casting or the production team but she seemed much clearer and more talkative, just compared to the KSL qualifiers. It's really nice to hear somebody give the counterplay from the zerg perspective in TvZ, which is definitely lacking in tastosis casts. hope to see this caster combo again. Well, Noob fell apart against Larva while Soma did so against Flash, there's a difference; I believed in him, but Rush and Larva brought the Liquibet home today. | ||
Highgamer
1399 Posts
Really enjoyed the chill casting of this one, too. I think they're a good combo (as long as Artosis doesn't mind the little extra effort he has to put in compared to when he's with other, more experienced casters). | ||
Wonk
546 Posts
On July 02 2019 22:46 Xain0n wrote: Well, Noob fell apart against Larva while Soma did so against Flash, there's a difference; I believed in him, but Rush and Larva brought the Liquibet home today. In my mind they're on about the same level. Soma's games vs. Flash were exponentially more crumbly due to the skill difference. Larva definitely didn't play his best today, but it still showed. | ||
Dante08
Singapore4121 Posts
Also great casting by Cadenzie! Really good knowledge and insight of the game. | ||
Jaeyun
United States202 Posts
The muta fail was compounded by the fact that it's hard to take a good 4th from that position and he was playing 3 gases all game. Great game by Rush though, I do hope he advances in the RO8. | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19207 Posts
On July 03 2019 00:30 Dante08 wrote: Larva played so weird in that ZvT against Rush while his ZvP looks amazing. I thought that playing against Flash would increase his powers but I think it messed him up a little haha. Also great casting by Cadenzie! Really good knowledge and insight of the game. Chiming in to say great job to Cadenzie too. My only comment would be to speak up a little bit more confidently. Because she is casting next to a heavily experienced caster like Artosis, the volume and projection level is very different The content being spoken was fine, just adding in some stronger inflections and tones into what is said would really make a difference. | ||
Nematocyst
United States164 Posts
BTW, was that Rapid in the giraffe suit? The first footage of the audience from behind, I was thinking: that has to be Rapid. | ||
Ideas
United States8075 Posts
Between today's games and the End of the World series Larva's ZvP is looking really good. But his ZvT just doesn't seem very flexible. I've said it before but I think that he's a far weaker player on non-standard maps where he can't do the standard "take an empty main base for the 3rd, guard it with 2 lurkers, expand down the ramp for the 4th". It's annoying as hell to take a 4th on Sylphid in ZvT, and Larva didn't really seem to have a great plan for getting one or doing much with his super fast 3rd base. | ||
LfunkGG
78 Posts
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sM.Zik
Canada2543 Posts
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Burled_Sapele
10 Posts
Glad to see Rush advance with solid games; not so sure about Larva in spite of some of the more poignant observations about his play (re: Jaeyun's post above). Am I mistaken in thinking that Soma and nOOB are the first two amateurs in ASL to win a game (both elimination matches, at that)? That would be noteworthy in itself and quite an achievement for both of them. | ||
Akio
Finland1838 Posts
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machinus
United States290 Posts
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LaStScan
Korea (South)1289 Posts
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LaStScan
Korea (South)1289 Posts
On July 03 2019 05:19 Burled_Sapele wrote: Enjoyable games (and casting) today; the games on Multiverse showed that there is quite the potential for unorthodox things to take place. Glad to see Rush advance with solid games; not so sure about Larva in spite of some of the more poignant observations about his play (re: Jaeyun's post above). Am I mistaken in thinking that Soma and nOOB are the first two amateurs in ASL to win a game (both elimination matches, at that)? That would be noteworthy in itself and quite an achievement for both of them. nOOB is expro from WeMadeFOX | ||
Turbovolver
Australia2384 Posts
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KamMoye
United States721 Posts
This works just fine in ZvP, where you can indirectly dictate gameflow. Not so in TvZ, where T has point on game flow and risk-reward begins to skew towards offensive disruption. Top Terran pros know Larva is too one-dimensional to threaten them. Ditto the best PvZers. In other words, Larva is one big execution test. He plays with just enough refinement to serve as a gatekeeper but lacks the nuance to serve as a serious tournament threat. +1 to Cadenzie/Artosis feedback. The patience with which you both casted was excellent. Cadenzie is still too quiet but she is a focused quiet, which helps the audience become immersed. Far far better than Rapid, that's for sure! | ||
RWLabs
Korea (South)273 Posts
Also @KamMoye is it necessary to talk down Rapid? | ||
sysen
26 Posts
But i guess if she keep improving, she can be a very great caster in the future. | ||
ggsimida
1141 Posts
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Motivate
2860 Posts
Cadenzie has really good game knowledge. She just mumbles way too much and at first I thought it was someone who spoke English as a second language. Probably a confidence thing that will improve with time. I certainly feel she contributes more game discussion than Tasteless, who just makes jokes with Artosis and constantly complains about every race besides Protoss. | ||
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
And Rush is definitely impressive online, plus he has had some pretty neat results lately. Winning the CMSL was no small feat, considering the competition. Action is a fairly decent ZvTer, Mini reached two consecutive offline finals and Soma has one of the best online ZvT records, particularly the best (I think) against Flash. This is not to say he's the favourite to win the tournament, but he's in good form. | ||
KamMoye
United States721 Posts
On July 03 2019 12:39 RWLabs wrote: Also @KamMoye is it necessary to talk down Rapid? Necessary? About as necessary as for you to respond to it. Do I stand by it? Absolutely. Feelings hurt? You'll get over it. | ||
Miragee
8470 Posts
Also +1 on the Cadenzie/Artosis comments, really enjoyed the cast! | ||
Chronopolis
Canada1484 Posts
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RWLabs
Korea (South)273 Posts
On July 03 2019 16:43 KamMoye wrote: Necessary? About as necessary as for you to respond to it. Do I stand by it? Absolutely. Feelings hurt? You'll get over it. My feelings aren't hurt. I just dislike the Brood War culture of crapping on people enthusiastic about the game because their skills aren't quite there yet. | ||
PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
Would have hoped for more from Mong after his KCM performances. Will there be no ASL in the autumn / winter? Or is it just that his military is not exactly at end of year but maybe Sept / Oct or something? | ||
Dante08
Singapore4121 Posts
On July 03 2019 03:25 Ideas wrote: The cast was great, Cadenzie is definitely improving. I love Tasteless but it'd be cool if she was subbed in a little more often during Zerg-heavy days or something haha. Between today's games and the End of the World series Larva's ZvP is looking really good. But his ZvT just doesn't seem very flexible. I've said it before but I think that he's a far weaker player on non-standard maps where he can't do the standard "take an empty main base for the 3rd, guard it with 2 lurkers, expand down the ramp for the 4th". It's annoying as hell to take a 4th on Sylphid in ZvT, and Larva didn't really seem to have a great plan for getting one or doing much with his super fast 3rd base. Yeah Larva seems to play better on standard maps where he can use his experience and mechanics to gain an edge but falls apart abit on less standard ones. I remember him playing amazingly during the mech switch period because he knew what the Terrans were going to do and just macro-ed like a boss. Hopefully he can put in more practice on ZvT, I would love to see him go deep in a tournament. | ||
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Liquid`Zephyr
United States996 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4121 Posts
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LfunkGG
78 Posts
rush played pretty soild. i always thought he had great mechanics and good understanding of game. he looks promising. i didn't expect a lot from mong, and it was a good experience for new toss guy noob. it was bad, im sure he can't do worse next time. | ||
KamMoye
United States721 Posts
On July 04 2019 04:45 RWLabs wrote: My feelings aren't hurt. I just dislike the Brood War culture of crapping on people enthusiastic about the game because their skills aren't quite there yet. What? I wasn't talking about Rapid's enthusiasm. What point are you trying to make? I'm one person. I'm not "Brood War culture." I have specific reasons for what I say, whether it's praise or criticism or whatever. If you'd like to hear my specific reasons, I'll be glad to share them. Otherwise, have a nice day. | ||
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GTR
51397 Posts
On July 05 2019 00:45 Dante08 wrote: Maybe Cadenzie can join the casting archon to form a trio? Like a supporting caster role or something, the Koreans usually have 3 casters as well. it's been constantly proven over time that it just doesn't work as well in english as it does in korean. producers try to make it work, and it simply doesn't. | ||
Martha1
3 Posts
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TornadoSteve
1000 Posts
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JoinTheRain
Bulgaria408 Posts
I would advice people to please refrain from criticizing her harshly or in immoderate words. She is the best we have right now, we should cherish her, we should praise her. Yes, sure, point some errors if you are better than her, this is acceptable and most welcome. But if you're just a whiny couch potato - do not do it, it does not become a man to act in this way. All in all - Cadenzie, you're doing great, keep it up! Your knowledge is unparalleled, your attitude is genuine, even your modesty and occasional reluctance to speak when unsure is charming. I'd much prefer frugality with words when one is uncertain rather than some oafish audacious loquacity. | ||
Szinkler
Hungary394 Posts
I know it's subjective, but she has a very "bad" voice and she doesn't articulate words. Whatever she says just irritates me/us. (I wouldn't write these if I was the only one with this opinion because I can be an exception, but I am not) She has a great knowledge of the game, much better than Tastless' that is a plus, but basically that is the only one. I would rather listen to Artosis or Rapid alone than to have her. I have nothing against her (I really respect her for what she achieved in SC!), but she is just not suited for casting. And I am fairly certain you can't correct the "faults" I mentioned in a short period of time because it's those kind of errors... speech "errors" ( i don't know the word). At this age it would take years to correct this. I'm not saying it's impossible. ((What you mention that she is pretty young, no experience, first time in front of camera etc, doesn't matter because it has nothing to do with her speech error, she has the same on stream and for sure in real life as well)) I wanted to say my piece because I am not alone with this opinion. I don't want to hurt her of anything but these are the facts. I have lot of "errors", faults as well, everyone does. If she tries the almost impossible road to correct hers, kudos to her and maybe in a couple of years it's going to be different. I am not going to reply to anyone regarding this here. (If you wish we can talk on discord.) To say something about Day 2: pretty bad games, overall quality of games were really low in my opinion. The TvT was decent, but the other games... Larva vs Rush, so many mistakes. | ||
Dante08
Singapore4121 Posts
On July 05 2019 05:03 GTR wrote: it's been constantly proven over time that it just doesn't work as well in english as it does in korean. producers try to make it work, and it simply doesn't. Interesting, why is that so? | ||
Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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JoinTheRain
Bulgaria408 Posts
On July 05 2019 22:22 Alpha-NP- wrote: How good is she in comparison to players like Bonyth or Eonzerg? I would say skill-wise she is at about their level or slightly worse in terms of execution but nothing absurd like A ICCUP vs C+ ICCUP. There was some KCM where she played and won vs Bonyth (I hope I am not utterly wrong about this one and if I am, please correct me) and yes, it is just one game yet the point is she is comfortable playing against the best of foreign BW players and she is not getting smashed. | ||
Lorch
Germany3672 Posts
On July 05 2019 05:03 GTR wrote: it's been constantly proven over time that it just doesn't work as well in english as it does in korean. producers try to make it work, and it simply doesn't. "constantly" I can remember like 3 times in the last 10 years that it was actually tried, and that is across BW and SC2 (outside of fun events like Homestory Cup or the Remastered Launch Party). I personaly always enjoyed 3 way casts whenever they were tried, it would obviously take some getting used to. I think it might as well be worth trying it for a full season of something. I don't think the occasional series that it was tried on was enough of an indicator. Why not try it for an entire ASL or KSL season so we get a definitive answer on whether it can work? | ||
Ideas
United States8075 Posts
On July 05 2019 23:49 Lorch wrote: "constantly" I can remember like 3 times in the last 10 years that it was actually tried, and that is across BW and SC2 (outside of fun events like Homestory Cup or the Remastered Launch Party). I personaly always enjoyed 3 way casts whenever they were tried, it would obviously take some getting used to. I think it might as well be worth trying it for a full season of something. I don't think the occasional series that it was tried on was enough of an indicator. Why not try it for an entire ASL or KSL season so we get a definitive answer on whether it can work? I'm guessing it's more if a money thing than a format thing. Hell I still find it crazy that ASL/KSL do an English cast at all when they give it away FOR FREE and none of the ads are in English or targeted towards non-Koreans at all. A 3rd caster makes the whole thing 50% more expensive. | ||
Cryoc
Germany909 Posts
On July 05 2019 23:32 JoinTheRain wrote: I would say skill-wise she is at about their level or slightly worse in terms of execution but nothing absurd like A ICCUP vs C+ ICCUP. There was some KCM where she played and won vs Bonyth (I hope I am not utterly wrong about this one and if I am, please correct me) and yes, it is just one game yet the point is she is comfortable playing against the best of foreign BW players and she is not getting smashed. She won vs Dewalt with a Hydra bust. Using that to estimate her skill level close to Dewalt is very bold. Regarding her speech, I think it is fine besides being quieter than Artosis. And I take that flaw any time considering the much better strategic inside of the commentary. | ||
Nematocyst
United States164 Posts
On July 05 2019 22:22 Alpha-NP- wrote: How good is she in comparison to the old iccup rankings and compared to players like Bonyth or Eonzerg? I know you didn't mention this to say she shouldn't cast or anything. But I want to give my opinion on why I like her as a caster. Faults aside, she's got fantastic insight on Korean BW. Her experience in that area is incredible, and to allow us peons to listen to her thoughts on it is helpful towards any cast. Either she wants to be a full time caster or she doesn't, but I welcome her presence because she provides first hand knowledge of playing on teams and just knowing most of the top ex-pros. Being good in tournament setting is a small piece of the puzzle. Artosis seldom fares well, but as a caster, his perspective is truly second to none among English speaking casters. | ||
KrsNinja
Norway24 Posts
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Puosu
6984 Posts
On July 05 2019 20:00 Szinkler wrote: I didn't want to say anything about Cadenzie's casting here but this last comment made me. Not because of what JoinTheRain wrote (okay, partly), but it was not the first comment "praising her"/"for her" and I absolutely disagree with that and think have to say the other side's piece. And I know a lot of people personally who has the same opinion as me. I know it's subjective, but she has a very "bad" voice and she doesn't articulate words. Whatever she says just irritates me/us. (I wouldn't write these if I was the only one with this opinion because I can be an exception, but I am not) She has a great knowledge of the game, much better than Tastless' that is a plus, but basically that is the only one. I would rather listen to Artosis or Rapid alone than to have her. I have nothing against her (I really respect her for what she achieved in SC!), but she is just not suited for casting. And I am fairly certain you can't correct the "faults" I mentioned in a short period of time because it's those kind of errors... speech "errors" ( i don't know the word). At this age it would take years to correct this. I'm not saying it's impossible. ((What you mention that she is pretty young, no experience, first time in front of camera etc, doesn't matter because it has nothing to do with her speech error, she has the same on stream and for sure in real life as well)) I wanted to say my piece because I am not alone with this opinion. I don't want to hurt her of anything but these are the facts. I have lot of "errors", faults as well, everyone does. If she tries the almost impossible road to correct hers, kudos to her and maybe in a couple of years it's going to be different. I am not going to reply to anyone regarding this here. (If you wish we can talk on discord.) To say something about Day 2: pretty bad games, overall quality of games were really low in my opinion. The TvT was decent, but the other games... Larva vs Rush, so many mistakes. cool, non-american accent is a "speech error" | ||
KamMoye
United States721 Posts
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