I almost forgot there were games tonight after the shock of today's news. I don't know how the pros are going to play their best with everything going on. Long live Brood War!
On July 27 2011 19:22 orangeshines wrote: Could someone sum up where we're at with previous games? Is anyone eliminated already... who needs to win etc?
On July 27 2011 19:22 orangeshines wrote: Could someone sum up where we're at with previous games? Is anyone eliminated already... who needs to win etc?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=235646 Just scroll down to Round of 16, there will be results so far on the match ups that have happened as well as the ones to come, so from there you can work out (depending on who you want to advance) who needs to win/lose Hope that helps
On July 27 2011 19:22 orangeshines wrote: Could someone sum up where we're at with previous games? Is anyone eliminated already... who needs to win etc?
Technically noone is actually eliminated yet, those with 0-2 has to win their game with the guy with 2-0 in their group winning theirs, forcing a tiebreaker between all the 1-3s
On July 27 2011 19:35 Black[CAT] wrote: Flash! Please save Stork from elimination! Taek Bang Lee Ssang ro4, gogo!
Stork is probably out anyway. For him to advance, the following things have to happen: 1) Flash beats Shine; 2) Stork beats Hydra; 3) Stork wins the tiebreaker between himself, Shine, and Hydra.
I just noticed, this set has sea, fantasy, killer, calm, flash, and jaedong. other than having a tbls in one day, this is a pretty amazing day to be watching BW!
On July 27 2011 18:03 BLinD-RawR wrote: lets take 2 hours to not worry about these troubles and try to enjoy the games for the sake of the progamers,its what they would want us to do.
Just read the crap news. But yeah, well said mate. I think I'll try and take your advice - plenty of time to feel sick later.
Both players begin their third; Sea starts his a little earlier
fantasy pushing up the left side with vulture/tank! He's able to take up a position near Sea's nat. During the push, though, Sea snipes the SCV building fantasy's third
fantasy drops a vulture in sea's main; does nothing, drops a vulture in sea's nat; does nothing, drops 2 vultures in the third and gets quite a few kills
dship gets hunted down by a wraith
fantasy pushes sea's position near 6, kills 3 tanks, sea manages to add new tanks there
fantasy's forces near Sea's nat kill 4 tanks! fantasy now has range on Sea's nat gas
Sea kills the SCV building fantasy's fourth with a vulture; has 2 ports, one with a control tower to try to fight fanta's air dominance, cloak being researched and valks being built
sea's nat gas is down, but it looks like he's starting his fifth at 6 on the minimap
fantasy pushes sea's tank line protecting his fifth with vulture/tank! Sea has no support nearby, so he's able to take it out. Sea creating a new defense line around the ramp
sea brings in an enormous fleet of valk/wraith and is able to kill the tanks denying 6! fantasy bringing more tanks and his own wraith/valk fleet as reinforcements, but Sea has managed to land and start mining gas at 6 again
Sea vulture/tank pushes the tanks at 6! he kills them, but fantasy's wraiths are nearby and start killing tanks. Sea brings in his fleet, close air battle that fantasy wins with about 5 wraiths
CC at 6 going down, Sea is really, really far behind
Aaaaaand Fantasy is the first player to advance 3-0 this OSL, thus saving his teammate Soo from immediate elimination, even in the event that he loses his game vs. Hiya.
A bad game from Sea made that less interesting than it could have been, but on the flipside, fan favorite Hiya now has a new lease on life, since he can beat Soo to force 3x1-2 tiebreakers.
On July 27 2011 20:08 BLinD-RawR wrote: so T1 fans(Bisu Fans) tell me,who do you hate more,Shine or Flash?
I can't speak for the Bisu fans, but as a T1 fan I'd have to say I don't hate either of them. How can you not respect Flash ffs? And Shine, well, IMO you've gotta love somebody who knows what his strengths are and focuses on doing them well.
On July 27 2011 20:08 BLinD-RawR wrote: so T1 fans(Bisu Fans) tell me,who do you hate more,Shine or Flash?
I can't speak for the Bisu fans, but as a T1 fan I'd have to say I don't hate either of them. How can you not respect Flash ffs? And Shine, well, IMO you've gotta love somebody who knows what his strengths are and focuses on doing them well.
is there a single thing in the BW world that you dislike
lol flash with <70% vs zerg win rate. shine has never put up a good game against Flash, so I'll go with Flash for this one. not to mention this map...lol
On July 27 2011 20:08 BLinD-RawR wrote: so T1 fans(Bisu Fans) tell me,who do you hate more,Shine or Flash?
I can't speak for the Bisu fans, but as a T1 fan I'd have to say I don't hate either of them. How can you not respect Flash ffs? And Shine, well, IMO you've gotta love somebody who knows what his strengths are and focuses on doing them well.
is there a single thing in the BW world that you dislike
Well, come the LR thread for Shanghai I'm sure I'll find quite a bit to dislike
Edit: As a Toss fan at heart I'm not loving the current state of things, so yeah, there is stuff I don't like..hate even!
On July 27 2011 20:08 BLinD-RawR wrote: so T1 fans(Bisu Fans) tell me,who do you hate more,Shine or Flash?
So with your logic, can I say KT fans (Flash fans) then?
Yeah, my heart broken too. So SKT-terran line fans are not SKT fans?
I'm sorry,I did not want to instigate anything.
Gotta be careful dude. Not long now until Shanghai. Us SKT fans are already starting to channel our natural hatred for all things KT, and ready to argue for the honour of all things SKT
On July 27 2011 20:08 BLinD-RawR wrote: so T1 fans(Bisu Fans) tell me,who do you hate more,Shine or Flash?
So with your logic, can I say KT fans (Flash fans) then?
Yeah, my heart broken too. So SKT-terran line fans are not SKT fans?
I'm sorry,I did not want to instigate anything.
Gotta be careful dude. Not long now until Shanghai. Us SKT fans are already starting to channel our natural hatred for all things KT, and ready to argue for the honour of all things SKT
"ready to start?" thats weak brah
KT can hate SKT1 the whole year, not just for the finals
On July 27 2011 20:08 BLinD-RawR wrote: so T1 fans(Bisu Fans) tell me,who do you hate more,Shine or Flash?
So with your logic, can I say KT fans (Flash fans) then?
Yeah, my heart broken too. So SKT-terran line fans are not SKT fans?
I'm sorry,I did not want to instigate anything.
Gotta be careful dude. Not long now until Shanghai. Us SKT fans are already starting to channel our natural hatred for all things KT, and ready to argue for the honour of all things SKT
I won't trash talk,unless you insult me personally.
On July 27 2011 20:08 BLinD-RawR wrote: so T1 fans(Bisu Fans) tell me,who do you hate more,Shine or Flash?
So with your logic, can I say KT fans (Flash fans) then?
Yeah, my heart broken too. So SKT-terran line fans are not SKT fans?
I'm sorry,I did not want to instigate anything.
Gotta be careful dude. Not long now until Shanghai. Us SKT fans are already starting to channel our natural hatred for all things KT, and ready to argue for the honour of all things SKT
"ready to start?" thats weak brah
KT can hate SKT1 the whole year, not just for the finals
On July 27 2011 20:22 jammedk wrote: Ok... someone please explain the whole ruler business.
Is Flash just extremely finicky regarding distance between keyboard and screen etc.?
Flash brings a ruler to the game booth and measures things (to make sure that computer, keyboard, and mouse are positioned in the exact same way as they are when he practices).
On July 27 2011 20:08 BLinD-RawR wrote: so T1 fans(Bisu Fans) tell me,who do you hate more,Shine or Flash?
So with your logic, can I say KT fans (Flash fans) then?
Yeah, my heart broken too. So SKT-terran line fans are not SKT fans?
I'm sorry,I did not want to instigate anything.
Gotta be careful dude. Not long now until Shanghai. Us SKT fans are already starting to channel our natural hatred for all things KT, and ready to argue for the honour of all things SKT
"ready to start?" thats weak brah
KT can hate SKT1 the whole year, not just for the finals
Haha, I was thinking more along the lines of starting to channel that hatred to Grand Final heights - that "love" for each other is constant, 24/7, I agree with you there lol.
On July 27 2011 20:08 BLinD-RawR wrote: so T1 fans(Bisu Fans) tell me,who do you hate more,Shine or Flash?
So with your logic, can I say KT fans (Flash fans) then?
Depends, do you exxagerate it and say we're fans of KT because of flash or do you say that we're flash fans because of KT?
I am pretty sure all SKT1 fans are Bisu fans (vast majority atleast), though not all bisu fans are SKT1 fans? Catch my logic?
I think they hate shine more, though =D
It could go either way, yes? A fan of their team usually supports all players on the team, but you can not support a player on the team you support as well, right?
Not saying that I don't support Bisu, but BLinD-RawR's question was stated in an exaggerated tone, that was my point.
On July 27 2011 20:08 BLinD-RawR wrote: so T1 fans(Bisu Fans) tell me,who do you hate more,Shine or Flash?
So with your logic, can I say KT fans (Flash fans) then?
Yeah, my heart broken too. So SKT-terran line fans are not SKT fans?
I'm sorry,I did not want to instigate anything.
Gotta be careful dude. Not long now until Shanghai. Us SKT fans are already starting to channel our natural hatred for all things KT, and ready to argue for the honour of all things SKT
On July 27 2011 20:26 Telcontar wrote: It's still strange seeing pathfinder again after like 6 months.
The map pool kind of sucks, in my opinion. Pathfinder appears pretty imbalanced (and usually the OSL gimmick maps only last a season), and La Mancha is just a huge copout.
Hmm, I'm not sure that engagement was worth it for Shine, he lost a bunch of stuff for not a whole lot of stuff. But Flash is only on 2 bases and Shine is on 3, so what do I know.
Flash still has a big supply lead and denied the fourth gas successfully. He's not out of this by any means, but if he doesn't step up his play a bit, he might get overwhelmed just by defiler/ling.
shine is playing amazingly well, continually sniping vessels, had a solid base advantage with early hive... defended flash's drop in the main... but flash is still winning through sheer multitasking rape :|
I can't even keep track of everything going on, and flash is simultaneously macroing, dropping, and controlling his army in the center
On July 27 2011 20:47 Jragon wrote: flash losing a lot of vessels
The most recent have been thrown away on purpose. Trading down is a good strategy when you're this far ahead. He just needs them to get irradiates off before dying.
On July 27 2011 20:49 Gamegene wrote: I can't tell if this game is about Flash playing bad but not too bad (cause he's Flash) or Shine playing really well but not well enough.
It's about Shine playing badly. It just took him a while to lose, because he had an insane advantage.
On July 27 2011 20:49 Gamegene wrote: I can't tell if this game is about Flash playing bad but not too bad (cause he's Flash) or Shine playing really well but not well enough.
On July 27 2011 20:49 Gamegene wrote: I can't tell if this game is about Flash playing bad but not too bad (cause he's Flash) or Shine playing really well but not well enough.
It's about Shine playing badly. It just took him a while to lose, because he had an insane advantage.
Shine didn't really play bad, it's just that he couldn't keep up in multi-tasking.
On July 27 2011 20:49 Gamegene wrote: I can't tell if this game is about Flash playing bad but not too bad (cause he's Flash) or Shine playing really well but not well enough.
It's about Shine playing badly. It just took him a while to lose, because he had an insane advantage.
Shine didn't really play bad, it's just that he couldn't keep up in multi-tasking.
HE HAD NOTHING TO MULTI-TASK! The guy was below 80 food and 3 bases the whole game, what the hell was he multi-tasking?!
It didn't really matter that Shine forgot about cracklings, he didn't use lings all that much in the late game since he couldn't make them due to lack of larva. He could have won that game with better macro and the crackling upgrade but...
On July 27 2011 20:49 Gamegene wrote: I can't tell if this game is about Flash playing bad but not too bad (cause he's Flash) or Shine playing really well but not well enough.
It's about Shine playing badly. It just took him a while to lose, because he had an insane advantage.
Shine didn't really play bad, it's just that he couldn't keep up in multi-tasking.
he lost 2 expos to one dropship (of only marines), when not much was really going on other than some jockeying around in the center. Shine really showed some pathetic multi-tasking :l
On July 27 2011 20:49 Gamegene wrote: I can't tell if this game is about Flash playing bad but not too bad (cause he's Flash) or Shine playing really well but not well enough.
It's about Shine playing badly. It just took him a while to lose, because he had an insane advantage.
Shine didn't really play bad, it's just that he couldn't keep up in multi-tasking.
I think it was a bad idea to try to save up for ultras. That took him forever and allowed Flash to establish a reasonable force and foothold, such that once ultras were out, they didn't make much of a difference. I think he should have spent all the ress into lurker/ling/defiler and try to end it. But then, I'm a incredible noob.
yes, flash needed to irradiate the defiler/ultras to make sure he gets the win. when he lost ~4 vessels in the beginning, that was definitely a mistake. flash was just so far ahead as he kept zerg on 3 base...incredible play. the map really didn't allow the zerg to take a easy third/fourth, i'm surprised this map is still in OSL
Flash certainly didnt seem all that on top in that game. He won as usual, but it was as if some other Terran was playing, so many mistakes that he seldom makes... I haven't seen that many games on pathfinder, is it ZvT imbalanced?
anyway, gg Flash! 3-0 through to Ro8
edit: i just saw that pathfinder is like 73% TvZ... So Flash just played poorly...
On July 27 2011 20:53 Eun_Star wrote: yes, flash needed to irradiate the defiler/ultras to make sure he gets the win. when he lost ~4 vessels in the beginning, that was definitely a mistake. flash was just so far ahead as he kept zerg on 3 base...incredible play. the map really didn't allow the zerg to take a easy third/fourth, i'm surprised this map is still in OSL
You need to actually secure your bases, just dropping naked hatches and hoping for the best is not very optimal. He needed lurkers, sunkens and scourge at his fourth. Which he could have done instead of losing his fourth 4 times.
Edit: And if he couldn't afford stationing the gas units there, just make 3 sunkens or something after the creep spreads a bit. Having 2k mins in the bank while trying to secure your fourth and repeatedly failing...
On July 27 2011 20:54 4vvhiplash7 wrote: Flash certainly didnt seem all that on top in that game. He won as usual, but it was as if some other Terran was playing, so many mistakes that he seldom makes... I haven't seen that many games on pathfinder, is it ZvT imbalanced?
Sloppy science vessel control, overeager dropship usage and a few unlucky mine aigoos from Flash but with how many times Shine's 3rd and then later 4th were denied the outcome was never really in doubt.
Bio is always more fun than mech! It seems the constant flow of marines are trading their lives all game long! And when one drop or vessels manages to kill few drones, then the zerg does not have enough larva to redrone.
That game looked a lot better for Shine than it really was because usually, when the Terran gets his midgame army denied as badly as Flash did there, it means an easy fourth gas for the Zerg and subsequent defiler/ultra domination in the lategame. But on Pathfinder, the third doesn't connect with a fourth, and as such the fourth is really easy to deny before it gets running. Shine also poured tons and tons of gas into lurkers and mutas, which delayed his hive tech and limited the hive units he could make even after he got it. Shine never had a big advantage in that game.
Flash played pretty bad I have to say. If he was facing any other zerg I doubt he'd win. The micro was unenthusiastic and sloppy, especially those of the dropped mnms. He lost so much troops unnecessarily due to failure to split his infantry properly, not to say anything about the horrible vessel control. Also his expansion timings were pretty poor. Of course that was due entirely to his wrist, which must have also distracted him from his strategy. Shine on the other hand played awful, floating 2k+ minerals, losing morphing hatcheries to sloppy drops like ten times, and just failed to spend money in a manner worthy of a pro zerg. He just doesn't seem to have the multi-task to play zerg even semi-well beyond the midgame. He was very lucky to have sniped so many vessels, and I doubted he would have gotten even a couple if it wasn't for Flash's wrist. Altogether, this was one of the worst ZvT I've watched this year, and yes it was really that bad.
I think people are being overly critical of Flash's marine control. His SV control was sloppy, but he's been pretty much like that his whole career and it seems to work for him since he gets all the money irradiates, and when you're going 2 port vessel you can kind of afford to let them die if they're out of energy. That said, Flash midgame army was very weak because he made 30 fucking turrets to defend mutas, from there on he used his mnm spectacularly and pretty much deflected everything Shine even tried to attempt. His splits weren't perfect but they were at bad angles and he couldn't just let lurkers walk to his base with swarm in tow.
Also, I seriously doubt Flash sank much practice time into a game versus a bad Zerg on a TvZ imba map that won't be played in the PL finals. Don't read too much into this.
On July 27 2011 21:00 TwoToneTerran wrote: I think people are being overly critical of Flash's marine control. His SV control was sloppy, but he's been pretty much like that his whole career and it seems to work for him since he gets all the money irradiates, and when you're going 2 port vessel you can kind of afford to let them die if they're out of energy. That said, Flash midgame army was very weak because he made 30 fucking turrets to defend mutas, from there on he used his mnm spectacularly and pretty much deflected everything Shine even tried to attempt. His splits weren't perfect but they were at bad angles and he could just let lurkers walk to his base with swarm in tow.
On July 27 2011 21:02 HighTemper wrote: 2 ZvZ incoming... I guess no good game for today...
Jaedong had plenty of time to prepare for this match. I'm sure he'll show us a good game This game will also decide his "condition" on vs Z imo. Should be interesting to watch.
On July 27 2011 21:02 Rodiel3 wrote: How are you suppose to beat Flash haha :D only JD can ! GG
You need to not make any mistakes, defend your bases against drops or vultures and have perfect macro. You know, sort of just play better than Flash ^^
That's why watching Flash lose is probably the most entertaining BW you can watch, because it usually means the winner played a perfect game. Mind games are the other thing that sometimes works on Flash but those are also fun to watch so it's all good.
On July 27 2011 21:02 Rodiel3 wrote: How are you suppose to beat Flash haha :D only JD can ! GG
You need to not make any mistakes, defend your bases against drops or vultures and have perfect macro. You know, sort of just play better than Flash ^^
That's why watching Flash lose is probably the most entertaining BW you can watch, because it usually means the winner played a perfect game. Mind games are the other thing that sometimes works on Flash but those are also fun to watch so it's all good.
tl;dr: Watching Flash lose is fun.
flash tends to be extremely vulnerable to early game aggression, especially as he likes to go risky builds like fast SV, etc.
On July 27 2011 21:02 Rodiel3 wrote: How are you suppose to beat Flash haha :D only JD can ! GG
You need to not make any mistakes, defend your bases against drops or vultures and have perfect macro. You know, sort of just play better than Flash ^^
That's why watching Flash lose is probably the most entertaining BW you can watch, because it usually means the winner played a perfect game. Mind games are the other thing that sometimes works on Flash but those are also fun to watch so it's all good.
tl;dr: Watching Flash lose is fun.
flash tends to be extremely vulnerable to early game aggression, especially as he likes to go risky builds like fast SV, etc.
Flash is most definitely not "extremely vulnerable" to early game aggression, that's just ridiculous. He actually has one of the most resilient early games out there. You can't achieve a 70% win rate with a weak early game.
On July 27 2011 21:08 DropBear wrote: It would be nice to see Killer win. That way Jangbi is still a chance. I like Baby but this OSL needs a protoss hero!
pretty much the same, except for the liking baby bit
On July 27 2011 21:02 Rodiel3 wrote: How are you suppose to beat Flash haha :D only JD can ! GG
You need to not make any mistakes, defend your bases against drops or vultures and have perfect macro. You know, sort of just play better than Flash ^^
That's why watching Flash lose is probably the most entertaining BW you can watch, because it usually means the winner played a perfect game. Mind games are the other thing that sometimes works on Flash but those are also fun to watch so it's all good.
tl;dr: Watching Flash lose is fun.
flash tends to be extremely vulnerable to early game aggression, especially as he likes to go risky builds like fast SV, etc.
Flash is most definitely not "extremely vulnerable" to early game aggression, that's just ridiculous. He actually has one of the most resilient early games out there. You can't achieve a 70% win rate with a weak early game.
you can't get a golden mouse with a weak early game. you can't win OSL and MSL with a weak early game. you can't ...
On July 27 2011 21:02 Rodiel3 wrote: How are you suppose to beat Flash haha :D only JD can ! GG
You need to not make any mistakes, defend your bases against drops or vultures and have perfect macro. You know, sort of just play better than Flash ^^
That's why watching Flash lose is probably the most entertaining BW you can watch, because it usually means the winner played a perfect game. Mind games are the other thing that sometimes works on Flash but those are also fun to watch so it's all good.
tl;dr: Watching Flash lose is fun.
flash tends to be extremely vulnerable to early game aggression, especially as he likes to go risky builds like fast SV, etc.
Flash is most definitely not "extremely vulnerable" to early game aggression, that's just ridiculous. He actually has one of the most resilient early games out there. You can't achieve a 70% win rate with a weak early game.
you can't get a golden mouse with a weak early game. you can't win OSL and MSL with a weak early game. you can't ...
On July 27 2011 21:02 Rodiel3 wrote: How are you suppose to beat Flash haha :D only JD can ! GG
You need to not make any mistakes, defend your bases against drops or vultures and have perfect macro. You know, sort of just play better than Flash ^^
That's why watching Flash lose is probably the most entertaining BW you can watch, because it usually means the winner played a perfect game. Mind games are the other thing that sometimes works on Flash but those are also fun to watch so it's all good.
tl;dr: Watching Flash lose is fun.
flash tends to be extremely vulnerable to early game aggression, especially as he likes to go risky builds like fast SV, etc.
Flash is most definitely not "extremely vulnerable" to early game aggression, that's just ridiculous. He actually has one of the most resilient early games out there. You can't achieve a 70% win rate with a weak early game.
you can't get a golden mouse with a weak early game. you can't win OSL and MSL with a weak early game. you can't ...
Grab early 2 drone advantage with sling runby and muta snipe. Get drone to 5hp. Try to snipe drone and lose 2 muta. Engage down two muta. Lose 2 more and run away your 3 left. Lose two more in chase.
On July 27 2011 21:23 Emperor_Earth wrote: Grab early 2 drone advantage with sling runby and muta snipe. Get drone to 5hp. Try to snipe drone and lose 2 muta. Engage down two muta. Lose 2 more and run away your 3 left. Lose two more in chase.
On July 27 2011 21:23 Emperor_Earth wrote: Grab early 2 drone advantage with sling runby and muta snipe. Get drone to 5hp. Try to snipe drone and lose 2 muta. Engage down two muta. Lose 2 more and run away your 3 left. Lose two more in chase.
What a classic ZvZ anticlimax.
don't forget he forced a sunken
freaking clam
Freaking clam describes it perfectly. x.x
Ever since losing that TvZ series to FlaSh in Ever OSL 09, Clam has resurfaced fairly consistently.
On July 27 2011 21:24 KTF_CloaK wrote: what happens if hyvaa wins? I like upsets ;p
that would put both Hyvaa and Jaedong on 1-2, meaning they get a tiebreaker if Hyuk beats Modesty. If Modesty wins JD and Hyvaa would both be knocked out
On July 27 2011 21:47 Malinor wrote: What the fuck is Wrong with him, he is not winning a single big muta-battle lately.
This is just atrocious to watch.
It's true that his muta micro hasn't been as solid as it used to be, but you have to consider that it was 12 pool vs 12 hatch. hyvaa had a superior air army.
you need to understand, the sunken was not in the best of positions. it was a huge factor that gave this other zerg guy (honestly idk who he is) the win. muta micro was also not the best...
On July 27 2011 21:47 Malinor wrote: What the fuck is Wrong with him, he is not winning a single big muta-battle lately.
This is just atrocious to watch.
It's true that his muta micro hasn't been as solid as it used to be, but you have to consider that it was 12 pool vs 12 hatch. hyvaa had a superior air army.
But he killed some mutas at the beginning. JD is loosing every muta fight. His muta control is shit.
On July 27 2011 21:48 KasdaTheEmperor wrote: JD's ZvZ is soo shaky, it's not even funny. Why does he always first make scourges and then he is low on mutalisks?
It's just a confidence issue. He has no confidence left in his ZvZ after his BO5s against Zero and Hydra. Hydra won with better muta control, Zero won with 9pools. So now JD does 12pools on 4 players maps where he won't have a lot of mutas and won't get killed by 9pools...
On July 27 2011 21:51 Eun_Star wrote: i don't think it was a bo loss, when jaedong defended zerglings at his nat, the game was up and ready to go. he just fucked up muta micro.
On July 27 2011 21:47 Malinor wrote: What the fuck is Wrong with him, he is not winning a single big muta-battle lately.
This is just atrocious to watch.
It's true that his muta micro hasn't been as solid as it used to be, but you have to consider that it was 12 pool vs 12 hatch. hyvaa had a superior air army.
He sniped 2 mutas with 2 pairs of scourge early, the supplies were fairly even, plus his lings killed maybe 1-2 drones? I obviously cannot say for certain, but it seemed to me that he again took more scourge hits while retreating than Hyvaa did. It was again just pretty bad control in my book.
On July 27 2011 21:47 Malinor wrote: What the fuck is Wrong with him, he is not winning a single big muta-battle lately.
This is just atrocious to watch.
It's true that his muta micro hasn't been as solid as it used to be, but you have to consider that it was 12 pool vs 12 hatch. hyvaa had a superior air army.
JD sniped 2 of hyvaa's early mutas with scourges.
The key of the match is the snipe of Nat Extractor by hyvaa's lings.
On July 27 2011 21:53 hitthat wrote: so many bitching about BO adv and nobody noticed great extractor snipe by hyvaa?
I was quite impressed with that move by hyvaa. even when jd brought his lings to engage and draw hyvaa's lings into the sunken range, hyvaa backed up and resumed the extractor snipe. very smart
On July 27 2011 21:55 shadymmj wrote: so can someone please enlighten me of the possible scenarios now? what happens if hyuk/modesty wins, etc.? thanks in advance.
I understand that it is very easy to be extremely harsh with his zvz, it surely is a matchup were you easily can get 5-6 bad beats by build-orders or bad luck in a row. But by now this is not coincidence anymore. He lost every muta-battle during the 2-3 against Hydra, went 4x12hatch against zer0 and messed up the one game where it was 12h vs 12h really really bad. And falling back to 12pool all the time is really not the way to go. It is just predictable and more a trick of all trades built the way he is playing it. He simply has lost his zvz magic, and it hurts too watch.
edit: Not to mention that his muta-control is looking sub-par even when he wins at the moment. It is just all around sloppy.
On July 27 2011 21:47 Malinor wrote: What the fuck is Wrong with him, he is not winning a single big muta-battle lately.
This is just atrocious to watch.
It's true that his muta micro hasn't been as solid as it used to be, but you have to consider that it was 12 pool vs 12 hatch. hyvaa had a superior air army.
JD sniped 2 of hyvaa's early mutas with scourges.
The key of the match is the snipe of Nat Extractor by hyvaa's lings.
Rotational symmetry... gotta love it. JD should have gone for a 12 hatch though, there's really no reason not to on a 4 player map. Only about 50% chance your opponent will find you with a 9pool and even then, it's not impossible to defend, especially against fucking Hyvaa...
the sunken was in a standard position, it is just a sucky position and jaedong didn't pay attention to the nat for like 3 seconds and he killed the gas T_T also i think he lost his 6 lings too early after that
On July 27 2011 21:53 Spica wrote: Loool, so Jaedong fans will have to cheer for Captain Hyuk eh...
Looking forward to it then. |D
I'm sure Hyuk will lose to Modesty, but even "if", what the fuck do you expect to win with such a play? Just being realistic, JD is going nowhere, guess good old days of solid ZvZ wins long gone.
i don't think hyuk will try to win....if he loses, it's one less tough opponent to go against. maybe hyuk will win for the hell of it, and i'm definitely hoping JD will advance.
Right now I'm looking at JDs ZvZ Records and games. It's depressing when you see the old pages just filled with win, win, win. And lately all I've seen are losses
On July 27 2011 21:56 Malinor wrote: I understand that it is very easy to be extremely harsh with his zvz, it surely is a matchup were you easily can get 5-6 bad beats by build-orders or bad luck in a row. But by now this is not coincidence anymore. He lost every muta-battle during the 2-3 against Hydra, went 4x12hatch against zer0 and messed up the one game where it was 12h vs 12h really really bad. And falling back to 12pool all the time is really not the way to go. It is just predictable and more a trick of all trades built the way he is playing it. He simply has lost his zvz magic, and it hurts too watch.
edit: Not to mention that his muta-control is looking suppar even when he wins at the moment. It is just all around sloppy.
I agree, JvZ is no more! Sad, but true. Let's just hope Hyuk destroys modesty so jd can have at least some chance of advancing
BO disadvantages haven't made Jaedong one of the worst ZvZ players around, it is his disastrous mutalisk micro. Watch any ZvZ from him in the past 6 months and compare that to his micro in 2009. All Jaedong does now is suicide mutalisks into enemy scourges and fail to send his scourges fast enough into the opponents mutalisks.
On July 27 2011 21:56 Malinor wrote: I understand that it is very easy to be extremely harsh with his zvz, it surely is a matchup were you easily can get 5-6 bad beats by build-orders or bad luck in a row. But by now this is not coincidence anymore. He lost every muta-battle during the 2-3 against Hydra, went 4x12hatch against zer0 and messed up the one game where it was 12h vs 12h really really bad. And falling back to 12pool all the time is really not the way to go. It is just predictable and more a trick of all trades built the way he is playing it. He simply has lost his zvz magic, and it hurts too watch.
edit: Not to mention that his muta-control is looking suppar even when he wins at the moment. It is just all around sloppy.
On July 27 2011 21:53 Spica wrote: Loool, so Jaedong fans will have to cheer for Captain Hyuk eh...
Looking forward to it then. |D
I'm sure Hyuk will lose to Modesty, but even "if", what the fuck do you expect to win with such a play? Just being realistic, JD is going nowhere, guess good old days of solid ZvZ wins long gone.
The real question is how he can have a (5 game?) winning streak against arguably the greatest progamer of all time and lose to a bad player like Hyvaa.
Just goes to show that ZvZ is indeed a shit matchup.
On July 27 2011 21:53 Spica wrote: Loool, so Jaedong fans will have to cheer for Captain Hyuk eh...
Looking forward to it then. |D
I'm sure Hyuk will lose to Modesty, but even "if", what the fuck do you expect to win with such a play? Just being realistic, JD is going nowhere, guess good old days of solid ZvZ wins long gone.
The real question is how he can have a (5 game?) winning streak against arguably the greatest progamer of all time and lose to a bad player like Hyvaa.
Just goes to show that ZvZ is indeed a shit matchup.
On July 27 2011 21:53 Spica wrote: Loool, so Jaedong fans will have to cheer for Captain Hyuk eh...
Looking forward to it then. |D
I'm sure Hyuk will lose to Modesty, but even "if", what the fuck do you expect to win with such a play? Just being realistic, JD is going nowhere, guess good old days of solid ZvZ wins long gone.
Those days were when JD had such a huge gap in skill to other Zergs that negates BO advantage. Now other Zergs have step up their games...
Sucks to be a guy who said "if JD will not advance i will cut my arm". Now hope for Hyuk to win (and than JD good play in tie breakers) or...better buy some painkillers, you gonna need this.
On July 27 2011 21:58 KTF_CloaK wrote: If I was Hyuk I would lose intentionally so I would advance 100 % (else he would be in tiebreakers)
If he wins he advances 3-0
The only thing Hyuk should care about is getting to not play Flash, which he should be able to do by winning against Modesty. If he loses, he'll play Flash, Killer or Fantasy, so I'm pretty sure he's motivated enough. But, we shall see. I believe in Hyuk! :D
Edit: When would tie-breakers take place, should they happen?
On July 27 2011 21:55 KTF_CloaK wrote: i think modesty is gonna beat hyuk fairly easy, he is a ZvZ sniper after all...
but then JD is out with hyvaa?
JD beat Modesty and lost to Hyuk. It's ZvZ, luck is a pretty big factor. And Hyuk isn't exactly bad at ZvZ either.
even if it is zvz, watching hyvaa play there made me sad
he can barely micro mutas vs scourge. i wouldn't put it all down to luck.
no, but he did make a very smart tactical decision and had good execution to take down the extractor. he controlled his lings well, lost none unnecessarily (i think?) until the extractor was down.
it is easy to fault jd + BO but sometimes these small mistakes end up being much huger than you think. it is very easy to criticise from a retrospective point of view but these things escape many people when you're concentrating on something else.
how many people could have seen the extractor snipe was possible before hyvaa did it?
On July 27 2011 21:58 KTF_CloaK wrote: If I was Hyuk I would lose intentionally so I would advance 100 % (else he would be in tiebreakers)
If he wins he advances 3-0
Plus, if he loses I think he'd advance as #2, and run a great risk of playing Flash or Fantasy in the Ro8. I don't think he's going to throw the match.
I really hope he wins... but my hopes for Jaedong advancing from a tiebreakers aren't that high at this point. He just seems to have lost it in ZvZ.
Why reading the "if Hyuk wins, then there will be tiebreakers, so there are still some chances" I always feel like I'm a football fan of some lowlevel team.
On July 27 2011 21:55 KTF_CloaK wrote: i think modesty is gonna beat hyuk fairly easy, he is a ZvZ sniper after all...
but then JD is out with hyvaa?
JD beat Modesty and lost to Hyuk. It's ZvZ, luck is a pretty big factor. And Hyuk isn't exactly bad at ZvZ either.
even if it is zvz, watching hyvaa play there made me sad
he can barely micro mutas vs scourge. i wouldn't put it all down to luck.
no, but he did make a very smart tactical decision and had good execution to take down the extractor. he controlled his lings well, lost none unnecessarily (i think?) until the extractor was down.
it is easy to fault jd + BO but sometimes these small mistakes end up being much huger than you think. it is very easy to criticise from a retrospective point of view but these things escape many people when you're concentrating on something else.
how many people could have seen the extractor snipe was possible before hyvaa did it?
He chased JD's lings past the sunken after winning the ling battle near the extractor, unnecessarily losing a bunch in the process. As a result, he had to retreat and give up on the extractor until reinforcements arrived from his base. If that had been a round of drones instead of lings, he wouldn't have been able to kill the extractor at all, but then again he may have overextended with the knowledge that reinforcements were coming and that he would get the extractor in the end anyway.
So what do they do then? I can't see an obvious tiebreaker that doesn't involve another set of games. Or is there a losers bracket round or something?
It's a tiebreaker with 3 people. they play a round robin essentially (3 games), and if someone wins both his games, he advances. If everyone ends up 1-1, they play again. And again.
So what do they do then? I can't see an obvious tiebreaker that doesn't involve another set of games. Or is there a losers bracket round or something?
It's a tiebreaker with 3 people. they play a round robin essentially (3 games), and if someone wins both his games, he advances. If everyone ends up 1-1, they play again. And again.
..and again.. and again.. and then effort's mouse breaks.
So what do they do then? I can't see an obvious tiebreaker that doesn't involve another set of games. Or is there a losers bracket round or something?
It's a tiebreaker with 3 people. they play a round robin essentially (3 games), and if someone wins both his games, he advances. If everyone ends up 1-1, they play again. And again.
..and again.. and again.. and then effort's mouse breaks.
So what do they do then? I can't see an obvious tiebreaker that doesn't involve another set of games. Or is there a losers bracket round or something?
It's a tiebreaker with 3 people. they play a round robin essentially (3 games), and if someone wins both his games, he advances. If everyone ends up 1-1, they play again. And again.
..and again.. and again.. and then effort's mouse breaks.
And it was the worst day of starcraft. Ever.
I thought MBCGame going down or matchfixing was the worst day of starcraft?
Even if Hyuk were to win his group and avoid the other 3-0 players, he'd be playing against players like Hydra/SoO/Baby. I don't think he could take any of those series'. Maybe SoO...
On July 27 2011 22:30 Gescom wrote: Even if Hyuk were to win his group and avoid the other 3-0 players, he'd be playing against players like Hydra/SoO/Baby. I don't think he could take any of those series'. Maybe SoO...
So what do they do then? I can't see an obvious tiebreaker that doesn't involve another set of games. Or is there a losers bracket round or something?
It's a tiebreaker with 3 people. they play a round robin essentially (3 games), and if someone wins both his games, he advances. If everyone ends up 1-1, they play again. And again.
..and again.. and again.. and then effort's mouse breaks.
The VOD may not remain, but the LR thread details the great suffering that took place that day:
On April 16 2009 16:22 Orbifold wrote: Shine maneuvers his battle cruisers, then gets married and has a child before cleaning the dust off his keyboard.
Canata finishes a best selling novel, and is now about half way though its sequel. Then he EMPs something.
On April 16 2009 16:30 Orbifold wrote: Canata gets off a good EMP before pulling back, western civilization collapses. Season after season passes and within 5 generations mankind has reverted to a simple hunter gatherer life style. The game continues and the local tribes begin a religion in which the battle booths are gods.
So what do they do then? I can't see an obvious tiebreaker that doesn't involve another set of games. Or is there a losers bracket round or something?
It's a tiebreaker with 3 people. they play a round robin essentially (3 games), and if someone wins both his games, he advances. If everyone ends up 1-1, they play again. And again.
..and again.. and again.. and then effort's mouse breaks.
And it was the worst day of starcraft. Ever.
I thought MBCGame going down or matchfixing was the worst day of starcraft?
So what do they do then? I can't see an obvious tiebreaker that doesn't involve another set of games. Or is there a losers bracket round or something?
It's a tiebreaker with 3 people. they play a round robin essentially (3 games), and if someone wins both his games, he advances. If everyone ends up 1-1, they play again. And again.
..and again.. and again.. and then effort's mouse breaks.
On April 16 2009 16:22 Orbifold wrote: Shine maneuvers his battle cruisers, then gets married and has a child before cleaning the dust off his keyboard.
Canata finishes a best selling novel, and is now about half way though its sequel. Then he EMPs something.
On April 16 2009 16:30 Orbifold wrote: Canata gets off a good EMP before pulling back, western civilization collapses. Season after season passes and within 5 generations mankind has reverted to a simple hunter gatherer life style. The game continues and the local tribes begin a religion in which the battle booths are gods.
wow i had no idea soo has been around for so long ahaha, the more you know <~~~
On July 27 2011 23:12 vance wrote: So, there is a chance that Fantasy vs Hyuk in ro8. Plz, make it happen, lol
well it will happen eventually, there is just no way around it. hyuk will just keep winning until he hits fanta ;D
So what do they do then? I can't see an obvious tiebreaker that doesn't involve another set of games. Or is there a losers bracket round or something?
It's a tiebreaker with 3 people. they play a round robin essentially (3 games), and if someone wins both his games, he advances. If everyone ends up 1-1, they play again. And again.
..and again.. and again.. and then effort's mouse breaks.
On April 16 2009 16:22 Orbifold wrote: Shine maneuvers his battle cruisers, then gets married and has a child before cleaning the dust off his keyboard.
Canata finishes a best selling novel, and is now about half way though its sequel. Then he EMPs something.
On April 16 2009 16:30 Orbifold wrote: Canata gets off a good EMP before pulling back, western civilization collapses. Season after season passes and within 5 generations mankind has reverted to a simple hunter gatherer life style. The game continues and the local tribes begin a religion in which the battle booths are gods.
I remember that game, the VOD is gone? That's like losing the last copy of the Star Wars Holiday Special, IV1/2. (It's on google video)
On related topic expressed in this thread, I thought TvT was the worst matchup until wraiths became so popular. Now it's definitely ZvZ, until such time hive tech play starts occurring in at least one of every three games.
On July 27 2011 23:12 vance wrote: So, there is a chance that Fantasy vs Hyuk in ro8. Plz, make it happen, lol
This. It better happen.
Fantasy v Hyuk happened in the RO8 last time and was a mess. I don't want to see Hyuk go through that again, even for Fantasy's benefit. I'd rather see Fantasy win some tough games right now.
On July 28 2011 02:37 _romantic wrote: First Bisu, now Jaedong... Hyvaa is crushing dreams left and right this OSL
EDIT:
Would be sick if he beat Flash and won it all. Have not seen that kind of road since ForGG
He has beaten Flash in the OSL before. It wouldn't surprise me to see it happen again. Ofc, hyuk would have to win for this to happen. Not many people crush dreams by going 1-2.
Stork is long gone from OSL, right? (i.e. no chance anymore) ;;
Actually Flash winning today saved Stork; if he had lost it would have been Shine and him advancing, but now Shine might have to play a 3-way tiebreaker to advance if Stork wins his game tomorrow.
Stork is long gone from OSL, right? (i.e. no chance anymore) ;;
stork still can save himself. he has to win against hydra, then its a 3-way tiebreaker between him, hydra and shine. if he prevails there, he could still move on. jaedong on the other hand has to hope that hyuk beats modesty, then he also enters a tiebreaker.
Stork is long gone from OSL, right? (i.e. no chance anymore) ;;
stork still can save himself. he has to win against hydra, then its a 3-way tiebreaker between him, hydra and shine. if he prevails there, he could still move on. jaedong on the other hand has to hope that hyuk beats modesty, then he also enters a tiebreaker.
if stork loses, then jangbi is the last protoss hope in this osl
Stork is long gone from OSL, right? (i.e. no chance anymore) ;;
stork still can save himself. he has to win against hydra, then its a 3-way tiebreaker between him, hydra and shine. if he prevails there, he could still move on. jaedong on the other hand has to hope that hyuk beats modesty, then he also enters a tiebreaker.
if stork loses, then jangbi is the last protoss hope in this osl
That's as good as saying that there is no protoss hope in the OSL.
Stork is long gone from OSL, right? (i.e. no chance anymore) ;;
stork still can save himself. he has to win against hydra, then its a 3-way tiebreaker between him, hydra and shine. if he prevails there, he could still move on. jaedong on the other hand has to hope that hyuk beats modesty, then he also enters a tiebreaker.
if stork loses, then jangbi is the last protoss hope in this osl
That's as good as saying that there is no protoss hope in the OSL.
I remember the days of the Protoss dragons and BW threads would often have "storms imba" and the like. Sigh...
Stork is long gone from OSL, right? (i.e. no chance anymore) ;;
stork still can save himself. he has to win against hydra, then its a 3-way tiebreaker between him, hydra and shine. if he prevails there, he could still move on. jaedong on the other hand has to hope that hyuk beats modesty, then he also enters a tiebreaker.
if stork loses, then jangbi is the last protoss hope in this osl
That's as good as saying that there is no protoss hope in the OSL.
I remember the days of the Protoss dragons and BW threads would often have "storms imba" and the like. Sigh...
Yeah, but there never has been a protoss bonjwa, even T___T
I guess I'm cheering for Hyuk then, although if I were him I'd seriously consider letting Modesty win. He'd probably prefer to have Modesty in the tournament than Jaedong, and it's all in his hands now
The OSL groups would be less broken if there were some way that the players didn't know each others' results until the group were over... but that's impossible I guess.
On July 28 2011 03:56 m4gdelen4 wrote: So Jaedong is 1-2 right now? Could someone explain the situation with his chances of advancing? thanks!
Player A is 3-0
Player B is 1-1
Player C is 1-2
Player D is 0-2
In this case JD is player C, and if D > B then we have 3 players with 1-2 records and Jaedong can enter a tiebreaker.
umm. Where you get those stats? Hyuk 2-0 modesty 1-1 Jaedong 1-2 Hyvaa 1-2
If hyuk>modest, lower rung tiebreaker in which one person must win against the other two to advance.
If modesty > hyuk, hyuk and modest advance and jaedong is out.
Don't worry JD fans, Hyuk will want to beat modesty so he can get 1st seed and avoid Flash. In other news, if hyuk does win and jaedong wins the tiebreaker, then JD vs Flash in ro8, just like Ever OSL.
Stork is long gone from OSL, right? (i.e. no chance anymore) ;;
stork still can save himself. he has to win against hydra, then its a 3-way tiebreaker between him, hydra and shine. if he prevails there, he could still move on. jaedong on the other hand has to hope that hyuk beats modesty, then he also enters a tiebreaker.
if stork loses, then jangbi is the last protoss hope in this osl
On July 27 2011 23:04 Dubzex wrote: Jaedong I want you to win this OSL because Bisu won't win another. Just need Hyuk to win and we go into some tiebreakers. Otherwise JD is screwed.
On July 28 2011 03:56 m4gdelen4 wrote: So Jaedong is 1-2 right now? Could someone explain the situation with his chances of advancing? thanks!
Player A is 3-0
Player B is 1-1
Player C is 1-2
Player D is 0-2
In this case JD is player C, and if D > B then we have 3 players with 1-2 records and Jaedong can enter a tiebreaker.
umm. Where you get those stats? Hyuk 2-0 modesty 1-1 Jaedong 1-2 Hyvaa 1-2
If hyuk>modest, lower rung tiebreaker in which one person must win against the other two to advance.
If modesty > hyuk, hyuk and modest advance and jaedong is out.
Don't worry JD fans, Hyuk will want to beat modesty so he can get 1st seed and avoid Flash. In other news, if hyuk does win and jaedong wins the tiebreaker, then JD vs Flash in ro8, just like Ever OSL.
Woops... you're right. Was reading Group B results by accident.
On July 27 2011 23:04 Dubzex wrote: Jaedong I want you to win this OSL because Bisu won't win another. Just need Hyuk to win and we go into some tiebreakers. Otherwise JD is screwed.
On July 28 2011 03:56 m4gdelen4 wrote: So Jaedong is 1-2 right now? Could someone explain the situation with his chances of advancing? thanks!
Player A is 3-0
Player B is 1-1
Player C is 1-2
Player D is 0-2
In this case JD is player C, and if D > B then we have 3 players with 1-2 records and Jaedong can enter a tiebreaker.
umm. Where you get those stats? Hyuk 2-0 modesty 1-1 Jaedong 1-2 Hyvaa 1-2
If hyuk>modest, lower rung tiebreaker in which one person must win against the other two to advance.
If modesty > hyuk, hyuk and modest advance and jaedong is out.
Don't worry JD fans, Hyuk will want to beat modesty so he can get 1st seed and avoid Flash. In other news, if hyuk does win and jaedong wins the tiebreaker, then JD vs Flash in ro8, just like Ever OSL.
Actually that's really comforting --- that's a terrific reason for Hyuk to want to beat Modesty. However, it's very disappointing that the LeeSsang will meet again in the Ro8. The only players who are good finals material are Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Hydra (maybe), and Fantasy. Apparently either Jaedong or Flash is guaranteed to be out by the Ro4, even though they already ran into each other in the ODT
On July 28 2011 03:56 m4gdelen4 wrote: So Jaedong is 1-2 right now? Could someone explain the situation with his chances of advancing? thanks!
Player A is 3-0
Player B is 1-1
Player C is 1-2
Player D is 0-2
In this case JD is player C, and if D > B then we have 3 players with 1-2 records and Jaedong can enter a tiebreaker.
umm. Where you get those stats? Hyuk 2-0 modesty 1-1 Jaedong 1-2 Hyvaa 1-2
If hyuk>modest, lower rung tiebreaker in which one person must win against the other two to advance.
If modesty > hyuk, hyuk and modest advance and jaedong is out.
Don't worry JD fans, Hyuk will want to beat modesty so he can get 1st seed and avoid Flash. In other news, if hyuk does win and jaedong wins the tiebreaker, then JD vs Flash in ro8, just like Ever OSL.
Actually that's really comforting --- that's a terrific reason for Hyuk to want to beat Modesty. However, it's very disappointing that the LeeSsang will meet again in the Ro8. The only players who are good finals material are Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Hydra (maybe), and Fantasy. Apparently either Jaedong or Flash is guaranteed to be out by the Ro4, even though they already ran into each other in the ODT
Well that kinda sucks. Why doesn't OSL reseed based on KeSPA ranks or something?
On July 28 2011 04:14 Release wrote: In other news, if hyuk does win and jaedong wins the tiebreaker, then JD vs Flash in ro8, just like Ever OSL.
The OSL randomly seeds the Ro8 so JD vs Flash would be possible but not certain.
Then I guess Hyuk doesn't have a motivation to beat Modesty? With SPL finals looming, I'm not sure how much leeway the coaches at SKT will give to the players to practice for individual leagues.
On July 28 2011 04:14 Release wrote: In other news, if hyuk does win and jaedong wins the tiebreaker, then JD vs Flash in ro8, just like Ever OSL.
The OSL randomly seeds the Ro8 so JD vs Flash would be possible but not certain.
Then I guess Hyuk doesn't have a motivation to beat Modesty? With SPL finals looming, I'm not sure how much leeway the coaches at SKT will give to the players to practice for individual leagues.
Hyuk still has motivation to beat Modesty. If he loses to Modesty, he will face a random choice of Flash, Fantasy, and Killer. That's a 2/3 chance of a horrible painful exit for him.
Here's what needs to happen for optimal fanboy satisfaction: 1) Hyuk beats Modesty (Ro16) 2) Jaedong beats Hyvaa and Modesty (Tiebreak). 3) Jaedong gets assigned to Killer (Ro8) and beats him 2-1 in close games. Result: Jaedong advances, Killer feels like rainbows and daisies and clouds for the rest of his life because he won against Jaedong hyung in the Starleague! O.O (<--- this is how Killer looks at JD.) 4) JungBangLeeSsang -OR- JangBangLeeSsang (Ro4).
Modesty is pretty good ZvZ, no? I dont see how Jaedong can possibly get out of his group, and even if he does, he aint making the RO4 for sure. I dont know how the seeding works but unless Stork gets lucky, I smell TvT finals between Fanta and Flash. And this pleases me greatly.
On July 28 2011 03:56 m4gdelen4 wrote: So Jaedong is 1-2 right now? Could someone explain the situation with his chances of advancing? thanks!
Player A is 3-0
Player B is 1-1
Player C is 1-2
Player D is 0-2
In this case JD is player C, and if D > B then we have 3 players with 1-2 records and Jaedong can enter a tiebreaker.
umm. Where you get those stats? Hyuk 2-0 modesty 1-1 Jaedong 1-2 Hyvaa 1-2
If hyuk>modest, lower rung tiebreaker in which one person must win against the other two to advance.
If modesty > hyuk, hyuk and modest advance and jaedong is out.
Don't worry JD fans, Hyuk will want to beat modesty so he can get 1st seed and avoid Flash. In other news, if hyuk does win and jaedong wins the tiebreaker, then JD vs Flash in ro8, just like Ever OSL.
Actually that's really comforting --- that's a terrific reason for Hyuk to want to beat Modesty. However, it's very disappointing that the LeeSsang will meet again in the Ro8. The only players who are good finals material are Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Hydra (maybe), and Fantasy. Apparently either Jaedong or Flash is guaranteed to be out by the Ro4, even though they already ran into each other in the ODT
Stork? The guy who's 0-2 and lost to freaking shine? Good finals material? You best be trolling.
On July 28 2011 04:14 Release wrote: In other news, if hyuk does win and jaedong wins the tiebreaker, then JD vs Flash in ro8, just like Ever OSL.
The OSL randomly seeds the Ro8 so JD vs Flash would be possible but not certain.
Then I guess Hyuk doesn't have a motivation to beat Modesty? With SPL finals looming, I'm not sure how much leeway the coaches at SKT will give to the players to practice for individual leagues.
Hyuk still has motivation to beat Modesty. If he loses to Modesty, he will face a random choice of Flash, Fantasy, and Killer. That's a 2/3 chance of a horrible painful exit for him.
Here's what needs to happen for optimal fanboy satisfaction: 1) Hyuk beats Modesty (Ro16) 2) Jaedong beats Hyvaa and Modesty (Tiebreak). 3) Jaedong gets assigned to Killer (Ro8) and beats him 2-1 in close games. Result: Jaedong advances, Killer feels like rainbows and daisies and clouds for the rest of his life because he won against Jaedong hyung in the Starleague! O.O (<--- this is how Killer looks at JD.) 4) JungBangLeeSsang -OR- JangBangLeeSsang (Ro4).
1. Yes 2. Possible 3. Hopefully, less zerg 4. My ass. You seriously think JangBi has a shot at this OSL? He's 0-2 for crying out loud.
On July 28 2011 08:28 red4ce wrote: Starting with the series against Hydra in the pdpop MSL, JD is now 14-14 in his last 28 ZvZ. I think JvZ is definitely gone.
The common claim is that JvZ ended after the loss to Hyuk in the PL grand finals back in 09, but recently, it's become simple BO wins and losses, and around 50% wins of same BO.
On July 28 2011 03:56 m4gdelen4 wrote: So Jaedong is 1-2 right now? Could someone explain the situation with his chances of advancing? thanks!
Player A is 3-0
Player B is 1-1
Player C is 1-2
Player D is 0-2
In this case JD is player C, and if D > B then we have 3 players with 1-2 records and Jaedong can enter a tiebreaker.
umm. Where you get those stats? Hyuk 2-0 modesty 1-1 Jaedong 1-2 Hyvaa 1-2
If hyuk>modest, lower rung tiebreaker in which one person must win against the other two to advance.
If modesty > hyuk, hyuk and modest advance and jaedong is out.
Don't worry JD fans, Hyuk will want to beat modesty so he can get 1st seed and avoid Flash. In other news, if hyuk does win and jaedong wins the tiebreaker, then JD vs Flash in ro8, just like Ever OSL.
Actually that's really comforting --- that's a terrific reason for Hyuk to want to beat Modesty. However, it's very disappointing that the LeeSsang will meet again in the Ro8. The only players who are good finals material are Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Hydra (maybe), and Fantasy. Apparently either Jaedong or Flash is guaranteed to be out by the Ro4, even though they already ran into each other in the ODT
Stork? The guy who's 0-2 and lost to freaking shine? Good finals material? You best be trolling.
Welcome to TL! I see you joined last month, which explains why you seem unfamiliar with anything prior to this OSL. I can assure you that Stork is a boss and he's been in several very exciting finals. His MSL series against Bisu went to 5 spectacular games; likewise for his GSI series against Flash. He defeated Fantasy in their first OSL encounter in an amazing series. Stork would deliver a better finals than anyone outside Flash, Jaedong, Fantasy, and possibly Hydra.
He still has a chance of advancing, although he needs to beat Hydra and then get through the tiebreak. It's possible.
On July 28 2011 08:17 djbhINDI wrote: My ass
... really doesn't need to be in this thread, thanks.
Anyway, those weren't predictions, in case you didn't notice; JBLS finals (with J=Fanta or Jangbi) is just what I'm hoping for. (Edit: And Jangbi is still in the OSL despite being 0-2.)
On July 28 2011 03:56 m4gdelen4 wrote: So Jaedong is 1-2 right now? Could someone explain the situation with his chances of advancing? thanks!
Player A is 3-0
Player B is 1-1
Player C is 1-2
Player D is 0-2
In this case JD is player C, and if D > B then we have 3 players with 1-2 records and Jaedong can enter a tiebreaker.
umm. Where you get those stats? Hyuk 2-0 modesty 1-1 Jaedong 1-2 Hyvaa 1-2
If hyuk>modest, lower rung tiebreaker in which one person must win against the other two to advance.
If modesty > hyuk, hyuk and modest advance and jaedong is out.
Don't worry JD fans, Hyuk will want to beat modesty so he can get 1st seed and avoid Flash. In other news, if hyuk does win and jaedong wins the tiebreaker, then JD vs Flash in ro8, just like Ever OSL.
Actually that's really comforting --- that's a terrific reason for Hyuk to want to beat Modesty. However, it's very disappointing that the LeeSsang will meet again in the Ro8. The only players who are good finals material are Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Hydra (maybe), and Fantasy. Apparently either Jaedong or Flash is guaranteed to be out by the Ro4, even though they already ran into each other in the ODT
Stork? The guy who's 0-2 and lost to freaking shine? Good finals material? You best be trolling.
Listen, I don't like Stork either but you are a joke. Let me point out your logical fallacy You point out that Stork lost to Shine, but that's irrelevant because Shine is the best + Show Spoiler +
Also, Bisu much? Go back to sc2, you clearly don't know what you are talking about
So is the pairing in Ro8 determined already. I thought it was random, any player who was 1st in their respective group can be matched with any player who was 2nd in their group. So why is everyone saying that Hyuk will face Flash if he loses?
And hyvaa didn't ruin OSL. It is as ridiculous as blaming Shine for Stork's and Bisu's losses. The only person who you can blame is Jaedong in this case.
Its better for there to be modesty going deep in leagues than reach, quite frankly. Why? Cause reach sucks, and he'd never actually get that far except dumb luck. If Jaedong cant get out of a simple zvz group of which there is only one competent zvz player [modesty] than I highly doubt hed actually be in enough form to get past any good zerg he meets. Who knows where his zvt/zvp are at anyway, hes fluctuated so dramatically over the last year. At the end of the day: The OSL is better with high skilled, famous and congenial players going far. Sometimes the famous and respected players dont always match up with the best.
On July 28 2011 09:11 Elefanto wrote: hyvaa, ruining osl for everyone >: (
yes, how dare a progamer win a game! its not like its his job or anything..
No one's saying he should just roll over and lose, but it's silly to think that the OSL is better for having anyone of hyvaa/modesty/hyuk over JD.
Better for who? I don't mind having Modesty, hyvaa or jaedong personally. I'd be happy to see STX take another title after so long.
And with everything thats been happening with STX lately, making deep runs in leagues might help convince management for the better.
Better for the vast majority of fans? Jaedong is clearly a better player against the field, a more hype and crowd drawing player, and will overall raise the quality of the Ro8 if he makes it. I completely understand rooting for players of a certain team, though.
On July 28 2011 09:11 Elefanto wrote: hyvaa, ruining osl for everyone >: (
yes, how dare a progamer win a game! its not like its his job or anything..
No one's saying he should just roll over and lose, but it's silly to think that the OSL is better for having anyone of hyvaa/modesty/hyuk over JD.
Better for who? I don't mind having Modesty, hyvaa or jaedong personally. I'd be happy to see STX take another title after so long.
And with everything thats been happening with STX lately, making deep runs in leagues might help convince management for the better.
Better for the vast majority of fans? Jaedong is clearly a better player against the field, a more hype and crowd drawing player, and will overall raise the quality of the Ro8 if he makes it. I completely understand rooting for players of a certain team, though.
TTT I think it's also critical here to make sure that smaller teams' management can at least see their players getting results, as cliche as that sounds. With MSL disappearing the last thing we need is less diversity in teamleagues as well as individual leagues.
And yes, even if that means Flash or Jaedong losing a league or crashing out in Ro4, that's fine--in the long run not even God or the Tyrant can survive without an ecosystem around them
On July 28 2011 18:30 Dark2Bright wrote: Can anyone explain for me what is "BO disadvantage" ?
Build order disadvantage. Like in ZvZ, if you 12hatch while your opponent 9pools, you have a severe BO disadvantage. If your opponent 12pools however, he has the BO disadvantage
On July 28 2011 18:30 Dark2Bright wrote: Can anyone explain for me what is "BO disadvantage" ?
Each build order (BO) has times when it's strong and when it's weak. For instance a 14CC (where a terran expands before any production buildings) is weak very early on and past a certain point it becomes strong. An opposite type build is a 4 pool (where a z makes a pool with one of his initial 4 drones). This build is very strong early on but if the game doesn't end it becomes weak later on.
In a hypothetical TvZ where the T 14CC'd and the Z 4 pooled we could say that the terran is at an extreme BO disadvantage and the Z has a BO advantage.
On July 28 2011 18:30 Dark2Bright wrote: Can anyone explain for me what is "BO disadvantage" ?
Each build order (BO) has times when it's strong and when it's weak. For instance a 14CC (where a terran expands before any production buildings) is weak very early on and past a certain point it becomes strong. An opposite type build is a 4 pool (where a z makes a pool with one of his initial 4 drones). This build is very strong early on but if the game doesn't end it becomes weak later on.
In a hypothetical TvZ where the T 14CC'd and the Z 4 pooled we could say that the terran is at an extreme BO disadvantage and the Z has a BO advantage.
On July 28 2011 18:30 Dark2Bright wrote: Can anyone explain for me what is "BO disadvantage" ?
Each build order (BO) has times when it's strong and when it's weak. For instance a 14CC (where a terran expands before any production buildings) is weak very early on and past a certain point it becomes strong. An opposite type build is a 4 pool (where a z makes a pool with one of his initial 4 drones). This build is very strong early on but if the game doesn't end it becomes weak later on.
In a hypothetical TvZ where the T 14CC'd and the Z 4 pooled we could say that the terran is at an extreme BO disadvantage and the Z has a BO advantage.
On July 28 2011 18:30 Dark2Bright wrote: Can anyone explain for me what is "BO disadvantage" ?
Each build order (BO) has times when it's strong and when it's weak. For instance a 14CC (where a terran expands before any production buildings) is weak very early on and past a certain point it becomes strong. An opposite type build is a 4 pool (where a z makes a pool with one of his initial 4 drones). This build is very strong early on but if the game doesn't end it becomes weak later on.
In a hypothetical TvZ where the T 14CC'd and the Z 4 pooled we could say that the terran is at an extreme BO disadvantage and the Z has a BO advantage.
EPT
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