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Criticism needs to be given privately in order for it to be constructive and friendly..? yeah, I don't think so.
I don't understand the other part of your criticism as well. Were we supposed to fight someone who flamed you in the thread? That was our job as a community? If you're good with people as you say, you should know the only way to end any flamewar is to completely ignore any flame in it and act friendly. If you're good with people, you shouldn't have any 'enemies' in the first place. If you're good with people, you know people can act stupid and will join on any witch hunt, no matter the reason, and you don't get upset about it. It is not personal. That's just what people do and there is actually some sense to it.
If you want to be a great organizer, you need to be good with people. You need to see past the flames and pick up on what people are actually saying and then help change their opinion. You couldn't achieve that with the PR. Also, you don't want to be arguing around with the same people in different threads creating or feeding useless drama that undermines your credibility, as well as theirs. And no, it does not matter who's the 'winner' in a flamewar. You're all losers, always. Sadly, in this case, BW loses with you. Well, good luck with the remaining work.
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On October 22 2012 12:55 Stratos wrote:
Criticism needs to be given privately in order for it to be constructive and friendly..? yeah, I don't think so.
I don't understand the other part of your criticism as well. Were we supposed to fight someone who flamed you in the thread? That was our job as a community? If you're good with people as you say, you should know the only way to end any flamewar is to completely ignore any flame in it and act friendly. If you're good with people, you shouldn't have any 'enemies' in the first place. If you're good with people, you know people can act stupid and will join on any witch hunt, no matter the reason, and you don't get upset about it. It is not personal. That's just what people do and there is actually some sense to it.
If you want to be a great organizer, you need to be good with people. You need to see past the flames and pick up on what people are actually saying and then help change their opinion. You couldn't achieve that with the PR. Also, you don't want to be arguing around with the same people in different threads creating or feeding useless drama that undermines your credibility, as well as theirs. And no, it does not matter who's the 'winner' in a flamewar. You're all losers, always. Sadly, in this case, BW loses with you. Well, good luck with the remaining work.
Thanks. Your feedback? is appreciated.
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On October 22 2012 08:02 Eywa- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 02:44 thezanursic wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 21 2012 16:19 Stratos wrote:Some thoughts from a discussion with Dollar. Compared to what money you want to invest into this, the promotion of this is ridiculously bad. One ugly picture and a thread full of words and a shitton of FAQ nobody will possibly read. You say you contacted some people (casters?) to help you promote this thing, none of them replied. Wonder why? There's a complex coverage on TL but not once has this been mentioned elsewhere outside this thread. Wonder why? A lot of people did not have confidence in this at first and there's a reason. If there is something great to come, it should be presented that way. One should be able to tell that the people behind it are serious. How come this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=375617 looks some 2000% more professional than this thread? I get it, it's hard to get help from volunteers because not many people had faith in this in the first place = and we're in an endless circle. In my opinion, the easy solution here is to take a small part of the prizepool and just invest it into promotion. Hire someone to make a SIMPLE website, graphics for the thread, some hype vid even, where the organization explains what's going to happen and why. It doesn't have to be top quality, it just has to be something. I don't know if anything is under construction, but if not, it really needs to happen. Asap. Coupled with the uneasy sign-up process (45 replays, really?), this is hurting the event in so many ways. If the people behind this don't know what needs to be done in terms of PR in the first place, just hire someone to do it all. I'm sure there's plenty of people from the sc2 scene who would be happy to take the opportunity. Use them. Once you get a quality hype going, people will spread the word and more people will join, volunteers will show up and it can all happen. As it is, people are hesitating to even mention the event because they don't want to be the ones to promote a scam or something that's just not going to happen. Splitting the tournament into parts and making Moscow happen would be a good step in removing these doubts. But if you want to make it pure BW, you want to make sure Moscow doesn't fail in the first place. Use your money wisely. What seems a waste might actually be crucial for this to happen. edit: Just read signing up ends november 3rd.. well I guess that makes promotion for Moscow kinda useless. Focus on the next one then I guess :< Make sure there's good footage to use from the event in Moscow. This. I actually PM'd Eywa to ask if SC2 personalities that were involved with BW and were invested would be interesting in being a part of this event, but Eywa didn't replay. I would really like to see this event be a success, but I'm afraid that without the help of people like maybe Day9, Artosis, Tastless (The list goes on) to promote the event in the SC2 community we just can't. Getting just a couple of these people on board would insure a successful event. I know that some people feel like they ''sold out'' , but did they? They stuck with Brood War for many many years. They were invested so much it might be in the past, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't support this. This would be the biggest LAN event in the history of foreign Brood war and these SOME of these guys would surely participate to keep their memory of BW alive or maybe something more! I apologize for the lack of a reply, I had every intention of replying to it and it is that I have already tried to contact countless figures from SC2, it doesn't work. None of the have interest and/or can't work for Brood War atm for whatever reason. I've tried for many different events.
Ohh that makes me kind of sad : /
Maybe you could get one of the people in the BW community who had past experience with event organization to try to contact people again. It didn't work, but we shouldn't just throw the gun into the bush because I think we all understand that the getting a prominent community figure behind this event would increase the likelyhood of making this a successful event by a very large margin.
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On October 22 2012 12:03 Eywa- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 09:58 dRaW wrote:On October 22 2012 08:18 Eywa- wrote:On October 22 2012 02:34 Stratos wrote:We were discussing the event with Dollar, because we wanted to make it a success in Prague. We thought we found a flaw in the overall design and considered it best to present it to you. This flaw was most certainly holding back people from helping or even paying attention to the event. Why care if it's most likely not going to happen anyway? Should I share with my friends if I don't even know? Should I link people to the thread that looks precisely as a really bad scam would look like? Should I invest my time to make it better if I don't have any guarantee that it's real?Personally I didn't even ask myself the last question because I don't consider my editing skills good enough to appropriately present the event the way it should be presented. And yes, if it's an event with that prizepool, it should be well presented. Whether this flaw worked subconsciously or otherwise, the effect is clear enough. The only way to prove that it's all real was to either get a large enough group of people to work on it together or to show that you have the money by investing some of it beforehand. That's what all the events out there do, and it's for a reason. It won't happen just by saying: Hi folks, we worked really hard, have an unreal amount of money, please help us make this happen (without the please). Actually there is nothing about seeking for help or volunteers in the OP, unless it's hidden in the FAQ. If you can't work with people, which seems to be the case here (and should not be taken as an insult, but just an observation), you've got to do the latter or leave it to someone more capable in this regard. If you come up with something and say you're going to make it happen, then you either make it happen or lose credibility. At this point, this is something only you can fix. You cannot blame the people for not trusting you. But more importantly, you cannot blame anyone for not donating their time, even if they did trust you. We didn't come up with this event, you did. If you knew you couldn't make it happen on your own, you could've at least said so. What was actually written in the original thread was: "Ladies and Gentlemen, the Euro 2013 Winter games have arrived. The stage is set, all that remains are the players and fans. This winter, we will be providing you with non-stop Starcraft: Brood War action as we tour the globe seeking out each Nation's finest Starcraft players. This tournament is the first of it's kind since World Cyber Games itself. Also, boasting the second highest recorded prize in foreign Brood War history, it is sure to be a spectacle of special magnificence."This is not the end of the world though. Moscow can by a trial to see if you can actually make the event run smoothly. If you can, the championship will hopefully regain at least some of the needed credibility. Make sure the event in Moscow is a fucking blast and I'm sure more people will be interested in helping and playing in the next one. + Show Spoiler [more personal appeal] +Note - I'm not saying you're a bad person if this whole thing doesn't turn out to be as good as was expected or even if it doesn't happen at all, obviously if your intentions were such as you claim them to be, you're actually an awesome guy. Nonetheless, if you come up with something awesome and present it as a ready project but then can't make it properly happen, you will lose your credibility - if there was any to begin with (I don't really know you so I can't judge). Blaming others now for not stepping up, regardless of the reasons, or saying you don't care will work too. As the organizer, it is your job to make this as best as possible given the circumstances. I've done my share of organizing shit for others in the past so I know it can will be rough. But if you can't deal with it, then please do consider finding someone else to do it. Pay them using some of the money from the prizepool if you must. I'm sure people will understand. If someone recognizes a flaw and you agree that it is in fact a flaw, you should try to fix it. Or you can give up, that is your call to make. Lastly, to be perfectly clear, the flaws in the presentation of this tournament are nowhere near as important as the organizer saying he doesn't care. I hope you can somehow get over this criticism and accept it the way it is meant. All I'm saying is that there are things you need to improve if you want the tournament to work better. Since you're the organizer, this is basically the same thing as if I was pointing out flaws on your children. Everyone hates that. Also anyone who ever made/produced/painted/written/organized anything and presented to others for free was disappointed or even angry when others disapproved. I'm also slightly annoyed at you saying I didn't do or intend to do anything for this event - as if I wasn't ever doing anything productive for the scene, you mofo! (  ). This feeling is only natural, but as an organizer you need to get over it. You can disagree with what I wrote about the PR and its importance and that's fine, it's your tournament. But if you're going to get angry at me and the community instead for not doing anything about it, then you failed as an organizer, because the organizer is supposed to fix the problems. That is the position you put yourself in. I hope you can still fix this. Or let someone else do it. Both options seem better than giving up because you believe a couple of people here don't like you or don't trust you enough etc. Sorry for the long post but since this is something that could play a huge role for BW in the future, I do believe it is worth taking some time and thinking it through. Please do. It would be a tragedy to let this die just because of a few simple errors and a misunderstanding and giving up instead of facing these. Take a couple of hours or even days and see if you can find some inner spirit and get over the couple of people disliking you or whatever is the underlying issue here. You know I don't know you, I haven't really heard anything about you either and even if I did I wouldn't care unless I actually got to know you myself, so none of the above or my original post was meant to attack your persona in any way. I hope that's clear. I do have a tendency to talk bluntly about the things I don't consider to be flawless, so sorry about that. Since we're about giving criticism, I'll give you a couple then comment on your criticism for me. 1) Have you seen the post history in both threads? The amount of flame to criticism ratio is quite off balance. It's true that this is from a certain few, which I don't get mad at because I know they either are just trolls with nothing better to do or they actually somehow don't understand anything. In either case, I can get by just by considering their situation. However, that the community backs up flamers and lists them as valid criticism is unbelievable. Given that there's a noticeable distinction between posts from people who hate me and the rest (gecko, nina, messer, 2pac)... I don't know how you guys don't pick up on this and discourage. 2) This point also takes into consideration the first. In order to provide constructive criticism, it has to be given privately, as soon as you open it up to a public discussion thread it's no longer a friendly conversation because of how people build off of it. Otherwise I agree with a lot of your criticism, the event is not developed because I stopped doing stuff for Brood War mainly because of Gambit's Cup. As far as working with people, the only thing that came up was translators which can be found anywhere and everywhere. It's not what the event needs right now (so I apologize if it comes across as I can't work with people --- Which also should obviously not be the case given that I've worked plenty with Game, nOoNe and a few others). On another note, I will start up full swing again for Gambit's Cup Round 2 and for these events to make them the best they possibly can be. However, I won't be doing anything for Brood War afterwards The guy gives you a page of ways to improve it, and then he offers to help if you're interested. You guys should just already get this going instead of arguing about the same thing of getting this event going more smoothly since this is the most money for a foreign BW event. On another note, I will start up full swing again for Gambit's Cup Round 2 and for these events to make them the best they possibly can be.I'm pretty confident you just don't read english.
I'm very happy about that, but I just feel like this tournament is literally on in a life time opportunity at least for foreign BW that is and it won't come again and you obviously worked really hard to make this happen and I just don't want it to slip through our fingers.
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Russian Federation372 Posts
Do NOT post advices or ideas, noone needs them. If you want to help - Do it.
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On October 22 2012 23:06 iFU.spx wrote:
Do NOT post advice or ideas, no one needs them. If you want to help - Do it.
Don't be stupid.
I can't - Do it. I literally can't and if I would it would probably end up subpar
+ Show Spoiler +THIS IS WHY WE HAVE PEOPLE LIKE EYWA. Who are capable of pulling this off, but his organization isn't there yet and I personally think he needs to get another community organizer that can help him (Primarly getting the word out by any means necessary)
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Russian Federation484 Posts
If you think you can help, but do not know how - you can just send me money, it will help me!
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If criticism is given in public, it drags other people's opinion which are not always constructive. Simply, it may be begin of 'witch hunt' which doesn't cause any improvement.
On October 22 2012 23:06 iFU.spx wrote:
Do NOT post advices or ideas, noone needs them. If you want to help - Do it. You're wrong.
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Dont leave BW just because some people in the community are fucking idiots man..
this game doesnt deserve it..
what it deserves is exactly these kind of events
I REALLY REALLY hope that this is gonna work out fucking amazing !
go go go !!!
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maybe let Game organize this ?
Im being serious..
he would just make it fucking amazingly epic regardless of people giving him shit or trashtalk..
this way we will have an amazing event and all that you would have to do is to donate the money.. and you would still receive mad props for it by everyone 
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Let me just say right now that I really hope this event succeeds. I may have been skeptical about the prize-pool at first (I was like "Who has that kind of money laying around?") but even when some people I know said they thought the prize was fake, I even told them that I hoped that it wasn't fake. I honestly hope that your effort here succeeds, and even though I may have come off as antagonistic before, I apologize. I probably won't be able to come close to qualifying, and won't be able to afford a trip to Europe anytime in the foreseeable future, it's not about me.
Now, this may come as a surprise, but after some time of reflection, I would much rather just put myself out there and take a step towards reconciliation with you. After all, it's a game we both really love playing, and there is such a great community that comes with it, and I have no intention of skirmishing with you on the forums or anywhere again in the future. That's not the way I want to be, and I hope that it's not too late to make peace with you, Eywa-. That being said, forget about the grudge, I don't want it anymore or want to spend another ounce of energy on my own unnecessary negativity.
I sincerely believe that if you focus on the organization of this LAN tour, it will be a big success. Best of luck to you!
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On October 23 2012 14:54 ninazerg wrote:
Let me just say right now that I really hope this event succeeds. I may have been skeptical about the prize-pool at first (I was like "Who has that kind of money laying around?") but even when some people I know said they thought the prize was fake, I even told them that I hoped that it wasn't fake. I honestly hope that your effort here succeeds, and even though I may have come off as antagonistic before, I apologize. I probably won't be able to come close to qualifying, and won't be able to afford a trip to Europe anytime in the foreseeable future, it's not about me.
Now, this may come as a surprise, but after some time of reflection, I would much rather just put myself out there and take a step towards reconciliation with you. After all, it's a game we both really love playing, and there is such a great community that comes with it, and I have no intention of skirmishing with you on the forums or anywhere again in the future. That's not the way I want to be, and I hope that it's not too late to make peace with you, Eywa-. That being said, forget about the grudge, I don't want it anymore or want to spend another ounce of energy on my own unnecessary negativity.
I sincerely believe that if you focus on the organization of this LAN tour, it will be a big success. Best of luck to you!
thats the spirit !!!!!!!
we all should just read this post, chill the fuck out, and work together
for BROOD WAR !!!
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so.. who brainwashed nina?
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Russian Players !!!
maybe join in ?
its a big BW LAN played in YOUR country lol..
and only 2 russians registered T_T
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Russian Federation372 Posts
go to reps.ru, sc2tv.ru, goodgame.ru and promote
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On October 23 2012 17:49 iFU.spx wrote:
go to reps.ru, sc2tv.ru, goodgame.ru and promote
me ?
I promote this on polish community site
its your job to promote it on the russian sites because it is a LAN in your country with huge prizepool..
I thought that Russian BW community is quite big still and want to support the game..
guess I was wrong
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United Kingdom1704 Posts
On October 23 2012 18:10 Sinedd wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 17:49 iFU.spx wrote:
go to reps.ru, sc2tv.ru, goodgame.ru and promote me ? I promote this on polish community site its your job to promote it on the russian sites because it is a LAN in your country with huge prizepool.. I thought that Russian BW community is quite big still and want to support the game.. guess I was wrong
It's a good point, we need to have people from these websites really pushing the tourney to their own communities.
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On October 23 2012 14:54 ninazerg wrote:
Let me just say right now that I really hope this event succeeds. I may have been skeptical about the prize-pool at first (I was like "Who has that kind of money laying around?") but even when some people I know said they thought the prize was fake, I even told them that I hoped that it wasn't fake. I honestly hope that your effort here succeeds, and even though I may have come off as antagonistic before, I apologize. I probably won't be able to come close to qualifying, and won't be able to afford a trip to Europe anytime in the foreseeable future, it's not about me.
Now, this may come as a surprise, but after some time of reflection, I would much rather just put myself out there and take a step towards reconciliation with you. After all, it's a game we both really love playing, and there is such a great community that comes with it, and I have no intention of skirmishing with you on the forums or anywhere again in the future. That's not the way I want to be, and I hope that it's not too late to make peace with you, Eywa-. That being said, forget about the grudge, I don't want it anymore or want to spend another ounce of energy on my own unnecessary negativity.
I sincerely believe that if you focus on the organization of this LAN tour, it will be a big success. Best of luck to you!
I agree entirely.
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If you think you can help, but do not know how - you can just send me money, it will help me!
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For everyone who is wondering how they can help, I will be releasing another thread to explain different ways which all come back to help us, help brood war. This thread should be released along with the tournament tracking thread and the website. Both on which you'll be able to find all of the fun stuff which want to know.
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EPT
