KasPra banner defiled by mustaju. Two epic matches require two epic banners, but I'm still horrible at Photoshop, so I hope you are not too mad about the rehash. Tuesday, November 16th 2010, 18:00 KST, Channel MBCGame
2 fans, 10 questions: Questions by Mustaju, and the fans today are swanized for Woongjin and Carnivorous Sheep for STX! Let's begin!
1. Seeing as this is the last game of the round for both teams, are you pumped?
swanized: Of course I am! Stars has been playing phenomenal starcraft since the start of this season, STX... have not been looking that good imo but are still somehow winning their games. I am extremely pumped to watch woongjin demolish STX.
Carnivorous Sheep: Hell yeah! Especially since it's the face-off of my number 1 and 2 favorite teams, I am super excited! While I love Stars, STX needs this win, so sorry guys, I still think you're cute! <3
2. How would you sum up the season thus far for your respective teams (and possibly the opposing team as well?
swanized: Woongjin is a team whose depth was really limited because of the old bo5 format, now that they bought bo7 to the regular season they have been looking incredible this season. Neo.G_soulkey is ripping terrans apart while zero is playing the starcraft we all know he's capable of playing. Really is starting to look like the player we saw last season with Estro back in early 2010 and free is also playing very well. Frankly I am not surprised at all by woongjin's terrific start.
STX... well STX is also a pretty good team but I have not found them to be that impressive so far. Nevertheless they manage to win their games and I guess that's about the only thing you can ask them to do...
Carnivorous Sheep: STX got off to a promising start with an easy 2-0, and then faltered into a 2-2 that definitely should've been a 4-0. I firmly believe that STX is a favorite against any team, but as a longtime STX fan, I also realize that we are prone to stumbling when we shouldn't. I still think it's irrelevant in the long run, since we've had good momentum, and the loss to SKT was not in anyways a poor loss. STX often has trouble in R1 for some reason, but get ready for us to demolish the later rounds =)
3. How will your team challenge the current leader, SKT, in the rounds to come?
swanized: SKT is a team that is playing out of their mind at the moment, I can't believe SoO will go on playing so well in R2, or that Bisu will go on being undefeated in proleague either. R2 is going to be a difficult hangover for SKT fanboys and woongjin will take no time to grab the first position.
Carnivorous Sheep: We had a 2-4 loss that was, while unfortunate, no way indicative of future performance. Shuttle and Calm both had a good advantage, but the beauty of Starcraft is that advantage can dissipate in an instant. Unfortunately this turned out poorly for us, but I'm overall satisfied with our performance, with the exception of a rather uncharacteristic careless error from Bogus vs. DTs. The games were overall pretty close, and I honestly think STX vs. SKT will end up with a pretty close record by the end of the season, with each team taking ~50% of the wins. It really comes down to which team happens to perform better on that day, and unfortunatley it was SKT for R1. The season's still young though.
4.The map missing from today’s selection is Grand Line SE. How do you feel about that?
swanized: I must state that I love GrandLine and that it leads to such epic games that I am really sad to not see it on the map pool, especially considering how beastly Soulkey has been on this map. Woongjin should nevertheless have no problem defeating STX.
Carnivorous Sheep: As TL's number one Terran hater, this pleases me. STX has taken to fielding Last on this map, and while I'm all for exercising new players, I'm sad that Last has been unable to produce results, and would often choke under pressure after obtaining a sizable advantage. I'm glad Grand Line won't be playing - Last needs practice, but it's probably more important to end the season on a reassuring note. There'll be plenty of chance for STX's upcoming Terrans to shine later.
5. Lets assume the game gets to Ace match . Will Stars be able to overcome their Ace curse once again today on Benzene? Who should STX send to try to prevent it?
swanized: Ace match curse is a relic of the past for woongjin. and seriously... who's going to ace for STX? Calm? Zero just defeated JAEDONG in a ZvZ. Kal? Kal is 0-9 against soulkey/zero/really.
Carnivorous Sheep: Benzene is a curious map as the ace map for these two teams, both fairly Zerg-Protoss heavy and lacking in Terrans. On a decidedly Terran map with no Terrans for either team to field, I would personally hope to see a ZvP. Another complicating factor is the fact that both STX and Stars are lacking of a S-class ace, so the possibilities for this ace match are endless - Kal vs. Zero, Calm vs. Zero, Kal vs. free, hero vs. free, etc. This might just come down to which team gets the luckier draw, and which player performs better. I think Kal would be a favorite against anyone Stars can field, but it'd be close, and honestly, it could go either way, but I just want to see an epic game.
6. STX zergs have accumulated 50% of the teams losses. The Stars Zergs have brought about 50% of their wins. How would you comment on that?
swanized: I think it's no secret woongjin's zerg line is the strongest of all the pro-teams, zero is incredibly good, soulkey is incredibly good, Crazy-hydra shows good promise.
STX's zerg line on the other side... Calm is slumping, hero is bad with a decent ZvP, modesty is a one-matchup wonder with a fluky OSL streak.
Carnivorous Sheep: hero's performing okay, and I'll admit Calm's been performing substandardly. However, that seems to be remedying, as he finally won a ZvZ in SPL, and combined with his momentum in the individual leagues, he seems to be making a come back. The game against Bisu showcased a brilliant strategy, and I really think Calm's recently slump took its toll as he was unable to capitalize on his advantage - something that I'm sure can be fixed with time. Look forward to more of the Brain Zerg!
7. Both teams Terran lineups were considered weak (even more so after Hwasin got involved in the match-fixing scandal and MVP jumped ship to SC2). Has that changed? We’ve seen STX play up to 4 Terrans with varying results, and Piano gets a lot of playtime.
swanized: Adding really to woongjin's terran line seriously boosted woongjin's depth a lot. Really is currently starting to look like the player he was earlier this year (with an improved TvZ) and PianO has been doing okay, overall woongjin's terran line is not very deep but at least has really to try and erase the "woongjin terran nickname"
ok I guess STX's terran line is somehow doing okay but seriously has not been looking impressive AT ALL. Bogus despite winning a bit is really shaky. Classic is an unspectacular and overall mediocre terran player.
Carnivorous Sheep: I think STX's Terrans are OK. Probably will never be S-class, but can be counted on deliver a few points here and there. Not much else for me to say.
8. A teams success is highly dependent on its coach. Who will outthink the opponent today and why?
swanized: Both coaches know their player's strength and weaknesses very well but are not incredible snipers. I think the coaching is a draw between both teams.
Carnivorous Sheep: STX's coach tends to play fairly standard with the line-ups, so I don't think there's going to be much variation on the usual line-ups. Stars, too, I think are fairly static, so I don't think there will be a huge line-up factor, and it'll come down more to who plays better. Of course this is Starcraft, and anything is possible, so who knows?
9. What will be the deciding part of todays success for your team?
swanized: Honestly as long as woongjin is careful not to lose any games in a really silly fashion I can't see STX winning this
Carnivorous Sheep: As I said before, whose players perform better. Momentum definitely helps, so taking an early lead is important. If a team gets to a 2-0 lead, I'd be willing to wager they'd end up winning the series.
10. Tell me, what do you like most about the opposing team?
swanized: I like calm a lot, he's a really calm (dat pun), smart and solid player and I really hope he gets out of his slump soon.
Carnivorous Sheep: They're so cute <3
Finally, any last words?
swanized: Look forward to Woongjin's performance in R2 and also please tune in to watch Soulkey demolish snow on the 17 th
Woongjin fighting
Carnivorous Sheep: STX fighting ^_^
EDIT: Updated with the fanboy answers! Many thanks to swanized and Carnivorous Sheep!
Hopefully we get their responses before the match lolol. And I'm going to throw a guess that Swanized is the Stars representative (maybe realpenguin) I can't think of who would be the Stx rep lulz
I agree with the pretty everything said in the predicitions betting win on whoever gets 2:0 lead :X. What about Stx vs Ace, Khan vs Kt, Hentus vs Stars, and most recently Stars vs Oz :O?
On November 16 2010 15:48 Kyuukyuu wrote: stars and stx fans too cute to trashtalk
We're all friends.
Ya wow... I was just at the T1 vs Oz thread which was full of Bisu/Jaedong ravings. This thread is much more mature.
Mostly because the hard-core Bisu fans haven't found it yet. :D And because only a few people have posted in it. Pity, because I myself LOVE fanboy answers.
On November 16 2010 15:48 Kyuukyuu wrote: stars and stx fans too cute to trashtalk
We're all friends.
Ya wow... I was just at the T1 vs Oz thread which was full of Bisu/Jaedong ravings. This thread is much more mature.
It's not about maturity, there's nothing like a good trashtalk to start an intense debate !
I'm rooting for STX because of Clam and Tossgirl, but I have a bad feeling about today's games Hope Shuttle will get a PvP (damn he lost to the horrible ssak in MSL T_T )
kal looks really good these days but woongjin has been so great all around this round, soulkey and zero and free, and i have to think they're gonna take this
I feel that Kal was really expecting mutas. That makes sense because getting those mutas before the hydra pump seems meta these days. Kal was caught way off guard.
SCV finally finds calm, but is blocked by lings from going up the ramp. SCV manages to squeeze around them just barely, and sees most of Calm's base before dying.
On November 16 2010 18:25 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On November 16 2010 18:25 ArvickHero wrote: bad idea to morph the High Templars lol, I'm pretty sure storm would've fended that off easily
He didn't have Storm. He was getting Reavers.
to sacrifice all your Zealots like that and skip storm sounds pretty meh to me -_-
The point of the strategy was to pressure the third with Zealots, force lings/Sunkens, kill Overlords with Corsairs and harass heavily with 2 DTs while switching to Reaver + potentially drops to defend the trhid. Kal got an extremely early second gas and probably still only had barley enough to do all that. It was a very precise game plan, but it got blind countered by Zero's earlier-than-usual Hydra/Overlord speed timing. There was definitely no time for Storm.
Really scans the lurkers outside his bridge and flanks them from both sides. Mutas help the lurkers though and a handful of marines die. Really's forces back off.
Siege done, vessel out. The lurkers back off a bit.
Defiler mound done.
Really pushing out with his forces, chasing Calm's troops a bit and heading towards the nat.
Wowowow. I haven't seen Really playing that well all season. A really good game from him. His micro and multi-pronged attacks really won that. Also getting those two hatchery snipes riiiight before his marines died, which really wasn't something he could control.
On November 16 2010 18:48 JohnColtrane wrote: calm was doing alright until dropships :C
Calm was severely behind after his 3rd got sniped. Mutas are supposed to stop the terran from moving out but Calm didn't manage to keep Really in his base or even harass him. After that Calm played too aggressively and got punished for lack of d.
free attacking the supply depot at the wall, 2 goons and a zealot. It almost goes down but is repaired just in time (tank came out and drove free back a bit).
4 goons headed southwest for the inevitable incoming drop yellow dropship just hangs out at 7.5 though armory being added, and a cc at frozen's nat, for 1.5
starport landed in the main, building another dropship
Well I'm not too concerned about this 4-0. Stars played quite well and there was also a lot of chance involved. Not like they were lucky wins, not at all, but STX players didn't lose on bad play as much as getting unlucky.
On November 16 2010 19:33 doothegee wrote: It's Yooi's last game commentating, guys
Why?
Military service. He went a couple years ago but his enlistment got rescinded/postponed because of some physical issue - guess that didn't happen this time around.
On November 16 2010 19:33 doothegee wrote: It's Yooi's last game commentating, guys
Why?
Military service. He went a couple years ago but his enlistment got rescinded/postponed because of some physical issue - guess that didn't happen this time around.
I just started to like his commentary style. Oh well, good luck to him!
On November 16 2010 19:34 thopol wrote: Well I'm not too concerned about this 4-0. Stars played quite well and there was also a lot of chance involved. Not like they were lucky wins, not at all, but STX players didn't lose on bad play as much as getting unlucky.
EDIT: Hyvaa played badly.
Hate to break it to you, but none of that was luck.
On November 16 2010 19:34 thopol wrote: Well I'm not too concerned about this 4-0. Stars played quite well and there was also a lot of chance involved. Not like they were lucky wins, not at all, but STX players didn't lose on bad play as much as getting unlucky.
EDIT: Hyvaa played badly.
Hate to break it to you, but none of that was luck.
Pretty standard play in every game of the series.
Woonjin just outclassed STX.
stars got some pretty favourable matchups, even really v calm was pretty good for them
On November 16 2010 19:34 thopol wrote: Well I'm not too concerned about this 4-0. Stars played quite well and there was also a lot of chance involved. Not like they were lucky wins, not at all, but STX players didn't lose on bad play as much as getting unlucky.
EDIT: Hyvaa played badly.
Hate to break it to you, but none of that was luck.
Pretty standard play in every game of the series.
Woonjin just outclassed STX.
Calm's game can be somewhat weighed on luck. The hatch went down a second before he got the rines down, but then again, it's his fault they got up there anyway.
On November 16 2010 19:34 thopol wrote: Well I'm not too concerned about this 4-0. Stars played quite well and there was also a lot of chance involved. Not like they were lucky wins, not at all, but STX players didn't lose on bad play as much as getting unlucky.
EDIT: Hyvaa played badly.
Hate to break it to you, but none of that was luck.
Pretty standard play in every game of the series.
Woonjin just outclassed STX.
Basically what I'm talking about is: 1) the relatively blind attack choice by Zero in game 1. It was totally skilled, but had Kal made different choices (not better, different), he would have held that attack easily. 2) The two hatchery snipes in game 2 were very very close. Situations where if Calm had moved his units just a second earlier it would have changed the outcome. 3) Smaller things, like not quite bringing the sunk down in game 3 or in game 4 moving the marines back from behind the mineral line just as the shuttle is coming in with its reaver. Building the starport by the obs in the top right in game 4 was kinda stupid I think, so that doesn't fit in, but we're talking situational problems more than bad decision making or play.
Like I said, they weren't lucky wins, but there were unlucky situations for our boys out there that certainly contributed to costing STX the match. The point was that there wasn't bad play, just unfortunate situations that were largely beyond either player's control to decide.
On November 16 2010 19:34 thopol wrote: Well I'm not too concerned about this 4-0. Stars played quite well and there was also a lot of chance involved. Not like they were lucky wins, not at all, but STX players didn't lose on bad play as much as getting unlucky.
EDIT: Hyvaa played badly.
Hate to break it to you, but none of that was luck.
Pretty standard play in every game of the series.
Woonjin just outclassed STX.
Basically what I'm talking about is: 1) the relatively blind attack choice by Zero in game 1. It was totally skilled, but had Kal made different choices (not better, different), he would have held that attack easily. 2) The two hatchery snipes in game 2 were very very close. Situations where if Calm had moved his units just a second earlier it would have changed the outcome. 3) Smaller things, like not quite bringing the sunk down in game 3 or in game 4 moving the marines back from behind the mineral line just as the shuttle is coming in with its reaver. Building the starport by the obs in the top right in game 4 was kinda stupid I think, so that doesn't fit in, but we're talking situational problems more than bad decision making or play.
Like I said, they weren't lucky wins, but there were unlucky situations for our boys out there that certainly contributed to costing STX the match. The point was that there wasn't bad play, just unfortunate situations that were largely beyond either player's control to decide.
"Relatively blind" ?
Zero had scourge scouting the whole game.
After Kal suicided his whole zealot force into the expo at 5, it was a pretty easy decision to mass hydras and attempt a break.
Had Kal not suicided his lots, he probably could have held off Zero's attack.
Indeed it is very "unlucky" that Woonjin played well, and STX played poorly.
On November 16 2010 19:34 thopol wrote: Well I'm not too concerned about this 4-0. Stars played quite well and there was also a lot of chance involved. Not like they were lucky wins, not at all, but STX players didn't lose on bad play as much as getting unlucky.
EDIT: Hyvaa played badly.
Hate to break it to you, but none of that was luck.
Pretty standard play in every game of the series.
Woonjin just outclassed STX.
Basically what I'm talking about is: 1) the relatively blind attack choice by Zero in game 1. It was totally skilled, but had Kal made different choices (not better, different), he would have held that attack easily. 2) The two hatchery snipes in game 2 were very very close. Situations where if Calm had moved his units just a second earlier it would have changed the outcome. 3) Smaller things, like not quite bringing the sunk down in game 3 or in game 4 moving the marines back from behind the mineral line just as the shuttle is coming in with its reaver. Building the starport by the obs in the top right in game 4 was kinda stupid I think, so that doesn't fit in, but we're talking situational problems more than bad decision making or play.
Like I said, they weren't lucky wins, but there were unlucky situations for our boys out there that certainly contributed to costing STX the match. The point was that there wasn't bad play, just unfortunate situations that were largely beyond either player's control to decide.
"Relatively blind" ?
Zero had scourge scouting the whole game.
After Kal suicided his whole zealot force into the expo at 5, it was a pretty easy decision to mass hydras and attempt a break.
Had Kal not suicided his lots, he probably could have held off Zero's attack.
Indeed it is very "unlucky" that Woonjin played well, and STX played poorly.
Zero's build blind countered Kal's build, both of which were decided by the time the Scourge got any sort of scouting information.
Losing to Stars isn't a shame. Losing to Stars 4-0 could already qualify as one, but I'm not mad at Stars. STX though... What can I do to make the pain go away?
On November 16 2010 19:34 thopol wrote: Well I'm not too concerned about this 4-0. Stars played quite well and there was also a lot of chance involved. Not like they were lucky wins, not at all, but STX players didn't lose on bad play as much as getting unlucky.
EDIT: Hyvaa played badly.
Hate to break it to you, but none of that was luck.
Pretty standard play in every game of the series.
Woonjin just outclassed STX.
Basically what I'm talking about is: 1) the relatively blind attack choice by Zero in game 1. It was totally skilled, but had Kal made different choices (not better, different), he would have held that attack easily. 2) The two hatchery snipes in game 2 were very very close. Situations where if Calm had moved his units just a second earlier it would have changed the outcome. 3) Smaller things, like not quite bringing the sunk down in game 3 or in game 4 moving the marines back from behind the mineral line just as the shuttle is coming in with its reaver. Building the starport by the obs in the top right in game 4 was kinda stupid I think, so that doesn't fit in, but we're talking situational problems more than bad decision making or play.
Like I said, they weren't lucky wins, but there were unlucky situations for our boys out there that certainly contributed to costing STX the match. The point was that there wasn't bad play, just unfortunate situations that were largely beyond either player's control to decide.
"Relatively blind" ?
Zero had scourge scouting the whole game.
After Kal suicided his whole zealot force into the expo at 5, it was a pretty easy decision to mass hydras and attempt a break.
Had Kal not suicided his lots, he probably could have held off Zero's attack.
Indeed it is very "unlucky" that Woonjin played well, and STX played poorly.
Zero's build blind countered Kal's build, both of which were decided by the time the Scourge got any sort of scouting information.
Standard 3 hatch spire -> 5 hatch hydra...it's not like it was some sort of specialized hard-counter.
Can't bealive STX is failing so much . Kal , Shuttle , Calm , Hero and Classic is a pretty good line - up . Classic in my opinion is a lot better then Frozean especially in TvP . He could have taken a game off Free . Calm keeps failing while in the past he racked up 40 + wins easily in a season . They could have attempted to snipe SoulKey with Modesty .
Zero's ZvP is solid - I still remember when he surprised Bisu with queens and sniped all his HTs. Well 4-0 is unexpected here really but Stars are on a roll under this new format.
On November 17 2010 05:32 Hazard wrote: Zero's ZvP is solid godlike - I still remember when he surprised Bisu with queens and sniped all his HTs. Well 4-0 is unexpected here really but Stars are on a roll under this new format.
I have a feeling Woongjin, Wemade, and STX share a good number of fans. Seeing STX get raped made me sad but it stung a little less since it was woongjin instead of Oz or KT or something.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/7N1fl.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/5.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/6.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/mgm2C.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/BQq73.png)
Kal < Aztec > 
ZerO
Really![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/J2myh.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/icons/uniforms/5.png)
STX SouL 0-4 Woongjin Stars![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/icons/uniforms/6.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/bQFjl.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1a2pH.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/r8bIK.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/B4BtU.png)
![[image loading]](http://reps.ru/smiles/s28.gif)
(maybe realpenguin) I can't think of who would be the Stx rep lulz
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tXkMX.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/KvFXL.jpg)
