EPT[OSL] Ro4: Flash vs Fantasy - Page 125
| Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments |
|
mierin
United States4943 Posts
| ||
|
Kal_rA
United States2925 Posts
lul | ||
|
VGhost
United States3618 Posts
On July 18 2012 10:16 nemga7 wrote: It's funny that people here in TL do trash talk on Flash's play. Yesterday's match between fantasy and flash was so mind blowing, the Korean BW forums don't even dare to comment on the gameplay from either of them. Flash played a typical flash, but Fantasy's play was so speedy and aggressive, flash's play wasn't able to get on the regular track. If you have no idea on how BW TvT works on the level of players like fantasy and flash, please don't try to act like one, because you are only embarrassing yourself. The skill that Fantasy showed yesterday match was simply unbelievable, and was a worthy victory. At this point, he is simply a better player than Flash with no doubt, and the only reason that flash lost was not due to any bad decisions, but simply fantasy being the better player. I'm betting on Fatasy pulling out a 3-0 win on the finals against Jangbi. I think it's inevitable that people are asking, "Why did Flash lose this series?" Sometimes a 3-0 is in fact as simple as one player being significantly better - as opposed to playing significantly better - but I don't know if that is the case here. fantasy is almost certainly the world's best Terran (maybe even overall player) right now, but Flash is so close - and has been a clear #1 himself for so long - that to say fantasy is "simply a better player than Flash" is difficult for me to accept. If this series was replayed 100 times, I doubt fantasy would 3-0 more than ten of them, if that. I doubt he win win more than 60 of these hypothetical series, if that. Of course I am guessing. There are games where one player doesn't make clear mistakes but still loses. Many of them are TvTs: Flash vs Leta on Neo Medusa (the nuke dodge game); Flash vs UpMagic on Sin Chupung Ryeong (goliath vs BC); Light vs fantasy on Colosseum II (mass wraith finish). But when we can find mistakes - comsat timings, over-making dropships, poor drop decisions or timings, etc. - it's silly to just brush the criticism off with, "These players are both better than any of you will ever be." Of course fantasy played better than Flash in this series. Much, much, better. But he's not normally this much better, not 3-0 better, and part of the reason is Flash's mistakes, as well as fantasy's brilliance. --- EDIT: I wanted to add another example here. We probably mostly remember that game Flash lost to Shuttle (I think), where he canceled turrets that he ended up needing. Was it bad play? Not exactly - in another game, if we remarked it at all, it would be "lol greedy Flash", and it might have had no effect. But in fact Flash lost that game because he took an unnecessary risk with incomplete information - and that makes it bad play. Or at least less than optimal play. | ||
|
Kal_rA
United States2925 Posts
| ||
|
MadeinQuebec
Canada16 Posts
Flash!!!!!..... sadface | ||
|
Demonhunter04
1530 Posts
 | ||
|
Jindo
United States1305 Posts
| ||
|
gngfn
United States1726 Posts
| ||
|
WaterTower
France138 Posts
Flash usually wins through his superior starsense, which is much better than anyone else's. In these games, his starsense failed and he just couldnt match the stronger macro and micro of Fantasy. Seeing how well Fantasy played, I really doubt Jangbi can pull off another victory from behind. | ||
|
Scrandom
Canada2819 Posts
| ||
GTR
51586 Posts
On July 18 2012 10:41 VGhost wrote: I think it's inevitable that people are asking, "Why did Flash lose this series?" Sometimes a 3-0 is in fact as simple as one player being significantly better - as opposed to playing significantly better - but I don't know if that is the case here. fantasy is almost certainly the world's best Terran (maybe even overall player) right now, but Flash is so close - and has been a clear #1 himself for so long - that to say fantasy is "simply a better player than Flash" is difficult for me to accept. If this series was replayed 100 times, I doubt fantasy would 3-0 more than ten of them, if that. I doubt he win win more than 60 of these hypothetical series, if that. Of course I am guessing. There are games where one player doesn't make clear mistakes but still loses. Many of them are TvTs: Flash vs Leta on Neo Medusa (the nuke dodge game); Flash vs UpMagic on Sin Chupung Ryeong (goliath vs BC); Light vs fantasy on Colosseum II (mass wraith finish). But when we can find mistakes - comsat timings, over-making dropships, poor drop decisions or timings, etc. - it's silly to just brush the criticism off with, "These players are both better than any of you will ever be." Of course fantasy played better than Flash in this series. Much, much, better. But he's not normally this much better, not 3-0 better, and part of the reason is Flash's mistakes, as well as fantasy's brilliance. --- EDIT: I wanted to add another example here. We probably mostly remember that game Flash lost to Shuttle (I think), where he canceled turrets that he ended up needing. Was it bad play? Not exactly - in another game, if we remarked it at all, it would be "lol greedy Flash", and it might have had no effect. But in fact Flash lost that game because he took an unnecessary risk with incomplete information - and that makes it bad play. Or at least less than optimal play. Watching the games live, the first two games were REALLY close (I honestly thought Flash had games 1 and 2 won after a certain period of time), but Fantasy made superior decisions and key strategic moves compared to Flash which ultimately won him the series. | ||
|
Skwid1g
United States953 Posts
On July 18 2012 13:25 GTR wrote: Watching the games live, the first two games were REALLY close (I honestly thought Flash had games 1 and 2 won after a certain period of time), but Fantasy made superior decisions and key strategic moves compared to Flash which ultimately won him the series. This. I don't know why people are bashing on Flash so much. Fantasy (as much as I love him) was losing in both games 1 and 2, the games were REALLY close, and to be honest not only was Fantasy's decision making ridiculously good in those sets but he also got pretty lucky in several parts which gave him the win. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19338 Posts
| ||
|
ne4aJIb
Russian Federation3209 Posts
On July 18 2012 10:16 nemga7 wrote: If you have no idea on how BW TvT works on the level of players like fantasy and flash, please don't try to act like one, because you are only embarrassing yourself. What?? If we are not on the level of Flash and Fantasy we cannot talk about the reason why Flash lost? Then why we can talk about the reason why Fantasy won? Are you one of those people, "Why are you talking like that, get to that level first?". Applyable to any sport, from football to hockey. This is what embarassing... | ||
|
Masheyoon
United States781 Posts
On July 18 2012 13:25 GTR wrote: Watching the games live, the first two games were REALLY close (I honestly thought Flash had games 1 and 2 won after a certain period of time), but Fantasy made superior decisions and key strategic moves compared to Flash which ultimately won him the series. Correct. The scoreline in this case (3-0) is very deceiving. In games one and two, Flash demonstrated far superior micro, macro (wow was Fantay's macro really off. At one point during Fantasy's lead in game two, he sat at 156 supply in spite of having over 1k minerals and gas in the bank until the game ended) as well as positioning. His decision making with his drops, however, lead to his downfall. I'm happy for Fantasy, but he took advantage of Flash's bad decision making in the first two games and out played him in the final game. That's pretty much it. Anyway, while I wasn't rooting for either player (it's the last BW OSL! It's doesn't matter who wins as long as it's an epic awesome 5-game series!), I admit that I did want to see Flash do what no other player had done before (win 4 individual starleague titles, or beat Nada for most titles won). Were BW to continue for just one more year, I'm sure Flash would get it done... | ||
|
Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
| ||
|
Masheyoon
United States781 Posts
I'll rewatch the series and edit this post if I find anything else that's noteworthy. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
WP to fantasy, but the series was a lot closer than the scoreline reflects. | ||
|
ne4aJIb
Russian Federation3209 Posts
Flash macroed like crazy, had much more bases, he had 50 supply difference, and he failed to take advantage of that. | ||
|
Jealous
10314 Posts
| ||
| ||
