I hope that that Bisu's claims regarding his will to go further in individual leagues proves helpful, im always wary of Bisu and individual leagues.. unfortunately.
Hard to say who else will advance, Hyun has the possibility to advance since he's been winning games randomly lol (he keeps doing that grrrr bitey thing when he wins so I hope he doesn't). Orion hasn't played all that much either yeah?
Okay this is the ultimate test for the revolutionist. There are 2 weaknesses that he has and both of them are in the group, a scrub Zerg that will probably do some gay shit to him (Shine and by.Hero come to mind) and a competent Terran who is good at TvP. If he can beat them, then the revolution is kicked back to overdrive baby!
Not that HyuN is good... but I just have a bad feeling about this.
Mostly though I'm just trying to justify getting Really out of a group with two Zergs, and the only way I can do that is if he doesn't have to play one of them.
On November 18 2010 12:33 endy wrote: I LB'd Bisu and Orion. Bisu 2-0, Orion 2-1 Bisu can definitely win this MSL if JD eliminates Flash first !
If Bisu wins without at some point showing that he can compete with Flash, it will seem a hollow victory. There's plenty of haters here, but if Flash would even ask Bisu to help him practice against free, that means he's good enough to do it. And I've seen Bisu beat an insanely well playing Flash on his skill alone, so he can do it.
On November 18 2010 12:33 endy wrote: I LB'd Bisu and Orion. Bisu 2-0, Orion 2-1 Bisu can definitely win this MSL if JD eliminates Flash first !
If Bisu wins without at some point showing that he can compete with Flash, it will seem a hollow victory. There's plenty of haters here, but if Flash would even ask Bisu to help him practice against free, that means he's good enough to do it. And I've seen Bisu beat an insanely well playing Flash on his skill alone, so he can do it.
Well if Stork wasn't the other potential finalist of the OSL, he would probably have asked Stork to practice. Had Stork built one extra cannon in set 5 vs JD, and Flash would have met him straight after free in the finals. He could obviously not ask free to practice against free, so he asked Bisu
And whatever the haters say, if Flash is eliminated earlier in the Starleague, I don't see why he would deserve the MSL more than Bisu.
Anyway, it's only the ro36 now, we should stop our fanboys fantasies about Bisu
On November 18 2010 12:33 endy wrote: I LB'd Bisu and Orion. Bisu 2-0, Orion 2-1 Bisu can definitely win this MSL if JD eliminates Flash first !
If Bisu wins without at some point showing that he can compete with Flash, it will seem a hollow victory. There's plenty of haters here, but if Flash would even ask Bisu to help him practice against free, that means he's good enough to do it. And I've seen Bisu beat an insanely well playing Flash on his skill alone, so he can do it.
Well if Stork wasn't the other potential finalist of the OSL, he would probably have asked Stork to practice. Had Stork built one extra cannon in set 5 vs JD, and Flash would have met him straight after free in the finals. He could obviously not ask free to practice against free, so he asked Bisu
And whatever the haters say, if Flash is eliminated earlier in the Starleague, I don't see why he would deserve the MSL more than Bisu.
Anyway, it's only the ro36 now, we should stop our fanboys fantasies about Bisu
If Flash is eliminated earlier in the SL, he certainly doesn't deserve it more, but I just want some indication that Bisu can take down Flash, even if only in an ace match. And Stork/free would've probably been better vTers, but it means something if you're asked by Flash to help you practice. And alas, we could've avoided JD vs Flash if not for that one cannon.
On November 18 2010 12:33 endy wrote: I LB'd Bisu and Orion. Bisu 2-0, Orion 2-1 Bisu can definitely win this MSL if JD eliminates Flash first !
If Bisu wins without at some point showing that he can compete with Flash, it will seem a hollow victory. There's plenty of haters here, but if Flash would even ask Bisu to help him practice against free, that means he's good enough to do it. And I've seen Bisu beat an insanely well playing Flash on his skill alone, so he can do it.
Well if Stork wasn't the other potential finalist of the OSL, he would probably have asked Stork to practice. Had Stork built one extra cannon in set 5 vs JD, and Flash would have met him straight after free in the finals. He could obviously not ask free to practice against free, so he asked Bisu
And whatever the haters say, if Flash is eliminated earlier in the Starleague, I don't see why he would deserve the MSL more than Bisu.
Anyway, it's only the ro36 now, we should stop our fanboys fantasies about Bisu
If Flash is eliminated earlier in the SL, he certainly doesn't deserve it more, but I just want some indication that Bisu can take down Flash, even if only in an ace match. And Stork/free would've probably been better vTers, but it means something if you're asked by Flash to help you practice. And alas, we could've avoided JD vs Flash if not for that one cannon.
I attended the OSL finals live and as much as I love Stork, this Flash vs JD was probably the ultimate confrontation, and a potential historical 4th OSL win, so I wasn't disappointed !
After the Bisu and Stork interview, I really hope they will do better in individual leagues ! (Bisu can maybe break his OSL curse ?)
On November 18 2010 12:33 endy wrote: I LB'd Bisu and Orion. Bisu 2-0, Orion 2-1 Bisu can definitely win this MSL if JD eliminates Flash first !
If Bisu wins without at some point showing that he can compete with Flash, it will seem a hollow victory. There's plenty of haters here, but if Flash would even ask Bisu to help him practice against free, that means he's good enough to do it. And I've seen Bisu beat an insanely well playing Flash on his skill alone, so he can do it.
still one of the very best tvp series ever played.. when flash pushes out, you better shit your pants preemptively.
yes he can!
but bisu wouldnt be bisu if we fanboys didnt have to worry about him getting past orion, really and hyun while at the same time fantasizing about him crushing jd and/or flash to claim the title.....
Bisu and Really are my tips. Bisu undoubtedly has the skill to cruise through this group, it's only the fickle nature of PvZ that keeps us fanboys worried. Once Bisu gets past the early mid-game it's time to sit back and enjoy the flood of zerg blood and tears.
On November 18 2010 19:54 Lann555 wrote: Man, 2nd map Thriathlon....pretty much a P-graveyard vs Zerg and with Really's abysmal TvZ it's likely Bisu will face a zerg there.
Then again...it's Hyun
Really 3-0 streak vZ! After he going to Zero+Soulkey team, he start play TvZ much better!
On November 18 2010 19:54 Lann555 wrote: Man, 2nd map Thriathlon....pretty much a P-graveyard vs Zerg and with Really's abysmal TvZ it's likely Bisu will face a zerg there.
Then again...it's Hyun
I think it's the final map, so as long as he goes 2-0 he won't have to play on it.
On November 18 2010 19:54 Lann555 wrote: Man, 2nd map Thriathlon....pretty much a P-graveyard vs Zerg and with Really's abysmal TvZ it's likely Bisu will face a zerg there.
Then again...it's Hyun
I think it's the final map, so as long as he goes 2-0 he won't have to play on it.
Oh you are right. That should help things out alot :D
Bisu's probe takes its toll on the drone sent to expand, leaving it with around 24 hp - but it starts the expo with little delay after being held up at the ramp
Bisu elects for Nexus after forge, gutsy - but he calls it correctly, orion only spawns 2 lings
Bisu's probe sees 3 eggs morphing after an early pool. Seeing this, Bisu takes his natural. Instead of the 6 lings everyone was expecting, out pop two lings and two drones.
On November 18 2010 20:06 doothegee wrote: Bisu's probe sees 3 eggs morphing after an early pool. Seeing this, Bisu takes his natural. Instead of the 6 lings everyone was expecting, out pop two lings and two drones.
Hey Bisu, turn the maphack off, please.
He did cannon before nexus against Neo.G_Soulkey after seeing the same and then 2 lings and 2 drones popped. Maybe he had watched many zerg games and saw that they all now make 1 pair lings + 2 drones
bisu morphs his 1st 2 templar into an archon as the mutas arrive after picking off one zealot bisu needed that dude for his later goon chasis anyways
bisu adding more gates in his main
hogil out of fear and healthy respect for the revolutionist, adds a 3rd sunken at his 3rd and main bisu's genius sairs spot the 4th base starting at 12
On November 18 2010 19:50 Jackal03 wrote: i used to hate bisu (when he was dominating) but now i'm a fan, BW needs its heroes in good shape (and bisu is owning again)
Ya, I hated him to back when he was reaching fucking bonjwa level, but during his recent slump I started rooting for him. It was just so sad to see him play so far under his potential level. Protoss specifically needs a hero, so go Bisu!
On November 18 2010 20:17 Taosu wrote: What the hell is this new PvZ trend? "Achievement unlocked: won a PvZ with no storms".
He managed to keep a sizable fleet of Corsairs at all times. That's why he didn't need storms or Goons. He just needed the Archons as back-up for the Sairs.
On November 18 2010 19:50 Jackal03 wrote: i used to hate bisu (when he was dominating) but now i'm a fan, BW needs its heroes in good shape (and bisu is owning again)
Ya, I hated him to back when he was reaching fucking bonjwa level, but during his recent slump I started rooting for him. It was just so sad to see him play so far under his potential level. Protoss specifically needs a hero, so go Bisu!
On November 18 2010 19:50 Jackal03 wrote: i used to hate bisu (when he was dominating) but now i'm a fan, BW needs its heroes in good shape (and bisu is owning again)
Ya, I hated him to back when he was reaching fucking bonjwa level, but during his recent slump I started rooting for him. It was just so sad to see him play so far under his potential level. Protoss specifically needs a hero, so go Bisu!
bisu will lead the new dragons
I just want Stork to be there leading the way with him.
hive finishes, defiler mound starts first dropship out for really mutas come into the main again, pick off an scv by a depot - poor control takes more hits than he needs to
a few lurkers are out for hyun - perhaps 3 at the nat and the 3rd?
2 dropships out for really - really scans the SE approach to the 3rd, but mutascourge are there
really now on 7 rax, floats his 4th cc to 7 and clears out the lings there single vessel comes in and drive-by irradiates a defiler at the 3rd vessels getting plagued as they irradiate stuff at the 4th
Really not having the balls to beat a couple of lurkers in Dark Swarm and donating three dropships' worth of units to Hyun allows him to get to Ultra on 4 gas.
On November 18 2010 20:50 Amnesia wrote: Sea.Really's TvZ is impressive, considering it is his weakest matchup. Or HyuN may just be really bad =[
It's the latter I'm sure. Still very unimpressed with Really TvZ this game. His MnM control is subpar, not scanning when flying in with big drops and inability to finish teh game even though he is miles ahead. If Hyun was a bit better with defiler/scourge, he would lose
Even though Bisu's vT isn't something he's revered for he should have no problems against Really, despite it being really's "best" matchup ("best" = sucks less than the others)
On November 18 2010 20:53 raga4ka wrote: Really has really improved his TvZ in woongjin . I would consider him for FPL .
Yeah, looks like SoulKey gave him some tips)
Well he did break a 13 game losing stream TvZ with 4 wins in a row... but 2 of those wins are against the punching bag Hyun...and the other two are against Clam and OG Yellow...not exactly impressive
On November 18 2010 20:57 doothegee wrote: Hyun should play Bisu after the 5 scheduled matches are over, just to be humiliated as punishment for the game he just played.
On November 18 2010 20:53 raga4ka wrote: Really has really improved his TvZ in woongjin . I would consider him for FPL .
Yeah, looks like SoulKey gave him some tips)
Well he did break a 13 game losing stream TvZ with 4 wins in a row... but 2 of those wins are against the punching bag Hyun...and the other two are against Clam and OG Yellow...not exactly impressive
Agree. I watched all 4 of those games and it still wasn't good at all. His overall decision making has improved and his dropship play is actually pretty decent. But his MnM control is worse then Fantasy's was back in the days
On November 18 2010 20:54 DracoVolantus wrote: bisy vs really
This could be tough for the Bisu. PvT is still his weakest matchup and Really is quite good vs Toss. And if he loses he faces a zerg on Triathlon
Bisu's PvT hasn't been too bad recently, has it?
It's been okay, but it lacks finesse.
Well he has been learning from Best.
But actually when best moves his forces to break a terran tank position there's actually a ton of subtleties involved that most people don't notice. Best's positioning and the way he sends in his forces (not just a-move!) is superior to ordinary tosses.
Map doesn't matter, Hyun and Orion are still bad enough to be the type of zergs to lose to a +1 speedlot timing attack. Map only helps you if you're good enough to abuse the nature of it and none of them are even good with mutalisks to begin with.
On November 18 2010 20:54 DracoVolantus wrote: bisy vs really
This could be tough for the Bisu. PvT is still his weakest matchup and Really is quite good vs Toss. And if he loses he faces a zerg on Triathlon
Bisu's PvT hasn't been too bad recently, has it?
It's been okay, but it lacks finesse.
Well he has been learning from Best.
But actually when best moves his forces to break a terran tank position there's actually a ton of subtleties involved that most people don't notice. Best's positioning and the way he sends in his forces (not just a-move!) is superior to ordinary tosses.
I completely agree. His zealots always find their way deep into the tank line and tear everything up.
Problem with Bisu PvT seems to be that he can be overagressive and too eager to engage and put pressure on. That's part of what makes him such a beast in PvZ, because he doesn't allow the zerg to ever comfortably macro up, but it's not that great vs a turtling Terran where patience is often the way to go.
He also needs to stop stasis'ing the front tanks to create an invincible wall for he Terran. I have seen him to that more often then not
On November 18 2010 21:06 Lann555 wrote: Problem with Bisu PvT seems to be that he can be overagressive and too eager to engage and put pressure on. That's part of what makes him such a beast in PvZ, because he doesn't allow the zerg to ever comfortably macro up, but it's not that great vs a turtling Terran where patience is often the way to go.
He also needs to stop stasis'ing the front tanks to create an invincible wall for he Terran. I have seen him to that more often then not
On November 18 2010 21:06 Lann555 wrote: Problem with Bisu PvT seems to be that he can be overagressive and too eager to engage and put pressure on. That's part of what makes him such a beast in PvZ, because he doesn't allow the zerg to ever comfortably macro up, but it's not that great vs a turtling Terran where patience is often the way to go.
He also needs to stop stasis'ing the front tanks to create an invincible wall for he Terran. I have seen him to that more often then not
I know! That really irks me when I see him do that. Then his units run further up only to be shelled again.
Although after reading his interview he really finds tanks intimidating, and unlike his PvZ where he has sairs scouting ahead he feels like he can't approach a tank line. I guess he should learn how to use observers properly?
bisu is way too slow to expand in pvp and pvt...best expands really aggressively after opening 1 gate, bisu needs to learn that first obs out, bisu now taking his nat gas
Wait wtf happend? I saw bisu massing zealots at his choke. I look away for a short moment and when I look back his forces is crushing down terran army and nat?
On November 18 2010 21:19 purpose wrote: Wait wtf happend? I saw bisu massing zealots at his choke. I look away for a short moment and when I look back his forces is crushing down terran army and nat?
Did he just walk up and attacked or what?
Really took 4 bases with a few turrets and a sprinkling of unsieged tanks (where were the mines?)
and when bisu felt he had enough forces and his first arbiter - they just walked over everything
On November 18 2010 21:19 purpose wrote: Wait wtf happend? I saw bisu massing zealots at his choke. I look away for a short moment and when I look back his forces is crushing down terran army and nat?
Did he just walk up and attacked or what?
Yes. Really didnt have all his tanks sieges, mines were not in good position and a big stasis did the rest
On November 18 2010 21:19 purpose wrote: Wait wtf happend? I saw bisu massing zealots at his choke. I look away for a short moment and when I look back his forces is crushing down terran army and nat?
Did he just walk up and attacked or what?
He got a nice stasis, sent his whole army plus his shuttle filled with zealots.
Really was completely unprepared and got rolled over.
On November 18 2010 21:20 Fenrax wrote: Flash, a challenger appeared.
Bisu could play a hundred games like this and it wouldn't change my mind about his chances against Flash. Really did nothing at all this entire game to test Bisu's skill
I wish Bisu would have more confidence? in his PvT... he has more than enough micro skills to have defused those mines after he sniped the tank during Really's fail FD, then to delay his natural, followed by roflstomp
On November 18 2010 21:20 Womwomwom wrote: Classic Forgg mistake: rally units to front line, don't siege, lose game. Literally the only two terrans that can play TvP are Fantasy and Flash.
mentioning Forgg brings back bad memories...
Wow the camera person really zoomed in on Bisu to show his figure filling up the big screen
And Hyun in the booth preparing again. I like you as a person - please don't suck!
On November 18 2010 21:23 doothegee wrote: I wish Bisu would have more confidence? in his PvT... he has more than enough micro skills to have defused those mines after he sniped the tank during Really's fail FD, then to delay his natural, followed by roflstomp
That's something we would have seen from him a year ago, methinks. I was thinking the exact same thing at that moment in the game, 2 goons, 4 mines stood before them and the nat. When bisu chooses to utilize them his goon micro is tops. And I don't know why he doesn't lead the way in bringing back storms PvT actually nowadays a few select tosses are using storms more than he does, when I think his mechanics would allow him to best utilize them.
Tonight was Really ezpz for Bisu ! Just macro and 1a2a3a4a into victory. And I think he could have moved his 2 goons at south of the mines and snipe the SCV that was building the natural at the beginning.
Jaehoon has finally picked up and justified whatever faith MBC management placed on him, despite the moving on of a coach. Along with Sea he's keeping the team afloat.
But his transformation was over a period of time. If Orion > Hyun, then Really vs Orion might be slightly entertaining...
On November 18 2010 21:23 doothegee wrote: Orion vs HyuN inc
Naptime incoming I think. I can't imagine these two putting up a good show.[/QUOTE
You never know... Jaehoon vs FBH (ie worst Toss ever against one of the worst TvP ever) a few months ago was hilarious!
Though yes, Orion vs HyuN is likely gonna suck hard.
imo, the worst part is that we have to watch Really TvZ again
Hmm..I hope he plays Orion. Maybe that kid will suprise us and put up a great show vs Really. Him losing to Bisu in the first match doesn't say much about his skill so who knows
"Hi I'm really...I'll just leave my tanks hanging out unsieged because I totally don't expect my opponent to ever attack me! And there's no need to protect them with mines either!"
On November 18 2010 21:31 Zona wrote: "Hi I'm really...I'll just leave my tanks hanging out unsieged because I totally don't expect my opponent to ever attack me! And there's no need to protect them with mines either!"
I think Really was playing tower defense - the old "put your towers on the corner to maximize firing time on the creeps"
On November 18 2010 21:31 Zona wrote: "Hi I'm really...I'll just leave my tanks hanging out unsieged because I totally don't expect my opponent to ever attack me! And there's no need to protect them with mines either!"
On November 18 2010 21:31 Zona wrote: "Hi I'm really...I'll just leave my tanks hanging out unsieged because I totally don't expect my opponent to ever attack me! And there's no need to protect them with mines either!"
He might as well have said: "Tanks not my thing, I don't use them."
orion with 6 slow lings heading up hyun's main hyun adding a creep at his nat hyun's probably going to fold over and die right now somehow despite having lings on both sides of orion's lings hyun allows orion to net a roughly equal exchange in lings hyun starts his spire has 2 idle drones at his nat
orion rushing down with quite a few speedlings to hyun's nat his own spire is starting too hyun with sunken/defending lings orion rushes forwards to attack the sunken from the top
Hyun opts to throw away the fact that he has the upper hand in attacking, and only gets 2 lings to catch up to Orion's fast nat. He then ... what? I assume that he made more drones in his main, because somehow he was behind in lings and behind in drone count at his nat. All he got was maybe a 10-second advantage in Spire, while being on the back foot and having to build a sunken, despite his opponent 12hatching.
hyun trhwoing to throw a bunch of lings up against orion's ramp all of orion's mutas socurged - aoubt 8 lings run up orion's main one muta out for orion, it is also scourged
wtf is hyun doing with his lings - running them forwards/backwards instead of attacking drones?
On November 18 2010 21:43 Zona wrote: hyun vs really rematch. can I tear myself away from the stream and from TL to save a few minutes of my life? or am I weak, as always?
Can we start a petition really quick to have those two play Fastest Map Possible instead? I might tear my eyes out.
who recommended this ? that was a terrible ZvZ.... Both players with bad micro, bad decision making... And now going to face a bad TvZer haha. I'm off for tonight !
On November 18 2010 22:03 doothegee wrote: Hyun has the worst amount of mutas possible - enough to have crippled his economy, but not enough to completely overrun him Jaedong-style.
But just the right amount to fly face-first into 5 turrets
On November 18 2010 22:06 Uraeus wrote: WTF Hyun????
What was that mass overlord suicide??? That game was beyond terrible.
It was a fake drop, to keep really from attacking his base until defilers got out. Unfortunately for hyun, it failed.
Why would Really even think that Hyun had an army to drop? He knew that he had a standing army of about 12ish mutas, and that's not including the 12 or so already dead.
On November 18 2010 22:06 Uraeus wrote: WTF Hyun????
What was that mass overlord suicide??? That game was beyond terrible.
It was a fake drop, to keep really from attacking his base until defilers got out. Unfortunately for hyun, it failed.
Oh, I thought when you faked a drop, you actually cared to choose a place that could actually get dropped, so your opponent can believe it and get his army back to defend.
And you choose your timing more carefully for it to be somewhat effective.
Terrible strat and terrible execution by Hyun. BG no re.
Funny that Really goes through after losing his supposed best matchup and winning twice in his worst, although judging from this thread he's got nothing to be proud of