[SWL] Playoffs Day 1: SK Telecom T1 vs Hite Entus - Page 90

Did I wrote this in chineese? Or my english is so poor that native speakers cannot understand my words correctly? I wrote that's true he is "inconsistent", not that he would be nothing without Ovv (it's
problematic in the best case)

Well then I misunderstood you pal, sorry. Haha, I just hate Fantasy trolls that call him a cheesy player with no skills and that seemed to be the point you made.

Taekwon

United States8155 Posts

March 28 2011 23:48 GMT

#1783

When is T1 vs Oz?
Upcoming events reached bottom of the page

Spica

United States5582 Posts

March 29 2011 00:16 GMT

#1784

On March 29 2011 08:48 Taekwon wrote:
When is T1 vs Oz?
Upcoming events reached bottom of the page

I like to copypasta myself at times:

2nd day of WL playoffs with SKT vs. OZ is on April 2nd at 13:00 KST.

The WL finals will be on April 9th at 13:00 KST, with 1st place KT vs. whoever won the last match on day 2. (Winner from day 2 will advance to the finals to face KT)

Mortality

United States4790 Posts

March 29 2011 00:18 GMT

#1785

On March 28 2011 19:07 Biff The Understudy wrote:

Show nested quote +

On March 28 2011 16:03 Mortality wrote:

On March 28 2011 08:52 Biff The Understudy wrote:

On March 28 2011 04:55 hacklebeast wrote:

On March 28 2011 04:48 Biff The Understudy wrote:

On March 28 2011 04:22 TheShimmy wrote:

On March 28 2011 04:10 ibreakurface wrote:

On March 26 2011 20:42 legaton wrote:
Oh, time for some Jaedong all-killing SKT1

Amen. s2 doesn't stand a chance this time!

Because Jaedong has been playing so great as of late.

Not.

SKT will take the take series over OZ.

SKT has been failing quite a lot too afair.

People overhype Fantasy sooo badly. He is very good, for sure, but soooo damn far from Flash or Jaedong when he is in shape...

people understate fantasy a lot due to his lack of consistency. He has shown time and time again that he is next to Flash and Jaedong when in form (all of the series he has with them that end 2-3).

Yes the problem is that consistency is what makes the difference between a very good player and someone like Flash. You see, there are quite a lot of guys who can display incredible mind blowing play from time to time. The thing is that there are really few who can be in all leagues final for a year and achieve 80%+ win on a 12 months period.

Fantasy is great. He can be amazing. But think about someone like Leta. When he plays well, it's also absolutely jaw dropping. Problem is that he plays well sometimes. Flash plays incredibly well almost all the time.

On March 28 2011 05:03 TheShimmy wrote:

On March 28 2011 04:48 Biff The Understudy wrote:

On March 28 2011 04:22 TheShimmy wrote:

On March 28 2011 04:10 ibreakurface wrote:

On March 26 2011 20:42 legaton wrote:
Oh, time for some Jaedong all-killing SKT1

Amen. s2 doesn't stand a chance this time!

Because Jaedong has been playing so great as of late.

Not.

SKT will take the take series over OZ.

SKT has been failing quite a lot too afair.

People overhype Fantasy sooo badly. He is very good, for sure, but soooo damn far from Flash or Jaedong when he is in shape...

Fantasy ahs shown tremendous play against both of them. He has also shown that with his quirky builds and build Iloveoov collaborates (or badically makes) with him are all amazing and can be used to beat any top-notch player. Fantasy deserves a place with Flash, Jaedong, and Bisu because he isn't a great player, but he plays great. The same can be said for Stork.

Couple of things:

People love to make assumption about Oov this and Oov that, but the thing is that exept bit of interview here and there, we are talking out our hat when we say that oov is behind it all everytime Fantasy does something sexy. Just wanted to point that out. We don't have a clue.

Fantasy has amazing potential. He can be just as impressive as any player in the world. Problem is that he is not, most of the time. He has been three times in final of a league and won once. Flash has been 6 time in final of a league and won 4 last year.

An other thing is that Fantasy is a startegic build player. That's great, I looove stretgic builds, that's what makes Starcraft good. Problem is that it's not enough to be consistent. It's something to be able to do something very original and well executed and win a game brilliantly with a lot of preparation, it's something else to be able to play perfectly solid 3 times a week just because your skill level is so much above everybody else and that people will basically almost always lose if they don't have a BO advantage from the very beginning.

Now, just in terms of pure skill:

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/players/6_Fantasy/games#tblt-4642-1-default-0-jaedong
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/players/6_Fantasy/games#tblt-4642-1-default-0-flash

He is 6-13 against Flash (that's 31%) and 7-9 against Jaedong (that's 43%). He is 2-6 (25%) in last 8 games with both of them. If everybody was as good as Flash, Fantasy would blow. 31% is just not competitive.

The truth is, when you have a Flash vs Fantasy, Fantasy is very very clearly the underdog, and most of the time, he gets rolled over.

Again, I like Fantasy. But he is overhyped.

I love looking at statistics, but the statistics between Fantasy and Flash don't tell the whole story. So many of their games are just absurdly epic battles that define everything good TvT is all about.

I don't think Fantasy is over-hyped at all. He doesn't have anything close to the hype of TBLS yet even though he's potentially a 5th wheel. His individual league results have been unambiguously better than Bisu's for what, 2 years now? For that matter, over the past year he's been a more consistent presence than Stork as well and he was the closest to stopping Flash in Bigfile MSL.

And speaking of which, WTF is this "if everybody was as good as Flash?" Are you serious? Hello? 5th bonjwa? If everybody was as good as Flash, then Jaedong would blow right now too.

I said "If everybody was as good as Flash" just to put in perspective the claim that Fantasy was "so close to Flash", earlier in this thread. Well, he is really not. Fantasy and Flash has been close when Flash was slumping, two years ago. Since then, there is a world between them. And, yeah, I agree, Jaedong would blow right now with this hypothesis. But he would still be the closest not to blow completely.

If I had to define Fantasy, I would say he is one of the top five players in the world, and the second best terran.

As I said, the games between Flash and Fantasy tend to be epic battles that define what TvT is all about. I do think they are pretty close, yes, but only as close as anyone can ever really be to a bonjwa -- and a bonjwa has no "equal." Although after last season Flash is going to have to work to prove that he's still in god mode.

Looking at the past 12 months I would consider Fantasy to be the #3 player in the world. Bisu and Stork have stronger careers overall, but both of them were struggling in 2010 and neither of them have really been "better" this season. Maybe Bisu might have a better win percentage, but he didn't advance all that far and the maps are more suited for P than T right now...

jpak

United States5045 Posts

March 29 2011 01:02 GMT

#1786

Someone has calculated the Kespa Ranking for April, and it seems like Fantasy will take over Flash as #1 Kespa rank:
Flash vs Fantasy Kespa rank calculation

Note: THIS IS NOT OFFICIAL!!! IT'S JUST SOMEONE WHO TOOK THE TIME TO CALCULATE THE POINTS BASED ON THE LEAKED FORMULAS.

Jaedong will be #3

Edit: told ya hite was streaky. They lose once, they'll lose at least one more before winning again.

TheShimmy

United States1808 Posts

March 29 2011 03:14 GMT

#1787

On March 29 2011 10:02 jpak wrote:
Someone has calculated the Kespa Ranking for April, and it seems like Fantasy will take over Flash as #1 Kespa rank:
Flash vs Fantasy Kespa rank calculation

Note: THIS IS NOT OFFICIAL!!! IT'S JUST SOMEONE WHO TOOK THE TIME TO CALCULATE THE POINTS BASED ON THE LEAKED FORMULAS.

Jaedong will be #3

Edit: told ya hite was streaky. They lose once, they'll lose at least one more before winning again.

Nooo way. Wow if that happens it will be crazy. Gotta love Fantasy but didn;t think I'd ever see the day.

Release

United States4397 Posts

March 29 2011 05:13 GMT

#1788

On March 29 2011 12:14 TheShimmy wrote:

Show nested quote +

Nooo way. Wow if that happens it will be crazy. Gotta love Fantasy but didn;t think I'd ever see the day.

Flash has been Kespa 1 since December 2009? Can't remember. Never thought in all my days would i ever see Flash knocked down. 6 consecutive finals, 4 wins, dual finals, even with decay, i would expect to hold 1 for maybe another year due to his consistent near 90% winrate.

Taekwon

United States8155 Posts

March 29 2011 06:06 GMT

#1789

INSANE!

Biff The Understudy

France7917 Posts

March 29 2011 10:55 GMT

#1790

On March 29 2011 15:06 Taekwon wrote:

Show nested quote +

INSANE!

I know I look like a horrible Flash fanboy, but Kespa ranking is the most weird thing ever. Trust elo, at least it makes a bit of sense.

Even the biggest Fantasy fan would agree that in no serious ranking should Fantasy be above Flash right now.

Anyway, congratz Fantasy :-) I used to be a complete fan few years ago!

TheShimmy

United States1808 Posts

March 29 2011 13:39 GMT

#1791

On March 29 2011 19:55 Biff The Understudy wrote:

Show nested quote +

He is playing pretty ridiculous right now though.

Fantasy's a great player and has had awesome execution as of late. He 3-0'd the OSL. Flash hasn't been at the top of any major individuals as of late. Plus Fantasy's been bringing it in WL. Idk, it does seem insane, but he's a tremendous player and deserves credit. I'm just interested in how long it will last, or how long til Flash is number one again.

bITt.mAN

Switzerland3693 Posts

March 29 2011 23:35 GMT

#1792

Oh man I just watched this, and BOY did I miss out on some epic LR

Game 1 Brilliant mobile-wraith-pew-pew-contain
Game 2 SsaK Had some RIDICULOUS Micro (see Batoo Game 2 aka. Fatansy Vultrues rape 2 hatch, all over again), but with those spawn positions and Hydra going muta at the end it wasn't enough
Game 3 Uuuh Fantasy rapes some Zerg with some awesome decision to take out bottom left with only MnM when it had lurkers defending it and everything. Lol u only need 2 base to kill Zerg
Game 4 Awesome mind-games leading to Fantasy containing Snow down his ramp. Also best possible positions for Fantasy as the direction he expands in = direcition he pushes in towards Toss main
Game 5 SOOO MANY FACTOLY!!! With the massacre of 2 Nexus and more than half Movie's probes (Mine-drag

) it was GG half-way through, but Movie did a pretty good job of holding on. Lol@ double expanding to opposite corners of the map <3

Can't wait to see Fantasy use some genius build cooked up by Oov's crocked kneck to destroy Jaedong.... only to be knocked out by Killer TT

aimaimaim

Philippines2167 Posts

March 30 2011 00:11 GMT

#1793

I would blame WL and his team mates doing well and not many other appearances :D

Mortality

United States4790 Posts

March 30 2011 05:41 GMT

#1794

On March 29 2011 19:55 Biff The Understudy wrote:

Show nested quote +

I know I look like a horrible Flash fanboy, but Kespa ranking is the most weird thing ever. Trust elo, at least it makes a bit of sense.

Even the biggest Fantasy fan would agree that in no serious ranking should Fantasy be above Flash right now.

Anyway, congratz Fantasy :-) I used to be a complete fan few years ago!

EDIT: I shouldn't take out my beef with the absurdity of Flash fans on you. At least you've been fairly reasonable so I'm deleting my post.

HitoriTomoyo

Canada264 Posts

March 30 2011 16:28 GMT

#1795

That's kind of interesting though kind of flawed at the same time.

By no means should this dictate that FanTaSY is superior to FlaSh (at least not until he actually beats him in a straight-up game in Winner's League; I still can't get over how he messed up against FlaSh in the first game in Winner's League) but it's cool to see FlaSh finally getting dethroned after holding the title of the best for so many months even if it wasn't Jaedong to do so.

Let's see how T1 fares against OZ first. Man this brings back so many memories of 08-09.

TheShimmy

United States1808 Posts

March 30 2011 19:02 GMT

#1796

On March 31 2011 01:28 HitoriTomoyo wrote:

Show nested quote +

Fantasy isn't a superior player than flash but he is playing superior to the play of flash at this time. I think after Fantasy takes down OZ it will solidify that he belongs on the same plane for his creativity and builds.

Simplistik

2093 Posts

April 02 2011 04:55 GMT

#1797

Ssak, you are good!

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