[SWL] Playoffs Day 1: SK Telecom T1 vs Hite Entus - Page 89

On March 28 2011 04:55 hacklebeast wrote:


people understate fantasy a lot due to his lack of consistency. He has shown time and time again that he is next to Flash and Jaedong when in form (all of the series he has with them that end 2-3).

On March 28 2011 04:22 TheShimmy wrote:



Because Jaedong has been playing so great as of late.

Not.

SKT will take the take series over OZ.

On March 28 2011 06:46 infinity2k9 wrote:
Despite P > T at the highest levels very slightly, i feel bad for the Protoss in games like Fantasy vs Snow. I know he was behind from the beginning and only the hidden base evened it out, but that amount of vulture/tank/goliath was simply impossible to stop even if Fantasy fucked up a lot. I know Fantasy is a great player to make it look that easy, cause you see every non-S class TvP and its nothing like it. In that game a comeback looked completely impossible with how solid he was playing.

On March 28 2011 04:55 hacklebeast wrote:


people understate fantasy a lot due to his lack of consistency. He has shown time and time again that he is next to Flash and Jaedong when in form (all of the series he has with them that end 2-3).

On March 28 2011 05:03 TheShimmy wrote:


Fantasy ahs shown tremendous play against both of them. He has also shown that with his quirky builds and build Iloveoov collaborates (or badically makes) with him are all amazing and can be used to beat any top-notch player. Fantasy deserves a place with Flash, Jaedong, and Bisu because he isn't a great player, but he plays great. The same can be said for Stork.

On March 25 2011 17:23 mustaju wrote:

This leads me to announce something, so that we don't chicken out of it. My immense hatred of most things SKT and Lightwip's fanboyism for SKT collided again, but this match might help us settle the age-old animosity for a while. If SKT wins, I'll change my sig to something of Lightwip's choosing, but if Hite wins, He will have to proclaim the truth divine about something SKT that I inform him about.

And just so it stays relevant with the times, the duration of this signature change is a minimum of 1 month, beginning from the start of Round 5 of Proleague 10-11.

On March 28 2011 07:59 GolemMadness wrote:


Fantasy has had three BO5's against Flash and Jaedong. He's lost all three, going 2-3, 2-3, 1-3 (he's also lost to Flash in two BO3's, going 0-2 both times). You can hardly say that he's rgiht next to them in form when he's never beaten either in a series and has a combined record of 9-18 against them.




He's 8-2 in his past 10, during which time he's beaten Stork, Bisu and Fantasy. I'd say that's looking pretty good.





He lost because he just randomly decided to throw 30 zealots straight into fantasy's army. He had 6 bases versus Fantasy's 3; you can hardly say that a comeback was impossible.

On March 28 2011 11:29 aimaimaim wrote:


Apparently, He can't macro like Best :D

On March 28 2011 09:23 Cr4zyH0r5e wrote:
@GolemMadness: Fantasy won that game because he played smart. Snow suiciding those zealots, which were 18 and not 30, is what made it look like a rape when Fantasy finally pushed. Those 6 to 3 bases snow had where 3 bases that he was just taking. He decided to play greedy and he got punished for it. Before taht they were both equal on 3 bases for most of the game -_-"
It's the same mistake Bisu made vs Flash that one game in Fortress...

Also a 7-9 head to head vs Jaedong is not particularly bad...
It's by no means Leta's 0-8 vs Jaedong...

On March 28 2011 08:52 Biff The Understudy wrote:

Yes the problem is that consistency is what makes the difference between a very good player and someone like Flash. You see, there are quite a lot of guys who can display incredible mind blowing play from time to time. The thing is that there are really few who can be in all leagues final for a year and achieve 80%+ win on a 12 months period.

Fantasy is great. He can be amazing. But think about someone like Leta. When he plays well, it's also absolutely jaw dropping. Problem is that he plays well sometimes. Flash plays incredibly well almost all the time.


Couple of things:

People love to make assumption about Oov this and Oov that, but the thing is that exept bit of interview here and there, we are talking out our hat when we say that oov is behind it all everytime Fantasy does something sexy. Just wanted to point that out. We don't have a clue.

Fantasy has amazing potential. He can be just as impressive as any player in the world. Problem is that he is not, most of the time. He has been three times in final of a league and won once. Flash has been 6 time in final of a league and won 4 last year.

An other thing is that Fantasy is a startegic build player. That's great, I looove stretgic builds, that's what makes Starcraft good. Problem is that it's not enough to be consistent. It's something to be able to do something very original and well executed and win a game brilliantly with a lot of preparation, it's something else to be able to play perfectly solid 3 times a week just because your skill level is so much above everybody else and that people will basically almost always lose if they don't have a BO advantage from the very beginning.

Now, just in terms of pure skill:

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/players/6_Fantasy/games#tblt-4642-1-default-0-jaedong
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/players/6_Fantasy/games#tblt-4642-1-default-0-flash

He is 6-13 against Flash (that's 31%) and 7-9 against Jaedong (that's 43%). He is 2-6 (25%) in last 8 games with both of them. If everybody was as good as Flash, Fantasy would blow. 31% is just not competitive.

The truth is, when you have a Flash vs Fantasy, Fantasy is very very clearly the underdog, and most of the time, he gets rolled over.

Again, I like Fantasy. But he is overhyped.

On March 28 2011 16:03 Mortality wrote:


I love looking at statistics, but the statistics between Fantasy and Flash don't tell the whole story. So many of their games are just absurdly epic battles that define everything good TvT is all about.

I don't think Fantasy is over-hyped at all. He doesn't have anything close to the hype of TBLS yet even though he's potentially a 5th wheel. His individual league results have been unambiguously better than Bisu's for what, 2 years now? For that matter, over the past year he's been a more consistent presence than Stork as well and he was the closest to stopping Flash in Bigfile MSL.

And speaking of which, WTF is this "if everybody was as good as Flash?" Are you serious? Hello? 5th bonjwa? If everybody was as good as Flash, then Jaedong would blow right now too.

On March 28 2011 06:01 Ryo wrote:
apparently Fantasy is now tied first with Sea for the most number of post-season wins. Both are at 14 wins and 5 losses.


Sea
Fantasy
Bisu
Jaedong
Savior
Skyhigh
Midas
Canata
Sigamari
Effort

On March 28 2011 17:55 hitthat wrote:
Woooah...Fantasy is sometimes overhyped by some people, yes. When we are talking that hes 2nd best terran and one of the best players of "Flash era", we are saying the truth. But if we are talking that "Fantasy is so good!!! 2nd best playaaarrr!!!!", than we overhype him massively.

But MOST OF TIME Fantasy is massively underHYPED, underRATED and underESTIMATED. If any of you track some of comments about fantasy, you will see that he was somehow downgraded in all of his history. And that more and more arguments why he is so awfull proves to be false, like this:

1. Year 2008--->he is not good player, he cant play against Zerg (than Fantasy destroys ggplay with Fantasy Build, gets 1st silver)
2. Early 2009----> hes awfull TvZ, his build is getting worked now (Fantasy starts wining against Zerg with Valkonic)
3. Middle 2009----> he didnt prove anything, never beat a competent Zerg (Fantasy dismantle JD in SPL, than in SPL great final, than beating many good Zergs like Zero and Effort after that...and get his second OSL silver)
4. late 2009------> he is cheese mofo (Fantasy starts winning his vZ games playing mostly macro games/timing pushes)
5. early 2010 slump-------> he is gimmicky player, he is resolved now (Fantasy starts winning regulary against a Zerg, revolutionize late TvZ with Midas and Flash, than gets to MSL semifinal and plays the marvelous series vs Flash)
6. late 2010-----> fuck that, he is just oov's puppet, he sucks and will never get a gold ( )
7. currently----->ok, he's good, but without Ovv he would not, besides hes inconsistent [actually second part is true, first is...problematic]


WARNING! BE READY FOR MASSIVE TROLLING RIGHT NOW!
-if you are talking that Fantasy is bad in TvZ becouse of his regular fails, than what do you want to say about STORK?

Are being serious? You seriously think Fantasy would be nowhere without oov. Sure, oov's builds are genius, but not everyone uses them. Fantasy is the best terran in terms of utilizing a build, mastering it, and winning with it.