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I only see the hotkey thing as something important in all the accusing, and still not probatory.
I must admit that if this was on another circumstances, and involving a less important player(for the TL.net community) we probably would have already tied the guy to the tl.net horse and gave him a nice floor ride to peel his ass.
Now, I, as many people here are willing to believe this could be just a big mistake in the accusation, so kosiro might be innocent and he can tear it for us on upcoming games. And thats why im really looking forward the decision made about this.
If they say kosiro is guilty, we can then choose his substitute. Theres some nice asskicking zergs out there too. Maybe we can bring back to life JessicA~ aka Teh Macro. We might not win the whole thing, but for sure we will have some fun.
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Korea (South)1740 Posts
On September 24 2006 16:22 Patriot.dlk wrote:
[removed quote within quote]
What's the proof of him being drunk? The story goes, the pcbang computer was bad and that's why he played like a mofo.. I didn't read a word about him being drunk from the statement in this thread. Seriously him being totally drunk does not make sense to me, seing how "the industry is professionalized (they are, after all, representing corporations now) and players are under the microscope more than ever before."
he was drunk the moment i arrived in the channel, apologizing for his condition. he repeatedly said he was sorry for this (i believe him still that he was sorry).
him being totally drunk makes complete sense in a korean context. after pantech's big win, the corporate sponsors apparently took some members of the team out (some members, i.e. firefist, probably stayed at hq). kosiro told me that an important official from P&C were giving him and the other players shots, which in korean society you just don't refuse. so i emphathize with his situation-- he very well may have been wanting to play and do well in this tourney, but could not avoid getting hammered. anyone who has worked in korea knows exactly what i'm talking about.
in fact, i do think he wasn't just blowing off this tourney-- he was put in an awkward position, went through the trouble of going to a pc room, and went through the trouble of finding someone else to play for him.
but that doesn't excuse getting someone else to play for him (taking a forfeit loss, or just losing horribly 2:0 while drunk-- something people would understand and even respect, and perhaps would have added at least entertainment value to this tourney!), and certainly doesn't excuse this latest cover up attempt.
i really really hope i end up eating my words later. but i doubt it.
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ask any good player if they switch their hotkeys randomly like that early game in the same matchup on same maps you play regularly.
It just doesnt add up honestly --v
Unles sof course you have replays of him playign for sure and he does the same thing as he does in game 3 from time to time(some people may do this just because they are bored or whatever, but its highly unlikely progamers switch hotkeys like that with the amount of technical practice they have)
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is awesome32274 Posts
On September 24 2006 17:13 RamenStyle wrote:
If they say kosiro is guilty, we can then choose his substitute. Theres some nice asskicking zergs out there too. Maybe we can bring back to life JessicA~ aka Teh Macro. We might not win the whole thing, but for sure we will have some fun.
HAHAHAHAH
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i only think that because kosiro killed the most expensive player on the sandlot, think it must be cheat. Bloody jealous haha
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I have done a "hotkey selection checked" version of the 4 replays, as per request.
game 1 vs draco (thought to be kosiro):
game 3 vs draco (thought to be firefist):
random game 1 (by firefist):
random game 2 (by firefist):
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i just woke up, saw the thread and am now looking through all the firefist replays i have, however out of the 13 or so I see, from hotkeying along i see about three distinctive patterns and apms. So pretty much right now i'm as confused as you guys are, will download more from yg and compare. In the meanwhile does anyone have an updated roster of pantech
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you mean there are varying patterns in the firefirst reps you have?
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Compared all the Kosiro replays, from the ones in Kouros[fou] replay pack from awhile ago to the 2 games uploaded on jopd a few days ago. Kosiro ALWAYS, has 1 3 0, then 4 9 and maybe a 1. That pattern is consistent in every replay of Kosiro for every matchup. 3rd game vs draco the hotkeys at the start are 123 111, from that pretty sure it wasn't Kosiro, however i'm not sure if that was firefist either. And about players changing hotkeys depending on strat/rush? I disagree, the first 5 seconds of a game are instincts. Unless you consciously manipulate it and try to be someone else you will not just suddenly change your starting hotkeys because it doesn't do anything. That's especially true for zerg because there's no "natural" order to hotkey your hatches/ovies/drones at the beginning. For toss I know most of y'all do 0 or 0/9 nexus, then 1 probe, 3 gate or something like that. And for terran, 3 cc 1 scv is pretty common. For zerg it really differs from player to player. I'm convinced game 3 wasn't Kosiro.
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make rep pack of firefist plz
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well i think the hotkey usage is good enough proof as well... it was also not the time to test some alternate hotkeys or something cause you know you will be slower with them unless you are very used to it... i think its obvious it wasnt him playing just from all things i saw in this topic, not much added value but midian and roman are right 
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why doesnt someone just ask kosiro to explain the hotkey thing
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I will admit it doesnt look good for Kosiro. HOWEVER, the way I feel about a cheating situation, is that untill the player is proven quilty beyond a resonable doubt, he shouldnt be condemed. From personal experience, I was banned from TLT for 'hacking' the wgtour website. Those who know me simply laughed out loud when they found this out, as I am propably one of the least computer savy people out there. Yet I was banned for the 3/4 of TLT, completely runing my chances to compete with most of the top gamers in the tourney, and wasting my 10$. I still have no idea WHY they thought it was me, but I do know it realy sucks to be blamed for something you did not do.
Not to mention the hours I put in every day trying to talk with wgtour admins. God that was a horrible experience.
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you guys can't be this dumb. they're obviously two different people, you don't change the way you select hotkeys in an hour, specially when playing as vigorously as koreans in a professional team.
kosiro was caught in a lie, and fisheye is... fisheye. sad that THIS team has to go through this unnecessary trouble. 
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On September 24 2006 18:06 Zeto wrote:
you guys can't be this dumb. they're obviously two different people, you don't change the way you select hotkeys in an hour, specially when playing as vigorously as koreans in a professional team.
I assume in both games, he was selecting his hotkeys using his left hand's fingers. I don't think we can really know though; it's just speculation. But I don't see what that has to do with anything.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On September 24 2006 18:08 Wasabi wrote:
-_-
first of all, i read all of the replies before posting this. -.-
wtf. I think an apology is enough for me. if kosiro did practice on maps he'll never play in for the rest of his progaming career because korean leagues won't use foreigner maps, i'd say he should be given another chance.
the evidence against him is overwhelming, and thanks to the analyzers, he has been "busted." however from what uhjoo said, and that drinking invitation, it is inevitable for him to not get drunk. If that was the case, I'm surprised that HE EVEN FOUND A WAY TO PLAY REGARDLESS OF HIS CONDITION.
yes, i'm also changing my stance on the issue, from "kosiro is stupid" to "kosiro has no choice about being drunk, and should be forgiven and deserves another chance." but i don't think those people at blizzard who didn't treat the competition in a professional way (from picking the logos to the laziness showed by them according to mani) would allow him to play again.
the match is over, TL lost, only FA won a matech. the sandlot is far from over. assuming if kosiro himself were to play without any shadow of doubt from this point on, nobody would care about this issue anymore except from those retarded, way too nostalgic people in the next few months.
I sort of agree, but somehow him saying it was him.. Hm, he made matters worse if it really was n't.
Honestly, I understand why he did all this and I think he did it with good intentions, and because I actually would want him on my team in terms of skill (+ come on, drunken mistakes are easier forgiven).. blah.
Such a difficult issue
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/2783/game1mv1.png)
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