Friday, June 18, 18:00 KST, 11:00 CEST, 5:00 EDT, 2:00 PDT on OGN
Tonight, the players that advanced from the OSL Ro36 Day 1 will go on to face last season's Ro16 contenders.
Sea vs great Great comes to us, having 2-0'd Best in a traditional Z>P gay fashion. Great has been playing well lately, winning Khan a couple of matches in ace games. Sea was the lucky winner of the wildcard tournament in prelims, granting him a free pass from the first half of the Ro36 despite the fact that he was not in the OSL last season (fucking Soulkey...). Sea is starting to return to his usual form as the Atlas carrying MBCGame Hero on his back, and his team's performance has begun to return to good form with him. His TvZ is a force to be reckoned with; however, great certainly can't be counted out. Neither of these solid players has accomplished much in individual leagues. Their reputation is on the line. Will Yum Bosung flex his enormous TvZ muscles tonight? Or will he crumble to his individual league curse? Regardless of who wins, we can expect this to be the match of the night between two players in their top form.
Calm vs free Ah, Calm. Or should I say Clam? Yes, this on-and-off zerg player loves to flaunt his inconsistency. Though he is often a solid player with a capability for excellent strategic sense (as demonstrated by his MSL gold), it seems that we have not seen Calm play well since his loss 1-3 in his rematch against Jaedong. A month or two ago, Free was showing some excellent play, briefly climbing to 3rd in ELO ranking, but he, too, has seemed to fall off the radar recently. As I always feel obligated to mention, though, this will be a ZvP, a matchup that has been looking very one-sided lately (with a few exceptions). But both of these players have shown that they have what it takes to deliver a great match. May we have a night full of beautiful storms and sexy swarms, and devoid of 5sh6sh7sh8sh9sh1a2a3a4a.
Hyuk vs RuBy Hyuk is one of the SKT zergs - a phrase which was once synonymous with "suck." However, over the past month or so, this stereotype has been flipped on its head, with SKT zergs scoring a number of wins for the team. I would give Hyuk a good chance to advance here if it weren't for his opponent's race. You see, Hyuk managed to win a few ZvTs recently, bolstering his vT winrate to a staggering 33.3%. Ruby is the Airforce ACE's ace player, though that isn't saying much, given his team. Ruby's only good (or even decent) matchup is TvZ (despite this, he deserves credit for defeating JangBi last round with some creative play). But his TvZ is damn good. So, all signs point to us seeing the common scene of precise, solid Terran play rolling over a mediocre Zerg. Will Hyuk be able to surprise us all? Or will Airforce ACE continue to delve deeper into the individual leagues?
So, buckle your seat belts, sit back, and enjoy the ride as we watch these players duke it out!
Free hasn't played televised PvZ in a while, but PvZ games are so ridiculously Zerg-favored right now that I have trouble calling a P a favorite in any matchup that is not blatantly one-sided. But we haven't seen either player in this matchup in a while, so it's hard to know what will happen.
great has been playing exceptionally lately! however, it is unfortunate he must come up again sea who is going to crush him (just like he did in the prelims)
Sorry that this is all I had time to put into the OP. I would have added more, but I was just making the thread because no one else had done it yet. If I'd had all night to prepare I would have had some nice poorly-edited photos as well. :/
On June 18 2010 17:57 matjlav wrote: Sorry that this is all I had time to put into the OP. I would have added more, but I was just making the thread because no one else had done it yet. If I'd had all night to prepare I would have had some nice poorly-edited photos as well. :/
Does anyone know what the point is of the girls in the booths? They always just stand there awkwardly, and I've never understood if they actually serve some purpose aside from looking pretty.
On June 18 2010 18:08 matjlav wrote: Does anyone know what the point is of the girls in the booths? They always just stand there awkwardly, and I've never understood if they actually serve some purpose aside from looking pretty.
To make sure the players are ready and to close the door securely without the players having to get up when they are set.
On June 18 2010 17:57 matjlav wrote: Sorry that this is all I had time to put into the OP. I would have added more, but I was just making the thread because no one else had done it yet. If I'd had all night to prepare I would have had some nice poorly-edited photos as well. :/
The OP's great, don't worry : ]
here, I made a poorly drawn picture for you that you can use!
On June 18 2010 18:08 matjlav wrote: Does anyone know what the point is of the girls in the booths? They always just stand there awkwardly, and I've never understood if they actually serve some purpose aside from looking pretty.
if u watch some games carefully you can see the star girls give massages to the players they like during live games
Great didn't have the speed for his build. That time where his mutas just sat taking hits, the poor movements of his lurkers at the 3rd... he'd be crushing I think, if he just had better multitask/speed.
3 o'clock survives, Sea moves his vultures back down to the bottom right and kills some eggs before they can hatch. Mutalisk is trying to stop them but the hatchery will go down.
On June 18 2010 18:22 samachking wrote: Solid game from Sea. Great however... Lurker openings dont work anymore unless you are going to all in don't do it
Oh really? Jaedong had a period of several months or weeks where he didn't built mutalisks at all in ZvT.
On June 18 2010 18:23 Turbovolver wrote: Great didn't have the speed for his build. That time where his mutas just sat taking hits, the poor movements of his lurkers at the 3rd... he'd be crushing I think, if he just had better multitask/speed.
His hive timing was not good enough to defend vs the even quicker( no turrets built) 3 tank 1 vessel push due to the fact he went double tech. Lurker openings are pretty iffy, and they are pretty terrible to gain map control. It's not multitask, it's just Sea reading him well and playing a solid strong game.
On June 18 2010 18:22 samachking wrote: Solid game from Sea. Great however... Lurker openings dont work anymore unless you are going to all in don't do it
Oh really? Jaedong had a period of several months or weeks where he didn't built mutalisks at all in ZvT.
What period was this? I highly doubt it's on very open 4 player maps.
On June 18 2010 18:22 samachking wrote: Solid game from Sea. Great however... Lurker openings dont work anymore unless you are going to all in don't do it
Oh really? Jaedong had a period of several months or weeks where he didn't built mutalisks at all in ZvT.
Jaedong can do whatever he wants. He didn't even make a single lurker in the MSL finals he won vs Flash.
Sea letting his science vessels pop like Pringles or something. I don't think he cares at this point. Tanks moving into 3 o'clock, sunkens all going down.
On June 18 2010 18:22 samachking wrote: Solid game from Sea. Great however... Lurker openings dont work anymore unless you are going to all in don't do it
Oh really? Jaedong had a period of several months or weeks where he didn't built mutalisks at all in ZvT.
Jaedong can do whatever he wants. He didn't even make a single lurker in the MSL finals he won vs Flash.
crazy zerg is a common strategy in zvt, what's that got to do with anything?
On June 18 2010 18:22 samachking wrote: Solid game from Sea. Great however... Lurker openings dont work anymore unless you are going to all in don't do it
Oh really? Jaedong had a period of several months or weeks where he didn't built mutalisks at all in ZvT.
Jaedong can do whatever he wants. He didn't even make a single lurker in the MSL finals he won vs Flash.
crazy zerg is common strategy in zvt, what's taht got to do with anything?
He only used crazy zerg in game 3 though. 2hat muta. Quick drop to secure 4 base 2island with greater spire into ultraling Crazy Zerg Rape failed 8rax.
On June 18 2010 18:31 arbiter_md wrote: Terran so imba. Sea didn't do anything special, and got an easy win. Even the successful muta harass didn't help great.
It was succesful until great decided that he doesn't need his mutas and threw them away . They could have done a lot more then killing 7 SCVs .
On June 18 2010 18:31 arbiter_md wrote: Terran so imba. Sea didn't do anything special, and got an easy win. Even the successful muta harass didn't help great.
What the hell has happened to TvZ? All of a sudden there are vultures and tanks with MnM with mines all over the map. And then there are 12 tanks sieging up outside Greats natural and gg. Not to mention Sea's 5-6 bases. TvZ is in a transformational period I guess
On June 18 2010 18:31 arbiter_md wrote: Terran so imba. Sea didn't do anything special, and got an easy win. Even the successful muta harass didn't help great.
Right... That's why only Flash,Light, Sea, Ruby have decent macro and strong control in TvZ, and people keep complaining about Fantasy's horrible TvZ and crappy bio control.
A strong TvZer vs a mediocre zerg will give you a game like that.
On June 18 2010 18:22 samachking wrote: Solid game from Sea. Great however... Lurker openings dont work anymore unless you are going to all in don't do it
Oh really? Jaedong had a period of several months or weeks where he didn't built mutalisks at all in ZvT.
Jaedong can do whatever he wants. He didn't even make a single lurker in the MSL finals he won vs Flash.
crazy zerg is common strategy in zvt, what's taht got to do with anything?
He only used crazy zerg in game 3 though. 2hat muta. Quick drop to secure 4 base 2island with greater spire into ultraling Crazy Zerg Rape failed 8rax.
game 3 was the same as far as I remember. That was the power outage game on this t>>> z map. Jd went mut/ling only, lost his third but bought enough time to get directly to hive tech with double upgraded ultralisks
747 flying around in Sea's expansion while a zergling chases an SCV around the map. Otherwise not much happening, Sea just accumulating marines. Looks like Great will send his zerglings again but he won't be able to get in.
good lord great is pretty bad. i mean he has only to control his group of mutalisks at this point and still manages to lose one due to not paying attention wtf
Mutalisks have basically achieved nothing at this point. Sea is playing mostly defensively but he has some marines wandering around the top of the map.
Great played 2 strong builds on this map, creative play. This map seems pretty fun. Though it's probably as imbalanced as Hitchiker, which will make it just as fun to watch.
Great's atack fails miserably, with guards shooting at factories instead of tanks/scvs and his hydra/zergling without defiler shooting at turrets and stuff.
Great is basically chugging along uninterrupted now. Sea drops at 3 o'clock with some goliaths. Great sent a bunch of overlords to the bottom right but it doesn't look like they actually had units in them.
Great's late game play is actually a lot better than I thought it'd be. It's a shame that it looks like Sea will fail again to go deep in a starleague, but Great is playing, well, adequately.
On June 18 2010 19:21 TwoToneTerran wrote: Great's late game play is actually a lot better than I thought it'd be. It's a shame that it looks like Sea will fail again to go deep in a starleague, but Great is playing, well, adequately.
Needs more mutas to abuse the mobility and air upgrades ...
Great taking 9 o'clock for the third or fourth time. Sea killing it for the third or fourth time. Guardians pushing into the bottom right. Guardians dying in the bottom right.
[06:30] <@MrFoon> "I thought I was ahead for the early phases of the last game, but suddenly I started losing. So I tried my best and won" [06:30] <@MrFoon> "Why didn't you leave?" [06:30] <@MrFoon> "I knew zerg was desperate too, so I stayed in the game"
On June 18 2010 19:32 Zona wrote: wow, I'm surprised at the amount of people who thought it was a spectacular game. Do you guys like seeing units clash and die?
On June 18 2010 19:32 Zona wrote: wow, I'm surprised at the amount of people who thought it was a spectacular game. Do you guys like seeing units clash and die?
There is no such thing as a good mech game TvZ if Zerg isn't raping or in control all game long. Mech turtling is just boring.
On June 18 2010 19:32 Zona wrote: wow, I'm surprised at the amount of people who thought it was a spectacular game. Do you guys like seeing units clash and die?
Question for those who happened to catch the commercial of the trio singing "GG": who was that in the center? Hwasin? Could someone provide a link to said commercial, please? =D
On June 18 2010 19:34 Zona wrote: but the battles were all mediocre. Sea did not use his army particularly well. And great used his ground army in a horrifically bad manner.
He needed to defend the 9 o'clock island with his life, and he just didn't do it.
On June 18 2010 19:32 Zona wrote: wow, I'm surprised at the amount of people who thought it was a spectacular game. Do you guys like seeing units clash and die?
Any game where the Terran secures as many bases as Sea did is usually gg for the Zerg. The fact that great managed to come so close to winning really is remarkable, and that was reflected in the game. And this isn't like a Flash vs Action-style "Aww, that's so cute, the Zerg tried so hard"; I was seriously worried for Sea at several points in the game.
In a mech TvZ, Zerg armies are going to be suicided. That's the nature of it. But great actually managed to break Sea's defense at several points, making the game exciting to the very end.
On June 18 2010 19:34 Zona wrote: but the battles were all mediocre. Sea did not use his army particularly well. And great used his ground army in a horrifically bad manner.
He needed to defend the 9 o'clock island with his life, and he just didn't do it.
@ everybody who is complaing that great was just throwing away his units:
It's not that easy to micro every single unit when you are simultanously dropping, being dropped, attacking and harrassing with guardians. Also he tried to break Sea's defence twice with a 200 supply army, but just couldn't go all the way against the 3-3 mech army. How's that throwing away your units!? Should have great just kept them in his base? And did you really miss that great successfully harrassed Sea's economy all the game. For most of the game Sea could mine from only half his min lines because at the other bases there were either lurkers, lings, hydras or guardians.
defending 9 would have helped a lot, but it wouldn't have necessarily given him a victory - sea had 4, 5, and 6 all full of minerals and great had a depleting 12 and 3, along with the fresh 9.
great's window of opportunity was when he had 4 or 5 mineral bases running along with all of his gasses, but all he did was throw his units away in small groups rather than assemble an effective attack.
On June 18 2010 19:32 Zona wrote: wow, I'm surprised at the amount of people who thought it was a spectacular game. Do you guys like seeing units clash and die?
Any game where the Terran secures as many bases as Sea did is usually gg for the Zerg. The fact that great managed to come so close to winning really is remarkable, and that was reflected in the game. And this isn't like a Flash vs Action-style "Aww, that's so cute, the Zerg tried so hard"; I was seriously worried for Sea at several points in the game.
In a mech TvZ, Zerg armies are going to be suicided. That's the nature of it. But great actually managed to break Sea's defense at several points, making the game exciting to the very end.
Yeah except Sea didn't SECURE that many bases. They were all really vulnerable and a good coordinated attack by great would have won him the game. He could have dropped the production facilities pretty much all game long.
I liked the game because there were a couple of good battles where great synchronized the attack with swarms and plagues.
Also, it seemed to me a back and forth game. After getting 5 expos, and seeing how great does nothing for like 2 minutes, I thought terran has this game. But great managed to come back and almost win the game. Seems like the thrown units in the last 5 minutes of the game wasn't a good idea. And that 9-o'clock expo. He had it. Felt kinda sorry, he threw the game away.
sure it's not easy, that's why these players are supposed to be pros.
And great did stop mining more a few times and there were a few effective attacks, but it was the uncountable OTHER attacks with mere handfuls of units thrown into the mech wall that cost him.
I liked how Sea's Supply count was always around 100-130. Great did a good job reducing that. I really felt Great's guardians didn't do much as he had hoped as the guardians failed defend his island expos or deny/kill 4oclock enough
Free held that really well, all things considered. You almost always lose your wall off buildings when a hydra break comes and he lost a surprisingly low amount of probes in that defense.
Sweet, subtle move by free. Throw a couple hurt units forward to draw the hydras and storm them so that they either all die to the storm or have to dodge into the cannons. I love little tricks like that
seriously, that gotta be the worst strategy ever. I mean, if you are gonna cheese, please do a cheese where you end up ahead if it works. This strategy would give clam at best an even game even if free was unprepared -.-
If only Calm had played today instead of Clam. I would have been right.
Also, I really hope someone translates the interviews for this set. Sea looked so happy for his interview; I'd love to know what he was actually saying.
why does people really think calm would beet free?? sure he would probably put up a fight if he didn't cheese both games but I don't really think he has a chance against free...
On June 18 2010 20:19 J1.au wrote: FFS I'm so sick of being reminded of the OSL finals.
Sorry, but I love it. Just seeing it again gives me goosebumps. Effort4tehwin! ^_^ And since Flash got the MSL I don't have to feel bad for him either, witch makes the OSL result even better.
A failed pool first puts zergs really really far behind T.T. I dont think he will be able to defend against the pressure against 3rd push or the 3 tank 1 vessel push.
then for some reason ruby smiles a bit afterwards...
well Hyuk did pretty well - I was wondering why he only half-committed to his earlier ling attack by attacking and pulling back, which wasted quite a few lings, but the mutaling worked well
Hyuk's won games in other fashions before, although not many ZvT's
And a low-economy build isn't necessarily all-in as long as it has a good chance of damaging the opponent's economy more than what the player forgos himself.
On June 18 2010 20:40 Zona wrote: Hyuk's won games in other fashions before, although not many ZvT's
And a low-economy build isn't necessarily all-in as long as it has a good chance of damaging the opponent's economy more than what the player forgos himself.
Isn't that sort of like saying that a 4pool isn't all-in as long as it wins the game?
On June 18 2010 20:40 Zona wrote: Hyuk's won games in other fashions before, although not many ZvT's
And a low-economy build isn't necessarily all-in as long as it has a good chance of damaging the opponent's economy more than what the player forgos himself.
Isn't that sort of like saying that a 4pool isn't all-in as long as it wins the game?
2 hatch muta to fast turrets is one of the few cases of BO disadvantage that zergs can actually win frm in zvt. Always so entertaining to see zerg trying to piack apart a well defended base
see it would've been nice if an ACE player made it to the significant stages of the starleagues this season but whatever... it's gonna be nice to see Hyuk get rolled in ro.16
why didnt ruby just stay on 1 base instead of trying to defend the expo? if he just floated it back and rolled out with a big mass wouldnt he crush hyun who was pretty much allin ?
On June 18 2010 20:59 MorningMusume11 wrote: see it would've been nice if an ACE player made it to the significant stages of the starleagues this season but whatever... it's gonna be nice to see Hyuk get rolled in ro.16
Depends on who he's up against, I'd also say the same. At most Ro8.
On June 18 2010 21:00 EvilSky wrote: why didnt ruby just stay on 1 base instead of trying to defend the expo? if he just floated it back and rolled out with a big mass wouldnt he crush hyun who was pretty much allin ?
Expanding is fine.
It's just he went for early +1 and added raxes too late which you can't do on this map as shown in this game. You just don't have the units needed in time.
On June 18 2010 21:00 EvilSky wrote: why didnt ruby just stay on 1 base instead of trying to defend the expo? if he just floated it back and rolled out with a big mass wouldnt he crush hyun who was pretty much allin ?
Expanding is fine.
It's just he went for early +1 and added raxes too late which you can't do on this map as shown in this game. You just don't have the units needed in time.
honestly i dont think standard 1 rax bio is viable on this map vs 12 pool lair.
Well I think Hyuk's builds were precisely prepared - game 1 if the plan was a ling all-in, he definitely wouldn't have pulled back after trying his first attack. He had just enough drones to constantly replenish lings and mutalisks when he attacked with his mutaling and the constant reinforcements allowed him to prevail.
game 2, simple 2 hatch mutaling, and his micro as well as his decisionmaking on where to attack was good enough to prevail.
He needs to get better at denying scouting, though.
I am damn impressed by Hyuk. His style is much more all-in than Kwanro ever was,a nd yet he manages to sneak win after win, stabilizing around top20 ELO. Pretty refreshing to see a Zerg player so aggressive against Terran instead of just trying to outmacro them and do awkward-feeling defiler rushes.
Mallard: it's just you. We're still only half-way through the first stage of the Ro36. After which we have the second stage (winner of first stage vs. Ro36 seed), before even the Ro16 begins.
On June 19 2010 05:24 pettter wrote: Mallard: it's just you. We're still only half-way through the first stage of the Ro36. After which we have the second stage (winner of first stage vs. Ro36 seed), before even the Ro16 begins.
these were the winner of 1st stage vs Ro36 seeds, but only for the 1st few groups. I still dont get why they're doing it this way instead of how they did it before (2 full groups per day instead of just half of 3 groups), but I like the old way much better.
In fact, I hate how they try to split up as many series as possible now in the MSL and OSL
Hmm Ruby seemed extremely displeased in both games. He lost to 3hatch mutaling, then lost to 2hatch mutaling. It's his own fault, sadly. He couldn't stop Hyuk's deadly muta micro.
Also, I watched the Sea games, and I must say, for Great to lose when he was on 9 bases (8 near the end) is pretty sad. The only thing Sea had to do all game was defend, and then kill one of great's expos. One. Unit compositions and rag-tag attack squads of Great were perplexing to me, but it got him map control, so it must've been a good choice. I don't know, is this a reflection of the extent of Great's skills? A showcase of Sea's skills? Or was this a display the absurdity of late game TvZ?
Hyuk can loose by a simple 2 gate zelot russ with the way he is playing. Protoss can dominate the sky real early with 5 corsairs that can kill any number of Scourge with 1 hit you don't even have to look the map attack button and point in the minimap becouse corsairs have to low cool down i don't suggest to Terran that move couse valkyries next shot after the first is 8 times bigger! Also a reaver has range 8 and a lurker range 7!
EPT![[image loading]](http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii154/Jaime_Lannister/kas1.jpg)
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Sea vs 
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free![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/7.jpg)
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