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On December 10 2011 02:06 RUCoordinator wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 00:34 Sawamura wrote:
whatever man say what you all want about my team kt lolster , kt rolfster , kt dumpster ,it doesn't affect me any more , bring on the criticism , when the day kt starts fielding out the big names like flash,stats,mind, your days are out numbered, we were just trolling around , you think any coach with a right mind would have field in zergs against an all protoss line up ? , Coach lee surely hasn't been him self lately , so bring it on the hate, it only fuels in my vengeance system and I will be waiting for that time to call out the haters. 1. About the bolded statement: What? Zergs have been favored against Protoss for YEARS, statistically. That point makes no sense. 2. Specifically for SKT, Best has never been good against Zerg (except recently, apparently), Sun is not known for solid vZ either, Fantasy's vZ is widely considered to be his worst MU, and SKT zergs are probably on par with the fielded players (except Action) in ZvZ. Zerg was definitely the best choice against SKT player-wise, not only race-wise. The only player known to be a vZ slayer on SKT is Bisu. Sending 3 Zergs is not a bad choice at all, because 2 would have 50/50 or better chance of winning, and at most one would face Bisu (who has shown weakness to Shinesque busts, which I think KT Zergs are capable of). What are the other alternatives? Sending many T players vs. a team that is known to rely on Protosses is a bad choice statistically, and on top of that Best and Fantasy are close to the top in vT, Bisu beats most Terrans, and Sun's vT is definitely better than his vZ. Terrans outside of Flash would struggle with any of these players, and have a good chance of winning only vs. SKTZergs. Sending many P players vs. a team that is known to rely on Protosses is somewhat more sound, but also more coin tossing, as is the nature of mirror matches. On top of this, KT only has Stats to compete with Best/Bisu (whose PvP is slumping, relatively speaking, but is still above most P players) and Sun (who isn't that bad at PvP). Also not a good choice. Clearly, sending Zergs was the best bet. 3. Stats WAS fielded and DID get a win. Flash would undoubtedly be the 5th player, the most solid choice for winning a tie-breaker (which was a very likely scenario given what I said in point 2). Mind is a new player on the team and of course he would not be fielded this early on. When a new player joins a team, unless they are S-class, the team always has to figure out how to best utilize them. This takes time; gauging their skills in every mu, on different maps, and then comparing it to the skills of the other players. Once again, Coach Lee is doing the reasonable and logical thing here. 4. Coach Lee has infinitely more information about the maps, players, his team and the opponent team than any of us do. This, combined with my previous points, makes it clear that it is wholly pretentious to say that he is not in a 'right mind'. To summarize, I think you are blinded by rage at the haters in this thread, and thus made many illogical claims, which is understandable. However, you were mad because you are clearly devoted to your team - use that devotion as a reason to have FAITH in your coach (like eonzerg said, you guys won PL twice in a row? Come the fuck on, how can you hate on your coach now?) and his decisions, even if they turn out poorly. Even Flash loses random games and no single player is a lock-on for victory vs any other player in general, so even if his plan turned out shitty, that doesn't mean it was a bad plan at all. I'd say that 99% of the time, AT LEAST, Coach Lee's decisions will be better than yours. A short analysis above proved this. Please keep this in mind before you hate on him in the future. It's downright disrespectful - a person who has never managed a competitive SC team ignorantly judging the most successful coach of the past 2 years.
Negativities aside, i kinda agree with this guy.
Outside of Bisu, most SKT players have been showing weakness vs Z in the past (Rain.. well he wasnt special vs Z at least, kinda all-rounder).. I don't think Mind would have fared better vs SKT Toss, all of whom have good vT. KT fielded their only Protoss, and hoped to get the remaining wins off of their Zerg line (Flash on game 5 is without a doubt).
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On December 10 2011 02:06 RUCoordinator wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 00:34 Sawamura wrote:
whatever man say what you all want about my team kt lolster , kt rolfster , kt dumpster ,it doesn't affect me any more , bring on the criticism , when the day kt starts fielding out the big names like flash,stats,mind, your days are out numbered, we were just trolling around , you think any coach with a right mind would have field in zergs against an all protoss line up ? , Coach lee surely hasn't been him self lately , so bring it on the hate, it only fuels in my vengeance system and I will be waiting for that time to call out the haters. 1. About the bolded statement: What? Zergs have been favored against Protoss for YEARS, statistically. That point makes no sense. 2. Specifically for SKT, Best has never been good against Zerg (except recently, apparently), Sun is not known for solid vZ either, Fantasy's vZ is widely considered to be his worst MU, and SKT zergs are probably on par with the fielded players (except Action) in ZvZ. Zerg was definitely the best choice against SKT player-wise, not only race-wise. The only player known to be a vZ slayer on SKT is Bisu. Sending 3 Zergs is not a bad choice at all, because 2 would have 50/50 or better chance of winning, and at most one would face Bisu (who has shown weakness to Shinesque busts, which I think KT Zergs are capable of). What are the other alternatives? Sending many T players vs. a team that is known to rely on Protosses is a bad choice statistically, and on top of that Best and Fantasy are close to the top in vT, Bisu beats most Terrans, and Sun's vT is definitely better than his vZ. Terrans outside of Flash would struggle with any of these players, and have a good chance of winning only vs. SKTZergs. Sending many P players vs. a team that is known to rely on Protosses is somewhat more sound, but also more coin tossing, as is the nature of mirror matches. On top of this, KT only has Stats to compete with Best/Bisu (whose PvP is slumping, relatively speaking, but is still above most P players) and Sun (who isn't that bad at PvP). Also not a good choice. Clearly, sending Zergs was the best bet. 3. Stats WAS fielded and DID get a win. Flash would undoubtedly be the 5th player, the most solid choice for winning a tie-breaker (which was a very likely scenario given what I said in point 2). Mind is a new player on the team and of course he would not be fielded this early on. When a new player joins a team, unless they are S-class, the team always has to figure out how to best utilize them. This takes time; gauging their skills in every mu, on different maps, and then comparing it to the skills of the other players. Once again, Coach Lee is doing the reasonable and logical thing here. 4. Coach Lee has infinitely more information about the maps, players, his team and the opponent team than any of us do. This, combined with my previous points, makes it clear that it is wholly pretentious to say that he is not in a 'right mind'. To summarize, I think you are blinded by rage at the haters in this thread, and thus made many illogical claims, which is understandable. However, you were mad because you are clearly devoted to your team - use that devotion as a reason to have FAITH in your coach (like eonzerg said, you guys won PL twice in a row? Come the fuck on, how can you hate on your coach now?) and his decisions, even if they turn out poorly. Even Flash loses random games and no single player is a lock-on for victory vs any other player in general, so even if his plan turned out shitty, that doesn't mean it was a bad plan at all. I'd say that 99% of the time, AT LEAST, Coach Lee's decisions will be better than yours. A short analysis above proved this. Please keep this in mind before you hate on him in the future. It's downright disrespectful - a person who has never managed a competitive SC team ignorantly judging the most successful coach of the past 2 years.
Why you field in More Zerg players when they are clearly Dying to skt 1 line ups ? Okay the team is already in a dire situation stats just won the game for us and I have Mind as a great player to send in , So I have used Action,Crazyhydra who have a decent records against protoss, yet they are clearly DYING to protosses which universally supposed to be cannon fodder to ZERGS , I have one more which is hoejja , Why would I send in Hoejja when I have a Terran player who is also a msl winner and has a great records against almost all match up ? . So what if zergs are historically Great against Protosses in it's matchup ? when I can field In a player like mind or flash to do the job to extend it to 3-2 .
I think you should realize that before you even start posting you should bother reading them before you do so " Come the fuck on " ???? or Calm the fuck down ? Which is which is ? Because seriously I am not going to "come to fuck on with you " . How do you know coach lee decision is better than mine it's like saying hey you got no chance in life you know just because you are a random kid in some slum ? .
Besides that I have always respected coach lee and I never mention that " He is a total joke ", Yet at the bolded part " it seems like you can read my mind and come to conclusion " smart or a dumb one stating that I am hating my coach because I am raging ", Fact number one you do not know me , fact number two no where in my statement that I am going bonkers over my coach " .
Hence the reason I am stating he isn't being him self lately , who is hating anyone , I am just saying what's up with him lately ? In our match against ace we had a decent lead because of flash and stats winning their game , Clearly we could have taken the match isn't it ?
No he had to sent in barracks after Action failing in that game and what's the purpose of that ? Proleague matches are supposed to be played to win and as a fan I am expecting my team to win every time they fielded out in the game . What's the point of hiring a good terran player like mind ? If you are going to used him just for a practice partner ? Maps are bad ? Protoss players were complaining hey " the maps for protoss sucks " and then in proleague matches instead they were the most being fielded out on the games . So who should I believe right now ?
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*comes back, clicks results spoiler....*
Wait, what? KT lost again? Aren't they like 0-3 now in PL? No Flash either is weird.....
Also, weren't the Protoss players complaining about the maps earlier in that interview?
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No Flash? I'll have whatever the KT coaching staff is smoking.
I wonder if Fantasy has been demoted to the B team again. Without oov it seems likely.
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On December 10 2011 04:57 Pelopidas wrote:
No Flash? I'll have whatever the KT coaching staff is smoking.
I wonder if Fantasy has been demoted to the B team again. Without oov it seems likely.
He was insurance card. If Flash sent in game 4= good, Flash wasted, Fantasy masive favorite against anyone else in game 5. If it went to game 5 against Flash = Fantasy still got better chance against him than anyone else that left from SKT.
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Yeah, go SKT! I'm surprised that Flash did not get played. KT's got a rough start to the season now.
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9071 Posts
"omg stupid coach sending a zerg against protoss player"
if only ppl knew back in 2006...
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sending flash in game 5 means that KT would probably take it if the other 4 performed, but that's a pretty rough assumption to make of anybody but Stats really
KT is the one team most reliant on the old ace match format it seems... I hope violet comes back soon :/
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Wow.... I cry as both a KT fan and a zerg player 
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Is it me or protoss players are getting dragons vZ faster than usual? It seems that the tech switch is comming a little bit faster. Might be my imagination...as I'm not a very good bw player.
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mmm yes, I love the smell of cooked KT Lobsters.
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United States1719 Posts
On December 10 2011 06:09 Kznn wrote:
Is it me or protoss players are getting dragons vZ faster than usual? It seems that the tech switch is comming a little bit faster. Might be my imagination...as I'm not a very good bw player.
it seems like toss players are relying less on the +1(+0) legspeed zealot push cuz zerg simcity got so good, so it may seem that they are switching over faster
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Jaedong lose to all protosses. Ture story.
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On December 10 2011 02:25 hitthat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 04:11 corumjhaelen wrote:
What will happen :
Hoejja>Bisu
Stats>Soo
Flash>Fantasy.
Tears will be shed.
And no, I'm not dellusional.
Wait, WHAT!? :D
I really love pregame KT vs SKT trashtalk (even though the postgame stuff are usuall highly annoying). Let's note that I had 2 predictions right :D
Jkjkjk.
I think it was much closer than expected, ut I'm really sad to have missed Flash and Fantasy (my favorite SKT player if you can say so).
Anyway very well played SKT, and I must say Sun is looking really promising.
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On December 10 2011 06:09 Kznn wrote:
Is it me or protoss players are getting dragons vZ faster than usual? It seems that the tech switch is comming a little bit faster. Might be my imagination...as I'm not a very good bw player.
It's a natural change in metagame, since zergs learned to sim-city well, and goons are good to get some free buildings like Bisu did. It seems like protosses are ahead of zergs in metagame watching today games. But there are also yesterday games where I thought the opposite is happening.
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It feels like we're not seeing enough Terran this season.
The reason might be....
Fantasy, Sea, Light, Bogus, Baby, Leta (Flash)
Hydra, Zero, Soulkey, Effort, Killer, Soo (Jaedong/Hydra)
Jangbi, Horang2, Movie, Stats, Stork, Best (Bisu)
There's a reason we have so much ZvZ/ZvP/PvP this season. Honestly, at this point, I miss TvT
Fantasy vs Flash would have been a great way to end this match.
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It's a bit funny how only Protoss won lol. Shame I missed the games, I had to study for finals . I hope I'll be able to find them uploaded on nevake. ;o
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On December 10 2011 06:57 arbiter_md wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 06:09 Kznn wrote:
Is it me or protoss players are getting dragons vZ faster than usual? It seems that the tech switch is comming a little bit faster. Might be my imagination...as I'm not a very good bw player.
It's a natural change in metagame, since zergs learned to sim-city well, and goons are good to get some free buildings like Bisu did. It seems like protosses are ahead of zergs in metagame watching today games. But there are also yesterday games where I thought the opposite is happening.
Just wait till they meet to find out who's ahead. SKT vs CJ will be on December 31st, iirc.
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On December 10 2011 02:06 RUCoordinator wrote:
Mind is a new player on the team and of course he would not be fielded this early on. When a new player joins a team, unless they are S-class, the team always has to figure out how to best utilize them.
This is BS. Mind is a fucking starleague winner who beat Savior and Bisu in series play. He was the ace for WeMade for 2 years. He's probably the 7th or 8th best terran in the world and he is definitely atleast the 3rd best player on KT. He should be fielded every fucking match along with Flash and Stats. All 3 zergs are sub 50% lifetime. They should get one spot in lineup between all 3 of them and give the last spot to develop Wooki the way SKT have developed Sun.
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The KT coach made all the right moves. He fed chaff to Bisu and Best, was able to save Flash for Fantasy, and got the most favorable matchups possible for Stats and Hoejja. It didn't work because Hoejja channeled Action, but the matchups were as good as KT could get.
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EPT
