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On August 21 2010 16:13 LuigiNMario wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 16:10 AppleTart wrote:On August 21 2010 16:06 LuigiNMario wrote:On August 21 2010 16:05 AppleTart wrote:On August 21 2010 16:04 LuigiNMario wrote:On August 21 2010 16:02 AppleTart wrote:On August 21 2010 16:01 LuigiNMario wrote:On August 21 2010 16:00 _awake_ wrote:On August 21 2010 15:50 LuigiNMario wrote:On August 21 2010 15:48 King K. Rool wrote:
[quote]I don't think Jaedong really cares about getting a friend in Light.
And "abusing"? That's going a bit far. Queens were part of his strategy; they were there for both shock value and for actual game-play value (cut in half how long it takes to kill a CC).
And it worked.
The way you put it, it's like you'd hate every trashtalker that ever existed in the history of sports.
There's no way in hell you can expect competitors to always remain mannered towards each other.
I wouldn't say the queens were abusing anything, but early ling cheese/agression 2times was overboard. what's wrong with early ling aggression? it's the terran's fault for skimping out on defense Again, it was 2 times it was like jd refused to go to lategame no matter what. players aren't obligated to go to lategame It's not obligated, but i think it's courtesy to go atleast to mid game where jd can show off some good muta harrass and win. I just feel it's much cleaner and you won't get bashed on. you think JD gives a fuck if a couple guys on TL bash him? Oh yeah, It's also common courtesy to not blind 14cc 3 times Light clearly has balls  , and remember jd got his ass wooped by flash's 14cc. all ins and 14cc are opposite sides of the "having balls" spectrum, but both test balls and stupidity arguably. It's a very careful balance. Yes Flash's 14cc schooled JD, but it wasn't always blind AND he was doing something that worked for him to take it to mid game where he was more confident. JD just lost a late game, he doesn't want to go there because its the MSL semi's game 5. JD did what worked for him. Like I said, Light didn't put a bunker, his problem. Light obviously was greedy, but no idea if he had no money at all in the first place.
Well, he certainly had PLENTY of SCVs mining away at the nat, he could have cut one or two and made a bunker. The standard build puts a depot and bunker with the CC to form a slanted wall. Light got greedy and skimped out and was punished...
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On August 21 2010 16:16 OpticalShot wrote:
This thread's fanboy/girl arguments are too weak. I'm expecting better after the finals =P
Can you really call me a fanboy for hating on cheesy zergling agression?
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On August 21 2010 16:15 LuigiNMario wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 16:13 andrewlt wrote:On August 21 2010 16:01 LuigiNMario wrote:On August 21 2010 16:00 _awake_ wrote:On August 21 2010 15:50 LuigiNMario wrote:On August 21 2010 15:48 King K. Rool wrote:On August 21 2010 15:41 Savant wrote:On August 21 2010 15:33 shadesofkarma wrote:On August 21 2010 15:32 ilj.psa wrote:On August 21 2010 15:25 Monkeyshark wrote:
[quote]
Maybe some people don't like to see bm from big advantage, you know. I enjoyed game 2 and 3, it didn't matter who would win those games because it was exciting as hell but they other 3 I can't say the same. hm dunno if your saying it was "bm" from jaedong. but it was strategy nothing with bm, he needed to get those CC's to cut Lights economy and proceed to macro. i dont think JD woudl had even won the games if it wasn't for the queens Not really for bm I think but more to play mind games with Light and make him cry. So abusing a clearly defeated opponent for your ego is good manners? Doing that after losing 2 straight-up games is just bad taste. He's not getting a friend in Light and he's not getting a fan in me either. Jaedong should put his competitiveness in perspective. I don't think Jaedong really cares about getting a friend in Light. And "abusing"? That's going a bit far. Queens were part of his strategy; they were there for both shock value and for actual game-play value (cut in half how long it takes to kill a CC). And it worked. The way you put it, it's like you'd hate every trashtalker that ever existed in the history of sports. There's no way in hell you can expect competitors to always remain mannered towards each other. I wouldn't say the queens were abusing anything, but early ling cheese/agression 2times was overboard. what's wrong with early ling aggression? it's the terran's fault for skimping out on defense Again, it was 2 times it was like jd refused to go to lategame no matter what. Terran has a late game auto-win. Zerg has an early game advantage. WTF do you think a zerg would do? Let the Terran get his auto-win? Because 2 hatch mutas into ling + muta bust is so hard to incorporate into mid game TvZ right? :D
Why? The entire premise of your argument is that Jaedong should use the strategy that is the least conducive to victory. He's not fucking Savior who's betting against himself.
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On August 21 2010 16:17 AppleTart wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 16:13 LuigiNMario wrote:On August 21 2010 16:10 AppleTart wrote:On August 21 2010 16:06 LuigiNMario wrote:On August 21 2010 16:05 AppleTart wrote:On August 21 2010 16:04 LuigiNMario wrote:On August 21 2010 16:02 AppleTart wrote:On August 21 2010 16:01 LuigiNMario wrote:On August 21 2010 16:00 _awake_ wrote:On August 21 2010 15:50 LuigiNMario wrote:
[quote]
I wouldn't say the queens were abusing anything, but early ling cheese/agression 2times was overboard.
what's wrong with early ling aggression? it's the terran's fault for skimping out on defense Again, it was 2 times it was like jd refused to go to lategame no matter what. players aren't obligated to go to lategame It's not obligated, but i think it's courtesy to go atleast to mid game where jd can show off some good muta harrass and win. I just feel it's much cleaner and you won't get bashed on. you think JD gives a fuck if a couple guys on TL bash him? Oh yeah, It's also common courtesy to not blind 14cc 3 times Light clearly has balls , and remember jd got his ass wooped by flash's 14cc. all ins and 14cc are opposite sides of the "having balls" spectrum, but both test balls and stupidity arguably. It's a very careful balance. Yes Flash's 14cc schooled JD, but it wasn't always blind AND he was doing something that worked for him to take it to mid game where he was more confident. JD just lost a late game, he doesn't want to go there because its the MSL semi's game 5. JD did what worked for him. Like I said, Light didn't put a bunker, his problem. Light obviously was greedy, but no idea if he had no money at all in the first place. Well, he certainly had PLENTY of SCVs mining away at the nat, he could have cut one or two and made a bunker. The standard build puts a depot and bunker with the CC to form a slanted wall. Light got greedy and skimped out and was punished...
YESSS, I can handle 1 game being thrown away like that, but 2? ALL THE MAPS WERE TERRAN FAVORED not just PR ==;
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On August 21 2010 16:17 LuigiNMario wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 16:16 OpticalShot wrote:
This thread's fanboy/girl arguments are too weak. I'm expecting better after the finals =P Can you really call me a fanboy for hating on cheesy zergling agression?
Well I hate blind 14cc's.... lets just drop this.
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On August 21 2010 16:10 FireGuyX wrote:
I still don't understand why zergs go mass hydra against Terran mech? Can someone explain? I hope JD doesn't do that against Flash, I think it's a ridiculous strategy, but it sometimes work.
Counters vultures, somewhat counters goliaths.
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On August 21 2010 16:18 LuigiNMario wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 16:17 AppleTart wrote:On August 21 2010 16:13 LuigiNMario wrote:On August 21 2010 16:10 AppleTart wrote:On August 21 2010 16:06 LuigiNMario wrote:On August 21 2010 16:05 AppleTart wrote:On August 21 2010 16:04 LuigiNMario wrote:On August 21 2010 16:02 AppleTart wrote:On August 21 2010 16:01 LuigiNMario wrote:On August 21 2010 16:00 _awake_ wrote:
[quote]
what's wrong with early ling aggression? it's the terran's fault for skimping out on defense Again, it was 2 times it was like jd refused to go to lategame no matter what. players aren't obligated to go to lategame It's not obligated, but i think it's courtesy to go atleast to mid game where jd can show off some good muta harrass and win. I just feel it's much cleaner and you won't get bashed on. you think JD gives a fuck if a couple guys on TL bash him? Oh yeah, It's also common courtesy to not blind 14cc 3 times Light clearly has balls , and remember jd got his ass wooped by flash's 14cc. all ins and 14cc are opposite sides of the "having balls" spectrum, but both test balls and stupidity arguably. It's a very careful balance. Yes Flash's 14cc schooled JD, but it wasn't always blind AND he was doing something that worked for him to take it to mid game where he was more confident. JD just lost a late game, he doesn't want to go there because its the MSL semi's game 5. JD did what worked for him. Like I said, Light didn't put a bunker, his problem. Light obviously was greedy, but no idea if he had no money at all in the first place. Well, he certainly had PLENTY of SCVs mining away at the nat, he could have cut one or two and made a bunker. The standard build puts a depot and bunker with the CC to form a slanted wall. Light got greedy and skimped out and was punished... YESSS, I can handle 1 game being thrown away like that, but 2? ALL THE MAPS WERE TERRAN FAVORED not just PR ==;
Haha in that case blame light for fail repairing, fail walling, and no bunkering, dont blame JD
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On August 21 2010 16:16 OpticalShot wrote:
This thread's fanboy/girl arguments are too weak. I'm expecting better after the finals =P
Jaedong Death Stare > Light Pout Face.
Simple as that.
I suspect Jaedong Death Stare > Flash Eye Twitch as well.
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On August 21 2010 16:17 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 16:15 LuigiNMario wrote:On August 21 2010 16:13 andrewlt wrote:On August 21 2010 16:01 LuigiNMario wrote:On August 21 2010 16:00 _awake_ wrote:On August 21 2010 15:50 LuigiNMario wrote:On August 21 2010 15:48 King K. Rool wrote:On August 21 2010 15:41 Savant wrote:On August 21 2010 15:33 shadesofkarma wrote:On August 21 2010 15:32 ilj.psa wrote:
[quote]
hm dunno if your saying it was "bm" from jaedong. but it was strategy nothing with bm, he needed to get those CC's to cut Lights economy and proceed to macro. i dont think JD woudl had even won the games if it wasn't for the queens
Not really for bm I think but more to play mind games with Light and make him cry. So abusing a clearly defeated opponent for your ego is good manners? Doing that after losing 2 straight-up games is just bad taste. He's not getting a friend in Light and he's not getting a fan in me either. Jaedong should put his competitiveness in perspective. I don't think Jaedong really cares about getting a friend in Light. And "abusing"? That's going a bit far. Queens were part of his strategy; they were there for both shock value and for actual game-play value (cut in half how long it takes to kill a CC). And it worked. The way you put it, it's like you'd hate every trashtalker that ever existed in the history of sports. There's no way in hell you can expect competitors to always remain mannered towards each other. I wouldn't say the queens were abusing anything, but early ling cheese/agression 2times was overboard. what's wrong with early ling aggression? it's the terran's fault for skimping out on defense Again, it was 2 times it was like jd refused to go to lategame no matter what. Terran has a late game auto-win. Zerg has an early game advantage. WTF do you think a zerg would do? Let the Terran get his auto-win? Because 2 hatch mutas into ling + muta bust is so hard to incorporate into mid game TvZ right? :D Why? The entire premise of your argument is that Jaedong should use the strategy that is the least conducive to victory. He's not fucking Savior who's betting against himself.
All i ask is not to cheese 2 games in a semi and cheesing doesn't have the best chance of winning 
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On August 21 2010 16:17 LuigiNMario wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 16:16 OpticalShot wrote:
This thread's fanboy/girl arguments are too weak. I'm expecting better after the finals =P Can you really call me a fanboy for hating on cheesy zergling agression?
Cheese is hardly a valid argument in TvZ, the matchup of 'invincible' strategies with exploitable timings. Sometimes they just won't be able to stop it.
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On August 21 2010 16:18 AppleTart wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 16:17 LuigiNMario wrote:On August 21 2010 16:16 OpticalShot wrote:
This thread's fanboy/girl arguments are too weak. I'm expecting better after the finals =P Can you really call me a fanboy for hating on cheesy zergling agression? Well I hate blind 14cc's.... lets just drop this.
 14cc is how terran gets the early lead D:
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JD doesn't have to do anything for you man. He does what he has to in order to win.
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On August 21 2010 16:16 LuigiNMario wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 16:15 SkelA wrote:
FYCK i thought this match was 17/18 KST.... need vods asap ! I can't really say you missed any beastly games.
Are you serious?
Game 2? Game 3? Game 4?
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On August 21 2010 16:17 LuigiNMario wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 16:16 OpticalShot wrote:
This thread's fanboy/girl arguments are too weak. I'm expecting better after the finals =P Can you really call me a fanboy for hating on cheesy zergling agression?
Nothing cheesy about it, ling aggression is always dangerous when you go for these eco oriented builds. There's a reason why Flash is fond of bunkers at the front door, particularly when scouting many lings being made. It's as cheesy as terran mech (i.e. a totally legit strat with pros and cons).
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So 2 cheeses means he just wants to win or he was desperate not to go to midgame?
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On August 21 2010 16:19 LuigiNMario wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 16:17 andrewlt wrote:On August 21 2010 16:15 LuigiNMario wrote:On August 21 2010 16:13 andrewlt wrote:On August 21 2010 16:01 LuigiNMario wrote:On August 21 2010 16:00 _awake_ wrote:On August 21 2010 15:50 LuigiNMario wrote:On August 21 2010 15:48 King K. Rool wrote:On August 21 2010 15:41 Savant wrote:On August 21 2010 15:33 shadesofkarma wrote:
[quote]
Not really for bm I think but more to play mind games with Light and make him cry. So abusing a clearly defeated opponent for your ego is good manners? Doing that after losing 2 straight-up games is just bad taste. He's not getting a friend in Light and he's not getting a fan in me either. Jaedong should put his competitiveness in perspective. I don't think Jaedong really cares about getting a friend in Light. And "abusing"? That's going a bit far. Queens were part of his strategy; they were there for both shock value and for actual game-play value (cut in half how long it takes to kill a CC). And it worked. The way you put it, it's like you'd hate every trashtalker that ever existed in the history of sports. There's no way in hell you can expect competitors to always remain mannered towards each other. I wouldn't say the queens were abusing anything, but early ling cheese/agression 2times was overboard. what's wrong with early ling aggression? it's the terran's fault for skimping out on defense Again, it was 2 times it was like jd refused to go to lategame no matter what. Terran has a late game auto-win. Zerg has an early game advantage. WTF do you think a zerg would do? Let the Terran get his auto-win? Because 2 hatch mutas into ling + muta bust is so hard to incorporate into mid game TvZ right? :D Why? The entire premise of your argument is that Jaedong should use the strategy that is the least conducive to victory. He's not fucking Savior who's betting against himself. All i ask is not to cheese 2 games in a semi and cheesing doesn't have the best chance of winning
That's not cheesing. It's called the best counter to mech transition.
And you know what? Even if it's cheesing, if it's the most viable counter to late game mech, then too bad. Maybe next series, Jaedong can agree not to attack with zerglings if Flash agrees not to build a factory.
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On August 21 2010 16:20 LuigiNMario wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 16:18 AppleTart wrote:On August 21 2010 16:17 LuigiNMario wrote:On August 21 2010 16:16 OpticalShot wrote:
This thread's fanboy/girl arguments are too weak. I'm expecting better after the finals =P Can you really call me a fanboy for hating on cheesy zergling agression? Well I hate blind 14cc's.... lets just drop this. 14cc is how terran gets the early lead D:
And to prevent that zerg muta ling busts them if they DON'T bunker (Lights fault cough cough not JD's!)
Just don't blame JD anymore haha he did something and light could have fought it off but didn't because well maybe he just was feeling greedy or didn't give a fuck. Light was to blame for that loss.
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Game 5 he went all-in after immediately realizing that after his initial aggression had success that if he went all-in he would win. His style is to aggressively poke around waiting to find a weakspot or weak timeframe in your defenses, and then once he spots it he grabs it by the throat without any amatuerish hesitation. Its playing zerg, specifically ZvT, at its highest level ever. Just enjoy it while we can.
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On August 21 2010 16:21 revy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 16:17 LuigiNMario wrote:On August 21 2010 16:16 OpticalShot wrote:
This thread's fanboy/girl arguments are too weak. I'm expecting better after the finals =P Can you really call me a fanboy for hating on cheesy zergling agression? Nothing cheesy about it, ling aggression is always dangerous when you go for these eco oriented builds. There's a reason why Flash is fond of bunkers at the front door, particularly when scouting many lings being made. It's as cheesy as terran mech (i.e. a totally legit strat with pros and cons).
Yes, but against mech being greedy is rather good :l
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On August 21 2010 16:17 LuigiNMario wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 16:16 OpticalShot wrote:
This thread's fanboy/girl arguments are too weak. I'm expecting better after the finals =P Can you really call me a fanboy for hating on cheesy zergling agression?
Nah... Why would anyone be aggressive with the first military unit to come out? I mean, Zergs by their nature are not an aggressive race right?
God bro, early aggression is how u punish greed, any competent player would do the same.
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EPT
