EPT[SPL] CJ Entus vs SKT Telecom T1 - Page 60
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hacklebeast
United States5090 Posts
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
On July 06 2011 08:07 hacklebeast wrote: Movie is a vZ sniper (when was the last time he beat any good T or P?) so considering how good soo is playing, <50% chance to win. leta doesn't look good in any of his MUs (he is 7-8 vP since switching to entus (I not sure about the exact date, so might be slightly different) against a weak lineup, with 2 losses to paralyze), not to mention that he chokes a lot, he won't win. Horang2 also has his own choke factor (reached one Ro16 ever, and lost to a rookie in his best MU), and hasn't been playing good players for quite a while. Other than a single win over JD during the worst slump of his career, there is no reason to think he could beat any of the zergs. That combined with the fact that Fantasy still looks good vs toss means he is a vP sniper. Hydra: generally agree with you, I'd favor bisu, and s2 a shot, but hydra will probably win his game Beyond that, the SKT "lackluster players" are looking a lot better that the CJ ones. CJ needs a lot of nice snipes to have a chance. Hydra is going to be Bonjwa. Okay about Movie being only a PvZ sniper: Hes now performing insanely well in all 3 MU. his PvT improved tremendously with his only recent losses are to HiyA and Flash. his PvP is rather untested but he hasnt lost one since early march in WL. You should know better that Proleague tends to bring a different set of skills from players than in individual leagues. Horang2 dropping to Grape doesnt prove anything. The only think you can say is about his recent performance. yes it isnt great but before that, he has proven himself to be a strong roleplayer in the CJ lineup. He is capable of destroying everyone in TBLS except Flash so i don't know what you are saying when it comes to choke factor. Majority of the players he played were Protoss. Why? well you know, CJ is just darn good at sniping. Tigertoss WILL infact play a Protoss i guarantee it. Leta can deliver. With wins against Jaedong and Flash under his belt, id say his TvZ and TvT is right next to the top. His TvP most certainly did improve (but P is imbalanced) if you watch his games. His previous TvP were SHIT. I dont know how he managed a 45% winrate prior to CJ in TvP. Also CJ needing a lot of nice snipes? Not really. They just dont need to get counter sniped and the possibility that all their players will play their worst MU is low. very low because CJ is a smart team. | ||
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Ecrilon
501 Posts
I can say so much of the same crap that you are spouting for SKT players. But SKT doesn't need me to speak for its perfect record in 2 of 4 regular PL rounds. | ||
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ffreakk
Singapore2155 Posts
On July 06 2011 08:36 Kenpachi wrote: Hydra is going to be Bonjwa. Okay about Movie being only a PvZ sniper: Hes now performing insanely well in all 3 MU. his PvT improved tremendously with his only recent losses are to HiyA and Flash. his PvP is rather untested but he hasnt lost one since early march in WL. You should know better that Proleague tends to bring a different set of skills from players than in individual leagues. Horang2 dropping to Grape doesnt prove anything. The only think you can say is about his recent performance. yes it isnt great but before that, he has proven himself to be a strong roleplayer in the CJ lineup. He is capable of destroying everyone in TBLS except Flash so i don't know what you are saying when it comes to choke factor. Majority of the players he played were Protoss. Why? well you know, CJ is just darn good at sniping. Tigertoss WILL infact play a Protoss i guarantee it. Leta can deliver. With wins against Jaedong and Flash under his belt, id say his TvZ and TvT is right next to the top. His TvP most certainly did improve (but P is imbalanced) if you watch his games. His previous TvP were SHIT. I dont know how he managed a 45% winrate prior to CJ in TvP. Also CJ needing a lot of nice snipes? Not really. They just dont need to get counter sniped and the possibility that all their players will play their worst MU is low. very low because CJ is a smart team. I dont doubt that Hydra's form is peaking, although judging from how he was embarassed by the current Bonjwa, i dont see him sitting on that throne. Its not so much about the 0-3 score as the manner in which he lost. Movie's form is peaking as well, thats true, but hes vT is still pretty dubious. Otherwise, another guy at the best form of his career. Leta isnt even close to the form of the two mentioned above, his vT looking especially shaky recently, while his vP improved, but still not that hot. His vZ is pretty strong though, i will give u that. Strong vZ sniper, average at the other MUs = my accessment on him. (i actually like Leta as hes not one of those CJ-ers) Horang2 seems to have cooled down a little from his monster streak a while ago. He doesnt feel as monstrous anymore, and looking vulnerable again, though not against P yet (outside of that series vs Grape). His trademark 2(sometimes 3)-base hanbang seems (to me) to have been well-analyzed by the opposing teams (especially SKT) and they will be well-prepared. Last but not least, you seem to forget that our players too are peaking (most of them). You dont have to trust Fanta's playoff abilities over his current slumps. But i do, history tells me that my trust isnt ill-placed. It might just be my burning hate for CJ speaking, but i actually expect the winner of Woongjin vs Khan to meet SKT in the finals. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
The first four games are obviously the most important. IMO this is where coach choices make or break the matchup, especially as both CJ and SKT are full of specialty players, or players who are severely gimped in at least one matchup. The player who is least likely to get sniped on each team: CJ's Hydra SKT's Bisu. Bisu vs Hydra would be an interesting match, with the edge going to Bisu, but you can't count out Hydra either. The only player I'd give a good shot at sniping Hydra besides Bisu would be S2. As for Bisu, Hydra and Horang2 are the best bets. Even against Horang2 though, Bisu will put up a really good fight. Edge in the ace department goes to SKT, IMO. Secondary player: CJ's team doesn't have a clear second ace. KT has stats and for the most part SKT has Fantasy. IMO if you just go by recent performance I suppose Horang2 would be a decent choice. Recently for SKT Fanta sucks, so he might be replaced by soo or s2. Fanta's TvZ is looking shitty too so if he gets Hydra he'll probably lose. Against Leta or any CJ P I'd give the edge to Fantasy on a normal day. His performance in the finals is an unknown for now, so I'd give the edge to CJ here. Now ofc SKT might decide to send out soo or Best instead of Fantasy, which would work fine IMO; Best would do well against Leta and any of the CJ Protoss but probably lose to Hydra, while soo would probably fare the same. The good thing is that CJ is primarily a Protoss team, so the SKT zergs can shine. If s2 and soo don't manage to win or don't hit Protoss, SKT's equally deep Protoss line can back them up. I imagine s2 will probably lose and SKT would need Best/sun to pull out a win. CJ's "weaker" players look stronger than SKT's "weaker" players, but perhaps only in certain matchups. I don't know the order of the maps, but these 6 players, I imagine, will be on the lists, with the intention and possible failures listed: CJ: Skyhigh: intention to snipe Fantasy, likely lose to everyone else Snow: currently slumping, good vT and average others. Could lose to anyone Movie: good vZ, meh vT/vP. 50/50 against SKT zergs IMO. Probably will lose. Leta: good vs Z, vs T. If he gets an SKT P (like Best) he'll probably lose. Otherwise win. Horang2: excellent vs P. Meh vs T, Z. Horang2 will win his game if he gets a P. Lose otherwise, possible ace choice to snipe Bisu Hydra: ace, strong vZ and vP, probably will win. Could lose to Bisu Potential replacement for Snow: Bbyong. SKT isn't a particularly strong vT team. Bisu can handle a Terran but most of the other SKT players are only mediocre vs T. The exception is Best, but if Bbyong is sent out then SKT will have to deal with two Terrans. SKT: Fantasy: no one knows how the hell Jung laden is gonna play. I'm counting on a loss. Best: bad vs Z, good vs T, can handle vP. He'd lose to Hydra or Horang2 for sure, but he'll win against anyone else IMO. This is good because it ensures that SKT will get a win somehow even if Bisu draws a P and Best gets sniped as well. The worst would probably be Hydra vs Best and Horang2 vs Bisu, in which case SKT could easily lose both of their best Protoss. Soo: I can't see soo losing, unless perhaps he lands hydra. Even so, I think he has a shot. Win. S2: s2 needs a Z or a P, and even so it's often 50/50. Could go either way, I feel like loss though. Sun: rookie power! Sun's vZ is good but his other matchups? Uncertainty here too. Bisu: The sex machine himself will probably crush whoever he draws. The scariest might be Horang2 but even in that situation I think Bisu has a great chance at winning. My verdict? 4-2 or 4-3. I think 4-3 is more likely, with a win for SKT if it's 4-3. If it's 4-2 one team played beyond expectations; I would think that the most likely 4-2 outcome is that CJ pulled off some good snipes (like at least 2, probably 3 or even 4) The reason I think 4-3 is likely with SKT winning is because Bisu/Best/soo are enough to take it to ace. There is only 1 good Z on CJ right now (sending where would be dumb IMO) and that's Hydra. Since both Best and soo are only really weak vs Z, I think there's a strong chance they'll both win their matches. Bisu is almost a given, and in an ace match I have to put it on Bisu to take it home. | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
btw, CJ will win the championship keke? + Show Spoiler + BRING IT ON T1 (^_(^_(-_(-_(-_(-_(-_-)_-)_-)_-)_-)_-)_-) | ||
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jpak
United States5045 Posts
On July 06 2011 10:58 Kenpachi wrote: there is a state of conflict here. Hydra can best Bisu and Bisu can beat Hydra. I'd say its even between the two titans. The thing we cant predict is which team will show in the finals. Last PL finals, KT OBLITERATED T1 (well its cause T1 fielded Canata :s). Like, T1 looked really shaky (I was rooting for T1 btw) and T1 is a championship winner likewise CJ. If KT prepared that well, CJ will do it 5x better. btw, CJ will win the championship keke? + Show Spoiler + BRING IT ON T1 (^_(^_(-_(-_(-_(-_(-_-)_-)_-)_-)_-)_-)_-) CJ's starting six is hard for any team, even SKT, to go through. Hydra Leta Snow Movie Horang2 Skyhigh/Bbyong ("sniping slot") And let me make a statement: CJ will get the snipes they want 75% of the time. Which means for every 4 snipes, 3 will succeed. | ||
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AppleTart
United States1261 Posts
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Elefanto
Switzerland3584 Posts
CJ fans coming out, telling THIS TIME, yes, THIS TIME, CJ has the deepest team they ever had. Their aces, their snipers, their coaching staff. Everything plays into their favor. The stars have aligned for them. Yet every year, CJ didn't deliver. Mark my word, this year will be the same. | ||
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
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renzy
Canada781 Posts
On July 06 2011 06:31 Kenpachi wrote: Hydra > all basically. free win here CJ 1-0 So if Jaedong has been raped consistently by Bisu this season, what makes you think Hydra will do any better? =.= | ||
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d_so
Korea (South)3262 Posts
On July 06 2011 12:46 Elefanto wrote: It's everytime the same before the playoffs. CJ fans coming out, telling THIS TIME, yes, THIS TIME, CJ has the deepest team they ever had. Their aces, their snipers, their coaching staff. Everything plays into their favor. The stars have aligned for them. Yet every year, CJ didn't deliver. Mark my word, this year will be the same. yeah but this is the happiest CJ team ever. Maybe the only team as happy is the woonjin squad, but that's only cuz of their ambiguous sexuality haha. | ||
TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
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mustaju
Estonia4505 Posts
On July 06 2011 15:08 TanGeng wrote: Trash talking already started?? Isn't this still weeks away?? CJ has to win a semi-final first right? Fucking hype. Building up false hope for the finals. It's group therapy, I suppose. The triumph of Evil is a hard thing to accept.  | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On July 06 2011 15:47 mustaju wrote: Building up false hope for the finals. It's group therapy, I suppose. The triumph of Evil is a hard thing to accept. But what if that which you think is evil is truly righteous, and that which you think is good has awful taste in uniforms? | ||
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
On July 06 2011 15:56 Lightwip wrote: But what if that which you think is evil is truly righteous, and that which you think is good has awful taste in uniforms? That... that was a low blow. | ||
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mustaju
Estonia4505 Posts
On July 06 2011 15:56 Lightwip wrote: But what if that which you think is evil is truly righteous, and that which you think is good has awful taste in uniforms? Thankfully, there is not a shred of righteousness to be found in SKT. As for the uniforms, I'll take that jab, and agree with it, but righteousness having similarly bad taste in uniforms as SKT does not make them evil. That's obviously a fallacy. | ||
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Dakkas
2550 Posts
You can't explain that | ||
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JerKy
Korea (South)3013 Posts
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Spica
United States5582 Posts
On July 06 2011 16:27 mustaju wrote: Thankfully, there is not a shred of righteousness to be found in SKT. As for the uniforms, I'll take that jab, and agree with it, but righteousness having similarly bad taste in uniforms as SKT does not make them evil. That's obviously a fallacy. Don't worry mustaju If KT knocks out STX in the playoffs and reach the finals, we'll avenge you guys (^∇^) | ||
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