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Poland3748 Posts
On July 18 2012 00:59 ]343[ wrote:
Instead of this "bonjwa" talk, here's a list of everyone who has ever been #1 KeSPA rank:
Flash (32 months)
Boxer (17 months)
Nada (17 months)
Jaedong (16 months)
Oov (12 months)
July (11 months)
Savior (9 months)
Bisu (6 months)
Stork (4 months)
Chojja (4 months)
Fantasy (1, probably soon to be 2 months even if he doesn't win)
I'll let this list speak for itself.
The way I understand Bonjwa term is to be extremely dominant for a significant period of time. When I was compiling this datasheet  Starcraft Leagues Results/Prominence I noted that 3/4 rule: Bonjwas are the only players that won at least 3 of the 4 consecutive starcraft leagues:
NaDa won 2,3,4 KPGA Tours (MLSs). He also won the OSL that ended as second after 4th KPGA (so he won 4 SLs out of consecutive 5).
So 3/3 and 4/5 (the same for finals).
Flash won 2010 Hana Daetoo Securities MSL, 2010 Bigfile MSL and Korean Air Starleague Season 2. Again 3/3. Prior to Hana Daetoo he also was in three finals winning one of them.
So 3/3 (and 6/6 as far as finals are concerned).
iloveoov won 2004 HanaFOS CENGAME MSL, 3rd Gillette OSL, won 2004 SPRIS MSL, won EVER2004 OSL, won 2003 TriGem MSL.
So 3/3 and 4/5 (the same for finals).
sAviOr won 2006 Pringles MSL Season 1 and 2006 Pringles MSL Season 2, no result at ShinHan2006-2 OSL, won ShinHan2006-3 OSL and was runner up at 2006 GOMTV MSL Season 1.
So 3/4 applies and 4/5 finals.
BoxeR won 2001 Hanbitsoft OSL and 2001 Coca-Cola OSL, 2nd at SKY2001 OSL and won KPGA 1st Tour. So 3/4 and 4/4 finals.
Jaedong case is weaker - the best stretch: Gold, Gold, Ro4, Ro8, Gold or 3/5 or 2/2 (the same for finals).
Bisu even more so: 2/2 golds, 3/4 finals.
July's case is probably even weaker than Nal_Ra's 2/3 golds and 3/3 finals.
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I'd be very hesitant to place Fantasy amongst the absolutely greatest players ever. 
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Nah, Fantasy is the player of Stork caliber, not bonjwa (ok, maybe he is a little better than Stork), but still he is one of the better players in BW history, and FOR SURE amongs the best players of his era.
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Yeh, definitely. He'll go down (whether he wins the final or not) as one of the people just below the greatest. Oov, Savior, Flash, Boxer, JD, Nada will all be greater, hands down, but considering the amount of finals and innovations, Fantasy is right below them (along with Stork, Bisu, Nal_Ra and others).
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I'm not sure how you can say Savior is one of the greatest when he doesn't even have a single achievement.
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Ironicaly, if Jangbi wins against him, he will be considered as the better protoss than Stork, lol.
Lightwip...wat?
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Symbolic measures can apparently rewrite history.
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No achievements. No SL titles at all.
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He used to have them, but they're all gone now.
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On July 19 2012 00:45 Lightwip wrote:
He used to have them, but they're all gone now.
Oh shut the hell up. He is still one of the greatest to every play. His victories weren't tainted by the scandal, his losses were.
I don't think there should be any debate over bonjwa status. As far as I'm concerned, we have:
Boxer
Oov
NaDa
Savior
Flash
I don't think anyone else has a real argument to stand on.
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Fantasy: scalpel
Flash: rolling pin
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On July 19 2012 00:42 Lightwip wrote:
No achievements. No SL titles at all.
lol I can't tell if this guy is trolling. Someone help me?
I know a certain someone you like that has no SL titles at all either hahahaha
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On July 19 2012 01:07 rysecake wrote:lol I can't tell if this guy is trolling. Someone help me?
It's Lightwip; there's no such thing as intentional trolling from him. It's just the way he is.
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I don't particularly care to honor Savior's "greatness" no matter how good his play was. The fact is, he was the ringleader of a scheme that doomed BW more than anything else. Match fixing was more harmful than the lawsuits or the declining popularity.
There's no way in hell that I'd just let that slide and honor him as a BW legend.
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On July 19 2012 00:57 Holgerius wrote:Lightwip, do me a favour and read this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=226236I don't give a fuck that Kespa stripped him of his titles, or the fact that he's a despicable sportsman; Savior is no doubt one of the absolutely greatest players to ever touch BW.
On July 19 2012 01:09 Lightwip wrote:
I don't particularly care to honor Savior's "greatness" no matter how good his play was. The fact is, he was the ringleader of a scheme that doomed BW more than anything else. Match fixing was more harmful than the lawsuits or the declining popularity.
There's no way in hell that I'd just let that slide and honor him as a BW legend.
Love for the game vs. love for the scene.
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From my research, and writing a history on BW Professional gaming, this is what I got for the definition of "Bonjwa".
Bonjwa is a first-person pronoun in the Korean language which used to describe oneself in an overdignified manner. It is now used, for a very select few Starcraft players who have electrified the Broodwars gaming scene. It is not just sufficient to be the best player in the game to be bestowed the title Bonjwa. One must demonstrate skill and innovation that bring audiences and sports broadcasters to awe. Most notably, when Savior had beaten iloveoov, the broadcaster accounced just what the crowd's response was: ”iloveoov might be a champion, but Savior is a god and no one can beat god.”
Perhaps the best word in the English used to represent Bonjwa is “Icon”. To wit, no single person or organization can declare a player to be a Bonjwa. It can only come about through the universal agreement among commentators, players, and fans.
Bonjwa was first used by players of JulyZerg, but it was not accepted by all. Instead, Savior became the first players to be universally accorded the term, and it was later retroactively applied to Boxer, Nada, and Iloveoov. As of 2012, the only player with this distinction is Flash.
Bonjwas tend to be declared as such through the use of innovation as well as brilliant play. Some believe that the term will fall into disuse since Starcraft: Brood Wars has developed to the point where large innovations have become rarer.
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Okay fuck the term Bonjwa
BoxeR is the Emperor of Terran
IlloveOOv is the Monster Macro Gorilla Beast
NaDa is the Genius
JulyZerg is the God of War
sAviOr is the Maestro of Zerg
Bisu is the Revolutionary Protoss
Jaedong is the Tyrant Zerg
Flash is the Ultimate Weapon
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EPT
