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[MSL] Grand Final - Page 179

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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SubtleArt
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
2710 Posts
August 28 2010 21:25 GMT
#3561
On August 29 2010 05:11 arb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2010 04:20 SubtleArt wrote:
On August 29 2010 03:59 Wings wrote:
On August 29 2010 02:59 SubtleArt wrote:
On August 29 2010 01:38 Reggiegigas wrote:
Flash vs Jaedong is, honestly, the most boring matchup in E-Sports.

It's so predictable. The final game being the best example of this. I got this massive sense of deja-vu as I watched it. Simply because I've seen this exact game so many times. I could predict everything. Timings, expansions, movements on the map, everything. And JD played so uninspired. He did nothing special, playing completely into Flash's hands, and basically lost the moment the game started and he built his first drone. At no point was it close. His mutas never got close to Flash's mineral lines. Flash got momentum easily and kept it til he won. JD did nothing but struggle and gg.

I love JD, and it might seem like I'm just an angry, upset JD fan, but hell, I'm mostly just disappointed in him. It wasn't that Flash played well, he played standard. It was that JD played so fucking bad.


Sorry but he couldn't do anything BUT play into Flash's hands. Shitty map pool forced him to prepare risky, high econ builds, which Flash was easily able to predict and punish. What else was he supposed to do? Flash is too good to lose to some mass muta BS, and playing safe or standard is pretty much guarenteed to get u killed on every map but FS, especially with the bio --> mech switch thing. Better luck in the OSL jaedong, at least dreamliner actually favors zerg.

Also, fuck Odd-Eye. Why is it even in the map pool still? 71% TvZ?

Remember this joke of a map?
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/maps/201_Battle_Royal
Guess what, it was also 71% before they decided to remove it because of how ridiculous it was. Why can't we remove Odd Eye and have one of the older maps or something? Heck, even matchpoint seems fine.

... what the heck?? News break for you. Odd-Eye 1 was 57% TvZ. Odd-Eye 2 was 52% TvZ. Odd-Eye 3 has had less than 10 games played on it so far. And it's the SAME. DAMN. MAP.

SO EVERYONE STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT ODD-EYE, DAMMIT. I hope you all still remember that JD "BEAT" Flash on this map a while ago on that infamous Power Outage.


It was still really imbalanced back then, even worse than the numbers indicate (as many pros have admitted). On top of that, those statistics were many bio --> mech switches ago. Have you noticed how every single zerg recently has thumbed down odd eye when they have the chance? Players like Midas Sea and Light have stated many times that Odd Eye is a haven for Terran in TvZ, especially with mech, and that if both sides play evenly then terran should win.

Also lol @ everyone saying "jaedong deserved it he shoulda went pool first". So easy to say in retrospect when we know exactly what flash played. I'm sure in game its a bit more complex, like "is he gonna 14CC again?" "what if he expects me to think he's gonna 14CC" "he's already done it 3 times this series, he's probably thinking I'm expecting it" "what if he decided to rax first?" "Do i play 3 hatch --> pool? what if he cheeses". Doesn't help that pool first openings are only good against cheese and 14CC, and leave you automatically behind vs 1 rax, which terrans do over 90% of the time.....

People who say Jaedong deserved it are the butthurt fanboys, who are angry over Flash raping him.

Its best to just ignore it and go on with your life.
If he deserved it he would have won it


I actually like Flash more, and don't really cheer fanatically over anything starcraft related. Also I wasn't really pissed when I wrote anything here, sorry if it came across like that
Morrow on ZvP: "I'm not very confident in general vs Protoss because of the imbalance (Yes its imbalanced, get over it)."
Lebesgue
Profile Joined October 2008
4542 Posts
August 28 2010 21:25 GMT
#3562
Finally got up after staying up till 8 am

Damn, it was nerve-wrecking for me. After games 1,2 in which Flash won easily I expected Flash to take it in 3. But then Jaedong equalized and I almost got heart-attack...

But I'm glad Flash won in the end.
chocorush
Profile Joined June 2009
696 Posts
August 28 2010 21:43 GMT
#3563
I don't think people can really say that flash's 14cc build is cheesy after seeing it played so well so many times. Even game 4 where he lost to 9 pool, he lost by a razor thin margin, partly due to some awesome probe-esque drone micro. The fact is, if flash spawned in a location where the barracks could have been used as part of the wall (in game 4, it couldn't because marines would have spawned outside the wall), the wall probably WOULD have been made in time, as he wouldn't have had to wait for CC to finish the wall, and of course, there is the possibility that Jaedong would have scouted in the wrong direction.

What these things show to me is that, 14cc after scouting a 12 hatch or 14 rax after scouting pool CAN hold off a 9 pool, and is not necessarily insta-death, especially when there are many random factors that make it even easier to survive it, ESPECIALLY when 12 hatch is the standard against most terran builds. Sure, it is risky, but all builds have their own inherent risk, and this one seems quite safe in the hands of the right person.
Kyuukyuu
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada6263 Posts
August 28 2010 21:47 GMT
#3564
On August 29 2010 06:20 Harem wrote:
Game 3 was the modern-day Iris vs GGplay on Python.

It even had the mandatory multiple swarms in third itself to save third.

Too bad games like this are too few and far-between as most are already over before the games even begin.


Yeah. I was yelling GGPLAY SWARMMMMMMM for a lot of that match
sung_moon
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States10110 Posts
August 28 2010 22:21 GMT
#3565
need dem vods
flash <3
Forever Young
darkmetal505
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States639 Posts
August 28 2010 22:35 GMT
#3566
I'm sad Jaedong couldn't pull through. I got to hand it to Flash though. Those specialized timing pushes in Games 1 and 2 were freakin' beast.

Jaedong will take the OSL though when they meet again.
KristianJS
Profile Joined October 2009
2107 Posts
August 28 2010 22:35 GMT
#3567
On August 29 2010 07:21 sung_moon wrote:
need dem vods
flash <3




You need to be 100% behind someone before you can stab them in the back
Versita
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada1032 Posts
August 28 2010 23:04 GMT
#3568
god dammit i fell asleep last night right after game 1 haha

gonna watch the VODs starting from game 3, since game 2 sounds like it sucked.
Nal_rAwr
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2611 Posts
August 28 2010 23:06 GMT
#3569
On August 27 2010 16:46 flamewheel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2010 16:39 moopie wrote:
Fonjwa.

Dongwa.

Nonjwa.
Nony is Bonjwa
faculty.aCe.
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Germany107 Posts
August 28 2010 23:17 GMT
#3570
One question: Jaedong already has won 3 OSL-Titles so far, so he does have the golden mouse right? Do you also get sth. when you win 3 MSL-titles?
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11393 Posts
August 28 2010 23:21 GMT
#3571
On August 29 2010 08:17 faculty.aCe. wrote:
One question: Jaedong already has won 3 OSL-Titles so far, so he does have the golden mouse right? Do you also get sth. when you win 3 MSL-titles?

You get a golden badge.
Moderator。◕‿◕。
zenMaster
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada761 Posts
August 29 2010 00:35 GMT
#3572
Flash and Jaedong should do like a deal, give JD the MSL for his thrid, and JD will give Flash OSL for his golden mouse, now everybody is happy. har har har
DeathByMonkeys
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States742 Posts
August 29 2010 00:50 GMT
#3573
On August 29 2010 09:35 zenMaster wrote:
Flash and Jaedong should do like a deal, give JD the MSL for his thrid, and JD will give Flash OSL for his golden mouse, now everybody is happy. har har har


Why when Flash can take both?
gondolin
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
France332 Posts
August 29 2010 01:14 GMT
#3574
All in all that was a great MSL. Fantastic semi-finals, and a great final. Not so much on the quality of the games but it had it all:
- two great timing attacks from Flash
- a cluuuuutch defense from JD in game 3. That's refreshing to see such good old defiler at the last second against bio play.
- a typical agressive win/defensive blunder for Jaedong/Flash
- a teeeense fifth game that had my heart pumping!

And people whining about the quality of Jaedong's play: really? He lost the first two games due to a genius timing attack from Flash, who could have stopped that? Then in typical Jaedong's fashion he retaliated with great game management and great agression (seriously that drone block was siiick). Ok he may have mad some bad micro with his mutalisk, but that is more a testament to Flash's level of play there, he really stepped it up on his nerves after his 2-3 loss against Effort.
ahshoot
Profile Joined August 2010
1 Post
August 29 2010 01:22 GMT
#3575
a bit too late but still
[image loading]

about the finals well...
On August 29 2010 05:11 arb wrote:
People who say Jaedong deserved it are the butthurt fanboys, who are angry over Flash raping him.

Its best to just ignore it and go on with your life.
If he deserved it he would have won it
I think arb has said it all.
With so much Flash-bash, I wonder how Flash has solidified his status as a Starcraft villain in such a short time. Bashing maps is the last grace-saving resort somehow.
LorD_PaLmersToN
Profile Joined October 2009
Canada375 Posts
August 29 2010 02:17 GMT
#3576
just watched, awesome.

thats all
yeh..
setzer
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3284 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-29 03:13:18
August 29 2010 03:13 GMT
#3577
How different would the game had been had Jaedong not taken the mineral only? I thought his lurker defense at the dbl gas was really good and the same at the mineral only, but it did getting that expansion affect his hive timing? If Jaedong had a fast defiler I think he could have taken the game with the 3rd gas pretty secure until the last confrontation, given Flash's practically all-in 2base play.
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11393 Posts
August 29 2010 03:22 GMT
#3578
On August 29 2010 12:13 setzer wrote:
How different would the game had been had Jaedong not taken the mineral only? I thought his lurker defense at the dbl gas was really good and the same at the mineral only, but it did getting that expansion affect his hive timing? If Jaedong had a fast defiler I think he could have taken the game with the 3rd gas pretty secure until the last confrontation, given Flash's practically all-in 2base play.

If you want a secure third gas vs bio with standard fast defiler play then you have to take one of the side expos. The two entrances to the double gas plus also having to defend the nat is just too much of a pain for typical zvt play.

However, when you take one of the side expos, additional gas expos are a pain to take. (unless you took both side expos which at least gives 4 gas)
Moderator。◕‿◕。
dybydx
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Canada1764 Posts
August 29 2010 03:33 GMT
#3579
GO......
+ Show Spoiler +
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
...from the land of imba
QuothTheRaven
Profile Joined December 2008
United States5524 Posts
August 29 2010 03:49 GMT
#3580
On August 29 2010 06:25 Lebesgue wrote:
Finally got up after staying up till 8 am

Damn, it was nerve-wrecking for me. After games 1,2 in which Flash won easily I expected Flash to take it in 3. But then Jaedong equalized and I almost got heart-attack...

But I'm glad Flash won in the end.

Same for me! Flash has no respect for my nerves
. . . nevermore
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