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On June 13 2010 17:32 McDonalds wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2010 17:15 POWEROUTAGE wrote:
The idea that Flash "chokes" is misguided. Flash is 3 in 5 in Finals, and that is a good record. He lost 1 in controversial circumstances and perhaps only the other can be considered a "choke". And it is because of the latter alone that Flash may be perceived as a choker by people, but that notion should be extinguished when Flash beat jaedong in such a dominating fashion, but is perpetuated by anti-fans([?] hesitant to use this term but I can't think of other labels) who find joy in playing Devil's Advocate to the general consensus that Flash is the best player right now. Seriously, of what significance is the 5 ace match losses? They only matter IF STX catches up(and they haven't). KT is practically confirmed a finals place either way, so this is hardly important at all. Not being a constant choker and being the best player isn't really equivalent to being dominant though, is it? I mean, if there is one thing we know about Starcraft, it's that the best player doesn't always win. And it's hard to say that someone is dominant when there is another guy people will point to and call the best. Show nested quote +On June 13 2010 17:23 cokencheese wrote:
I love how the arguments people are using against Flash bonjwa nowadays are exactly the same as the ones used against Jaedong a year ago. Are you saying that Jaedong is a bonjwa then? Because it's been a year and I don't think anyone is really saying that now. I suspect that it will be the same for Flash if he doesn't perform in the near future. Maybe they just need a new term for rivals who struggle against each other for a period of time without there being a clear winner.
I think we can worry about people performing in the MSL and OSLs.....
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On June 13 2010 17:31 DarkMatter_ wrote:Show nested quote +
Because Flash lost in the NATE MSL and lost to Effort in the OSL a very short period of time before the MSL finals (re: why jaedong was slight favourite).
You're all missing my point. I'm aware about why there was doubt. It was more of a rhetorical question. My point is that if he's an undisputed bonjwa, then it means that he's so fucking good that he is almost unanimously viewed as the clear favorite regardless of past results. That has never been the case with Flash against Jaedong. And now I don't feel that way about him even against the likes of Baby.
Well if that's your point, it's flawed. No one will be ever good enough such that he is the clear favourite in spite/regardless of form. Form directly causes the expectations on a player, if a player is in bad form why would you declare him a favourite over someone who's in a purple patch? Same thing for Flash vs. JD.
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On June 13 2010 17:32 McDonalds wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2010 17:15 POWEROUTAGE wrote:
The idea that Flash "chokes" is misguided. Flash is 3 in 5 in Finals, and that is a good record. He lost 1 in controversial circumstances and perhaps only the other can be considered a "choke". And it is because of the latter alone that Flash may be perceived as a choker by people, but that notion should be extinguished when Flash beat jaedong in such a dominating fashion, but is perpetuated by anti-fans([?] hesitant to use this term but I can't think of other labels) who find joy in playing Devil's Advocate to the general consensus that Flash is the best player right now. Seriously, of what significance is the 5 ace match losses? They only matter IF STX catches up(and they haven't). KT is practically confirmed a finals place either way, so this is hardly important at all. Not being a constant choker and being the best player isn't really equivalent to being dominant though, is it? I mean, if there is one thing we know about Starcraft, it's that the best player doesn't always win. And it's hard to say that someone is dominant when there is another guy people will point to and call the best. Show nested quote +On June 13 2010 17:23 cokencheese wrote:
I love how the arguments people are using against Flash bonjwa nowadays are exactly the same as the ones used against Jaedong a year ago. Are you saying that Jaedong is a bonjwa then? Because it's been a year and I don't think anyone is really saying that now. I suspect that it will be the same for Flash if he doesn't perform in the near future. Maybe they just need a new term for rivals who struggle against each other for a period of time without there being a clear winner.
The final era of Broodwar: Clash of Two Kings. 
Hmm, actually, that sounds kinda bad, but the general gist of it is there, lol.
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I didn't see the games any link ? I ussed to avoid seeing baby, nothing special about him anyaway.
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It's not that bloody complicated, Flash demolished/es everyone for a period of time, he'd even be put as favorite over Jaedong. During this period and even now sure you can call him the best, but undisputed? No, not in my opinion. If that holds true though, then Jaedong was bonjwa/the best for like two years.. Tell me one player that would be held as favorite over him in any boX series since he won his first OSL?
On June 13 2010 17:43 Plexa wrote: Bonjwa is a retrospective term. You look back on a player's career and can say with confidence that they were a bonjwa - and Flash is certainly walking that path at the moment (if he weren't, there wouldn't be this much controversy when he loses) I dont get this, this is pretty much exactly what has been the case with Jaedong for a Very long time. Same type of controversy when he was loosing games that were expected to win (which is like all of them).
Meh, I think Flash is amazing and he surely has what it takes to maybe be called "bonjwa" one day, but I dont think that will be the case aslong as both he and Jaedong is around together.
--
Wicked play by baby btw, this kid has surreal potential, grats Wemade
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On June 13 2010 17:43 Gtks wrote:
I didn't see the games any link ? I ussed to avoid seeing baby, nothing special about him anyaway.
He's #4 on the power rank right now. I wouldn't say that there is nothing special about him. There were a lot of good mine-related moments in the game today. It was pretty fun, in my opinion.
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On June 13 2010 17:43 Gtks wrote:
I didn't see the games any link ? I ussed to avoid seeing baby, nothing special about him anyaway.
http://www.wfbrood.com/xingji/scvod/xingji_50552.html
or you can try the GOMplayer.
VODs are usually up much later on nevake, usually a few days.
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On June 13 2010 17:43 Gtks wrote:
I didn't see the games any link ? I ussed to avoid seeing baby, nothing special about him anyaway.
yes please, watch the vod
I am looking forward to your analysis.
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10nx SuperRrc but I think is better to stop doing that, i gave to mutch already to the anti-Flash fun club.
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If it weren't for a few unfortunate ace losses leading up to this, no one would make a stink about this loss. Do you think any other T in the world would have beat Baby the way he was playing tonight? I don't. He played a great game, and he is a player with a lot of promise.
I honestly think were making this way too much about Flash and not enough about Baby.
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On June 13 2010 18:06 D3lta wrote:
If it weren't for a few unfortunate ace losses leading up to this, no one would make a stink about this loss. Do you think any other T in the world would have beat Baby the way he was playing tonight? I don't. He played a great game, and he is a player with a lot of promise.
I honestly think were making this way too much about Flash and not enough about Baby.
sKyHigh is 4-0 over BaBy, so yes I do think another Terran could've won tonight.
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On June 13 2010 18:26 J1.au wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2010 18:06 D3lta wrote:
If it weren't for a few unfortunate ace losses leading up to this, no one would make a stink about this loss. Do you think any other T in the world would have beat Baby the way he was playing tonight? I don't. He played a great game, and he is a player with a lot of promise.
I honestly think were making this way too much about Flash and not enough about Baby. sKyHigh is 4-0 over BaBy, so yes I do think another Terran could've won tonight.
Baby was 0-3 against Flash until now.
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OOOoooohh baby, what a good day for my FPL team!
On June 13 2010 19:02 newvsoldschool wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2010 18:26 J1.au wrote:On June 13 2010 18:06 D3lta wrote:
If it weren't for a few unfortunate ace losses leading up to this, no one would make a stink about this loss. Do you think any other T in the world would have beat Baby the way he was playing tonight? I don't. He played a great game, and he is a player with a lot of promise.
I honestly think were making this way too much about Flash and not enough about Baby. sKyHigh is 4-0 over BaBy, so yes I do think another Terran could've won tonight. Baby was 0-3 against Flash until now.
so?
just shows you that everyone can beat everyone
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On June 13 2010 17:51 SuperArc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2010 17:43 Gtks wrote:
I didn't see the games any link ? I ussed to avoid seeing baby, nothing special about him anyaway. yes please, watch the vod I am looking forward to your analysis.
Oh man, you too?! Gtks' posts are so awesome... A bit of hilarious insanity in each and every one of them... ^_^
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Oh, now that's an interesting result. Fuel to the "SLUMP!" fire.
But it's not a slump if you're losing occasional games to players like BaBy. Alright, to flash fans it is, but to any other reasonable person, this is a run of bad luck, but not an indication of some deep decline.
And also, BaBy is indisputably the #2 terran right now. He's getting some heat from fantasy, but he's playing so well right now.
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On June 13 2010 13:46 snowdrift86 wrote:yeah dude is proud as hell.
yeah, that was me, I love going to the games although this was my first time getting back there in about 4 months. Definitely was a fun match to watch
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Oh my god, I can't believe I didn't notice... Flash's hair is black again!
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This is so true. Bugs me alot.  .
So does KT losing ace matches consistently :/. And trading away ForGG the day before he wins
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EPT
