PLEASE READ FAQ BEFORE POSTING Don't post again about the same topic unless it's been over 72 hours since your post with no reply.
Hello ladies and gentlemen, this is not an announcement thread, but rather a re-announcement. This thread clears up a lot of the issues that we were having with Euro 2013 from both a credibility and fan base perspective and an organizational perspective. With the changes that have been made, I expect that the event will run much smoother and higher quality than what we previously could have expected. Of course, the event will not change all the time... This is a onetime toss up given the, for lack of a better word, lack of organization which was put in previously. I am of course learning and there are mistakes to be expected given I’ve never ran something like this before, however, I think many of you will be quite pleased with the changes for enhanced quality and quantity.
The way this thread will be designed is with an initial overview of the whole event down to every single possible detail followed by a list of changes which were made with an explanation and/or reference as to why they were changed.
- European LAN Championships –
European Winter LAN Championship Location: Moscow Date: February 22-24 Seats: 7 + Online Bracket Casters for online event: Casters Live on Location: EleGanT, TBD Referee online event: Daemonarchy Referee Live on Location: Plumbum Location: TBA (3 weeks time) Prize Pool: $3600 Other Prizes: Free Ticket to Grand Finals, Various seeds for Prague event Organization: Eywa-
The European Winter event will be the first of five offline tournaments which will see one champion crowned as the best player in the foreign scene. The next will be in Prague, at the same time as the originally announce date, the third in Berlin (summer) and the fourth in Stockholm (fall). The grand finals have a location which is still to be announced. I would suggest however that people focus more on this tournament, given that other tournaments will be announced at a later time, there is no point in arguing about them just yet.
Online Qualifier Europe Country and/or Relative Area Qualification bracket (Nov 10 - Dec 15) Round of 56 (Group stage) – 1 moves on per group (Jan 12 - Jan 19) Round of 14 – Single Elimination (Jan 26 + Feb 2nd)
How To Register Sent an e-mail to: Euro2013Player@gmail.com (deadline: November 3rd) Include the following:
Replay Pack, 15 each Match Up IP Address Full Name Most Known ID List of ALL smurf accounts and former IDs Played Race Nationality
Live event: Players must provide 2 pieces of photo ID before they may enter the tournament room.
FAQ Q: Why Moscow? A: Russia is a good starting point given the already established LAN organization which resides there.
Q: Why is it split into many events? A: Simply put, having a climbing prize pool is more stable and presents a more credible way of doing things.
Q: Why is there no Nation Wars? A: Reduction in size of the event means there is no way to send Nation War teams.
Q: Where will it be? A: Likely at the Radisson business hotel, but is subject to change. Official booking within the month.
Q: How will America's winner make it to the LAN if they're playing their Qualifier the week of? A: They aren't, the wild card slot will play it's matches via Fish Server.
Q: Does this mean American players have no chance of being sent to Europe? A: No... The plan is to send them to the bigger LANs.
Q: What are the prize pools for future LANS? A: May vary pending on additional incoming sponsorships.
Q: What happened to the money original Euro thread boasted? A: It's still there (Grand Finals).
Q: Where is the money from the Moscow LAN coming from then? A: + Show Spoiler +
Sponsored entirely by Eywa-
Q: What if I can't find the location? A: Someone will pick you up at the airport.
Q: Are players trips still covered by the league? A: Yes, to ALL five LANs
Q: How can it be watched? A: There will be a live stream and a seating area at the event itself to accommodate ~50 people.
Q: Are Koreans allowed? A: Absolutely not.
Q: Will Koreans be allowed to any events in this series? A: No official stance as of yet.
Q: Relative Area means Russia and surrounding european neighbour countries? A: Applies to countries with few sign ups (but in concept, yes... Just not for Russia due to player pool).
Q: How many people will play the "offline" lan? A: Seven
Q: What exactly does 7 + Online Bracket mean? A: It means I don't want to fragment the community too much in the process, the online bracket corresponds to America. Players from there will be able to participate even if not in person. 1 slot will be reserved for them (out of the 8).
Q: If i end up in a group with sziky, dewalt and napoleon, i better hope i practiced hard? A: Technically speaking, very unlikely... But we've seen FlaSh/Jaedong/Bisu/Sea before... So I mean, at least all foreigners can be overcome with enough practice (they're not as close to a peak).
Q: What about the maps? A: New maps by Rose.Of.Dream if possible, if not relatively "New" Proleague Maps
Q: Is it not better to host an American LAN? A: While a segregated community can be good in some cases in terms of viewership given that an entirely different play style can be seen from one community to the next, it is not seen as advantageous in the case of Brood War given the low volume of players. It's unfortunate that we don't have the means to bring them to smaller LANs, but it's still fair for them to play. Note though, that these players have to be lag free at their end.
Q: What are your estimates on cost for: Q: Plane tickets for all qualified players/organizers A: Grand total travel cost may come out to ~ 3500
Q: Renting a revenue A: Venue for two and a half days probably ~ 3000
Q: Setting up a stage A: PC rentals, broadcast equipment ~ 2000
Q: Hiring people to set up a stage / computers / network access A: Included in venue rental (It'll be at a hotel's Ballroom)
Q: Accommodation for all players/organizers A: Including all hotel rooms ~ 2500
Q: Everything else that I might've missed A: Food, misc expenses ~ 1500
Q: Why are there '7' people playing offline? Why not 8? A: There is an online Wild Card slot.
Q: So there will be online qualifiers for every single event ? A: Yes, there will be some seeding, however, most of the qualifying will be online.
Q: How will seeding work? A: 1st place gives an automatic seed into both the next LAN and the Grand Finals. Other placements at the LAN event will gain seeding in the qualifiers for the next LAN.
Q: are the qualify players been flown over? A: Plane/bus/train/car... Really will depend on each player individually, but yes.
Q: If I don't qualify, can I still pay my own way to go there? A: There will be a system which allows you to do this, however, it has not yet been announced and it will be very selective upon skill.
Q: If a buddy wants to come with me, can he stay in my room as well? A: You'll be sharing a room with another player, they're 2 beds... So there are two options, either your roomate agrees or you pay ~$85 per night to have a separate room with your friend rather than another player.
Q: How can I book tickets for Prague and Berlin? A: You can book them any time by contacting myself, like I said in the previous thread. Donations are requested, but not required. Basically, if we get 1000 people who arbitrarily say they're going to be there, we might reserve 500 seats. However, if we get 750 people who demonstrate additional interest, there will be at least 750 seats. (Proof of booking room/trip is also good enough to guarantee)
Q: It says in the thread before the lan in Prague will be on the 14th of April, could we have more info? A: April 12-14, 3 days.
Q: When will the one in Berlin be? A: August 7-11
Q: Who is entitled to enter for the online wild card slot? A: Absolutely lag free North and South Americans.
Q: Why not 2 big LANs rather than 4 small? A: I value the prize money, but at a certain point, the community also has to be built and it's just a question of where it becomes more important to have a gathering than to have additional prize. It's also for credibility reasons, to build up a trust relationship and to ensure quality of larger events.
Q: Did you think about Nation Wars Online as in past? A: There will be no Nation Wars affiliated with this event.
Q: 7 slots from europe online qualifiers and 1 slot from american online qualifier, right? A: Correct
Q: Round of 14 – Single Elimination (Jan 26 + Feb 2nd) = 7 winners will qualified to moscow lan? A: Correct
Q: Relative Area means Russia and surrounding european neighbour countries? A: Applies to countries with few sign ups (but in concept, yes... Just not for Russia due to player pool).
i think it means that some countries will not have their qualification for just the country, but for neighboring countries too (nordic for example) how many people will play the "offline" lan? what exactly does 7 + Online Bracket mean? why is the online qualifier for americans here when its not part of this lan? if i end up in a group with sziky, dewalt and napoleon, i better hope i practiced hard? what about the maps?
this may be a little early, but as prague and berlin aren't too far apart, are both countries able to get a sponsored trip to each other's LAN if qualifying?
On September 20 2012 08:20 Bakuryu wrote: i think it means that some countries will not have their qualification for just the country, but for neighboring countries too (nordic for example) how many people will play the "offline" lan? what exactly does 7 + Online Bracket mean? why is the online qualifier for americans here when its not part of this lan? if i end up in a group with sziky, dewalt and napoleon, i better hope i practiced hard? what about the maps?
Q: How many people will play the "offline" lan? A: Seven
Q: What exactly does 7 + Online Bracket mean? A: It means I don't want to fragment the community too much in the process, the online bracket corresponds to America. Players from there will be able to participate even if not in person. 1 slot will be reserved for them (out of the 8).
Q: If i end up in a group with sziky, dewalt and napoleon, i better hope i practiced hard? A: Technically speaking, very unlikely... But we've seen FlaSh/Jaedong/Bisu/Sea before... So I mean, at least all foreigners can be overcome with enough practice (they're not as close to a peak).
Q: What about the maps? A: New maps by Rose.Of.Dream if possible, if not relatively "New" Proleague Maps
On September 20 2012 08:22 LML wrote: this may be a little early, but as prague and berlin aren't too far apart, are both countries able to get a sponsored trip to each other's LAN if qualifying?
All LAN locations include sponsored trips for Europe and Russia with Online bracket for USA/CA/Etc.
On September 20 2012 08:20 Bakuryu wrote: i think it means that some countries will not have their qualification for just the country, but for neighboring countries too (nordic for example) how many people will play the "offline" lan? what exactly does 7 + Online Bracket mean? why is the online qualifier for americans here when its not part of this lan? if i end up in a group with sziky, dewalt and napoleon, i better hope i practiced hard? what about the maps?
Q: How many people will play the "offline" lan? A: Seven
Q: What exactly does 7 + Online Bracket mean? A: It means I don't want to fragment the community too much in the process, the online bracket corresponds to America. Players from there will be able to participate even if not in person. 1 slot will be reserved for them (out of the 8).
Q: If i end up in a group with sziky, dewalt and napoleon, i better hope i practiced hard? A: Technically speaking, very unlikely... But we've seen FlaSh/Jaedong/Bisu/Sea before... So I mean, at least all foreigners can be overcome with enough practice (they're not as close to a peak).
Q: What about the maps? A: New maps by Rose.Of.Dream if possible, if not relatively "New" Proleague Maps
Q: Is it not better to host an American LAN? A: While a segregated community can be good in some cases in terms of viewership given that an entirely different play style can be seen from one community to the next, it is not seen as advantageous in the case of Brood War given the low volume of players. It's unfortunate that we don't have the means to bring them to smaller LANs, but it's still fair for them to play. Note though, that these players have to be lag free at their end.
Kinda cool to see a lot of things cleared up from previous thread.
I just wanted to ask if you calculated how much money will you spend on organizing everything (besides prize pools)? This includes: - Plane tickets for all qualified players/organizers - Renting a revenue - Setting up a stage - Hiring people to set up a stage / computers / network access - Accommodation for all players/organizers - Everything else that I might've missed
Q: What are your estimates on cost for: Q: Plane tickets for all qualified players/organizers A: Grand total travel cost may come out to ~ 3500
Q: Renting a revenue A: Venue for two and a half days probably ~ 3000
Q: Setting up a stage A: PC rentals, broadcast equipment ~ 2000
Q: Hiring people to set up a stage / computers / network access A: Included in venue rental (It'll be at a hotel's Ballroom)
Q: Accommodation for all players/organizers A: Including all hotel rooms ~ 2500
Q: Everything else that I might've missed A: Food, misc expenses ~ 1500
Obviously, all of this is taking into account very quality accommodation, which I would not have my players stay in any less. (I also expect estimates to be high, though it's better over than under.)
On September 20 2012 08:53 Eywa- wrote: Q: What are your estimates on cost for: Q: Plane tickets for all qualified players/organizers A: Grand total travel cost may come out to ~ 3500
Q: Renting a revenue A: Venue for two and a half days probably ~ 3000
Q: Setting up a stage A: PC rentals, broadcast equipment ~ 2000
Q: Hiring people to set up a stage / computers / network access A: Included in venue rental (It'll be at a hotel's Ballroom)
Q: Accommodation for all players/organizers A: Including all hotel rooms ~ 2500
Q: Everything else that I might've missed A: Food, misc expenses ~ 1500
Obviously, all of this is taking into account very quality accommodation, which I would not have my players stay in any less.
i cant take risk of my life fighting bears in forest -_-
And you gave your assurances that this money was already procured for the tournament. I understand you are going to host LANs in other locations, but if the prizepools for the following this LAN and the Moscow LAN combined would be about 14400 dollars, which is substantially lower than the original almost-40,000 dollar prize pool announced, which again, you said you already had available. What is the reason for the drop in prize money? Are you spending more [of the total] money on the venues, accommodations, etc.?
And you gave your assurances that this money was already procured for the tournament. I understand you are going to host LANs in other locations, but if the prizepools for the following this LAN and the Moscow LAN combined would be about 14400 dollars, which is substantially lower than the original almost-40,000 dollar prize pool announced, which again, you said you already had available. What is the reason for the drop in prize money? Are you spending more [of the total] money on the venues, accommodations, etc.?
See FAQ.
Q: What happened to the money original Euro thread boasted? A: It's still there (Grand Finals)
Not to mention the 3 other events aside from the grand final.
On September 20 2012 08:05 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: oh man the weather in russia in november is only for bears and russians T_T
None of the LAN event takes place in November.
OOKE !
lol, you both are so chobo in this. Weather in febuary is much more colder then in november, actually january and febuary are the most cold months in russian winter >_>
yo this is awesome, but list ALL former smurfs and IDs? i dont remember all the IDs ive ever used, and the vast majority of them are insignificant. I understand this is to prevent smurfing but seems excessive to me..
important announcement - if ifu.alfio will manage to qualify and will come to moscow - it may cause a real battle, cause all reps team will be going try to kill him and ifu will prolly try to protect him
On September 20 2012 09:38 reps)Plumbum wrote: important announcement - if ifu.alfio will manage to qualify and will come to moscow - it may cause a real battle, cause all reps team will be going try to kill him and ifu will prolly try to protect him
On July 19 2012 06:25 Antoine wrote: Cool! Where's the money coming from?
This is the big question which everyone has been asking. The money has come from a series of fundraising events which have been conducted by myself while the product being produced by NoisE and venues located by EleGanT. Hence, NoisE being put first in the sponsorship crew, he's worked the hardest to make the money to be honest.
So if NoisE raised the money, how is the tour sponsored entirely by + Show Spoiler +
you
?
Q: What if I can't find the location? A: Someone will pick you up at the airport.
If we are "taken" by human traffickers posing as the LAN officials at the airport, will you send Liam Neeson to rescue us?
I think it'd be best if you made one of those 5 LANs an American LAN. Europe having 4 and America having 1 would still be imbalanced, but wouldn't segment the community /as/ much.
On September 20 2012 09:58 Game wrote: I think it'd be best if you made one of those 5 LANs an American LAN. Europe having 4 and America having 1 would still be imbalanced, but wouldn't segment the community /as/ much.
On July 19 2012 06:25 Antoine wrote: Cool! Where's the money coming from?
This is the big question which everyone has been asking. The money has come from a series of fundraising events which have been conducted by myself while the product being produced by NoisE and venues located by EleGanT. Hence, NoisE being put first in the sponsorship crew, he's worked the hardest to make the money to be honest.
So if NoisE raised the money, how is the tour sponsored entirely by + Show Spoiler +
On July 19 2012 06:25 Antoine wrote: Cool! Where's the money coming from?
This is the big question which everyone has been asking. The money has come from a series of fundraising events which have been conducted by myself while the product being produced by NoisE and venues located by EleGanT. Hence, NoisE being put first in the sponsorship crew, he's worked the hardest to make the money to be honest.
So if NoisE raised the money, how is the tour sponsored entirely by + Show Spoiler +
Q: What if I can't find the location? A: Someone will pick you up at the airport.
If we are "taken" by human traffickers posing as the LAN officials at the airport, will you send Liam Neeson to rescue us?
I am apart of EywaSC. And yes Liam Neeson will be on call the whole event just in case anything like this happens. We will also have Russel Crowe and Jennifer Aniston for no reason other than to have them there.
On September 20 2012 18:59 sas.Sziky wrote: Moscow oo?... ((((
Q: What happened to the money original Euro thread boasted? A: It's still there (Grand Finals).
oo? I do not understand, More about someone.
there will be 4 smaller LAN's
and 1 big one (grand Finals) with this huge prizepool what was announced in previous thread
So there will be online qualifiers for every single event ? ( 4 small one + grand finals) or will the small lans decide who will attend the grand finals ( would make sense i guess ? )
On September 20 2012 18:59 sas.Sziky wrote: Moscow oo?... ((((
Q: What happened to the money original Euro thread boasted? A: It's still there (Grand Finals).
oo? I do not understand, More about someone.
there will be 4 smaller LAN's
and 1 big one (grand Finals) with this huge prizepool what was announced in previous thread
So there will be online qualifiers for every single event ? ( 4 small one + grand finals) or will the small lans decide who will attend the grand finals ( would make sense i guess ? )
Q: So there will be online qualifiers for every single event ? A: Yes, there will be some seeding, however, most of the qualifying will be online.
On September 20 2012 18:59 sas.Sziky wrote: Moscow oo?... ((((
Q: What happened to the money original Euro thread boasted? A: It's still there (Grand Finals).
oo? I do not understand, More about someone.
there will be 4 smaller LAN's
and 1 big one (grand Finals) with this huge prizepool what was announced in previous thread
So there will be online qualifiers for every single event ? ( 4 small one + grand finals) or will the small lans decide who will attend the grand finals ( would make sense i guess ? )
Q: So there will be online qualifiers for every single event ? A: Yes, there will be some seeding, however, most of the qualifying will be online.
Ty for your fast respond, some seeding ? How that is meant ?
Q: How will seeding work? A: 1st place gives an automatic seed into both the next LAN and the Grand Finals. Other placements at the LAN event will gain seeding in the qualifiers for the next LAN.
On September 20 2012 21:42 Eywa- wrote: Q: How will seeding work? A: 1st place gives an automatic seed into both the next LAN and the Grand Finals. Other placements at the LAN event will gain seeding in the qualifiers for the next LAN.
So can i book tickets for Prague and Berlin? It says in the thread before the lan in Prague will be on the 14th of April? could we have more info? one day only or more days? and when will the one in Berlin be? If i want to afford the trips i' ll have to start looking for tickets soon.
On September 20 2012 08:12 ArvickHero wrote: goddamn .. MAJOR props, I can only hope that this will be a smashing success
dude, if you want to help eywa with sonic thing, you can try. email me if you're interested, since seems you really like to be a friend of sonic or w/e SUPERMAN in foreign scene who helps foreign with Korean scene. I'm too busy to help eywa.
Q: are the qualify players been flown over? A: Plane/bus/train/car... Really will depend on each player individually, but yes.
Q: If I don't qualify, can I still pay my own way to go there? A: There will be a system which allows you to do this, however, it has not yet been announced and it will be very selective upon skill.
Q: If a buddy wants to come with me, can he stay in my room as well? A: You'll be sharing a room with another player, they're 2 beds... So there are two options, either your roomate agrees or you pay ~$85 per night to have a separate room with your friend rather than another player.
This sounds a lot better than the previous format, building up confidence in the tournament gradually is certainly a good step. Hope it all works out and can't wait to see you all in Prague! :D
Still no answer to my post, i wanna come and see the games, lans are not only about the games itself, its also about all the fun around it! i have decided to trust in this, because in the end, we all really want this to go down. However there' s no locations yet established or dates for Prague/Berlin. I' m hoping this info and decisions will be realised soon.
7 slots from europe online qualifiers and 1 slot from american online qualifier, right? Round of 14 – Single Elimination (Jan 26 + Feb 2nd) = 7 winners will qualified to moscow lan?
Q: How can I book tickets for Prague and Berlin? A: You can book them any time by contacting myself, like I said in the previous thread. Donations are requested, but not required. Basically, if we get 1000 people who arbitrarily say they're going to be there, we might reserve 500 seats. However, if we get 750 people who demonstrate additional interest, there will be at least 750 seats. (Proof of booking room/trip is also good enough to guarantee)
Q: It says in the thread before the lan in Prague will be on the 14th of April, could we have more info? A: April 12-14, 3 days.
On July 19 2012 06:25 Antoine wrote: Cool! Where's the money coming from?
This is the big question which everyone has been asking. The money has come from a series of fundraising events which have been conducted by myself while the product being produced by NoisE and venues located by EleGanT. Hence, NoisE being put first in the sponsorship crew, he's worked the hardest to make the money to be honest.
So if NoisE raised the money, how is the tour sponsored entirely by + Show Spoiler +
you
?
Q: What if I can't find the location? A: Someone will pick you up at the airport.
If we are "taken" by human traffickers posing as the LAN officials at the airport, will you send Liam Neeson to rescue us?
I am apart of EywaSC. And yes Liam Neeson will be on call the whole event just in case anything like this happens. We will also have Russel Crowe and Jennifer Aniston for no reason other than to have them there.
Russel Crowe's special attack is similar to Naomi Campbell's, which is to throw telephones at people, which I haven't found to be very effective. I think you should get Denzel Washington instead.
There is an online Wild Card slot. What and who is entitled to it under?(moscow hard t.t) 4 small lan why not 2 big?:D (current BW scene may not be able to deal with four major lute i think ) or online >>Organisers edition more than the prize
Q: Who is entitled to enter for the online wild card slot? A: Absolutely lag free North and South Americans.
Q: Why not 2 big LANs rather than 4 small? A: I value the prize money, but at a certain point, the community also has to be built and it's just a question of where it becomes more important to have a gathering than to have additional prize. It's also for credibility reasons, to build up a trust relationship and to ensure quality of larger events.
On September 22 2012 01:13 thezanursic wrote: Q: When will the one in Berlin be? A: August 7-11
2013? because that's like 3 weeks from now
I hope you aren't serious. August was last month not next. So it's in 2013, yea
wait i thought prauge was the main event, i geus not that.
btw can there be PLZ one in the netherlands in lets say: enschede its is a realy place for it, otherwise maby amsterdam (note if you come for the weed don't go to the lower and middle parts in the netherlands, you won't be able to buy weed in coffeshops
I am more than interested in helping out organizing the Stockholm lan however i do think there are a few aspects to consider:
I've just got in touch with one of the DH guys here about organizing a tournament. He basically said that the most fundamental prerequisites are financial support of the tourney and someone organizing. I think we should adapt date and location after the largest event there is in our business.
On September 22 2012 08:21 Jaevlaterran wrote: And please can we keep the weed talk out of this thread? It doesn't fit a serious thread imo. This is the face of this event.
I really have to agree with this... But realistically, it's up to the Brood War mods, no one else can do anything about it ;d.
lol i wont beat him I just wanna see how brave he is irl. It's really interesting can he say something about russians to my face or not yeah, but im not sure that i could come to Moscow 100%
On September 29 2012 21:50 sas.Sziky wrote: Actually, no player 20, since everyone is logged in Prague! not moscow .. I was trying to say that this was not a very good idea I think.
or has not been updated? can have 50 players registrated!:D
sziky we have more than 1 lan. the first one start in russia .
On September 29 2012 21:50 sas.Sziky wrote: Actually, no player 20, since everyone is logged in Prague! not moscow .. I was trying to say that this was not a very good idea I think.
or has not been updated? can have 50 players registrated!:D
sziky we have more than 1 lan. the first one start in russia . and the Grand Final in prague
Actually the 1st lan is in Moscow, 2nd in Prague, 3rd in Berlin, 4th in Stockholm and the Grand Finals are yet to be announced... unless I missed something about it being in Prague again .)
On September 29 2012 21:50 sas.Sziky wrote: Actually, no player 20, since everyone is logged in Prague! not moscow .. I was trying to say that this was not a very good idea I think.
or has not been updated? can have 50 players registrated!:D
sziky we have more than 1 lan. the first one start in russia . and the Grand Final in prague
Actually the 1st lan is in Moscow, 2nd in Prague, 3rd in Berlin, 4th in Stockholm and the Grand Finals are yet to be announced... unless I missed something about it being in Prague again .)
Grand Final* because there is going to be one O.O
at the beginning the grand final was annouced in Prague, but everything changed with this thread
On September 29 2012 18:56 noobstrikeback wrote: lol i wont beat him I just wanna see how brave he is irl. It's really interesting can he say something about russians to my face or not yeah, but im not sure that i could come to Moscow 100%
lol :D when did i say such a thing ? + I am so scared right now men, i wont come to moscow then. (roflroflrofl)
On September 29 2012 18:56 noobstrikeback wrote: lol i wont beat him I just wanna see how brave he is irl. It's really interesting can he say something about russians to my face or not yeah, but im not sure that i could come to Moscow 100%
lol :D when did i say such a thing ? + I am so scared right now men, i wont come to moscow then. (roflroflrofl)
On October 11 2012 00:52 Sinedd wrote: just bumpin cause this isnt getting enough attention !!!!!
It's not getting any attention because there's virtually no player interest... Or so it seems. I'm considering working a bit harder and merging this with a dota 2 LAN at the same time (so at least if the BW LAN is unsuccessful, the stage won't be wasted).
On October 11 2012 00:52 Sinedd wrote: just bumpin cause this isnt getting enough attention !!!!!
It's not getting any attention because there's virtually no player interest... Or so it seems. I'm considering working a bit harder and merging this with a dota 2 LAN at the same time (so at least if the BW LAN is unsuccessful, the stage won't be wasted).
LOOOOL I think people want more details or i dont have idea -_-
Well a lot of the big names are up on that list but barely any mediocre/bad. As a D noob from the Czech Republic, should I sign up for this? Will I be guaranteed to play in the online qualifiers (although obviously in a setting where I won't be able to win, so I guess merged with other europe countries) or is that a waste of everyone's time?
stratos: as for every tournament the answer is yes. Participating helps you and tournaments in several ways. You get practice in tours, maybe meet some of your favourite top players you've always wanted to play against, or have a good run that makes you happy. On the other hand tournaments with many players is always great, for presenting it to sponsors or w/e, simply for the joy of the organizer to see that people came and maybe enjoyed what they put their time into.
On October 11 2012 00:52 Sinedd wrote: just bumpin cause this isnt getting enough attention !!!!!
It's not getting any attention because there's virtually no player interest... Or so it seems. I'm considering working a bit harder and merging this with a dota 2 LAN at the same time (so at least if the BW LAN is unsuccessful, the stage won't be wasted).
you should just advertise it more
put it on every esport forum that is popular
post in not BW forums too !
this is big and the word should be spread out as far as it can get
not sure about other people, I am just waiting for actual dates of qualifiers+ map selection and so on, before I decide to sign up. Also, from looking @ The GC experience, you should try and affiliate with some aids to make sure things run smoothly.
On October 11 2012 08:02 dRaW wrote: not sure about other people, I am just waiting for actual dates of qualifiers+ map selection and so on, before I decide to sign up. Also, from looking @ The GC experience, you should try and affiliate with some aids to make sure things run smoothly.
Looking from my experience of dealing with Brood War in General, there will be very few volunteers for this. Also, the dates are in the OP... Which would mean that you probably didn't read the OP.
Voulunteer right here. Not sure how can i help but i would in any way i can.
I stated before i am ready to buy a ticket for Prague and possibly Berlin. I can help organizing or whatever.
Counstrucitve critisism: like EonZerg said, i think people are waiting on more exact info. You have to make it more official. When people start seeing Dates are set in stone, locations are established, partners are in on it, they will start flooding in like a flowing river.
For an event like this, a portion of it must be devolved into advertisement. Pay someone to make a website for this event.
Buy ads on TL and on the internet in general.. Make some merchandise for the event (T-shirts, caps, flags).
Get partners, like some gaming house to provide you with equipment.
Sponsors. Local and wordwide. This event will attract a lot of people and local sponsors are really good for having contact with the local community which is an important part of events as well. World wide sponsors will help generate revenue and expand even more the amount visibility towards it. A lot of people will be interested in this trust me.
Get convensions with local hotels/hostels, eating places and such.
Get in contact with Broodwar people in Moscow, Prague, Berlin and stockholm that are local and know the city well, as they will be able to help you out with the organizatioin part as well as finding the ideal location to host the event. Have them write how to get to the location from airport/train station bus station and how to move around in the city.
Only 5 months until this event goes down. I have organized a lot of things in my life and can tell you that its never too early to start getting prepared.
On October 11 2012 08:02 dRaW wrote: not sure about other people, I am just waiting for actual dates of qualifiers+ map selection and so on, before I decide to sign up. Also, from looking @ The GC experience, you should try and affiliate with some aids to make sure things run smoothly.
Looking from my experience of dealing with Brood War in General, there will be very few volunteers for this. Also, the dates are in the OP... Which would mean that you probably didn't read the OP.
All I saw was "Americas Online Double Elimination bracket for wildcard slot (Feb 17th - 21st)"
so I have to register before then? This is every Western country as well: peru/chile/usa/can/etc?
Basically I assume there will be a private thread for the online qualifiers by the time it's rolling around, that's when I will decide if I will register or not.
edit: also I mentioned stuff about maps and so forth, basically if information was a pylon, and I am a Protoss player who just got knowledge of the tour blocked...
ATTENTION N&S AMERICA Assuming there are still too few players from the Americas by the time European Qualifiers start, the seat reserved for them will be removed.
Voulunteer right here. Not sure how can i help but i would in any way i can.
I stated before i am ready to buy a ticket for Prague and possibly Berlin. I can help organizing or whatever.
Counstrucitve critisism: like EonZerg said, i think people are waiting on more exact info. You have to make it more official. When people start seeing Dates are set in stone, locations are established, partners are in on it, they will start flooding in like a flowing river.
For an event like this, a portion of it must be devolved into advertisement. Pay someone to make a website for this event.
Buy ads on TL and on the internet in general.. Make some merchandise for the event (T-shirts, caps, flags).
Get partners, like some gaming house to provide you with equipment.
Sponsors. Local and wordwide. This event will attract a lot of people and local sponsors are really good for having contact with the local community which is an important part of events as well. World wide sponsors will help generate revenue and expand even more the amount visibility towards it. A lot of people will be interested in this trust me.
Get convensions with local hotels/hostels, eating places and such.
Get in contact with Broodwar people in Moscow, Prague, Berlin and stockholm that are local and know the city well, as they will be able to help you out with the organizatioin part as well as finding the ideal location to host the event. Have them write how to get to the location from airport/train station bus station and how to move around in the city.
Only 5 months until this event goes down. I have organized a lot of things in my life and can tell you that its never too early to start getting prepared.
100% agreed. Also asking a couple of popular people that used to play BW or people that used to cast it (The old OSL/MSL casters) to cast or at least give a shout out wouldn't hurt.
*Cough* *Cough* We all know who I'm talking about.
On October 11 2012 08:02 dRaW wrote: not sure about other people, I am just waiting for actual dates of qualifiers+ map selection and so on, before I decide to sign up. Also, from looking @ The GC experience, you should try and affiliate with some aids to make sure things run smoothly.
Looking from my experience of dealing with Brood War in General, there will be very few volunteers for this. Also, the dates are in the OP... Which would mean that you probably didn't read the OP.
All I saw was "Americas Online Double Elimination bracket for wildcard slot (Feb 17th - 21st)"
so I have to register before then? This is every Western country as well: peru/chile/usa/can/etc?
Basically I assume there will be a private thread for the online qualifiers by the time it's rolling around, that's when I will decide if I will register or not.
edit: also I mentioned stuff about maps and so forth, basically if information was a pylon, and I am a Protoss player who just got knowledge of the tour blocked...
signing up means u show interest in the tour. not signing up as early as possible is hurting the tour because eywa wont know with how many people he has to deal with, which will result in "changes" or possibly even a cancellation. if u sign up and cant make it to the actual tournament or whatever, u at least showed interest. honestly, i dont get the "not enough information" argument. how the hell does signing up hurt u? it takes max 3 minutes to send him the e-mail, if u managed to read the last 2 pages or replied 1-2 times which should take around the same time, then for the love of god, sign up.
Voulunteer right here. Not sure how can i help but i would in any way i can.
I stated before i am ready to buy a ticket for Prague and possibly Berlin. I can help organizing or whatever.
Counstrucitve critisism: like EonZerg said, i think people are waiting on more exact info. You have to make it more official. When people start seeing Dates are set in stone, locations are established, partners are in on it, they will start flooding in like a flowing river.
For an event like this, a portion of it must be devolved into advertisement. Pay someone to make a website for this event.
Buy ads on TL and on the internet in general.. Make some merchandise for the event (T-shirts, caps, flags).
Get partners, like some gaming house to provide you with equipment.
Sponsors. Local and wordwide. This event will attract a lot of people and local sponsors are really good for having contact with the local community which is an important part of events as well. World wide sponsors will help generate revenue and expand even more the amount visibility towards it. A lot of people will be interested in this trust me.
Get convensions with local hotels/hostels, eating places and such.
Get in contact with Broodwar people in Moscow, Prague, Berlin and stockholm that are local and know the city well, as they will be able to help you out with the organizatioin part as well as finding the ideal location to host the event. Have them write how to get to the location from airport/train station bus station and how to move around in the city.
Only 5 months until this event goes down. I have organized a lot of things in my life and can tell you that its never too early to start getting prepared.
100% agreed. Also asking a couple of popular people that used to play BW or people that used to cast it (The old OSL/MSL casters) to cast or at least give a shout out wouldn't hurt.
*Cough* *Cough* We all know who I'm talking about.
I've e-mailed quite a few casters who've moved onto Starcraft 2 over the years, none have ever replied.
On October 11 2012 08:02 dRaW wrote: not sure about other people, I am just waiting for actual dates of qualifiers+ map selection and so on, before I decide to sign up. Also, from looking @ The GC experience, you should try and affiliate with some aids to make sure things run smoothly.
Looking from my experience of dealing with Brood War in General, there will be very few volunteers for this. Also, the dates are in the OP... Which would mean that you probably didn't read the OP.
All I saw was "Americas Online Double Elimination bracket for wildcard slot (Feb 17th - 21st)"
so I have to register before then? This is every Western country as well: peru/chile/usa/can/etc?
Basically I assume there will be a private thread for the online qualifiers by the time it's rolling around, that's when I will decide if I will register or not.
edit: also I mentioned stuff about maps and so forth, basically if information was a pylon, and I am a Protoss player who just got knowledge of the tour blocked...
signing up means u show interest in the tour. not signing up as early as possible is hurting the tour because eywa wont know with how many people he has to deal with, which will result in "changes" or possibly even a cancellation. if u sign up and cant make it to the actual tournament or whatever, u at least showed interest. honestly, i dont get the "not enough information" argument. how the hell does signing up hurt u? it takes max 3 minutes to send him the e-mail, if u managed to read the last 2 pages or replied 1-2 times which should take around the same time, then for the love of god, sign up.
okay i did it, but this is also a problem I was thinking of. If the americas qualify, they will be the only ones not @ the LAN so what's gonna happen when there's lag issues T_T
On October 11 2012 08:02 dRaW wrote: not sure about other people, I am just waiting for actual dates of qualifiers+ map selection and so on, before I decide to sign up. Also, from looking @ The GC experience, you should try and affiliate with some aids to make sure things run smoothly.
Looking from my experience of dealing with Brood War in General, there will be very few volunteers for this. Also, the dates are in the OP... Which would mean that you probably didn't read the OP.
All I saw was "Americas Online Double Elimination bracket for wildcard slot (Feb 17th - 21st)"
so I have to register before then? This is every Western country as well: peru/chile/usa/can/etc?
Basically I assume there will be a private thread for the online qualifiers by the time it's rolling around, that's when I will decide if I will register or not.
edit: also I mentioned stuff about maps and so forth, basically if information was a pylon, and I am a Protoss player who just got knowledge of the tour blocked...
signing up means u show interest in the tour. not signing up as early as possible is hurting the tour because eywa wont know with how many people he has to deal with, which will result in "changes" or possibly even a cancellation. if u sign up and cant make it to the actual tournament or whatever, u at least showed interest. honestly, i dont get the "not enough information" argument. how the hell does signing up hurt u? it takes max 3 minutes to send him the e-mail, if u managed to read the last 2 pages or replied 1-2 times which should take around the same time, then for the love of god, sign up.
okay i did it, but this is also a problem I was thinking of. If the americas qualify, they will be the only ones not @ the LAN so what's gonna happen when there's lag issues T_T
You will both play a Bo5 against someone in china and then whoever has the best record wins.
On October 11 2012 08:02 dRaW wrote: not sure about other people, I am just waiting for actual dates of qualifiers+ map selection and so on, before I decide to sign up. Also, from looking @ The GC experience, you should try and affiliate with some aids to make sure things run smoothly.
Looking from my experience of dealing with Brood War in General, there will be very few volunteers for this. Also, the dates are in the OP... Which would mean that you probably didn't read the OP.
All I saw was "Americas Online Double Elimination bracket for wildcard slot (Feb 17th - 21st)"
so I have to register before then? This is every Western country as well: peru/chile/usa/can/etc?
Basically I assume there will be a private thread for the online qualifiers by the time it's rolling around, that's when I will decide if I will register or not.
edit: also I mentioned stuff about maps and so forth, basically if information was a pylon, and I am a Protoss player who just got knowledge of the tour blocked...
signing up means u show interest in the tour. not signing up as early as possible is hurting the tour because eywa wont know with how many people he has to deal with, which will result in "changes" or possibly even a cancellation. if u sign up and cant make it to the actual tournament or whatever, u at least showed interest. honestly, i dont get the "not enough information" argument. how the hell does signing up hurt u? it takes max 3 minutes to send him the e-mail, if u managed to read the last 2 pages or replied 1-2 times which should take around the same time, then for the love of god, sign up.
okay i did it, but this is also a problem I was thinking of. If the americas qualify, they will be the only ones not @ the LAN so what's gonna happen when there's lag issues T_T
On October 18 2012 04:25 trutaCz wrote: 3weeks to quali starts o.o
I still don't see Location: TBA (3 weeks time) and prizes for each place.
This will be rectified shortly.
If the situation of player count does not change within the next 3 weeks, qualifiers will also be opened for the event in Korea.
lol, if this happens, in my opinion everyone would just lose interest as a gosu Korean would umm.....auto win?
less interest than 33 people playing for 7 spots? is that even possible? we have defiler tournaments with 50+ people playing for 40$ here we have 90 times the money, yet not even the same amount of people, even though it will probably be easy for all nations to take part (no all nighters starting at 1 am)..... and btw, why dont u sign up?
im still waiting on why i need to include every smurf name ive ever played on. I will register soon as that is cleared up, and i can collect some replays and whatever else it said i needed (the registration process seems tedious and that + the event not taking place just yet is probably making a lot of people procrastinate, like myself)
On October 18 2012 08:45 FyRe_DragOn wrote: im still waiting on why i need to include every smurf name ive ever played on. I will register soon as that is cleared up, and i can collect some replays and whatever else it said i needed (the registration process seems tedious and that + the event not taking place just yet is probably making a lot of people procrastinate, like myself)
For sake of knowing who you are and what your skill level is (obviously really stupid for someone like you). It's mostly for people from canada/usa (lesser known or returning)... Since you can't really smurf a LAN without getting fake ID and a whole slew of shit.
But everyone has to give out a decent AKA count (meaningful ones obviously).
On October 18 2012 08:45 FyRe_DragOn wrote: im still waiting on why i need to include every smurf name ive ever played on. I will register soon as that is cleared up, and i can collect some replays and whatever else it said i needed (the registration process seems tedious and that + the event not taking place just yet is probably making a lot of people procrastinate, like myself)
my smurf list is 3pages single spaced, took me 5 hours of rough drafting and another 2 for the final copy. : ))) also I had to submit a ton of replays because of a secret past which I can't ignore...
On October 18 2012 04:25 trutaCz wrote: 3weeks to quali starts o.o
I still don't see Location: TBA (3 weeks time) and prizes for each place.
This will be rectified shortly.
If the situation of player count does not change within the next 3 weeks, qualifiers will also be opened for the event in Korea.
We need better promotion for this tournament. Still a lot of people doesn't know about this.
indeed..
Eywa please dont let koreans play in this..
it will be just a slaughouse and people wouldnt want to play the next LAN's with koreans in them..
maybe a better idea is to create a separate tournament for koreans, with smaller prizepool, so they would play at this LAN too but not vs foreigners..
also - maybe you should think about changing the registration rules to some easier
like 5 reps per MU and not posting all your smurfs account because it is pretty tiring for some players and I bet they would register if the rules were a little bit less harsh
also to russian players - please advertise this tournament everywhere on the russian BW forums ! this gonna be organized in YOUR country !!! and the scene is still pretty damn big as far as I know so you guys should register asap !!! this would be a large boost imo
People may have many different reasons to not sign up and it may be organizer's fault. Does it make sense to enumarate them if it's too late for organizer?
On October 18 2012 04:25 trutaCz wrote: 3weeks to quali starts o.o
I still don't see Location: TBA (3 weeks time) and prizes for each place.
This will be rectified shortly.
If the situation of player count does not change within the next 3 weeks, qualifiers will also be opened for the event in Korea.
We need better promotion for this tournament. Still a lot of people doesn't know about this.
indeed..
Eywa please dont let koreans play in this..
it will be just a slaughouse and people wouldnt want to play the next LAN's with koreans in them..
maybe a better idea is to create a separate tournament for koreans, with smaller prizepool, so they would play at this LAN too but not vs foreigners..
also - maybe you should think about changing the registration rules to some easier
like 5 reps per MU and not posting all your smurfs account because it is pretty tiring for some players and I bet they would register if the rules were a little bit less harsh
You're getting a paid trip to a foreign country and get to compete for money, even if the other 7 players besides me were top koreans I couldn't ever beat I wouldn't sign out because of that. The experience and a free trip, already enough to compete for. And 15 replays for each matchup? Maybe configure your auto replay so that it saves the races in the replay's name, then it takes 2-3minutes to find enough games, srsly.
Some thoughts from a discussion with Dollar. Compared to what money you want to invest into this, the promotion of this is ridiculously bad. One ugly picture and a thread full of words and a shitton of FAQ nobody will possibly read. You say you contacted some people (casters?) to help you promote this thing, none of them replied. Wonder why? There's a complex coverage on TL but not once has this been mentioned elsewhere outside this thread. Wonder why?
A lot of people did not have confidence in this at first and there's a reason. If there is something great to come, it should be presented that way. One should be able to tell that the people behind it are serious.
I get it, it's hard to get help from volunteers because not many people had faith in this in the first place = and we're in an endless circle. In my opinion, the easy solution here is to take a small part of the prizepool and just invest it into promotion. Hire someone to make a SIMPLE website, graphics for the thread, some hype vid even, where the organization explains what's going to happen and why. It doesn't have to be top quality, it just has to be something.
I don't know if anything is under construction, but if not, it really needs to happen. Asap. Coupled with the uneasy sign-up process (45 replays, really?), this is hurting the event in so many ways. If the people behind this don't know what needs to be done in terms of PR in the first place, just hire someone to do it all. I'm sure there's plenty of people from the sc2 scene who would be happy to take the opportunity. Use them. Once you get a quality hype going, people will spread the word and more people will join, volunteers will show up and it can all happen. As it is, people are hesitating to even mention the event because they don't want to be the ones to promote a scam or something that's just not going to happen.
Splitting the tournament into parts and making Moscow happen would be a good step in removing these doubts. But if you want to make it pure BW, you want to make sure Moscow doesn't fail in the first place. Use your money wisely. What seems a waste might actually be crucial for this to happen.
edit: Just read signing up ends november 3rd.. well I guess that makes promotion for Moscow kinda useless. Focus on the next one then I guess :< Make sure there's good footage to use from the event in Moscow.
On October 18 2012 04:25 trutaCz wrote: 3weeks to quali starts o.o
I still don't see Location: TBA (3 weeks time) and prizes for each place.
This will be rectified shortly.
If the situation of player count does not change within the next 3 weeks, qualifiers will also be opened for the event in Korea.
We need better promotion for this tournament. Still a lot of people doesn't know about this.
indeed..
Eywa please dont let koreans play in this..
it will be just a slaughouse and people wouldnt want to play the next LAN's with koreans in them..
maybe a better idea is to create a separate tournament for koreans, with smaller prizepool, so they would play at this LAN too but not vs foreigners..
also - maybe you should think about changing the registration rules to some easier
like 5 reps per MU and not posting all your smurfs account because it is pretty tiring for some players and I bet they would register if the rules were a little bit less harsh
You're getting a paid trip to a foreign country and get to compete for money, even if the other 7 players besides me were top koreans I couldn't ever beat I wouldn't sign out because of that. The experience and a free trip, already enough to compete for. And 15 replays for each matchup? Maybe configure your auto replay so that it saves the races in the replay's name, then it takes 2-3minutes to find enough games, srsly.
I still think that 15 for each MU is too much..
also - just as Stratos says - this need so much more promotion !
it is AMAZING HUGE !!! way bigger than the TSL even ! and TSL was hyped so much..
we need to spread the word and help.. If I can help with this in any way or form, please tell me what to do
Stratos ! - make some hype videos if you can !
Eywa ! - contact people from the NoisE Starleague to make amazing OP's like in NSL !
I'll be most likely making some sort of a hype vid for Prague, if it's happening. We should be having a smaller BW lan before that so if there's footage from that + Moscow I'll be able to make something happen with it. But you should make sure there's something coherent going on (THSL style). Ideally hire one person to do it all or form a small team that would work together. It's not that difficult and shouldn't require a whole lot of money. But as it is, 'spreading the word' is pretty much useless because the people who will actually click the link won't even bother to read the OP after the first glance. That's why you only see the regular BW players signing up for this.
On October 21 2012 16:19 Stratos wrote: Some thoughts from a discussion with Dollar. Compared to what money you want to invest into this, the promotion of this is ridiculously bad. One ugly picture and a thread full of words and a shitton of FAQ nobody will possibly read. You say you contacted some people (casters?) to help you promote this thing, none of them replied. Wonder why? There's a complex coverage on TL but not once has this been mentioned elsewhere outside this thread. Wonder why?
A lot of people did not have confidence in this at first and there's a reason. If there is something great to come, it should be presented that way. One should be able to tell that the people behind it are serious.
I get it, it's hard to get help from volunteers because not many people had faith in this in the first place = and we're in an endless circle. In my opinion, the easy solution here is to take a small part of the prizepool and just invest it into promotion. Hire someone to make a SIMPLE website, graphics for the thread, some hype vid even, where the organization explains what's going to happen and why. It doesn't have to be top quality, it just has to be something.
I don't know if anything is under construction, but if not, it really needs to happen. Asap. Coupled with the uneasy sign-up process (45 replays, really?), this is hurting the event in so many ways. If the people behind this don't know what needs to be done in terms of PR in the first place, just hire someone to do it all. I'm sure there's plenty of people from the sc2 scene who would be happy to take the opportunity. Use them. Once you get a quality hype going, people will spread the word and more people will join, volunteers will show up and it can all happen. As it is, people are hesitating to even mention the event because they don't want to be the ones to promote a scam or something that's just not going to happen.
Splitting the tournament into parts and making Moscow happen would be a good step in removing these doubts. But if you want to make it pure BW, you want to make sure Moscow doesn't fail in the first place. Use your money wisely. What seems a waste might actually be crucial for this to happen.
edit: Just read signing up ends november 3rd.. well I guess that makes promotion for Moscow kinda useless. Focus on the next one then I guess :< Make sure there's good footage to use from the event in Moscow.
About 30th person to rip out the event without actually any intent on doing anything about it. I'm already done trying to recover anything for the Brood War community, if this turns out to be a match between all of the brood war players we already know and are in our community, than so be it... I don't care. It's no longer about expansion anymore for me. If you guys want your community to expand, you're free to advertise, do some shenanigans. I have no interest in doing so.
On October 21 2012 16:19 Stratos wrote: Some thoughts from a discussion with Dollar. Compared to what money you want to invest into this, the promotion of this is ridiculously bad. One ugly picture and a thread full of words and a shitton of FAQ nobody will possibly read. You say you contacted some people (casters?) to help you promote this thing, none of them replied. Wonder why? There's a complex coverage on TL but not once has this been mentioned elsewhere outside this thread. Wonder why?
A lot of people did not have confidence in this at first and there's a reason. If there is something great to come, it should be presented that way. One should be able to tell that the people behind it are serious.
I get it, it's hard to get help from volunteers because not many people had faith in this in the first place = and we're in an endless circle. In my opinion, the easy solution here is to take a small part of the prizepool and just invest it into promotion. Hire someone to make a SIMPLE website, graphics for the thread, some hype vid even, where the organization explains what's going to happen and why. It doesn't have to be top quality, it just has to be something.
I don't know if anything is under construction, but if not, it really needs to happen. Asap. Coupled with the uneasy sign-up process (45 replays, really?), this is hurting the event in so many ways. If the people behind this don't know what needs to be done in terms of PR in the first place, just hire someone to do it all. I'm sure there's plenty of people from the sc2 scene who would be happy to take the opportunity. Use them. Once you get a quality hype going, people will spread the word and more people will join, volunteers will show up and it can all happen. As it is, people are hesitating to even mention the event because they don't want to be the ones to promote a scam or something that's just not going to happen.
Splitting the tournament into parts and making Moscow happen would be a good step in removing these doubts. But if you want to make it pure BW, you want to make sure Moscow doesn't fail in the first place. Use your money wisely. What seems a waste might actually be crucial for this to happen.
edit: Just read signing up ends november 3rd.. well I guess that makes promotion for Moscow kinda useless. Focus on the next one then I guess :< Make sure there's good footage to use from the event in Moscow.
One post that makes more sense than few weeks (months?) of work by one of the best bw tourney's organizer.
On October 21 2012 16:19 Stratos wrote: Some thoughts from a discussion with Dollar. Compared to what money you want to invest into this, the promotion of this is ridiculously bad. One ugly picture and a thread full of words and a shitton of FAQ nobody will possibly read. You say you contacted some people (casters?) to help you promote this thing, none of them replied. Wonder why? There's a complex coverage on TL but not once has this been mentioned elsewhere outside this thread. Wonder why?
A lot of people did not have confidence in this at first and there's a reason. If there is something great to come, it should be presented that way. One should be able to tell that the people behind it are serious.
I get it, it's hard to get help from volunteers because not many people had faith in this in the first place = and we're in an endless circle. In my opinion, the easy solution here is to take a small part of the prizepool and just invest it into promotion. Hire someone to make a SIMPLE website, graphics for the thread, some hype vid even, where the organization explains what's going to happen and why. It doesn't have to be top quality, it just has to be something.
I don't know if anything is under construction, but if not, it really needs to happen. Asap. Coupled with the uneasy sign-up process (45 replays, really?), this is hurting the event in so many ways. If the people behind this don't know what needs to be done in terms of PR in the first place, just hire someone to do it all. I'm sure there's plenty of people from the sc2 scene who would be happy to take the opportunity. Use them. Once you get a quality hype going, people will spread the word and more people will join, volunteers will show up and it can all happen. As it is, people are hesitating to even mention the event because they don't want to be the ones to promote a scam or something that's just not going to happen.
Splitting the tournament into parts and making Moscow happen would be a good step in removing these doubts. But if you want to make it pure BW, you want to make sure Moscow doesn't fail in the first place. Use your money wisely. What seems a waste might actually be crucial for this to happen.
edit: Just read signing up ends november 3rd.. well I guess that makes promotion for Moscow kinda useless. Focus on the next one then I guess :< Make sure there's good footage to use from the event in Moscow.
One post that makes more sense than few weeks (months?) of work by one of the best bw tourney's organizer.
*Couple days - I really haven't invested any time into Brood War in the past couple months and I have no interest in increasing this number given the community. Refer to my previous reply to stratos.
On October 21 2012 16:19 Stratos wrote: Some thoughts from a discussion with Dollar. Compared to what money you want to invest into this, the promotion of this is ridiculously bad. One ugly picture and a thread full of words and a shitton of FAQ nobody will possibly read. You say you contacted some people (casters?) to help you promote this thing, none of them replied. Wonder why? There's a complex coverage on TL but not once has this been mentioned elsewhere outside this thread. Wonder why?
A lot of people did not have confidence in this at first and there's a reason. If there is something great to come, it should be presented that way. One should be able to tell that the people behind it are serious.
I get it, it's hard to get help from volunteers because not many people had faith in this in the first place = and we're in an endless circle. In my opinion, the easy solution here is to take a small part of the prizepool and just invest it into promotion. Hire someone to make a SIMPLE website, graphics for the thread, some hype vid even, where the organization explains what's going to happen and why. It doesn't have to be top quality, it just has to be something.
I don't know if anything is under construction, but if not, it really needs to happen. Asap. Coupled with the uneasy sign-up process (45 replays, really?), this is hurting the event in so many ways. If the people behind this don't know what needs to be done in terms of PR in the first place, just hire someone to do it all. I'm sure there's plenty of people from the sc2 scene who would be happy to take the opportunity. Use them. Once you get a quality hype going, people will spread the word and more people will join, volunteers will show up and it can all happen. As it is, people are hesitating to even mention the event because they don't want to be the ones to promote a scam or something that's just not going to happen.
Splitting the tournament into parts and making Moscow happen would be a good step in removing these doubts. But if you want to make it pure BW, you want to make sure Moscow doesn't fail in the first place. Use your money wisely. What seems a waste might actually be crucial for this to happen.
edit: Just read signing up ends november 3rd.. well I guess that makes promotion for Moscow kinda useless. Focus on the next one then I guess :< Make sure there's good footage to use from the event in Moscow.
About 30th person to rip out the event without actually any intent on doing anything about it. I'm already done trying to recover anything for the Brood War community, if this turns out to be a match between all of the brood war players we already know and are in our community, than so be it... I don't care. It's no longer about expansion anymore for me. If you guys want your community to expand, you're free to advertise, do some shenanigans. I have no interest in doing so.
That attitude is exactly the reason why you're bad at this. If you can't take a well-intended, constructive criticism and learn from it, then anything you do is doomed to fail. I know the Brood War community is desperate now to take whatever we can get, but we shouldn't be willing to sacrifice quality to get it.
On October 21 2012 16:19 Stratos wrote: Some thoughts from a discussion with Dollar. Compared to what money you want to invest into this, the promotion of this is ridiculously bad. One ugly picture and a thread full of words and a shitton of FAQ nobody will possibly read. You say you contacted some people (casters?) to help you promote this thing, none of them replied. Wonder why? There's a complex coverage on TL but not once has this been mentioned elsewhere outside this thread. Wonder why?
A lot of people did not have confidence in this at first and there's a reason. If there is something great to come, it should be presented that way. One should be able to tell that the people behind it are serious.
I get it, it's hard to get help from volunteers because not many people had faith in this in the first place = and we're in an endless circle. In my opinion, the easy solution here is to take a small part of the prizepool and just invest it into promotion. Hire someone to make a SIMPLE website, graphics for the thread, some hype vid even, where the organization explains what's going to happen and why. It doesn't have to be top quality, it just has to be something.
I don't know if anything is under construction, but if not, it really needs to happen. Asap. Coupled with the uneasy sign-up process (45 replays, really?), this is hurting the event in so many ways. If the people behind this don't know what needs to be done in terms of PR in the first place, just hire someone to do it all. I'm sure there's plenty of people from the sc2 scene who would be happy to take the opportunity. Use them. Once you get a quality hype going, people will spread the word and more people will join, volunteers will show up and it can all happen. As it is, people are hesitating to even mention the event because they don't want to be the ones to promote a scam or something that's just not going to happen.
Splitting the tournament into parts and making Moscow happen would be a good step in removing these doubts. But if you want to make it pure BW, you want to make sure Moscow doesn't fail in the first place. Use your money wisely. What seems a waste might actually be crucial for this to happen.
edit: Just read signing up ends november 3rd.. well I guess that makes promotion for Moscow kinda useless. Focus on the next one then I guess :< Make sure there's good footage to use from the event in Moscow.
One post that makes more sense than few weeks (months?) of work by one of the best bw tourney's organizer.
*Couple days - I really haven't invested any time into Brood War in the past couple months and I have no interest in increasing this number given the community. Refer to my previous reply to stratos.
and what exactly is so wrong about the best community that esport has ever seen ???
If you have resources to help BW by organizing stuff like this but you dont want to do it then ask someone else to do it.. like Game or somebody idk.. somebody that want and will invest time in this.. you'll still be loved for giving the money and the tournament will be amazing !
Ok, I thought you wanted to do something 'big'. But if you don't have interest, this event won't happen itself. Of course I'm still looking forward to see this series live but i don't expect it will surprise me. Stratos and probably many more people would help if you realized that you need help. I admit that I'm mostly criticising because I personally don't like you but I have more ideas how to help and what to change. Therefore my criticism isn't constructive at all. You chose to make hype before preparations are finished but seems that hype isn't enough thing to encourage people to show interest.
On October 22 2012 00:23 )Messer( wrote: Ok, I thought you wanted to do something 'big'. But if you don't have interest, this event won't happen itself. Of course I'm still looking forward to see this series live but i don't expect it will surprise me. Stratos and probably many more people would help if you realized that you need help. I admit that I'm mostly criticising because I personally don't like you but I have more ideas how to help and what to change. Therefore my criticism isn't constructive at all. You chose to make hype before preparations are finished but seems that hype isn't enough thing to encourage people to show interest.
Sorry for multiple edits
Oh, the whole world can tell who is posting simply because they don't like me just because how the posts are formulated. i.e. You, 2pac, countless others in original thread.
On October 21 2012 16:19 Stratos wrote: Some thoughts from a discussion with Dollar. Compared to what money you want to invest into this, the promotion of this is ridiculously bad. One ugly picture and a thread full of words and a shitton of FAQ nobody will possibly read. You say you contacted some people (casters?) to help you promote this thing, none of them replied. Wonder why? There's a complex coverage on TL but not once has this been mentioned elsewhere outside this thread. Wonder why?
A lot of people did not have confidence in this at first and there's a reason. If there is something great to come, it should be presented that way. One should be able to tell that the people behind it are serious.
I get it, it's hard to get help from volunteers because not many people had faith in this in the first place = and we're in an endless circle. In my opinion, the easy solution here is to take a small part of the prizepool and just invest it into promotion. Hire someone to make a SIMPLE website, graphics for the thread, some hype vid even, where the organization explains what's going to happen and why. It doesn't have to be top quality, it just has to be something.
I don't know if anything is under construction, but if not, it really needs to happen. Asap. Coupled with the uneasy sign-up process (45 replays, really?), this is hurting the event in so many ways. If the people behind this don't know what needs to be done in terms of PR in the first place, just hire someone to do it all. I'm sure there's plenty of people from the sc2 scene who would be happy to take the opportunity. Use them. Once you get a quality hype going, people will spread the word and more people will join, volunteers will show up and it can all happen. As it is, people are hesitating to even mention the event because they don't want to be the ones to promote a scam or something that's just not going to happen.
Splitting the tournament into parts and making Moscow happen would be a good step in removing these doubts. But if you want to make it pure BW, you want to make sure Moscow doesn't fail in the first place. Use your money wisely. What seems a waste might actually be crucial for this to happen.
edit: Just read signing up ends november 3rd.. well I guess that makes promotion for Moscow kinda useless. Focus on the next one then I guess :< Make sure there's good footage to use from the event in Moscow.
One post that makes more sense than few weeks (months?) of work by one of the best bw tourney's organizer.
*Couple days - I really haven't invested any time into Brood War in the past couple months and I have no interest in increasing this number given the community. Refer to my previous reply to stratos.
and what exactly is so wrong about the best community that esport has ever seen ???
If you have resources to help BW by organizing stuff like this but you dont want to do it then ask someone else to do it.. like Game or somebody idk.. somebody that want and will invest time in this.. you'll still be loved for giving the money and the tournament will be amazing !
I'm pretty sure that no one who organizes (or plays) anything would tell you that the current BW community is not anything close to the best esports has ever seen. It's really a shame.
We were discussing the event with Dollar, because we wanted to make it a success in Prague. We thought we found a flaw in the overall design and considered it best to present it to you. This flaw was most certainly holding back people from helping or even paying attention to the event. Why care if it's most likely not going to happen anyway? Should I share with my friends if I don't even know? Should I link people to the thread that looks precisely as a really bad scam would look like?
Should I invest my time to make it better if I don't have any guarantee that it's real?
Personally I didn't even ask myself the last question because I don't consider my editing skills good enough to appropriately present the event the way it should be presented. And yes, if it's an event with that prizepool, it should be well presented.
Whether this flaw worked subconsciously or otherwise, the effect is clear enough. The only way to prove that it's all real was to either get a large enough group of people to work on it together or to show that you have the money by investing some of it beforehand. That's what all the events out there do, and it's for a reason. It won't happen just by saying: Hi folks, we worked really hard, have an unreal amount of money, please help us make this happen (without the please). Actually there is nothing about seeking for help or volunteers in the OP, unless it's hidden in the FAQ.
If you can't work with people, which seems to be the case here (and should not be taken as an insult, but just an observation), you've got to do the latter or leave it to someone more capable in this regard. If you come up with something and say you're going to make it happen, then you either make it happen or lose credibility. At this point, this is something only you can fix. You cannot blame the people for not trusting you. But more importantly, you cannot blame anyone for not donating their time, even if they did trust you. We didn't come up with this event, you did. If you knew you couldn't make it happen on your own, you could've at least said so.
What was actually written in the original thread was: "Ladies and Gentlemen, the Euro 2013 Winter games have arrived. The stage is set, all that remains are the players and fans. This winter, we will be providing you with non-stop Starcraft: Brood War action as we tour the globe seeking out each Nation's finest Starcraft players. This tournament is the first of it's kind since World Cyber Games itself. Also, boasting the second highest recorded prize in foreign Brood War history, it is sure to be a spectacle of special magnificence."
This is not the end of the world though. Moscow can by a trial to see if you can actually make the event run smoothly. If you can, the championship will hopefully regain at least some of the needed credibility. Make sure the event in Moscow is a fucking blast and I'm sure more people will be interested in helping and playing in the next one.
Note - I'm not saying you're a bad person if this whole thing doesn't turn out to be as good as was expected or even if it doesn't happen at all, obviously if your intentions were such as you claim them to be, you're actually an awesome guy. Nonetheless, if you come up with something awesome and present it as a ready project but then can't make it properly happen, you will lose your credibility - if there was any to begin with (I don't really know you so I can't judge). Blaming others now for not stepping up, regardless of the reasons, or saying you don't care will work too.
As the organizer, it is your job to make this as best as possible given the circumstances. I've done my share of organizing shit for others in the past so I know it can will be rough. But if you can't deal with it, then please do consider finding someone else to do it. Pay them using some of the money from the prizepool if you must. I'm sure people will understand. If someone recognizes a flaw and you agree that it is in fact a flaw, you should try to fix it. Or you can give up, that is your call to make. Lastly, to be perfectly clear, the flaws in the presentation of this tournament are nowhere near as important as the organizer saying he doesn't care.
I hope you can somehow get over this criticism and accept it the way it is meant. All I'm saying is that there are things you need to improve if you want the tournament to work better. Since you're the organizer, this is basically the same thing as if I was pointing out flaws on your children. Everyone hates that. Also anyone who ever made/produced/painted/written/organized anything and presented to others for free was disappointed or even angry when others disapproved. I'm also slightly annoyed at you saying I didn't do or intend to do anything for this event - as if I wasn't ever doing anything productive for the scene, you mofo! (). This feeling is only natural, but as an organizer you need to get over it. You can disagree with what I wrote about the PR and its importance and that's fine, it's your tournament. But if you're going to get angry at me and the community instead for not doing anything about it, then you failed as an organizer, because the organizer is supposed to fix the problems. That is the position you put yourself in. I hope you can still fix this. Or let someone else do it. Both options seem better than giving up because you believe a couple of people here don't like you or don't trust you enough etc.
Sorry for the long post but since this is something that could play a huge role for BW in the future, I do believe it is worth taking some time and thinking it through. Please do. It would be a tragedy to let this die just because of a few simple errors and a misunderstanding and giving up instead of facing these. Take a couple of hours or even days and see if you can find some inner spirit and get over the couple of people disliking you or whatever is the underlying issue here. You know I don't know you, I haven't really heard anything about you either and even if I did I wouldn't care unless I actually got to know you myself, so none of the above or my original post was meant to attack your persona in any way. I hope that's clear. I do have a tendency to talk bluntly about the things I don't consider to be flawless, so sorry about that.
On October 21 2012 16:19 Stratos wrote: Some thoughts from a discussion with Dollar. Compared to what money you want to invest into this, the promotion of this is ridiculously bad. One ugly picture and a thread full of words and a shitton of FAQ nobody will possibly read. You say you contacted some people (casters?) to help you promote this thing, none of them replied. Wonder why? There's a complex coverage on TL but not once has this been mentioned elsewhere outside this thread. Wonder why?
A lot of people did not have confidence in this at first and there's a reason. If there is something great to come, it should be presented that way. One should be able to tell that the people behind it are serious.
I get it, it's hard to get help from volunteers because not many people had faith in this in the first place = and we're in an endless circle. In my opinion, the easy solution here is to take a small part of the prizepool and just invest it into promotion. Hire someone to make a SIMPLE website, graphics for the thread, some hype vid even, where the organization explains what's going to happen and why. It doesn't have to be top quality, it just has to be something.
I don't know if anything is under construction, but if not, it really needs to happen. Asap. Coupled with the uneasy sign-up process (45 replays, really?), this is hurting the event in so many ways. If the people behind this don't know what needs to be done in terms of PR in the first place, just hire someone to do it all. I'm sure there's plenty of people from the sc2 scene who would be happy to take the opportunity. Use them. Once you get a quality hype going, people will spread the word and more people will join, volunteers will show up and it can all happen. As it is, people are hesitating to even mention the event because they don't want to be the ones to promote a scam or something that's just not going to happen.
Splitting the tournament into parts and making Moscow happen would be a good step in removing these doubts. But if you want to make it pure BW, you want to make sure Moscow doesn't fail in the first place. Use your money wisely. What seems a waste might actually be crucial for this to happen.
edit: Just read signing up ends november 3rd.. well I guess that makes promotion for Moscow kinda useless. Focus on the next one then I guess :< Make sure there's good footage to use from the event in Moscow.
This.
I actually PM'd Eywa to ask if SC2 personalities that were involved with BW and were invested would be interesting in being a part of this event, but Eywa didn't replay.
I would really like to see this event be a success, but I'm afraid that without the help of people like maybe Day9, Artosis, Tastless (The list goes on) to promote the event in the SC2 community we just can't. Getting just a couple of these people on board would insure a successful event. I know that some people feel like they ''sold out'' , but did they? They stuck with Brood War for many many years. They were invested so much it might be in the past, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't support this. This would be the biggest LAN event in the history of foreign Brood war and these SOME of these guys would surely participate to keep their memory of BW alive or maybe something more!
On October 21 2012 16:19 Stratos wrote: Some thoughts from a discussion with Dollar. Compared to what money you want to invest into this, the promotion of this is ridiculously bad. One ugly picture and a thread full of words and a shitton of FAQ nobody will possibly read. You say you contacted some people (casters?) to help you promote this thing, none of them replied. Wonder why? There's a complex coverage on TL but not once has this been mentioned elsewhere outside this thread. Wonder why?
A lot of people did not have confidence in this at first and there's a reason. If there is something great to come, it should be presented that way. One should be able to tell that the people behind it are serious.
I get it, it's hard to get help from volunteers because not many people had faith in this in the first place = and we're in an endless circle. In my opinion, the easy solution here is to take a small part of the prizepool and just invest it into promotion. Hire someone to make a SIMPLE website, graphics for the thread, some hype vid even, where the organization explains what's going to happen and why. It doesn't have to be top quality, it just has to be something.
I don't know if anything is under construction, but if not, it really needs to happen. Asap. Coupled with the uneasy sign-up process (45 replays, really?), this is hurting the event in so many ways. If the people behind this don't know what needs to be done in terms of PR in the first place, just hire someone to do it all. I'm sure there's plenty of people from the sc2 scene who would be happy to take the opportunity. Use them. Once you get a quality hype going, people will spread the word and more people will join, volunteers will show up and it can all happen. As it is, people are hesitating to even mention the event because they don't want to be the ones to promote a scam or something that's just not going to happen.
Splitting the tournament into parts and making Moscow happen would be a good step in removing these doubts. But if you want to make it pure BW, you want to make sure Moscow doesn't fail in the first place. Use your money wisely. What seems a waste might actually be crucial for this to happen.
edit: Just read signing up ends november 3rd.. well I guess that makes promotion for Moscow kinda useless. Focus on the next one then I guess :< Make sure there's good footage to use from the event in Moscow.
About 30th person to rip out the event without actually any intent on doing anything about it. I'm already done trying to recover anything for the Brood War community, if this turns out to be a match between all of the brood war players we already know and are in our community, than so be it... I don't care. It's no longer about expansion anymore for me. If you guys want your community to expand, you're free to advertise, do some shenanigans. I have no interest in doing so.
What do you expect us to do.
I mean there are people who would on your behalf talk to SC2 personalities to make sure that the event will get advertised, but you can't expect us to do it on our own. You can't expect random people to talk on your behalf and promise something that might not be possible from the organization stand point.
I know that you love BW and you have done a lot for it, BUT I just don't understand you put such a huge effort into this and you aren't willing to take 1 more step that is surely a lot simpler than getting the sponsorship money and such.
We were discussing the event with Dollar, because we wanted to make it a success in Prague. We thought we found a flaw in the overall design and considered it best to present it to you. This flaw was most certainly holding back people from helping or even paying attention to the event. Why care if it's most likely not going to happen anyway? Should I share with my friends if I don't even know? Should I link people to the thread that looks precisely as a really bad scam would look like?
Should I invest my time to make it better if I don't have any guarantee that it's real?
Personally I didn't even ask myself the last question because I don't consider my editing skills good enough to appropriately present the event the way it should be presented. And yes, if it's an event with that prizepool, it should be well presented.
Whether this flaw worked subconsciously or otherwise, the effect is clear enough. The only way to prove that it's all real was to either get a large enough group of people to work on it together or to show that you have the money by investing some of it beforehand. That's what all the events out there do, and it's for a reason. It won't happen just by saying: Hi folks, we worked really hard, have an unreal amount of money, please help us make this happen (without the please). Actually there is nothing about seeking for help or volunteers in the OP, unless it's hidden in the FAQ.
If you can't work with people, which seems to be the case here (and should not be taken as an insult, but just an observation), you've got to do the latter or leave it to someone more capable in this regard. If you come up with something and say you're going to make it happen, then you either make it happen or lose credibility. At this point, this is something only you can fix. You cannot blame the people for not trusting you. But more importantly, you cannot blame anyone for not donating their time, even if they did trust you. We didn't come up with this event, you did. If you knew you couldn't make it happen on your own, you could've at least said so.
What was actually written in the original thread was: "Ladies and Gentlemen, the Euro 2013 Winter games have arrived. The stage is set, all that remains are the players and fans. This winter, we will be providing you with non-stop Starcraft: Brood War action as we tour the globe seeking out each Nation's finest Starcraft players. This tournament is the first of it's kind since World Cyber Games itself. Also, boasting the second highest recorded prize in foreign Brood War history, it is sure to be a spectacle of special magnificence."
This is not the end of the world though. Moscow can by a trial to see if you can actually make the event run smoothly. If you can, the championship will hopefully regain at least some of the needed credibility. Make sure the event in Moscow is a fucking blast and I'm sure more people will be interested in helping and playing in the next one.
Note - I'm not saying you're a bad person if this whole thing doesn't turn out to be as good as was expected or even if it doesn't happen at all, obviously if your intentions were such as you claim them to be, you're actually an awesome guy. Nonetheless, if you come up with something awesome and present it as a ready project but then can't make it properly happen, you will lose your credibility - if there was any to begin with (I don't really know you so I can't judge). Blaming others now for not stepping up, regardless of the reasons, or saying you don't care will work too.
As the organizer, it is your job to make this as best as possible given the circumstances. I've done my share of organizing shit for others in the past so I know it can will be rough. But if you can't deal with it, then please do consider finding someone else to do it. Pay them using some of the money from the prizepool if you must. I'm sure people will understand. If someone recognizes a flaw and you agree that it is in fact a flaw, you should try to fix it. Or you can give up, that is your call to make. Lastly, to be perfectly clear, the flaws in the presentation of this tournament are nowhere near as important as the organizer saying he doesn't care.
I hope you can somehow get over this criticism and accept it the way it is meant. All I'm saying is that there are things you need to improve if you want the tournament to work better. Since you're the organizer, this is basically the same thing as if I was pointing out flaws on your children. Everyone hates that. Also anyone who ever made/produced/painted/written/organized anything and presented to others for free was disappointed or even angry when others disapproved. I'm also slightly annoyed at you saying I didn't do or intend to do anything for this event - as if I wasn't ever doing anything productive for the scene, you mofo! (). This feeling is only natural, but as an organizer you need to get over it. You can disagree with what I wrote about the PR and its importance and that's fine, it's your tournament. But if you're going to get angry at me and the community instead for not doing anything about it, then you failed as an organizer, because the organizer is supposed to fix the problems. That is the position you put yourself in. I hope you can still fix this. Or let someone else do it. Both options seem better than giving up because you believe a couple of people here don't like you or don't trust you enough etc.
Sorry for the long post but since this is something that could play a huge role for BW in the future, I do believe it is worth taking some time and thinking it through. Please do. It would be a tragedy to let this die just because of a few simple errors and a misunderstanding and giving up instead of facing these. Take a couple of hours or even days and see if you can find some inner spirit and get over the couple of people disliking you or whatever is the underlying issue here. You know I don't know you, I haven't really heard anything about you either and even if I did I wouldn't care unless I actually got to know you myself, so none of the above or my original post was meant to attack your persona in any way. I hope that's clear. I do have a tendency to talk bluntly about the things I don't consider to be flawless, so sorry about that.
And to be frank you did advertise the LAN a bit in one of your vids.
I am a 100% okay with money being taken away from the prize pool to get money for graphics, advertisement etc etc.
On October 21 2012 16:19 Stratos wrote: Some thoughts from a discussion with Dollar. Compared to what money you want to invest into this, the promotion of this is ridiculously bad. One ugly picture and a thread full of words and a shitton of FAQ nobody will possibly read. You say you contacted some people (casters?) to help you promote this thing, none of them replied. Wonder why? There's a complex coverage on TL but not once has this been mentioned elsewhere outside this thread. Wonder why?
A lot of people did not have confidence in this at first and there's a reason. If there is something great to come, it should be presented that way. One should be able to tell that the people behind it are serious.
I get it, it's hard to get help from volunteers because not many people had faith in this in the first place = and we're in an endless circle. In my opinion, the easy solution here is to take a small part of the prizepool and just invest it into promotion. Hire someone to make a SIMPLE website, graphics for the thread, some hype vid even, where the organization explains what's going to happen and why. It doesn't have to be top quality, it just has to be something.
I don't know if anything is under construction, but if not, it really needs to happen. Asap. Coupled with the uneasy sign-up process (45 replays, really?), this is hurting the event in so many ways. If the people behind this don't know what needs to be done in terms of PR in the first place, just hire someone to do it all. I'm sure there's plenty of people from the sc2 scene who would be happy to take the opportunity. Use them. Once you get a quality hype going, people will spread the word and more people will join, volunteers will show up and it can all happen. As it is, people are hesitating to even mention the event because they don't want to be the ones to promote a scam or something that's just not going to happen.
Splitting the tournament into parts and making Moscow happen would be a good step in removing these doubts. But if you want to make it pure BW, you want to make sure Moscow doesn't fail in the first place. Use your money wisely. What seems a waste might actually be crucial for this to happen.
edit: Just read signing up ends november 3rd.. well I guess that makes promotion for Moscow kinda useless. Focus on the next one then I guess :< Make sure there's good footage to use from the event in Moscow.
This.
I actually PM'd Eywa to ask if SC2 personalities that were involved with BW and were invested would be interesting in being a part of this event, but Eywa didn't replay.
I would really like to see this event be a success, but I'm afraid that without the help of people like maybe Day9, Artosis, Tastless (The list goes on) to promote the event in the SC2 community we just can't. Getting just a couple of these people on board would insure a successful event. I know that some people feel like they ''sold out'' , but did they? They stuck with Brood War for many many years. They were invested so much it might be in the past, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't support this. This would be the biggest LAN event in the history of foreign Brood war and these SOME of these guys would surely participate to keep their memory of BW alive or maybe something more!
I apologize for the lack of a reply, I had every intention of replying to it and it is that I have already tried to contact countless figures from SC2, it doesn't work. None of the have interest and/or can't work for Brood War atm for whatever reason. I've tried for many different events.
On October 21 2012 16:19 Stratos wrote: Some thoughts from a discussion with Dollar. Compared to what money you want to invest into this, the promotion of this is ridiculously bad. One ugly picture and a thread full of words and a shitton of FAQ nobody will possibly read. You say you contacted some people (casters?) to help you promote this thing, none of them replied. Wonder why? There's a complex coverage on TL but not once has this been mentioned elsewhere outside this thread. Wonder why?
A lot of people did not have confidence in this at first and there's a reason. If there is something great to come, it should be presented that way. One should be able to tell that the people behind it are serious.
I get it, it's hard to get help from volunteers because not many people had faith in this in the first place = and we're in an endless circle. In my opinion, the easy solution here is to take a small part of the prizepool and just invest it into promotion. Hire someone to make a SIMPLE website, graphics for the thread, some hype vid even, where the organization explains what's going to happen and why. It doesn't have to be top quality, it just has to be something.
I don't know if anything is under construction, but if not, it really needs to happen. Asap. Coupled with the uneasy sign-up process (45 replays, really?), this is hurting the event in so many ways. If the people behind this don't know what needs to be done in terms of PR in the first place, just hire someone to do it all. I'm sure there's plenty of people from the sc2 scene who would be happy to take the opportunity. Use them. Once you get a quality hype going, people will spread the word and more people will join, volunteers will show up and it can all happen. As it is, people are hesitating to even mention the event because they don't want to be the ones to promote a scam or something that's just not going to happen.
Splitting the tournament into parts and making Moscow happen would be a good step in removing these doubts. But if you want to make it pure BW, you want to make sure Moscow doesn't fail in the first place. Use your money wisely. What seems a waste might actually be crucial for this to happen.
edit: Just read signing up ends november 3rd.. well I guess that makes promotion for Moscow kinda useless. Focus on the next one then I guess :< Make sure there's good footage to use from the event in Moscow.
This.
I actually PM'd Eywa to ask if SC2 personalities that were involved with BW and were invested would be interesting in being a part of this event, but Eywa didn't replay.
I would really like to see this event be a success, but I'm afraid that without the help of people like maybe Day9, Artosis, Tastless (The list goes on) to promote the event in the SC2 community we just can't. Getting just a couple of these people on board would insure a successful event. I know that some people feel like they ''sold out'' , but did they? They stuck with Brood War for many many years. They were invested so much it might be in the past, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't support this. This would be the biggest LAN event in the history of foreign Brood war and these SOME of these guys would surely participate to keep their memory of BW alive or maybe something more!
I apologize for the lack of a reply, I had every intention of replying to it and it is that I have already tried to contact countless figures from SC2, it doesn't work. None of the have interest and/or can't work for Brood War atm for whatever reason. I've tried for many different events.
Because helping BW grow = killing SC2.
And SC2 being job, that's like asking to get fired.
On October 22 2012 02:34 Stratos wrote: We were discussing the event with Dollar, because we wanted to make it a success in Prague. We thought we found a flaw in the overall design and considered it best to present it to you. This flaw was most certainly holding back people from helping or even paying attention to the event. Why care if it's most likely not going to happen anyway? Should I share with my friends if I don't even know? Should I link people to the thread that looks precisely as a really bad scam would look like?
Should I invest my time to make it better if I don't have any guarantee that it's real?
Personally I didn't even ask myself the last question because I don't consider my editing skills good enough to appropriately present the event the way it should be presented. And yes, if it's an event with that prizepool, it should be well presented.
Whether this flaw worked subconsciously or otherwise, the effect is clear enough. The only way to prove that it's all real was to either get a large enough group of people to work on it together or to show that you have the money by investing some of it beforehand. That's what all the events out there do, and it's for a reason. It won't happen just by saying: Hi folks, we worked really hard, have an unreal amount of money, please help us make this happen (without the please). Actually there is nothing about seeking for help or volunteers in the OP, unless it's hidden in the FAQ.
If you can't work with people, which seems to be the case here (and should not be taken as an insult, but just an observation), you've got to do the latter or leave it to someone more capable in this regard. If you come up with something and say you're going to make it happen, then you either make it happen or lose credibility. At this point, this is something only you can fix. You cannot blame the people for not trusting you. But more importantly, you cannot blame anyone for not donating their time, even if they did trust you. We didn't come up with this event, you did. If you knew you couldn't make it happen on your own, you could've at least said so.
What was actually written in the original thread was: "Ladies and Gentlemen, the Euro 2013 Winter games have arrived. The stage is set, all that remains are the players and fans. This winter, we will be providing you with non-stop Starcraft: Brood War action as we tour the globe seeking out each Nation's finest Starcraft players. This tournament is the first of it's kind since World Cyber Games itself. Also, boasting the second highest recorded prize in foreign Brood War history, it is sure to be a spectacle of special magnificence."
This is not the end of the world though. Moscow can by a trial to see if you can actually make the event run smoothly. If you can, the championship will hopefully regain at least some of the needed credibility. Make sure the event in Moscow is a fucking blast and I'm sure more people will be interested in helping and playing in the next one.
Note - I'm not saying you're a bad person if this whole thing doesn't turn out to be as good as was expected or even if it doesn't happen at all, obviously if your intentions were such as you claim them to be, you're actually an awesome guy. Nonetheless, if you come up with something awesome and present it as a ready project but then can't make it properly happen, you will lose your credibility - if there was any to begin with (I don't really know you so I can't judge). Blaming others now for not stepping up, regardless of the reasons, or saying you don't care will work too.
As the organizer, it is your job to make this as best as possible given the circumstances. I've done my share of organizing shit for others in the past so I know it can will be rough. But if you can't deal with it, then please do consider finding someone else to do it. Pay them using some of the money from the prizepool if you must. I'm sure people will understand. If someone recognizes a flaw and you agree that it is in fact a flaw, you should try to fix it. Or you can give up, that is your call to make. Lastly, to be perfectly clear, the flaws in the presentation of this tournament are nowhere near as important as the organizer saying he doesn't care.
I hope you can somehow get over this criticism and accept it the way it is meant. All I'm saying is that there are things you need to improve if you want the tournament to work better. Since you're the organizer, this is basically the same thing as if I was pointing out flaws on your children. Everyone hates that. Also anyone who ever made/produced/painted/written/organized anything and presented to others for free was disappointed or even angry when others disapproved. I'm also slightly annoyed at you saying I didn't do or intend to do anything for this event - as if I wasn't ever doing anything productive for the scene, you mofo! (). This feeling is only natural, but as an organizer you need to get over it. You can disagree with what I wrote about the PR and its importance and that's fine, it's your tournament. But if you're going to get angry at me and the community instead for not doing anything about it, then you failed as an organizer, because the organizer is supposed to fix the problems. That is the position you put yourself in. I hope you can still fix this. Or let someone else do it. Both options seem better than giving up because you believe a couple of people here don't like you or don't trust you enough etc.
Sorry for the long post but since this is something that could play a huge role for BW in the future, I do believe it is worth taking some time and thinking it through. Please do. It would be a tragedy to let this die just because of a few simple errors and a misunderstanding and giving up instead of facing these. Take a couple of hours or even days and see if you can find some inner spirit and get over the couple of people disliking you or whatever is the underlying issue here. You know I don't know you, I haven't really heard anything about you either and even if I did I wouldn't care unless I actually got to know you myself, so none of the above or my original post was meant to attack your persona in any way. I hope that's clear. I do have a tendency to talk bluntly about the things I don't consider to be flawless, so sorry about that.
Since we're about giving criticism, I'll give you a couple then comment on your criticism for me.
1) Have you seen the post history in both threads? The amount of flame to criticism ratio is quite off balance. It's true that this is from a certain few, which I don't get mad at because I know they either are just trolls with nothing better to do or they actually somehow don't understand anything. In either case, I can get by just by considering their situation. However, that the community backs up flamers and lists them as valid criticism is unbelievable. Given that there's a noticeable distinction between posts from people who hate me and the rest (gecko, nina, messer, 2pac)... I don't know how you guys don't pick up on this and discourage.
2) This point also takes into consideration the first. In order to provide constructive criticism, it has to be given privately, as soon as you open it up to a public discussion thread it's no longer a friendly conversation because of how people build off of it.
Otherwise I agree with a lot of your criticism, the event is not developed because I stopped doing stuff for Brood War mainly because of Gambit's Cup. As far as working with people, the only thing that came up was translators which can be found anywhere and everywhere. It's not what the event needs right now (so I apologize if it comes across as I can't work with people --- Which also should obviously not be the case given that I've worked plenty with Game, nOoNe and a few others).
On another note, I will start up full swing again for Gambit's Cup Round 2 and for these events to make them the best they possibly can be. However, I won't be doing anything for Brood War afterwards
On October 22 2012 02:34 Stratos wrote: We were discussing the event with Dollar, because we wanted to make it a success in Prague. We thought we found a flaw in the overall design and considered it best to present it to you. This flaw was most certainly holding back people from helping or even paying attention to the event. Why care if it's most likely not going to happen anyway? Should I share with my friends if I don't even know? Should I link people to the thread that looks precisely as a really bad scam would look like?
Should I invest my time to make it better if I don't have any guarantee that it's real?
Personally I didn't even ask myself the last question because I don't consider my editing skills good enough to appropriately present the event the way it should be presented. And yes, if it's an event with that prizepool, it should be well presented.
Whether this flaw worked subconsciously or otherwise, the effect is clear enough. The only way to prove that it's all real was to either get a large enough group of people to work on it together or to show that you have the money by investing some of it beforehand. That's what all the events out there do, and it's for a reason. It won't happen just by saying: Hi folks, we worked really hard, have an unreal amount of money, please help us make this happen (without the please). Actually there is nothing about seeking for help or volunteers in the OP, unless it's hidden in the FAQ.
If you can't work with people, which seems to be the case here (and should not be taken as an insult, but just an observation), you've got to do the latter or leave it to someone more capable in this regard. If you come up with something and say you're going to make it happen, then you either make it happen or lose credibility. At this point, this is something only you can fix. You cannot blame the people for not trusting you. But more importantly, you cannot blame anyone for not donating their time, even if they did trust you. We didn't come up with this event, you did. If you knew you couldn't make it happen on your own, you could've at least said so.
What was actually written in the original thread was: "Ladies and Gentlemen, the Euro 2013 Winter games have arrived. The stage is set, all that remains are the players and fans. This winter, we will be providing you with non-stop Starcraft: Brood War action as we tour the globe seeking out each Nation's finest Starcraft players. This tournament is the first of it's kind since World Cyber Games itself. Also, boasting the second highest recorded prize in foreign Brood War history, it is sure to be a spectacle of special magnificence."
This is not the end of the world though. Moscow can by a trial to see if you can actually make the event run smoothly. If you can, the championship will hopefully regain at least some of the needed credibility. Make sure the event in Moscow is a fucking blast and I'm sure more people will be interested in helping and playing in the next one.
Note - I'm not saying you're a bad person if this whole thing doesn't turn out to be as good as was expected or even if it doesn't happen at all, obviously if your intentions were such as you claim them to be, you're actually an awesome guy. Nonetheless, if you come up with something awesome and present it as a ready project but then can't make it properly happen, you will lose your credibility - if there was any to begin with (I don't really know you so I can't judge). Blaming others now for not stepping up, regardless of the reasons, or saying you don't care will work too.
As the organizer, it is your job to make this as best as possible given the circumstances. I've done my share of organizing shit for others in the past so I know it can will be rough. But if you can't deal with it, then please do consider finding someone else to do it. Pay them using some of the money from the prizepool if you must. I'm sure people will understand. If someone recognizes a flaw and you agree that it is in fact a flaw, you should try to fix it. Or you can give up, that is your call to make. Lastly, to be perfectly clear, the flaws in the presentation of this tournament are nowhere near as important as the organizer saying he doesn't care.
I hope you can somehow get over this criticism and accept it the way it is meant. All I'm saying is that there are things you need to improve if you want the tournament to work better. Since you're the organizer, this is basically the same thing as if I was pointing out flaws on your children. Everyone hates that. Also anyone who ever made/produced/painted/written/organized anything and presented to others for free was disappointed or even angry when others disapproved. I'm also slightly annoyed at you saying I didn't do or intend to do anything for this event - as if I wasn't ever doing anything productive for the scene, you mofo! (). This feeling is only natural, but as an organizer you need to get over it. You can disagree with what I wrote about the PR and its importance and that's fine, it's your tournament. But if you're going to get angry at me and the community instead for not doing anything about it, then you failed as an organizer, because the organizer is supposed to fix the problems. That is the position you put yourself in. I hope you can still fix this. Or let someone else do it. Both options seem better than giving up because you believe a couple of people here don't like you or don't trust you enough etc.
Sorry for the long post but since this is something that could play a huge role for BW in the future, I do believe it is worth taking some time and thinking it through. Please do. It would be a tragedy to let this die just because of a few simple errors and a misunderstanding and giving up instead of facing these. Take a couple of hours or even days and see if you can find some inner spirit and get over the couple of people disliking you or whatever is the underlying issue here. You know I don't know you, I haven't really heard anything about you either and even if I did I wouldn't care unless I actually got to know you myself, so none of the above or my original post was meant to attack your persona in any way. I hope that's clear. I do have a tendency to talk bluntly about the things I don't consider to be flawless, so sorry about that.
Since we're about giving criticism, I'll give you a couple then comment on your criticism for me.
1) Have you seen the post history in both threads? The amount of flame to criticism ratio is quite off balance. It's true that this is from a certain few, which I don't get mad at because I know they either are just trolls with nothing better to do or they actually somehow don't understand anything. In either case, I can get by just by considering their situation. However, that the community backs up flamers and lists them as valid criticism is unbelievable. Given that there's a noticeable distinction between posts from people who hate me and the rest (gecko, nina, messer, 2pac)... I don't know how you guys don't pick up on this and discourage.
2) This point also takes into consideration the first. In order to provide constructive criticism, it has to be given privately, as soon as you open it up to a public discussion thread it's no longer a friendly conversation because of how people build off of it.
Otherwise I agree with a lot of your criticism, the event is not developed because I stopped doing stuff for Brood War mainly because of Gambit's Cup. As far as working with people, the only thing that came up was translators which can be found anywhere and everywhere. It's not what the event needs right now (so I apologize if it comes across as I can't work with people --- Which also should obviously not be the case given that I've worked plenty with Game, nOoNe and a few others).
On another note, I will start up full swing again for Gambit's Cup Round 2 and for these events to make them the best they possibly can be. However, I won't be doing anything for Brood War afterwards
The guy gives you a page of ways to improve it, and then he offers to help if you're interested. You guys should just already get this going instead of arguing about the same thing of getting this event going more smoothly since this is the most money for a foreign BW event.
On October 22 2012 02:34 Stratos wrote: We were discussing the event with Dollar, because we wanted to make it a success in Prague. We thought we found a flaw in the overall design and considered it best to present it to you. This flaw was most certainly holding back people from helping or even paying attention to the event. Why care if it's most likely not going to happen anyway? Should I share with my friends if I don't even know? Should I link people to the thread that looks precisely as a really bad scam would look like?
Should I invest my time to make it better if I don't have any guarantee that it's real?
Personally I didn't even ask myself the last question because I don't consider my editing skills good enough to appropriately present the event the way it should be presented. And yes, if it's an event with that prizepool, it should be well presented.
Whether this flaw worked subconsciously or otherwise, the effect is clear enough. The only way to prove that it's all real was to either get a large enough group of people to work on it together or to show that you have the money by investing some of it beforehand. That's what all the events out there do, and it's for a reason. It won't happen just by saying: Hi folks, we worked really hard, have an unreal amount of money, please help us make this happen (without the please). Actually there is nothing about seeking for help or volunteers in the OP, unless it's hidden in the FAQ.
If you can't work with people, which seems to be the case here (and should not be taken as an insult, but just an observation), you've got to do the latter or leave it to someone more capable in this regard. If you come up with something and say you're going to make it happen, then you either make it happen or lose credibility. At this point, this is something only you can fix. You cannot blame the people for not trusting you. But more importantly, you cannot blame anyone for not donating their time, even if they did trust you. We didn't come up with this event, you did. If you knew you couldn't make it happen on your own, you could've at least said so.
What was actually written in the original thread was: "Ladies and Gentlemen, the Euro 2013 Winter games have arrived. The stage is set, all that remains are the players and fans. This winter, we will be providing you with non-stop Starcraft: Brood War action as we tour the globe seeking out each Nation's finest Starcraft players. This tournament is the first of it's kind since World Cyber Games itself. Also, boasting the second highest recorded prize in foreign Brood War history, it is sure to be a spectacle of special magnificence."
This is not the end of the world though. Moscow can by a trial to see if you can actually make the event run smoothly. If you can, the championship will hopefully regain at least some of the needed credibility. Make sure the event in Moscow is a fucking blast and I'm sure more people will be interested in helping and playing in the next one.
Note - I'm not saying you're a bad person if this whole thing doesn't turn out to be as good as was expected or even if it doesn't happen at all, obviously if your intentions were such as you claim them to be, you're actually an awesome guy. Nonetheless, if you come up with something awesome and present it as a ready project but then can't make it properly happen, you will lose your credibility - if there was any to begin with (I don't really know you so I can't judge). Blaming others now for not stepping up, regardless of the reasons, or saying you don't care will work too.
As the organizer, it is your job to make this as best as possible given the circumstances. I've done my share of organizing shit for others in the past so I know it can will be rough. But if you can't deal with it, then please do consider finding someone else to do it. Pay them using some of the money from the prizepool if you must. I'm sure people will understand. If someone recognizes a flaw and you agree that it is in fact a flaw, you should try to fix it. Or you can give up, that is your call to make. Lastly, to be perfectly clear, the flaws in the presentation of this tournament are nowhere near as important as the organizer saying he doesn't care.
I hope you can somehow get over this criticism and accept it the way it is meant. All I'm saying is that there are things you need to improve if you want the tournament to work better. Since you're the organizer, this is basically the same thing as if I was pointing out flaws on your children. Everyone hates that. Also anyone who ever made/produced/painted/written/organized anything and presented to others for free was disappointed or even angry when others disapproved. I'm also slightly annoyed at you saying I didn't do or intend to do anything for this event - as if I wasn't ever doing anything productive for the scene, you mofo! (). This feeling is only natural, but as an organizer you need to get over it. You can disagree with what I wrote about the PR and its importance and that's fine, it's your tournament. But if you're going to get angry at me and the community instead for not doing anything about it, then you failed as an organizer, because the organizer is supposed to fix the problems. That is the position you put yourself in. I hope you can still fix this. Or let someone else do it. Both options seem better than giving up because you believe a couple of people here don't like you or don't trust you enough etc.
Sorry for the long post but since this is something that could play a huge role for BW in the future, I do believe it is worth taking some time and thinking it through. Please do. It would be a tragedy to let this die just because of a few simple errors and a misunderstanding and giving up instead of facing these. Take a couple of hours or even days and see if you can find some inner spirit and get over the couple of people disliking you or whatever is the underlying issue here. You know I don't know you, I haven't really heard anything about you either and even if I did I wouldn't care unless I actually got to know you myself, so none of the above or my original post was meant to attack your persona in any way. I hope that's clear. I do have a tendency to talk bluntly about the things I don't consider to be flawless, so sorry about that.
Since we're about giving criticism, I'll give you a couple then comment on your criticism for me.
1) Have you seen the post history in both threads? The amount of flame to criticism ratio is quite off balance. It's true that this is from a certain few, which I don't get mad at because I know they either are just trolls with nothing better to do or they actually somehow don't understand anything. In either case, I can get by just by considering their situation. However, that the community backs up flamers and lists them as valid criticism is unbelievable. Given that there's a noticeable distinction between posts from people who hate me and the rest (gecko, nina, messer, 2pac)... I don't know how you guys don't pick up on this and discourage.
2) This point also takes into consideration the first. In order to provide constructive criticism, it has to be given privately, as soon as you open it up to a public discussion thread it's no longer a friendly conversation because of how people build off of it.
Otherwise I agree with a lot of your criticism, the event is not developed because I stopped doing stuff for Brood War mainly because of Gambit's Cup. As far as working with people, the only thing that came up was translators which can be found anywhere and everywhere. It's not what the event needs right now (so I apologize if it comes across as I can't work with people --- Which also should obviously not be the case given that I've worked plenty with Game, nOoNe and a few others).
On another note, I will start up full swing again for Gambit's Cup Round 2 and for these events to make them the best they possibly can be. However, I won't be doing anything for Brood War afterwards
The guy gives you a page of ways to improve it, and then he offers to help if you're interested. You guys should just already get this going instead of arguing about the same thing of getting this event going more smoothly since this is the most money for a foreign BW event.
On another note, I will start up full swing again for Gambit's Cup Round 2 and for these events to make them the best they possibly can be.
On October 22 2012 02:34 Stratos wrote: We were discussing the event with Dollar, because we wanted to make it a success in Prague. We thought we found a flaw in the overall design and considered it best to present it to you. This flaw was most certainly holding back people from helping or even paying attention to the event. Why care if it's most likely not going to happen anyway? Should I share with my friends if I don't even know? Should I link people to the thread that looks precisely as a really bad scam would look like?
Should I invest my time to make it better if I don't have any guarantee that it's real?
Personally I didn't even ask myself the last question because I don't consider my editing skills good enough to appropriately present the event the way it should be presented. And yes, if it's an event with that prizepool, it should be well presented.
Whether this flaw worked subconsciously or otherwise, the effect is clear enough. The only way to prove that it's all real was to either get a large enough group of people to work on it together or to show that you have the money by investing some of it beforehand. That's what all the events out there do, and it's for a reason. It won't happen just by saying: Hi folks, we worked really hard, have an unreal amount of money, please help us make this happen (without the please). Actually there is nothing about seeking for help or volunteers in the OP, unless it's hidden in the FAQ.
If you can't work with people, which seems to be the case here (and should not be taken as an insult, but just an observation), you've got to do the latter or leave it to someone more capable in this regard. If you come up with something and say you're going to make it happen, then you either make it happen or lose credibility. At this point, this is something only you can fix. You cannot blame the people for not trusting you. But more importantly, you cannot blame anyone for not donating their time, even if they did trust you. We didn't come up with this event, you did. If you knew you couldn't make it happen on your own, you could've at least said so.
What was actually written in the original thread was: "Ladies and Gentlemen, the Euro 2013 Winter games have arrived. The stage is set, all that remains are the players and fans. This winter, we will be providing you with non-stop Starcraft: Brood War action as we tour the globe seeking out each Nation's finest Starcraft players. This tournament is the first of it's kind since World Cyber Games itself. Also, boasting the second highest recorded prize in foreign Brood War history, it is sure to be a spectacle of special magnificence."
This is not the end of the world though. Moscow can by a trial to see if you can actually make the event run smoothly. If you can, the championship will hopefully regain at least some of the needed credibility. Make sure the event in Moscow is a fucking blast and I'm sure more people will be interested in helping and playing in the next one.
Note - I'm not saying you're a bad person if this whole thing doesn't turn out to be as good as was expected or even if it doesn't happen at all, obviously if your intentions were such as you claim them to be, you're actually an awesome guy. Nonetheless, if you come up with something awesome and present it as a ready project but then can't make it properly happen, you will lose your credibility - if there was any to begin with (I don't really know you so I can't judge). Blaming others now for not stepping up, regardless of the reasons, or saying you don't care will work too.
As the organizer, it is your job to make this as best as possible given the circumstances. I've done my share of organizing shit for others in the past so I know it can will be rough. But if you can't deal with it, then please do consider finding someone else to do it. Pay them using some of the money from the prizepool if you must. I'm sure people will understand. If someone recognizes a flaw and you agree that it is in fact a flaw, you should try to fix it. Or you can give up, that is your call to make. Lastly, to be perfectly clear, the flaws in the presentation of this tournament are nowhere near as important as the organizer saying he doesn't care.
I hope you can somehow get over this criticism and accept it the way it is meant. All I'm saying is that there are things you need to improve if you want the tournament to work better. Since you're the organizer, this is basically the same thing as if I was pointing out flaws on your children. Everyone hates that. Also anyone who ever made/produced/painted/written/organized anything and presented to others for free was disappointed or even angry when others disapproved. I'm also slightly annoyed at you saying I didn't do or intend to do anything for this event - as if I wasn't ever doing anything productive for the scene, you mofo! (). This feeling is only natural, but as an organizer you need to get over it. You can disagree with what I wrote about the PR and its importance and that's fine, it's your tournament. But if you're going to get angry at me and the community instead for not doing anything about it, then you failed as an organizer, because the organizer is supposed to fix the problems. That is the position you put yourself in. I hope you can still fix this. Or let someone else do it. Both options seem better than giving up because you believe a couple of people here don't like you or don't trust you enough etc.
Sorry for the long post but since this is something that could play a huge role for BW in the future, I do believe it is worth taking some time and thinking it through. Please do. It would be a tragedy to let this die just because of a few simple errors and a misunderstanding and giving up instead of facing these. Take a couple of hours or even days and see if you can find some inner spirit and get over the couple of people disliking you or whatever is the underlying issue here. You know I don't know you, I haven't really heard anything about you either and even if I did I wouldn't care unless I actually got to know you myself, so none of the above or my original post was meant to attack your persona in any way. I hope that's clear. I do have a tendency to talk bluntly about the things I don't consider to be flawless, so sorry about that.
Since we're about giving criticism, I'll give you a couple then comment on your criticism for me.
1) Have you seen the post history in both threads? The amount of flame to criticism ratio is quite off balance. It's true that this is from a certain few, which I don't get mad at because I know they either are just trolls with nothing better to do or they actually somehow don't understand anything. In either case, I can get by just by considering their situation. However, that the community backs up flamers and lists them as valid criticism is unbelievable. Given that there's a noticeable distinction between posts from people who hate me and the rest (gecko, nina, messer, 2pac)... I don't know how you guys don't pick up on this and discourage.
2) This point also takes into consideration the first. In order to provide constructive criticism, it has to be given privately, as soon as you open it up to a public discussion thread it's no longer a friendly conversation because of how people build off of it.
Otherwise I agree with a lot of your criticism, the event is not developed because I stopped doing stuff for Brood War mainly because of Gambit's Cup. As far as working with people, the only thing that came up was translators which can be found anywhere and everywhere. It's not what the event needs right now (so I apologize if it comes across as I can't work with people --- Which also should obviously not be the case given that I've worked plenty with Game, nOoNe and a few others).
On another note, I will start up full swing again for Gambit's Cup Round 2 and for these events to make them the best they possibly can be. However, I won't be doing anything for Brood War afterwards
The guy gives you a page of ways to improve it, and then he offers to help if you're interested. You guys should just already get this going instead of arguing about the same thing of getting this event going more smoothly since this is the most money for a foreign BW event.
On another note, I will start up full swing again for Gambit's Cup Round 2 and for these events to make them the best they possibly can be.
I'm pretty confident you just don't read english.
I see the bold, I will believe it when I see an actual attempt at it. Also, they have offered their help so you can at least use that...
On October 22 2012 12:31 Pucca wrote: What does "swing" mean?
everything will be running smoothly, updates and all.
On October 22 2012 02:34 Stratos wrote: We were discussing the event with Dollar, because we wanted to make it a success in Prague. We thought we found a flaw in the overall design and considered it best to present it to you. This flaw was most certainly holding back people from helping or even paying attention to the event. Why care if it's most likely not going to happen anyway? Should I share with my friends if I don't even know? Should I link people to the thread that looks precisely as a really bad scam would look like?
Should I invest my time to make it better if I don't have any guarantee that it's real?
Personally I didn't even ask myself the last question because I don't consider my editing skills good enough to appropriately present the event the way it should be presented. And yes, if it's an event with that prizepool, it should be well presented.
Whether this flaw worked subconsciously or otherwise, the effect is clear enough. The only way to prove that it's all real was to either get a large enough group of people to work on it together or to show that you have the money by investing some of it beforehand. That's what all the events out there do, and it's for a reason. It won't happen just by saying: Hi folks, we worked really hard, have an unreal amount of money, please help us make this happen (without the please). Actually there is nothing about seeking for help or volunteers in the OP, unless it's hidden in the FAQ.
If you can't work with people, which seems to be the case here (and should not be taken as an insult, but just an observation), you've got to do the latter or leave it to someone more capable in this regard. If you come up with something and say you're going to make it happen, then you either make it happen or lose credibility. At this point, this is something only you can fix. You cannot blame the people for not trusting you. But more importantly, you cannot blame anyone for not donating their time, even if they did trust you. We didn't come up with this event, you did. If you knew you couldn't make it happen on your own, you could've at least said so.
What was actually written in the original thread was: "Ladies and Gentlemen, the Euro 2013 Winter games have arrived. The stage is set, all that remains are the players and fans. This winter, we will be providing you with non-stop Starcraft: Brood War action as we tour the globe seeking out each Nation's finest Starcraft players. This tournament is the first of it's kind since World Cyber Games itself. Also, boasting the second highest recorded prize in foreign Brood War history, it is sure to be a spectacle of special magnificence."
This is not the end of the world though. Moscow can by a trial to see if you can actually make the event run smoothly. If you can, the championship will hopefully regain at least some of the needed credibility. Make sure the event in Moscow is a fucking blast and I'm sure more people will be interested in helping and playing in the next one.
Note - I'm not saying you're a bad person if this whole thing doesn't turn out to be as good as was expected or even if it doesn't happen at all, obviously if your intentions were such as you claim them to be, you're actually an awesome guy. Nonetheless, if you come up with something awesome and present it as a ready project but then can't make it properly happen, you will lose your credibility - if there was any to begin with (I don't really know you so I can't judge). Blaming others now for not stepping up, regardless of the reasons, or saying you don't care will work too.
As the organizer, it is your job to make this as best as possible given the circumstances. I've done my share of organizing shit for others in the past so I know it can will be rough. But if you can't deal with it, then please do consider finding someone else to do it. Pay them using some of the money from the prizepool if you must. I'm sure people will understand. If someone recognizes a flaw and you agree that it is in fact a flaw, you should try to fix it. Or you can give up, that is your call to make. Lastly, to be perfectly clear, the flaws in the presentation of this tournament are nowhere near as important as the organizer saying he doesn't care.
I hope you can somehow get over this criticism and accept it the way it is meant. All I'm saying is that there are things you need to improve if you want the tournament to work better. Since you're the organizer, this is basically the same thing as if I was pointing out flaws on your children. Everyone hates that. Also anyone who ever made/produced/painted/written/organized anything and presented to others for free was disappointed or even angry when others disapproved. I'm also slightly annoyed at you saying I didn't do or intend to do anything for this event - as if I wasn't ever doing anything productive for the scene, you mofo! (). This feeling is only natural, but as an organizer you need to get over it. You can disagree with what I wrote about the PR and its importance and that's fine, it's your tournament. But if you're going to get angry at me and the community instead for not doing anything about it, then you failed as an organizer, because the organizer is supposed to fix the problems. That is the position you put yourself in. I hope you can still fix this. Or let someone else do it. Both options seem better than giving up because you believe a couple of people here don't like you or don't trust you enough etc.
Sorry for the long post but since this is something that could play a huge role for BW in the future, I do believe it is worth taking some time and thinking it through. Please do. It would be a tragedy to let this die just because of a few simple errors and a misunderstanding and giving up instead of facing these. Take a couple of hours or even days and see if you can find some inner spirit and get over the couple of people disliking you or whatever is the underlying issue here. You know I don't know you, I haven't really heard anything about you either and even if I did I wouldn't care unless I actually got to know you myself, so none of the above or my original post was meant to attack your persona in any way. I hope that's clear. I do have a tendency to talk bluntly about the things I don't consider to be flawless, so sorry about that.
Since we're about giving criticism, I'll give you a couple then comment on your criticism for me.
1) Have you seen the post history in both threads? The amount of flame to criticism ratio is quite off balance. It's true that this is from a certain few, which I don't get mad at because I know they either are just trolls with nothing better to do or they actually somehow don't understand anything. In either case, I can get by just by considering their situation. However, that the community backs up flamers and lists them as valid criticism is unbelievable. Given that there's a noticeable distinction between posts from people who hate me and the rest (gecko, nina, messer, 2pac)... I don't know how you guys don't pick up on this and discourage.
2) This point also takes into consideration the first. In order to provide constructive criticism, it has to be given privately, as soon as you open it up to a public discussion thread it's no longer a friendly conversation because of how people build off of it.
Otherwise I agree with a lot of your criticism, the event is not developed because I stopped doing stuff for Brood War mainly because of Gambit's Cup. As far as working with people, the only thing that came up was translators which can be found anywhere and everywhere. It's not what the event needs right now (so I apologize if it comes across as I can't work with people --- Which also should obviously not be the case given that I've worked plenty with Game, nOoNe and a few others).
On another note, I will start up full swing again for Gambit's Cup Round 2 and for these events to make them the best they possibly can be. However, I won't be doing anything for Brood War afterwards
The guy gives you a page of ways to improve it, and then he offers to help if you're interested. You guys should just already get this going instead of arguing about the same thing of getting this event going more smoothly since this is the most money for a foreign BW event.
On another note, I will start up full swing again for Gambit's Cup Round 2 and for these events to make them the best they possibly can be.
I'm pretty confident you just don't read english.
I see the bold, I will believe it when I see an actual attempt at it. Also, they have offered their help so you can at least use that...
On October 22 2012 02:34 Stratos wrote: We were discussing the event with Dollar, because we wanted to make it a success in Prague. We thought we found a flaw in the overall design and considered it best to present it to you. This flaw was most certainly holding back people from helping or even paying attention to the event. Why care if it's most likely not going to happen anyway? Should I share with my friends if I don't even know? Should I link people to the thread that looks precisely as a really bad scam would look like?
Should I invest my time to make it better if I don't have any guarantee that it's real?
Personally I didn't even ask myself the last question because I don't consider my editing skills good enough to appropriately present the event the way it should be presented. And yes, if it's an event with that prizepool, it should be well presented.
Whether this flaw worked subconsciously or otherwise, the effect is clear enough. The only way to prove that it's all real was to either get a large enough group of people to work on it together or to show that you have the money by investing some of it beforehand. That's what all the events out there do, and it's for a reason. It won't happen just by saying: Hi folks, we worked really hard, have an unreal amount of money, please help us make this happen (without the please). Actually there is nothing about seeking for help or volunteers in the OP, unless it's hidden in the FAQ.
If you can't work with people, which seems to be the case here (and should not be taken as an insult, but just an observation), you've got to do the latter or leave it to someone more capable in this regard. If you come up with something and say you're going to make it happen, then you either make it happen or lose credibility. At this point, this is something only you can fix. You cannot blame the people for not trusting you. But more importantly, you cannot blame anyone for not donating their time, even if they did trust you. We didn't come up with this event, you did. If you knew you couldn't make it happen on your own, you could've at least said so.
What was actually written in the original thread was: "Ladies and Gentlemen, the Euro 2013 Winter games have arrived. The stage is set, all that remains are the players and fans. This winter, we will be providing you with non-stop Starcraft: Brood War action as we tour the globe seeking out each Nation's finest Starcraft players. This tournament is the first of it's kind since World Cyber Games itself. Also, boasting the second highest recorded prize in foreign Brood War history, it is sure to be a spectacle of special magnificence."
This is not the end of the world though. Moscow can by a trial to see if you can actually make the event run smoothly. If you can, the championship will hopefully regain at least some of the needed credibility. Make sure the event in Moscow is a fucking blast and I'm sure more people will be interested in helping and playing in the next one.
Note - I'm not saying you're a bad person if this whole thing doesn't turn out to be as good as was expected or even if it doesn't happen at all, obviously if your intentions were such as you claim them to be, you're actually an awesome guy. Nonetheless, if you come up with something awesome and present it as a ready project but then can't make it properly happen, you will lose your credibility - if there was any to begin with (I don't really know you so I can't judge). Blaming others now for not stepping up, regardless of the reasons, or saying you don't care will work too.
As the organizer, it is your job to make this as best as possible given the circumstances. I've done my share of organizing shit for others in the past so I know it can will be rough. But if you can't deal with it, then please do consider finding someone else to do it. Pay them using some of the money from the prizepool if you must. I'm sure people will understand. If someone recognizes a flaw and you agree that it is in fact a flaw, you should try to fix it. Or you can give up, that is your call to make. Lastly, to be perfectly clear, the flaws in the presentation of this tournament are nowhere near as important as the organizer saying he doesn't care.
I hope you can somehow get over this criticism and accept it the way it is meant. All I'm saying is that there are things you need to improve if you want the tournament to work better. Since you're the organizer, this is basically the same thing as if I was pointing out flaws on your children. Everyone hates that. Also anyone who ever made/produced/painted/written/organized anything and presented to others for free was disappointed or even angry when others disapproved. I'm also slightly annoyed at you saying I didn't do or intend to do anything for this event - as if I wasn't ever doing anything productive for the scene, you mofo! (). This feeling is only natural, but as an organizer you need to get over it. You can disagree with what I wrote about the PR and its importance and that's fine, it's your tournament. But if you're going to get angry at me and the community instead for not doing anything about it, then you failed as an organizer, because the organizer is supposed to fix the problems. That is the position you put yourself in. I hope you can still fix this. Or let someone else do it. Both options seem better than giving up because you believe a couple of people here don't like you or don't trust you enough etc.
Sorry for the long post but since this is something that could play a huge role for BW in the future, I do believe it is worth taking some time and thinking it through. Please do. It would be a tragedy to let this die just because of a few simple errors and a misunderstanding and giving up instead of facing these. Take a couple of hours or even days and see if you can find some inner spirit and get over the couple of people disliking you or whatever is the underlying issue here. You know I don't know you, I haven't really heard anything about you either and even if I did I wouldn't care unless I actually got to know you myself, so none of the above or my original post was meant to attack your persona in any way. I hope that's clear. I do have a tendency to talk bluntly about the things I don't consider to be flawless, so sorry about that.
Since we're about giving criticism, I'll give you a couple then comment on your criticism for me.
1) Have you seen the post history in both threads? The amount of flame to criticism ratio is quite off balance. It's true that this is from a certain few, which I don't get mad at because I know they either are just trolls with nothing better to do or they actually somehow don't understand anything. In either case, I can get by just by considering their situation. However, that the community backs up flamers and lists them as valid criticism is unbelievable. Given that there's a noticeable distinction between posts from people who hate me and the rest (gecko, nina, messer, 2pac)... I don't know how you guys don't pick up on this and discourage.
2) This point also takes into consideration the first. In order to provide constructive criticism, it has to be given privately, as soon as you open it up to a public discussion thread it's no longer a friendly conversation because of how people build off of it.
Otherwise I agree with a lot of your criticism, the event is not developed because I stopped doing stuff for Brood War mainly because of Gambit's Cup. As far as working with people, the only thing that came up was translators which can be found anywhere and everywhere. It's not what the event needs right now (so I apologize if it comes across as I can't work with people --- Which also should obviously not be the case given that I've worked plenty with Game, nOoNe and a few others).
On another note, I will start up full swing again for Gambit's Cup Round 2 and for these events to make them the best they possibly can be. However, I won't be doing anything for Brood War afterwards
The guy gives you a page of ways to improve it, and then he offers to help if you're interested. You guys should just already get this going instead of arguing about the same thing of getting this event going more smoothly since this is the most money for a foreign BW event.
On another note, I will start up full swing again for Gambit's Cup Round 2 and for these events to make them the best they possibly can be.
I'm pretty confident you just don't read english.
I see the bold, I will believe it when I see an actual attempt at it. Also, they have offered their help so you can at least use that...
Criticism needs to be given privately in order for it to be constructive and friendly..? yeah, I don't think so.
I don't understand the other part of your criticism as well. Were we supposed to fight someone who flamed you in the thread? That was our job as a community? If you're good with people as you say, you should know the only way to end any flamewar is to completely ignore any flame in it and act friendly. If you're good with people, you shouldn't have any 'enemies' in the first place. If you're good with people, you know people can act stupid and will join on any witch hunt, no matter the reason, and you don't get upset about it. It is not personal. That's just what people do and there is actually some sense to it.
If you want to be a great organizer, you need to be good with people. You need to see past the flames and pick up on what people are actually saying and then help change their opinion. You couldn't achieve that with the PR. Also, you don't want to be arguing around with the same people in different threads creating or feeding useless drama that undermines your credibility, as well as theirs. And no, it does not matter who's the 'winner' in a flamewar. You're all losers, always. Sadly, in this case, BW loses with you. Well, good luck with the remaining work.
On October 22 2012 12:55 Stratos wrote: Criticism needs to be given privately in order for it to be constructive and friendly..? yeah, I don't think so.
I don't understand the other part of your criticism as well. Were we supposed to fight someone who flamed you in the thread? That was our job as a community? If you're good with people as you say, you should know the only way to end any flamewar is to completely ignore any flame in it and act friendly. If you're good with people, you shouldn't have any 'enemies' in the first place. If you're good with people, you know people can act stupid and will join on any witch hunt, no matter the reason, and you don't get upset about it. It is not personal. That's just what people do and there is actually some sense to it.
If you want to be a great organizer, you need to be good with people. You need to see past the flames and pick up on what people are actually saying and then help change their opinion. You couldn't achieve that with the PR. Also, you don't want to be arguing around with the same people in different threads creating or feeding useless drama that undermines your credibility, as well as theirs. And no, it does not matter who's the 'winner' in a flamewar. You're all losers, always. Sadly, in this case, BW loses with you. Well, good luck with the remaining work.
On October 21 2012 16:19 Stratos wrote: Some thoughts from a discussion with Dollar. Compared to what money you want to invest into this, the promotion of this is ridiculously bad. One ugly picture and a thread full of words and a shitton of FAQ nobody will possibly read. You say you contacted some people (casters?) to help you promote this thing, none of them replied. Wonder why? There's a complex coverage on TL but not once has this been mentioned elsewhere outside this thread. Wonder why?
A lot of people did not have confidence in this at first and there's a reason. If there is something great to come, it should be presented that way. One should be able to tell that the people behind it are serious.
I get it, it's hard to get help from volunteers because not many people had faith in this in the first place = and we're in an endless circle. In my opinion, the easy solution here is to take a small part of the prizepool and just invest it into promotion. Hire someone to make a SIMPLE website, graphics for the thread, some hype vid even, where the organization explains what's going to happen and why. It doesn't have to be top quality, it just has to be something.
I don't know if anything is under construction, but if not, it really needs to happen. Asap. Coupled with the uneasy sign-up process (45 replays, really?), this is hurting the event in so many ways. If the people behind this don't know what needs to be done in terms of PR in the first place, just hire someone to do it all. I'm sure there's plenty of people from the sc2 scene who would be happy to take the opportunity. Use them. Once you get a quality hype going, people will spread the word and more people will join, volunteers will show up and it can all happen. As it is, people are hesitating to even mention the event because they don't want to be the ones to promote a scam or something that's just not going to happen.
Splitting the tournament into parts and making Moscow happen would be a good step in removing these doubts. But if you want to make it pure BW, you want to make sure Moscow doesn't fail in the first place. Use your money wisely. What seems a waste might actually be crucial for this to happen.
edit: Just read signing up ends november 3rd.. well I guess that makes promotion for Moscow kinda useless. Focus on the next one then I guess :< Make sure there's good footage to use from the event in Moscow.
This.
I actually PM'd Eywa to ask if SC2 personalities that were involved with BW and were invested would be interesting in being a part of this event, but Eywa didn't replay.
I would really like to see this event be a success, but I'm afraid that without the help of people like maybe Day9, Artosis, Tastless (The list goes on) to promote the event in the SC2 community we just can't. Getting just a couple of these people on board would insure a successful event. I know that some people feel like they ''sold out'' , but did they? They stuck with Brood War for many many years. They were invested so much it might be in the past, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't support this. This would be the biggest LAN event in the history of foreign Brood war and these SOME of these guys would surely participate to keep their memory of BW alive or maybe something more!
I apologize for the lack of a reply, I had every intention of replying to it and it is that I have already tried to contact countless figures from SC2, it doesn't work. None of the have interest and/or can't work for Brood War atm for whatever reason. I've tried for many different events.
Ohh that makes me kind of sad : /
Maybe you could get one of the people in the BW community who had past experience with event organization to try to contact people again. It didn't work, but we shouldn't just throw the gun into the bush because I think we all understand that the getting a prominent community figure behind this event would increase the likelyhood of making this a successful event by a very large margin.
On October 22 2012 02:34 Stratos wrote: We were discussing the event with Dollar, because we wanted to make it a success in Prague. We thought we found a flaw in the overall design and considered it best to present it to you. This flaw was most certainly holding back people from helping or even paying attention to the event. Why care if it's most likely not going to happen anyway? Should I share with my friends if I don't even know? Should I link people to the thread that looks precisely as a really bad scam would look like?
Should I invest my time to make it better if I don't have any guarantee that it's real?
Personally I didn't even ask myself the last question because I don't consider my editing skills good enough to appropriately present the event the way it should be presented. And yes, if it's an event with that prizepool, it should be well presented.
Whether this flaw worked subconsciously or otherwise, the effect is clear enough. The only way to prove that it's all real was to either get a large enough group of people to work on it together or to show that you have the money by investing some of it beforehand. That's what all the events out there do, and it's for a reason. It won't happen just by saying: Hi folks, we worked really hard, have an unreal amount of money, please help us make this happen (without the please). Actually there is nothing about seeking for help or volunteers in the OP, unless it's hidden in the FAQ.
If you can't work with people, which seems to be the case here (and should not be taken as an insult, but just an observation), you've got to do the latter or leave it to someone more capable in this regard. If you come up with something and say you're going to make it happen, then you either make it happen or lose credibility. At this point, this is something only you can fix. You cannot blame the people for not trusting you. But more importantly, you cannot blame anyone for not donating their time, even if they did trust you. We didn't come up with this event, you did. If you knew you couldn't make it happen on your own, you could've at least said so.
What was actually written in the original thread was: "Ladies and Gentlemen, the Euro 2013 Winter games have arrived. The stage is set, all that remains are the players and fans. This winter, we will be providing you with non-stop Starcraft: Brood War action as we tour the globe seeking out each Nation's finest Starcraft players. This tournament is the first of it's kind since World Cyber Games itself. Also, boasting the second highest recorded prize in foreign Brood War history, it is sure to be a spectacle of special magnificence."
This is not the end of the world though. Moscow can by a trial to see if you can actually make the event run smoothly. If you can, the championship will hopefully regain at least some of the needed credibility. Make sure the event in Moscow is a fucking blast and I'm sure more people will be interested in helping and playing in the next one.
Note - I'm not saying you're a bad person if this whole thing doesn't turn out to be as good as was expected or even if it doesn't happen at all, obviously if your intentions were such as you claim them to be, you're actually an awesome guy. Nonetheless, if you come up with something awesome and present it as a ready project but then can't make it properly happen, you will lose your credibility - if there was any to begin with (I don't really know you so I can't judge). Blaming others now for not stepping up, regardless of the reasons, or saying you don't care will work too.
As the organizer, it is your job to make this as best as possible given the circumstances. I've done my share of organizing shit for others in the past so I know it can will be rough. But if you can't deal with it, then please do consider finding someone else to do it. Pay them using some of the money from the prizepool if you must. I'm sure people will understand. If someone recognizes a flaw and you agree that it is in fact a flaw, you should try to fix it. Or you can give up, that is your call to make. Lastly, to be perfectly clear, the flaws in the presentation of this tournament are nowhere near as important as the organizer saying he doesn't care.
I hope you can somehow get over this criticism and accept it the way it is meant. All I'm saying is that there are things you need to improve if you want the tournament to work better. Since you're the organizer, this is basically the same thing as if I was pointing out flaws on your children. Everyone hates that. Also anyone who ever made/produced/painted/written/organized anything and presented to others for free was disappointed or even angry when others disapproved. I'm also slightly annoyed at you saying I didn't do or intend to do anything for this event - as if I wasn't ever doing anything productive for the scene, you mofo! (). This feeling is only natural, but as an organizer you need to get over it. You can disagree with what I wrote about the PR and its importance and that's fine, it's your tournament. But if you're going to get angry at me and the community instead for not doing anything about it, then you failed as an organizer, because the organizer is supposed to fix the problems. That is the position you put yourself in. I hope you can still fix this. Or let someone else do it. Both options seem better than giving up because you believe a couple of people here don't like you or don't trust you enough etc.
Sorry for the long post but since this is something that could play a huge role for BW in the future, I do believe it is worth taking some time and thinking it through. Please do. It would be a tragedy to let this die just because of a few simple errors and a misunderstanding and giving up instead of facing these. Take a couple of hours or even days and see if you can find some inner spirit and get over the couple of people disliking you or whatever is the underlying issue here. You know I don't know you, I haven't really heard anything about you either and even if I did I wouldn't care unless I actually got to know you myself, so none of the above or my original post was meant to attack your persona in any way. I hope that's clear. I do have a tendency to talk bluntly about the things I don't consider to be flawless, so sorry about that.
Since we're about giving criticism, I'll give you a couple then comment on your criticism for me.
1) Have you seen the post history in both threads? The amount of flame to criticism ratio is quite off balance. It's true that this is from a certain few, which I don't get mad at because I know they either are just trolls with nothing better to do or they actually somehow don't understand anything. In either case, I can get by just by considering their situation. However, that the community backs up flamers and lists them as valid criticism is unbelievable. Given that there's a noticeable distinction between posts from people who hate me and the rest (gecko, nina, messer, 2pac)... I don't know how you guys don't pick up on this and discourage.
2) This point also takes into consideration the first. In order to provide constructive criticism, it has to be given privately, as soon as you open it up to a public discussion thread it's no longer a friendly conversation because of how people build off of it.
Otherwise I agree with a lot of your criticism, the event is not developed because I stopped doing stuff for Brood War mainly because of Gambit's Cup. As far as working with people, the only thing that came up was translators which can be found anywhere and everywhere. It's not what the event needs right now (so I apologize if it comes across as I can't work with people --- Which also should obviously not be the case given that I've worked plenty with Game, nOoNe and a few others).
On another note, I will start up full swing again for Gambit's Cup Round 2 and for these events to make them the best they possibly can be. However, I won't be doing anything for Brood War afterwards
The guy gives you a page of ways to improve it, and then he offers to help if you're interested. You guys should just already get this going instead of arguing about the same thing of getting this event going more smoothly since this is the most money for a foreign BW event.
On another note, I will start up full swing again for Gambit's Cup Round 2 and for these events to make them the best they possibly can be.
I'm pretty confident you just don't read english.
I'm very happy about that, but I just feel like this tournament is literally on in a life time opportunity at least for foreign BW that is and it won't come again and you obviously worked really hard to make this happen and I just don't want it to slip through our fingers.
THIS IS WHY WE HAVE PEOPLE LIKE EYWA. Who are capable of pulling this off, but his organization isn't there yet and I personally think he needs to get another community organizer that can help him (Primarly getting the word out by any means necessary)
If criticism is given in public, it drags other people's opinion which are not always constructive. Simply, it may be begin of 'witch hunt' which doesn't cause any improvement.
On October 22 2012 23:06 iFU.spx wrote: Do NOT post advices or ideas, noone needs them. If you want to help - Do it.
he would just make it fucking amazingly epic regardless of people giving him shit or trashtalk..
this way we will have an amazing event and all that you would have to do is to donate the money.. and you would still receive mad props for it by everyone
Let me just say right now that I really hope this event succeeds. I may have been skeptical about the prize-pool at first (I was like "Who has that kind of money laying around?") but even when some people I know said they thought the prize was fake, I even told them that I hoped that it wasn't fake. I honestly hope that your effort here succeeds, and even though I may have come off as antagonistic before, I apologize. I probably won't be able to come close to qualifying, and won't be able to afford a trip to Europe anytime in the foreseeable future, it's not about me.
Now, this may come as a surprise, but after some time of reflection, I would much rather just put myself out there and take a step towards reconciliation with you. After all, it's a game we both really love playing, and there is such a great community that comes with it, and I have no intention of skirmishing with you on the forums or anywhere again in the future. That's not the way I want to be, and I hope that it's not too late to make peace with you, Eywa-. That being said, forget about the grudge, I don't want it anymore or want to spend another ounce of energy on my own unnecessary negativity.
I sincerely believe that if you focus on the organization of this LAN tour, it will be a big success. Best of luck to you!
On October 23 2012 14:54 ninazerg wrote: Let me just say right now that I really hope this event succeeds. I may have been skeptical about the prize-pool at first (I was like "Who has that kind of money laying around?") but even when some people I know said they thought the prize was fake, I even told them that I hoped that it wasn't fake. I honestly hope that your effort here succeeds, and even though I may have come off as antagonistic before, I apologize. I probably won't be able to come close to qualifying, and won't be able to afford a trip to Europe anytime in the foreseeable future, it's not about me.
Now, this may come as a surprise, but after some time of reflection, I would much rather just put myself out there and take a step towards reconciliation with you. After all, it's a game we both really love playing, and there is such a great community that comes with it, and I have no intention of skirmishing with you on the forums or anywhere again in the future. That's not the way I want to be, and I hope that it's not too late to make peace with you, Eywa-. That being said, forget about the grudge, I don't want it anymore or want to spend another ounce of energy on my own unnecessary negativity.
I sincerely believe that if you focus on the organization of this LAN tour, it will be a big success. Best of luck to you!
thats the spirit !!!!!!!
we all should just read this post, chill the fuck out, and work together
On October 23 2012 14:54 ninazerg wrote: Let me just say right now that I really hope this event succeeds. I may have been skeptical about the prize-pool at first (I was like "Who has that kind of money laying around?") but even when some people I know said they thought the prize was fake, I even told them that I hoped that it wasn't fake. I honestly hope that your effort here succeeds, and even though I may have come off as antagonistic before, I apologize. I probably won't be able to come close to qualifying, and won't be able to afford a trip to Europe anytime in the foreseeable future, it's not about me.
Now, this may come as a surprise, but after some time of reflection, I would much rather just put myself out there and take a step towards reconciliation with you. After all, it's a game we both really love playing, and there is such a great community that comes with it, and I have no intention of skirmishing with you on the forums or anywhere again in the future. That's not the way I want to be, and I hope that it's not too late to make peace with you, Eywa-. That being said, forget about the grudge, I don't want it anymore or want to spend another ounce of energy on my own unnecessary negativity.
I sincerely believe that if you focus on the organization of this LAN tour, it will be a big success. Best of luck to you!
For everyone who is wondering how they can help, I will be releasing another thread to explain different ways which all come back to help us, help brood war. This thread should be released along with the tournament tracking thread and the website. Both on which you'll be able to find all of the fun stuff which want to know.
On October 25 2012 05:50 Eywa- wrote: For everyone who is wondering how they can help, I will be releasing another thread to explain different ways which all come back to help us, help brood war. This thread should be released along with the tournament tracking thread and the website. Both on which you'll be able to find all of the fun stuff which want to know.
On October 25 2012 07:03 trutaCz wrote: I knew Eywa- is the right guy on right place, i am not disappointed about organization, but a little about number of players ;(
Well, I hope to not disappoint, new stuff will be out as soon as we get some quality gfx and proof read text out.
Reps.ru has been informed again, requests to defiler.ru and sc2tv.ru owners also were sent so the news are coming soon. I hope then these lazy ass players will do what they must.
On October 29 2012 13:42 reps)Largo wrote: Reps.ru has been informed again, requests to defiler.ru and sc2tv.ru owners also were sent so the news are coming soon. I hope then these lazy ass players will do what they must.
On October 29 2012 13:42 reps)Largo wrote: Reps.ru has been informed again, requests to defiler.ru and sc2tv.ru owners also were sent so the news are coming soon. I hope then these lazy ass players will do what they must.
yeah I hope so too..
and yeah I think that Eywa died or something..
shame really :'(
he better not be, there is much unfinished business...
On November 05 2012 02:04 JohnMadden wrote: Let's not revive this 'Eywa- abandoning everything' trend from the other thread here, pretty sure he's just very busy this week.
On November 05 2012 02:04 JohnMadden wrote: Let's not revive this 'Eywa- abandoning everything' trend from the other thread here, pretty sure he's just very busy this week.
poor college kid now back to real life. no surprise at that
On November 05 2012 02:04 JohnMadden wrote: Let's not revive this 'Eywa- abandoning everything' trend from the other thread here, pretty sure he's just very busy this week.
poor college kid now back to real life. no surprise at that
I was pretty demotivated from doing this when I browsed through my e-mails of sign-ups. And I'm like... Well is it really worth it? So I casually went through each and pretty much dismissed everything and then... I was like WOAH... wtf!?
On November 06 2012 06:08 Eywa- wrote: I was pretty demotivated from doing this when I browsed through my e-mails of sign-ups. And I'm like... Well is it really worth it? So I casually went through each and pretty much dismissed everything and then... I was like WOAH... wtf!?
1. You should pay prize right after if someone(team in this case) wins tour, i've seen many people who are sick of watching organizer delaying to pay winners. It not only you Eywa, but many organizers i had seen. You should have checked everything before. No excuse for bank problem.
2. If you really need help, there are lots of organizers who are better than you(if not, still people who have lots of time who can devote) or you can just outsourcing. You don't have to make OP or everything. All you should do is get sponsor(you're the best in this position).
If you retire Eywa, it would be VERY sad for me. There won't be anyone who i can make fun of. PLEASE DON'T LEAVE!
Yeah Eywa why didn't you get Hyeon to organize the league for you? I mean when he organized ICCup CL, it got way more prize money and viewers than GC did! Oh wait...
On November 06 2012 22:02 Sayle wrote: Yeah Eywa why didn't you get Hyeon to organize the league for you? I mean when he organized ICCup CL, it got way more prize money and viewers than GC did! Oh wait...
1. You mean the league Eywa's buddies cheated in and then left, once they found out? On the server Eywa wasn't capable to work the most easiest tasks? Yes, it's easier to break someting than fixing it, which this thread proofs enough, don't you think? It's amazing he hosts an event in the city with the most active scene, with the argueably best organizers living nearby - I mean almost 50 tours with prize money, several sponsored LANs (uhhhh), a clan league with a similar prize pool and several other events - and yet only Largo feel enough pity to try to help. Yes, that really points towards this organizer's good record.
edit ; no offense @Eywa's friend.
2. Guess what? He had already asked me for help. HAHAHA. Oh wait, i rejected! :p
On November 06 2012 22:23 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: offtopic
On November 06 2012 22:02 Sayle wrote: Yeah Eywa why didn't you get Hyeon to organize the league for you? I mean when he organized ICCup CL, it got way more prize money and viewers than GC did! Oh wait...
1. You mean the league Eywa's buddies cheated in and then left, once they found out? On the server Eywa wasn't capable to work the most easiest tasks? Yes, it's easier to break someting than fixing it, which this thread proofs enough, don't you think? It's amazing he hosts an event in the city with the most active scene, with the argueably best organizers living nearby - I mean almost 50 tours with prize money, several sponsored LANs (uhhhh), a clan league with a similar prize pool and several other events - and yet only Largo feel enough pity to try to help. Yes, that really points towards this organizer's good record.
edit ; no offense @Eywa's friend.
2. Guess what? He had already asked me for help. HAHAHA. Oh wait, i rejected! :p
On November 06 2012 22:23 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: offtopic
^^ you know who i am
I know that you think your post makes any sense, but it really doesn't. All it makes sense of is your delusional sense of knowledge. You criticize me for actions taken by another person entirely. Game has never run and/or made decisions for my events unless it was otherwise indicated that it was a joint venture (Altitude Nation Wars). I mean, not only do you make a false connection between two people, but you also dismiss all the accomplishments of basically every money tournament since the release of Starcraft 2.
Now you see the delusion, now you see where you went wrong? I hope so... You live under the impression that we, the organizers of said events have wronged you... I won't speak for Game, but I do this as a hobby and I attempted to be the most manner guy out there for some time, however... constant bad mouthing from 100+ people eventually gets to you and then you no longer care, you don't want to help them, you don't want to be nice to them and you don't have to do any of those things.
Also, claiming that I asked you for help is very general, I asked you to help me gain contact with Sonic so that we could have interactive events between the scenes, you contacted him, then felt the translation took too long, decided to stop, asked me again later if I wanted help, I told you that you already quit once, why the fuck would I want your help now, you then responded with a "fine, I won't help you then" and I promptly reminded you that you never have and never will even if I allow you to.
Now, this is way off topic, so stop posting your delusional game/eywa theories in this thread as well as all other lost sense of knowledge and accomplishments you have. I don't think anyone cares, everything you've done for the scene has fallen through and/or was promptly quit on without you having added any benefit while passing.
To sum everything up: To any of you that feel you have been wronged by any organizer including myself, I have a few words for you; We don't owe you anything.
P.S. The bolded part is incorrect... and not by a little bit. It's amazing he hosts an event in the city with the most active scene, with the argueably best organizers living nearby - I mean almost 50 tours with prize money, several sponsored LANs (uhhhh), a clan league with a similar prize pool and several other events - and yet only Largo feel enough pity to try to help. Yes, that really points towards this organizer's good record.
On November 06 2012 22:02 Sayle wrote: Yeah Eywa why didn't you get Hyeon to organize the league for you? I mean when he organized ICCup CL, it got way more prize money and viewers than GC did! Oh wait...
1. You mean the league Eywa's buddies cheated in and then left, once they found out? On the server Eywa wasn't capable to work the most easiest tasks? Yes, it's easier to break someting than fixing it, which this thread proofs enough, don't you think? It's amazing he hosts an event in the city with the most active scene, with the argueably best organizers living nearby - I mean almost 50 tours with prize money, several sponsored LANs (uhhhh), a clan league with a similar prize pool and several other events - and yet only Largo feel enough pity to try to help. Yes, that really points towards this organizer's good record.
edit ; no offense @Eywa's friend.
2. Guess what? He had already asked me for help. HAHAHA. Oh wait, i rejected! :p
On November 06 2012 22:23 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: offtopic
^^ you know who i am
I know that you think your post makes any sense, but it really doesn't. All it makes sense of is your delusional sense of knowledge. You criticize me for actions taken by another person entirely. Game has never run and/or made decisions for my events unless it was otherwise indicated that it was a joint venture (Altitude Nation Wars). I mean, not only do you make a false connection between two people, but you also dismiss all the accomplishments of basically every money tournament since the release of Starcraft 2.
Now you see the delusion, now you see where you went wrong? I hope so... You live under the impression that we, the organizers of said events have wronged you... I won't speak for Game, but I do this as a hobby and I attempted to be the most manner guy out there for some time, however... constant bad mouthing from 100+ people eventually gets to you and then you no longer care, you don't want to help them, you don't want to be nice to them and you don't have to do any of those things.
Also, claiming that I asked you for help is very general, I asked you to help me gain contact with Sonic so that we could have interactive events between the scenes, you contacted him, then felt the translation took too long, decided to stop, asked me again later if I wanted help, I told you that you already quit once, why the fuck would I want your help now, you then responded with a "fine, I won't help you then" and I promptly reminded you that you never have and never will even if I allow you to.
Now, this is way off topic, so stop posting your delusional game/eywa theories in this thread as well as all other lost sense of knowledge and accomplishments you have. I don't think anyone cares, everything you've done for the scene has fallen through and/or was promptly quit on without you having added any benefit while passing.
To sum everything up: To any of you that feel you have been wronged by any organizer including myself, I have a few words for you; We don't owe you anything.
yo sponsor master Eywa-! learn text comprehension, even me as non-native speaker(yes, Korean!) can do that, the post was directed at OUR SUPERHERO sayle's "statement". as for you goes: we don't owe you anything either, you're not a saint
On November 07 2012 00:22 Eywa- wrote: "P.S. The bolded part is incorrect... and not by a little bit.
On November 06 2012 22:02 Sayle wrote: Yeah Eywa why didn't you get Hyeon to organize the league for you? I mean when he organized ICCup CL, it got way more prize money and viewers than GC did! Oh wait...
1. You mean the league Eywa's buddies cheated in and then left, once they found out? On the server Eywa wasn't capable to work the most easiest tasks? Yes, it's easier to break someting than fixing it, which this thread proofs enough, don't you think? It's amazing he hosts an event in the city with the most active scene, with the argueably best organizers living nearby - I mean almost 50 tours with prize money, several sponsored LANs (uhhhh), a clan league with a similar prize pool and several other events - and yet only Largo feel enough pity to try to help. Yes, that really points towards this organizer's good record.
edit ; no offense @Eywa's friend.
2. Guess what? He had already asked me for help. HAHAHA. Oh wait, i rejected! :p
On November 06 2012 22:23 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: offtopic
^^ you know who i am
I know that you think your post makes any sense, but it really doesn't. All it makes sense of is your delusional sense of knowledge. You criticize me for actions taken by another person entirely. Game has never run and/or made decisions for my events unless it was otherwise indicated that it was a joint venture (Altitude Nation Wars). I mean, not only do you make a false connection between two people, but you also dismiss all the accomplishments of basically every money tournament since the release of Starcraft 2.
Now you see the delusion, now you see where you went wrong? I hope so... You live under the impression that we, the organizers of said events have wronged you... I won't speak for Game, but I do this as a hobby and I attempted to be the most manner guy out there for some time, however... constant bad mouthing from 100+ people eventually gets to you and then you no longer care, you don't want to help them, you don't want to be nice to them and you don't have to do any of those things.
Also, claiming that I asked you for help is very general, I asked you to help me gain contact with Sonic so that we could have interactive events between the scenes, you contacted him, then felt the translation took too long, decided to stop, asked me again later if I wanted help, I told you that you already quit once, why the fuck would I want your help now, you then responded with a "fine, I won't help you then" and I promptly reminded you that you never have and never will even if I allow you to.
Now, this is way off topic, so stop posting your delusional game/eywa theories in this thread as well as all other lost sense of knowledge and accomplishments you have. I don't think anyone cares, everything you've done for the scene has fallen through and/or was promptly quit on without you having added any benefit while passing.
To sum everything up: To any of you that feel you have been wronged by any organizer including myself, I have a few words for you; We don't owe you anything.
yo sponsor master Eywa-! learn text comprehension, even me as non-native speaker(yes, Korean!) can do that, the post was directed at OUR SUPERHERO sayle's "statement". as for you goes: we don't owe you anything either, you're not a saint
On November 07 2012 00:22 Eywa- wrote: "P.S. The bolded part is incorrect... and not by a little bit.
That's what you think
I'm not asking for anything from you, from my point of view, if Brood War dies, it's just another game. I know you don't care about it too much, but people you know might. So it's just that general concept of don't shit on the people who are feeding you or in this case powering your hobby to be maintained with minimal effort on your end.
There is nothing to debate. I'm not going to continue on this conversation.
On November 06 2012 22:02 Sayle wrote: Yeah Eywa why didn't you get Hyeon to organize the league for you? I mean when he organized ICCup CL, it got way more prize money and viewers than GC did! Oh wait...
1. You mean the league Eywa's buddies cheated in and then left, once they found out? On the server Eywa wasn't capable to work the most easiest tasks? Yes, it's easier to break someting than fixing it, which this thread proofs enough, don't you think? It's amazing he hosts an event in the city with the most active scene, with the argueably best organizers living nearby - I mean almost 50 tours with prize money, several sponsored LANs (uhhhh), a clan league with a similar prize pool and several other events - and yet only Largo feel enough pity to try to help. Yes, that really points towards this organizer's good record.
edit ; no offense @Eywa's friend.
2. Guess what? He had already asked me for help. HAHAHA. Oh wait, i rejected! :p
On November 06 2012 22:23 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: offtopic
^^ you know who i am
I know that you think your post makes any sense, but it really doesn't. All it makes sense of is your delusional sense of knowledge. You criticize me for actions taken by another person entirely. Game has never run and/or made decisions for my events unless it was otherwise indicated that it was a joint venture (Altitude Nation Wars). I mean, not only do you make a false connection between two people, but you also dismiss all the accomplishments of basically every money tournament since the release of Starcraft 2.
Now you see the delusion, now you see where you went wrong? I hope so... You live under the impression that we, the organizers of said events have wronged you... I won't speak for Game, but I do this as a hobby and I attempted to be the most manner guy out there for some time, however... constant bad mouthing from 100+ people eventually gets to you and then you no longer care, you don't want to help them, you don't want to be nice to them and you don't have to do any of those things.
Also, claiming that I asked you for help is very general, I asked you to help me gain contact with Sonic so that we could have interactive events between the scenes, you contacted him, then felt the translation took too long, decided to stop, asked me again later if I wanted help, I told you that you already quit once, why the fuck would I want your help now, you then responded with a "fine, I won't help you then" and I promptly reminded you that you never have and never will even if I allow you to.
Now, this is way off topic, so stop posting your delusional game/eywa theories in this thread as well as all other lost sense of knowledge and accomplishments you have. I don't think anyone cares, everything you've done for the scene has fallen through and/or was promptly quit on without you having added any benefit while passing.
To sum everything up: To any of you that feel you have been wronged by any organizer including myself, I have a few words for you; We don't owe you anything.
yo sponsor master Eywa-! learn text comprehension, even me as non-native speaker(yes, Korean!) can do that, the post was directed at OUR SUPERHERO sayle's "statement". as for you goes: we don't owe you anything either, you're not a saint
On November 07 2012 00:22 Eywa- wrote: "P.S. The bolded part is incorrect... and not by a little bit.
That's what you think
I'm not asking for anything from you, from my point of view, if Brood War dies, it's just another game. I know you don't care about it too much, but people you know might. So it's just that general concept of don't shit on the people who are feeding you or in this case powering your hobby to be maintained with minimal effort on your end.
There is nothing to debate. I'm not going to continue on this conversation.
It's me who's not going help And thank you for letting me stop trolling here, it's waste of time fighting you!
WTF Eywa-, how could you say such a thing?? I am for one astonished to hear this come from you, don't crush my hopes and dreams Eywa-, First of all BW will never die, and BW is not just another game. Keep up your hard work .
WTF Eywa-, how could you say such a thing?? I am for one astonished to hear this come from you, don't crush my hopes and dreams Eywa-, First of all BW will never die, and BW is not just another game. Keep up your hard work .
I agree..
wtf that was really disappointing to hear such thing from you
Details to be released soon (Still too rough to release as is, need to revise)
First Qualifier to start November 30th, runs through to December 2nd. Games will be played on all 3 days.
Tournament bracket will work as such:
1st QF vs 8th QF
etc, etc, etc... This is with the expectation that the better players will win first.
Happy Qualifications, Sign ups re-opened till the 25th. 1 paid seat may be offered for USA/Canada players (to actually attend in person).
I will not be answering questions in the threads, it'll only make me mad. If you have something intelligent to ask, suggest it to someone who knows me.
On November 15 2012 01:37 Eywa- wrote: Details to be released soon (Still too rough to release as is, need to revise)
First Qualifier to start November 30th, runs through to December 2nd. Games will be played on all 3 days.
Tournament bracket will work as such:
1st QF vs 8th QF
etc, etc, etc... This is with the expectation that the better players will win first.
Happy Qualifications, Sign ups re-opened till the 25th. 1 paid seat may be offered for USA/Canada players (to actually attend in person).
I will not be answering questions in the threads, it'll only make me mad. If you have something intelligent to ask, suggest it to someone who knows me.
On November 15 2012 05:10 Eywa- wrote: Future sign ups will be counted for Qualifier 2 and beyond, first qualifier bracket is made.
Note: Only one player may qualify from USA/Canada, thus once a player wins a qualifier, all other players from those regions will be eliminated.
considering the format is continually changing, do we still wait until next year for the Americas qualifier, what do you mean by as soon as one qualifies everyone else is eliminated, wouldn't that conclude that there's only one qualifier?
I don't really understand. There are 8 groups, how will the 14 players come out?
"Country and/or Relative Area Qualification bracket (Nov 10 - Dec 15) Round of 56 (Group stage) – 1 moves on per group (Jan 12 - Jan 19) Round of 14 – Single Elimination (Jan 26 + Feb 2nd)"
On November 15 2012 22:52 nFteamAce wrote: I don't really understand. There are 8 groups, how will the 14 players come out?
"Country and/or Relative Area Qualification bracket (Nov 10 - Dec 15) Round of 56 (Group stage) – 1 moves on per group (Jan 12 - Jan 19) Round of 14 – Single Elimination (Jan 26 + Feb 2nd)"
On November 15 2012 23:00 nFteamAce wrote: okay, so how many players pass the group? And what if michael wins a ticket? he plays online? thanks for answers
If Michael wins, he plays @LAN (Only 1 CAN/USA can make it though).
There will be multiple qualifiers, therefore multiple groups to be played out. Players placing 5-8 on more than 1 occasion will be eliminated and no longer part of future qualifiers. (Walk Over counts into this) - Players must notify of their absence at least 1 week prior if they can't make it.
This is to make later qualifiers slightly shorter (because the first couple will seem very long and exhausting to many players. Please take this into account. If you really want to make it, you'll play through all that stress. After all, it wouldn't be a tournament if not for a lot of pressure of having to win many consecutive games over one weekend.
I apologize for the forever changing format guys, I'm trying to do the best I can with the information I have. I expected more sign ups and likewise, I'm pretty sure that if any of you look at the player list, you can think of a few more as well. I'll try to keep it a bit smoother.
On November 15 2012 23:15 Eywa- wrote: First one is Nov 30 - Dec 2
and format? You previously*** (damn phone autocorrect) mentioned there will be a new thread within a week at November 6th, maybe I missed it but it would be much appreciated for more clarity with the new format.
On November 15 2012 23:15 Eywa- wrote: First one is Nov 30 - Dec 2
and format? You preciously mentioned there will be a new thread within a week at November 6th, maybe I missed it but it would be much appreciated for more clarity with the new format.
Yeah, I apologize, pieces are missing all the time.
K so I will see the format for week 1 when posted and since I am down the road I have a little more time to prepare. Good thing I get to beat Michael cause if he was in a group before me then he could qualify before I even get a chance to play.
On November 15 2012 23:23 dRaW wrote: K so I will see the format for week 1 when posted and since I am down the road I have a little more time to prepare. Good thing I get to beat Michael cause if he was in a group before me then he could qualify before I even get a chance to play.
Nononono, you got it wrong. If it were designed as such, it would be imbalanced and unfair. This format is designed so that the best players move to the LAN. The groups indicate the players you have to go through for the first stage, past that you get to face off against victors from other groups.
On November 15 2012 23:15 Eywa- wrote: First one is Nov 30 - Dec 2
I apologize for the forever changing format guys, I'm trying to do the best I can with the information I have. I expected more sign ups and likewise, I'm pretty sure that if any of you look at the player list, you can think of a few more as well. I'll try to keep it a bit smoother.
The main event should be succesful if we as a community put in an effort to advertize it. If we do it together and correctly we should be able to.
On November 16 2012 03:46 FyRe_DragOn wrote: lets say that the predictions mazur posted actually happened, so that means that since mic won group H), draw and I are eliminated automatically??
Negative. If Michael qualifies for the LAN, you're eliminated.
On November 16 2012 05:06 dRaW wrote: So only one person from all these groups qualifies?
That's the idea, otherwise it's entirely luck based (which can be done in a 32 man tour, but not an 8 man tour).
Which means the winner will have played between 15-21 games on the weekend... Yeah, it's a lot, but the reward is also a lot. So, if you came in second every time you'd have played between 120 and 168 games for the tournament (Assuming groups remain the same size, which they won't) - Later QFs will be shorter (Or longer if sign ups roll in unexpectedly..
On November 16 2012 06:54 reps)Largo wrote: Eywa, can you make an addition thread please? Now it's so hard to find the general info: who plays, when, where, details...
+1 I guess if we are playing so many games all groups are playing that first December weekend?
It wasn't that hard to understand the recent posts? 1. He is currently waiting for some more information / confirmations / whatever, before he makes the other thread. 2. The first qualifier is played on that weekend, so all groups.
Update : 14:27:3014:27:31 Benjamin : Can you post in thread PP to next week 14:27:3214:27:33 Benjamin : Sorry for ban
14:28:2914:28:30 Benjamin You can also say that each player has to play everyone in their group once, so if they want to schedule some matches during the week, that's fine with me (so that their weekend is less busy)
Maps:
14:34:2814:34:28 Benjamin : Fighting Spirit, Circuit Breaker and Gladiator - Players must alternate from left to right. If there is a conflict, the player further along the progression towards gladiator has his map played.
Player 1 vs Player 2 -> FS (Both are at 1) Player 2 vs Player 3 -> CB (Player 2 is at 2) Player 3 vs Player 4 -> FS (Both are at 1) Player 2 vs Player 5 -> Gladiator (Player 2 is at 3) 14:34:5014:34:50 Benjamin : once you've played your match on gladiator, you restart the count
So everyone from my group, feel free to PM me so we can set a date
this is the weirdest + most random map selection progress i have ever seen in my entire life. imo kespa banning "pp" instead of "ppp" seems more reasonable to me. i refuse to play any match before the "sheduled" weekend because this map selection is sooo easy to abuse. and i dont think that the weekend will be busy with 6 single games, compared to the 6 bo3 u were indicating in your last post.
What a mess. Eywa, it's time to collect yourself and to finish what has been started. Please make a proper thread: the groups, the schedule, the maps — everything. Just the facts, nothing more.
It will not take much time to you, but that way you can save the player's time and nerves. If the tour get started like this
Also Eywa told me to post this in here: [15:08:45] Eywa: can you please post in the thread saying all replays to eywasc@gmail.com
I'm not playing in this but wow is this really vague and hectic in here, someone needs to take the responsibility of cleaning this up , and since Eywa- is tempbanned again ( What happened this time? ) , someone should take the initiative to help the players with a better structured , simplified, OP and a more simplified system....
I am just hoping this thing is not going to spiral out of control and turn into a huge cluster fuck where tons of players become very upset about the way this is being handled. God speed eywa, god speed.
On December 01 2012 02:09 reps)Largo wrote: What a mess. Eywa, it's time to collect yourself and to finish what has been started. Please make a proper thread: the groups, the schedule, the maps — everything. Just the facts, nothing more.
It will not take much time to you, but that way you can save the player's time and nerves. If the tour get started like this
or if there is a volunteer, he can make a separate thread for one of the groups and for its own needs. the more the volunteers the more the chaos will be diminished
On December 06 2012 03:04 Arca(Crema) wrote: So what time is this going to be played? And in what channel? Sorry if this was already answered but i cant find it.
Also anyone in my group wants to play a game for this? (skype: NbAstrO)
So, I haven't kept up with much for several reasons which I will not go into detail about, I cannot guarantee how the event will unfold, however, I can guarantee that the event will happen with top level quality. I am currently in discussion with Sonic about creating simultaneous Korean/Non-Korean tournaments thus to eliminate some of the burden on both parties which comes along with running a LAN. The Qualifications will be final regardless of the final outcome of the event, you will not have to re-qualify under any circumstance.
FS -> series 1 CB -> series 2 Gladiator-> series 3 FS -> series 4 CB -> series 5 Gladiator-> series 6 FS -> series 7
Also for my group Zaraki is not going to play, he is done with BW for now.
edit: also with the downtime and overall time just to organize these qualifications, shouldn't there be more people to qualify through each qualifier? I mean if we're only grabbing 1 person per event then we would need to do several weeks of these lengthy organized mini tours just to grab all participants for the main event.
edit2: what date are the up/down matches played?
*** If you win all your games in the group, or beat the 2nd place person and you end in 1st, do you still have to play 1st vs 2nd? (If you lose you will be 1-1 and still removed from tour)***
I can't play my matches from friday at the scheduled time. I've already talked to eonzerg and mca64 and decided to play the matches on friday morning and saturday morning. Is this kind of reschedule is allowed? Also for the other guys I should be playing on friday (lossilohi and dollar): I've tried to PM you but im not sure of your TL accounts, please PM me asap so we can reschedule.
On December 07 2012 11:25 FyRe_DragOn wrote: I have the same issue, cant play on friday, im going to contact octzerg and bugg to play at other times
the biggest problem was the information was released and some people have to play within 18-20 hours of reading the information
without a major update for it either, whos going to read it in time...
edit: only 1 player to advance per random group, and then a double elimination of the remaining 8. im not a fan of this either. The double elimination should start earlier if its used at all, the point being to make sure people arnt eliminated early who dont deserve to be eliminated due to a bad bracket (for example, if sziky is in your group..). normally, if you get to the ro8 in a big tournament like this theres no doubt that you deserve to be there, but with this system id say a few ro8 finishers would definitely deserve to be in the ro8 a lot more than others (depending on the top player per group).
On December 07 2012 11:25 FyRe_DragOn wrote: I have the same issue, cant play on friday, im going to contact octzerg and bugg to play at other times
the biggest problem was the information was released and some people have to play within 18-20 hours of reading the information
without a major update for it either, whos going to read it in time...
edit: only 1 player to advance per random group, and then a double elimination of the remaining 8. im not a fan of this either. The double elimination should start earlier if its used at all, the point being to make sure people arnt eliminated early who dont deserve to be eliminated due to a bad bracket (for example, if sziky is in your group..). normally, if you get to the ro8 in a big tournament like this theres no doubt that you deserve to be there, but with this system id say a few ro8 finishers would definitely deserve to be in the ro8 a lot more than others (depending on the top player per group).
it doesnt matter cause only 1 person qualifies in the whole thing, you have to play sziky eventually anyway. Could be worse, you could be in a suicide group :D
edit3: *see above* who is reffing these games? edit4: If we're given only 30 minutes per game as scheduled, when do we get WO if there is a no-show? If we're PLAYING a game that goes over an hour that was delayed, do we get WOd?
On December 07 2012 11:25 FyRe_DragOn wrote: I have the same issue, cant play on friday, im going to contact octzerg and bugg to play at other times
the biggest problem was the information was released and some people have to play within 18-20 hours of reading the information
without a major update for it either, whos going to read it in time...
edit: only 1 player to advance per random group, and then a double elimination of the remaining 8. im not a fan of this either. The double elimination should start earlier if its used at all, the point being to make sure people arnt eliminated early who dont deserve to be eliminated due to a bad bracket (for example, if sziky is in your group..). normally, if you get to the ro8 in a big tournament like this theres no doubt that you deserve to be there, but with this system id say a few ro8 finishers would definitely deserve to be in the ro8 a lot more than others (depending on the top player per group).
it doesnt matter cause only 1 person qualifies in the whole thing, you have to play sziky eventually anyway. Could be worse, you could be in a suicide group :D
what is a suicide group, other than one with sziky in it? sziky is the player most likely to advance in any group. only 1 person advances in any given group. i dont see how the situation can get any worse lol. Id be happy to get knocked out by sziky in the later stages of the tournamnet, but in this situation, i probably wont get to advance over anyone because hell advance over me. its like getting stuck vs sziky in the ro64 single elim, except 6 other people also get eliminated.
we go from ro64 to ro8 in one round, thats 56 people that just got eliminated immediately with no loser bracket. then the 8 who survived get double elimination, thats a slap in the face to all those who got 2nd or even 3rd place in their groups. The fate of each group is determined by the best (performing) player in each group, even if the rest are horrible newbs or actually also really good. So for example if sziky was in a group with say you, michael, technics, trutacz etc, then sziky would probably advance and eliminate all those top players at once. And then in another group the top player could be someone whod get stomped by any of the players i just mentioned. it doesnt make a lot of sense to me
Damn what the fuck, Eywa will you be happy when 50% of the games are going to be w.o ? We have information 24hours before event qualifcations, man just give up if you don't want to make it professional or at least normal.
On December 07 2012 17:12 dOTY wrote: Yeah i cant play friday neither. Same goes for saturday ( got to play another tournament there ) can i play on sunday ?
Sunday is for the up/down double elimination when 8 people remain :009:
On December 07 2012 17:12 dOTY wrote: Yeah i cant play friday neither. Same goes for saturday ( got to play another tournament there ) can i play on sunday ?
Sunday is for the up/down double elimination when 8 people remain :009:
I waited to see if something positive happens(not moscow or more prize)because i register praga not this tour. I'm sorry if someone has caused you disappointment, but for me, this amount is not enough to go to foreign lan.Especially moscow. so me enemy get w.o.
... So, I haven't kept up with much for several reasons which I will not go into detail about, I cannot guarantee how the event will unfold, however, I can guarantee that the event will happen with top level quality. ...
Yep, the quality level of organizing this tournament is too damn high.
On December 07 2012 20:38 sas.Sziky wrote: I waited to see if something positive happens(not moscow or more prize)because i register praga not this tour. I'm sorry if someone has caused you disappointment, but for me, this amount is not enough to go to foreign lan.Especially moscow. so me enemy get w.o.
On December 07 2012 20:38 sas.Sziky wrote: I waited to see if something positive happens(not moscow or more prize)because i register praga not this tour. I'm sorry if someone has caused you disappointment, but for me, this amount is not enough to go to foreign lan.Especially moscow. so me enemy get w.o.
+1
ANYONE now thinks someone should take in charge of this instead of BANNED eywa? Seems LRM)Game's doing great thesedays(or noone).
On December 07 2012 20:38 sas.Sziky wrote: I waited to see if something positive happens(not moscow or more prize)because i register praga not this tour. I'm sorry if someone has caused you disappointment, but for me, this amount is not enough to go to foreign lan.Especially moscow. so me enemy get w.o.
+1
ANYONE now thinks someone should take in charge of this instead of BANNED eywa? Seems LRM)Game's doing great thesedays(or noone).
I had proposed months ago (and i think a lot of people agree) that Eywa needs at least 2-3 people more as admins. I mean comon, you have event with such large prize pool, RL events to come, how is it humanly possible for 1 person to organize? answer is its not. Not even the best CEO of the biggest company in the world could organize this On his own. Because of numbers. To command a platoon of 12 soldiers, ideally you would want a Sargent and a field Sargent. It still can be done by one person. To command an army of 100 soldiers, there is no possible way 1 Sargent can handle it, with-out dividing the soldiers to several field commanders. Its simple math. Even zergs (who are highly "slave creatures"), have overlords who take orders from the overmind to control their broods.
I had stated 2 months ago what I though would be necessary to carry out this event sufficiently: + Show Spoiler +
On October 12 2012 17:21 pebble444 wrote: Voulunteer right here. Not sure how can i help but i would in any way i can.
I stated before i am ready to buy a ticket for Prague and possibly Berlin. I can help organizing or whatever.
Counstrucitve critisism: like EonZerg said, i think people are waiting on more exact info. You have to make it more official. When people start seeing Dates are set in stone, locations are established, partners are in on it, they will start flooding in like a flowing river.
For an event like this, a portion of it must be devolved into advertisement. Pay someone to make a website for this event.
Buy ads on TL and on the internet in general.. Make some merchandise for the event (T-shirts, caps, flags).
Get partners, like some gaming house to provide you with equipment.
Sponsors. Local and wordwide. This event will attract a lot of people and local sponsors are really good for having contact with the local community which is an important part of events as well. World wide sponsors will help generate revenue and expand even more the amount visibility towards it. A lot of people will be interested in this trust me.
Get convensions with local hotels/hostels, eating places and such.
Get in contact with Broodwar people in Moscow, Prague, Berlin and stockholm that are local and know the city well, as they will be able to help you out with the organizatioin part as well as finding the ideal location to host the event. Have them write how to get to the location from airport/train station bus station and how to move around in the city.
Only 5 months until this event goes down. I have organized a lot of things in my life and can tell you that its never too early to start getting prepared.
My help was refused, thats okay, its good to choose who to work with (i am still available to help). What i don' t find okay is that help was not seeked elsewhere (as far as mods or PR people). No schedule, everything decided on the spot or last minute it seems. I repeat one person cannot organize this no matter how much there good.
I don' t think someone can take charge of the event, it would not be appropriate. Besides, if someone does there might be no prize-pool. What i think should be done as a first step is getting more admins involved. Even having a schedule like this would be an improvement, example, this is what i did for my tour: + Show Spoiler +
. The online qualifiers don' t need to be too fancy just organized, players here have a lot of experience and are already trying to organize themselves on their own)
The reason why i don' t think this has happened is beacuse I personally believe that Eywa- has power and control issues. He doesn' t want people to get involved with his buisness, and wants to have the right to make decisions and have it all go his own way. (the reason i am bringing this up is because Ewya involved a lot of players here and its fair for them to receive a professional answer to such an enormous tournament they decide to play in)
- So, either Ewya realises this, steps over his personal issues, lets other people help, i think there is still the possibility to re-organize everything even do there is such little time. Different people already had offered their help without being asked, image if you asked for help. (for the love of Broodwar please)
- If not, is not, and i suggest you all put this event in the closet and move back to foreign online tournaments which is the best Broodwar has to offer atm.
sry my bad english or something... i have read the topic whole time but i have not seen that this is today? what channel? what time? sry... im not at home this weakend... bad annoucment
So, I haven't kept up with much for several reasons which I will not go into detail about, I cannot guarantee how the event will unfold, however, I can guarantee that the event will happen with top level quality. I am currently in discussion with Sonic about creating simultaneous Korean/Non-Korean tournaments thus to eliminate some of the burden on both parties which comes along with running a LAN. The Qualifications will be final regardless of the final outcome of the event, you will not have to re-qualify under any circumstance.
So, I haven't kept up with much for several reasons which I will not go into detail about, I cannot guarantee how the event will unfold, however, I can guarantee that the event will happen with top level quality. I am currently in discussion with Sonic about creating simultaneous Korean/Non-Korean tournaments thus to eliminate some of the burden on both parties which comes along with running a LAN. The Qualifications will be final regardless of the final outcome of the event, you will not have to re-qualify under any circumstance.
I'm sitting in "op eywa" on Fish, If you're here today, please stop by and say hi. People who have shown and played games will receive a special thanks. Sorry for my lack of interest in Brood War everyone, I kind of assumed that people would band together more to make this event work.
On December 07 2012 20:38 sas.Sziky wrote: I waited to see if something positive happens(not moscow or more prize)because i register praga not this tour. I'm sorry if someone has caused you disappointment, but for me, this amount is not enough to go to foreign lan.Especially moscow. so me enemy get w.o.
same, take w.o guys sad this is "organized" like this.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/ad83/FFC-Ifrit/Moscow.jpg)
TechnicS
Themarine
BoxioR
![[image loading]](http://bm.img.com.ua/videoimg/12/70412_s608x342.jpg?1215453911)
![[image loading]](http://cjohnson.commolloy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/35ve84-300x199.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://defiler.ru/core/shoutbox/smiles-visible/troll.png)
((((
![[image loading]](http://defiler.ru/chat/smiles-hidden/gogna.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://defiler.ru/chat/smiles-visible/009.gif)
![[image loading]](http://defiler.ru/chat/smiles-hidden/must2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/PsS2O.gif)
![[image loading]](http://www.trollingforjobs.com/WQ_Mountain_Troll.jpg)
