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[SWL] Final - KT Rolster vs MBCGame HERO - Page 127

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 125 126 127 128 129 130 Next
hacpee
Profile Joined November 2007
United States752 Posts
April 03 2010 22:33 GMT
#2521
If flash wins this OSL, he'll be bonjwa no problem.
Picture
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada75 Posts
April 03 2010 23:05 GMT
#2522
On April 04 2010 06:53 Chen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 03 2010 21:59 samachking wrote:
On April 03 2010 21:57 konadora wrote:
ok, KT vs SKT 09-10 PROLEAGUE FINALS!!!!!!!!


Nah, Jaedong Oz vs KTFlash will be a lot more epic.

how would that be epic? its basically all filler games until a bo1 between Jaedong and Flash. I'd rather see Flash try to all-kill Fantasy-Bisu-Best again

Stork/FBH/Jangbi would probably stand a better chance.
luckybeni2
Profile Joined October 2008
Germany1065 Posts
April 03 2010 23:25 GMT
#2523
On April 04 2010 07:33 hacpee wrote:
If flash wins this OSL, he'll be bonjwa no problem.

He won't because he is just not consistent enough. Yes he could be considered if all his leagues were won in a row but he had times were he just screwed up again and again. He has won one major league last year and one the year before. Winning three titles alone does not mean you are a bonjwa. He has not yet won even 2 leagues in a row
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
April 03 2010 23:34 GMT
#2524
Rofl, Flash is the most consistent gamer to ever play. His consistency is now just at another level all together.
Remember Violet.
Fumi
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
529 Posts
April 03 2010 23:39 GMT
#2525
On April 04 2010 08:25 luckybeni2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2010 07:33 hacpee wrote:
If flash wins this OSL, he'll be bonjwa no problem.

He won't because he is just not consistent enough. Yes he could be considered if all his leagues were won in a row but he had times were he just screwed up again and again. He has won one major league last year and one the year before. Winning three titles alone does not mean you are a bonjwa. He has not yet won even 2 leagues in a row

Bonjwa talk is pointless because of things like this. Some people think he's a bonjwa already, most are just waiting for him to get one or two more titles now that he's in his prime, but then there's people who just keep adding requirements. Like he needs to beat JD in a bo5, or beat JD in a bo5 while JD is in top form, or beat JD in a bo5 while JD is in top form and in a dominant fashion, or all that plus winning leagues in a row...
Flash, Stats, Reach, Tossgirl <> Boxer, Nestea, MC, Foxer fangirl | http://osu.ppy.sh/u/181432
Djabanete
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States2786 Posts
April 04 2010 00:21 GMT
#2526
I think we can all agree that the bonjwa argument is retarded and that Flash is really fucking good at starcraft.
May the BeSt man win.
d_so
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)3262 Posts
April 04 2010 00:34 GMT
#2527
On April 04 2010 09:21 Djabanete wrote:
I think we can all agree that the bonjwa argument is retarded and that Flash is really fucking good at starcraft.



the only thing retarded about the bonjwa argument are the self-made definitions of the term by unqualified fans
manner
Deleted User 30223
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
3104 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-04 01:52:43
April 04 2010 01:44 GMT
#2528
why are we having a bonjwa debate? i thought we even made it a banned word because of all the shit it brings. ._.

sigh: how bout this?

name me one person who consistently opposed savior in a somewhat convincing fashion before bisu stopped him.

+ Show Spoiler +
you could argue rA, but i disagree. and i love rA
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-04 01:57:35
April 04 2010 01:54 GMT
#2529
There's no definition or terms for bonjwa. Never will be. Winning tons of titles isn't a requirement -- Savior was the man when he only had 2 titles, and was still the man after he lost to Chojja and failed to get his third. Everyone knew it.

The thing is, back then there was less cynicism. There was hardly a period when there wasn't a single shining dominating force in starcraft. Call it magic or naivety but the reigns of the bonjwas were pretty back to back, so people didn't have some ingratiated notion of "accomplishments" needed to be one.

After Savior we went through basically a 3 year period of no single shining bonjwa. During this time Pro SC got a ton of foreign viewers thanks to GOM who don't understand what Boxer Nada Oov and Savior were (honestly I only came a little before them, so I'm not trying to imply some seniority thing here. the first time I watched an SC game seriously was Nal_rA vs Savior in those semis because of the hype <3). Their definition was shaped by the loose terms the older fans gave them and the odd "cycle" that Nada oov and Savior went through, but were all different (Nada went 2 Msls then MSL and OSL simultaneously, Oov was 3MSLs in a row followed by an OSL, Savior was 2 MSls, 1 MSL silver, 1 MSL, then One OSL and one MSL silver at the same time, all different runs with the only unifying factor being "3MSLs and 1 OSL," that new fans could grasp onto.)

So now the majority of viewers don't have a real concept of what Savior or Oov or Nada were -- hell I barely do with Savior, so they set arbitrary and pointless hoops a player has to jump through so there's some kind of cold hard logical definition of what a bonjwa is, when there isn't.

Bonjwas are all about the feeling they instill in their viewers, and there's tons of them. That guy you hate because he never loses and beats your favorite players constantly? Probably a bonjwa. That guy who wins so much you wonder if starcraft has been figured out? Probably a bonjwa. That guy who you love watching entirely because you just know the way he plays is so much better than everyone? Well, to you, he just might be a bonjwa.

Number of titles isn't relevant -- the titles typically come as a side effect but it doesn't matter, just like it didn't when savior lost to chojja. It's just something that's there. If you don't get a feeling from Flash that he's just... something else, something more than his competition, then you get it. You don't even have to call it bonjwa but that's the general idea. If Flash doesn't give you that feeling then he isn't. No amount of arbitrary goals and cynical finger wagging contradict any of it, and if you're busy setting up milestones Flash, or even Jaedong or Bisu have to pass, then you're missing the point. There's no cold hard factual way for any of them to be a bonjwa.
Remember Violet.
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13536 Posts
April 04 2010 02:08 GMT
#2530
God damn Flash is good...
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
d_so
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)3262 Posts
April 04 2010 02:31 GMT
#2531
On April 04 2010 10:54 TwoToneTerran wrote:
There's no definition or terms for bonjwa. Never will be. Winning tons of titles isn't a requirement -- Savior was the man when he only had 2 titles, and was still the man after he lost to Chojja and failed to get his third. Everyone knew it.

The thing is, back then there was less cynicism. There was hardly a period when there wasn't a single shining dominating force in starcraft. Call it magic or naivety but the reigns of the bonjwas were pretty back to back, so people didn't have some ingratiated notion of "accomplishments" needed to be one.

After Savior we went through basically a 3 year period of no single shining bonjwa. During this time Pro SC got a ton of foreign viewers thanks to GOM who don't understand what Boxer Nada Oov and Savior were (honestly I only came a little before them, so I'm not trying to imply some seniority thing here. the first time I watched an SC game seriously was Nal_rA vs Savior in those semis because of the hype <3). Their definition was shaped by the loose terms the older fans gave them and the odd "cycle" that Nada oov and Savior went through, but were all different (Nada went 2 Msls then MSL and OSL simultaneously, Oov was 3MSLs in a row followed by an OSL, Savior was 2 MSls, 1 MSL silver, 1 MSL, then One OSL and one MSL silver at the same time, all different runs with the only unifying factor being "3MSLs and 1 OSL," that new fans could grasp onto.)

So now the majority of viewers don't have a real concept of what Savior or Oov or Nada were -- hell I barely do with Savior, so they set arbitrary and pointless hoops a player has to jump through so there's some kind of cold hard logical definition of what a bonjwa is, when there isn't.

Bonjwas are all about the feeling they instill in their viewers, and there's tons of them. That guy you hate because he never loses and beats your favorite players constantly? Probably a bonjwa. That guy who wins so much you wonder if starcraft has been figured out? Probably a bonjwa. That guy who you love watching entirely because you just know the way he plays is so much better than everyone? Well, to you, he just might be a bonjwa.

Number of titles isn't relevant -- the titles typically come as a side effect but it doesn't matter, just like it didn't when savior lost to chojja. It's just something that's there. If you don't get a feeling from Flash that he's just... something else, something more than his competition, then you get it. You don't even have to call it bonjwa but that's the general idea. If Flash doesn't give you that feeling then he isn't. No amount of arbitrary goals and cynical finger wagging contradict any of it, and if you're busy setting up milestones Flash, or even Jaedong or Bisu have to pass, then you're missing the point. There's no cold hard factual way for any of them to be a bonjwa.


i never do this but +1
manner
De4ngus
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6533 Posts
April 04 2010 02:53 GMT
#2532
Noooo MBC DDD:

At least Flash makes liquibetting easy lol.
GANDHISAUCE
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
April 04 2010 03:03 GMT
#2533
That's it! Flash on my FPL next round with Stork go go and go! Sea actually was ahead at some point in the game versus Flash but he made too much damn Turrets and kept all his tanks inside of his base I mean WTF MAN! That's at least 10 Turrets! You can probably made some more factories or units and the amount of mining time the SCVs wasted! And PLUS he kept his units in his base instead of using them against Flash was a HUGE mistake. But I guess if you are playing against Flash, you would want to be as safe as possible.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
mmdmmd
Profile Joined June 2007
722 Posts
April 04 2010 03:37 GMT
#2534
Jaehoon sent out his 2 carriers early because he thought Flash is pushing him after he scanned his carrier build. But in real fact Flash just did a push at a very critical moment without knowing it before hand.

A bit of luck I guess.
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-04 03:50:30
April 04 2010 03:49 GMT
#2535
On April 04 2010 12:37 mmdmmd wrote:
Jaehoon sent out his 2 carriers early because he thought Flash is pushing him after he scanned his carrier build. But in real fact Flash just did a push at a very critical moment without knowing it before hand.

A bit of luck I guess.


Flash pushed because Jaehoon had a tiny ass army and didn't even try to push out onto the map. When protoss isn't probing you with dragoons then you know he's rushing carriers or mass expanding, either of which means you push hard and, just incase of carriers, research goliath range the way Flash did when he was pushing (notice how the observer was focused on Flash's machine shop while he was pushing).

Jaehoon could've waited for 2 more carriers to pop but he might've lost his nexus and, frankly, you can't afford to lose mining time when you carrier rush off 2 1/2 bases.

Flash was lucky because they didn't spawn cross positions. If so his push would've been late and Jaehoon definitely would've had four carriers and more goons waiting to crush Flash's goliathless army.
Remember Violet.
mmdmmd
Profile Joined June 2007
722 Posts
April 04 2010 03:52 GMT
#2536
On April 04 2010 12:49 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2010 12:37 mmdmmd wrote:
Jaehoon sent out his 2 carriers early because he thought Flash is pushing him after he scanned his carrier build. But in real fact Flash just did a push at a very critical moment without knowing it before hand.

A bit of luck I guess.


Flash pushed because Jaehoon had a tiny ass army and didn't even try to push out onto the map. When protoss isn't probing you with dragoons then you know he's rushing carriers or mass expanding, either of which means you push hard and, just incase of carriers, research goliath range the way Flash did when he was pushing (notice how the observer was focused on Flash's machine shop while he was pushing).

Jaehoon could've waited for 2 more carriers to pop but he might've lost his nexus and, frankly, you can't afford to lose mining time when you carrier rush off 2 1/2 bases.

Flash was lucky because they didn't spawn cross positions. If so his push would've been late and Jaehoon definitely would've had four carriers and more goons waiting to crush Flash's goliathless army.


I don't think flash expected carriers at all. the ob view is after the carriers shown themselves.
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
April 04 2010 03:54 GMT
#2537
Flash knew something was up, that's why he pushed. Carriers are one of the more likely ones when it's midgame and protoss hasn't even tried to secure anything outside of their own base, or harass, or basically do anything.
Remember Violet.
J1.au
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Australia3596 Posts
April 04 2010 04:45 GMT
#2538
It's a good thing that bonjwas aren't decided by the foreign community. If they were Savior would still be one.
MrHoon *
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
10183 Posts
April 04 2010 05:09 GMT
#2539
WOOO GOLD MEDAL
dats racist
DeathByMonkeys
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States742 Posts
April 04 2010 07:04 GMT
#2540
I just wanna say that whatever Flash did to come back from losing to Sea was utterly amazing.
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