On March 07 2010 16:46 koreasilver wrote:
You can't say stupid shit like "ZvZ is bullshit" when a big reason as to why Jaedong has been losing ZvZ so much is because he's become too predictable with his 12pool antics.

um..I thought Jaedong mixed in other builds as well?

PiePie

United States248 Posts

March 07 2010 17:58 GMT

#502

On March 07 2010 18:28 Monokeros wrote:

Show nested quote +

I saw a hatchery outside of his base thats 12 hatch to me.

He went 12 pool. Then made a hatch. Thats not a 12 hatch, thats called a 12 pool. 12 hatch is hatch at 12 before pool. Just because theres a hatch outside your base doesn't mean you 12 hatched lol

On_Slaught

United States12190 Posts

March 07 2010 18:00 GMT

#503

On March 07 2010 16:49 fallingdream wrote:
"I'm tired of JD is really good but loses all of his zvz's."

Jaedong is 14-7 in his last ZvTs, with multiple losses to Flash, one loss to Sea and one bad loss to Darkelf but over this time beating down every good terran in the world, including Flash a few times.

Jaedong is 22-4 in his last ZvPs, with all four losses to Stork.

Jaedong ZvZ is very fucked up now clearly. He is still at 74%, and while he loses more now, he is still 13-7 in his last 20 games. Of course the standards are much higher for someone like Jaedong so this is hard to accept.

Even with worse than his normal greatness in ZvZ (14-7 in ZvT is amazing in this day and age), jaedong constently shows that come starleague time he steps up and makes it far into the tournament, winning at least one title each of the last 3 seasons.

Also, even with some hick-ups in ZvZ (still well above 50% in recent games), he is significantly more consistent among matchups than any other zerg in the world atm and almost always against greater competition.

On top of all of that, in the interview that Modesty gave for this very night of matches he states plainly that "zvz is 50:50, anyone can win ZvZ if they focus."

Overall? Jaedong is still by far the best zerg in the world, and we have no reason to think that come starleague time that he won't roflstomp his way to the ro8/4 before he runs into any players who can challenge him.

snowdrift

France2061 Posts

March 07 2010 18:01 GMT

#504

On March 08 2010 01:13 PangO wrote:
Oz needs JD to play better

Jaedong just beat Kal, one of the strongest Protoss, ez pz. The omg slump! talk is over the top. It's just that JvZ is no more, and with every mid-tier Zerg in this Winners League seemingly fully devoted to ZvZ and sent out to snipe top Zergs, any Z can pretty much beat any other Z at the moment, aside from Calm.

As other people have said, JD's OZ buffer is failing him. They only have two decent players, Hiya and Killer, while the rest of the team is garbage. Very few teams have so little depth. And it's clear that none of the other players are going to improve at this point -- only Killer delivered on his potential and managed to turn into a decent player. ggaemo, PerfectMan? Allow me to lulz.

Anyway, it's obvious that regardless of what he says about supporting the team, Jaedong is far more motivated by the starleagues. And can we fault him for that, with the team he's on?

RamenStyle

United States1929 Posts

March 07 2010 19:13 GMT

#505

Omg Jaeddong....

Viruuus

Germany451 Posts

March 07 2010 22:10 GMT

#506

omg jaedong

SuperArc

Austria7781 Posts

March 07 2010 22:21 GMT

#507

This is not an excuse, but imo 12pool expand is the worst build you can go in ZvZ.

I'd rather see a 12hatch loss than 12pool expand to overpool speed

Ideas

United States8182 Posts

March 07 2010 22:34 GMT

#508

On March 08 2010 07:21 SuperArc wrote:
This is not an excuse, but imo 12pool expand is the worst build you can go in ZvZ.

I'd rather see a 12hatch loss than 12pool expand to overpool speed

hey 12pool expand is my favorite ZvZ build

koreasilver

9109 Posts

March 07 2010 22:38 GMT

#509

On March 08 2010 02:52 AzureEye wrote:

Show nested quote +

um..I thought Jaedong mixed in other builds as well?

He's been going 12pool expo in about 80%+ of his ZvZs in the last like six months. Same with Effort. It's no big surprise that they've been losing a lot more ZvZs than before when they were on the top of the foodchain in the matchup. Just in the recent OSL games Effort started with a build order loss in every single fucking game with 12pool vs 12hatch. It's only that Effort played just much better that he was able to win 2-1, but it's a real testament to how goddamned predictable they are with their builds in ZvZ nowadays.

DreaM)XeRO

Korea (South)4667 Posts

March 09 2010 19:55 GMT

#510

ah. so.. JvZ is officially over?

i want to see the ZvZ master Jaedong in action

it seems after the PL finals his ZvZ has slipped > <

[X]Ken_D

United States4653 Posts

March 16 2010 20:39 GMT

#511

Not being a zvz player, I was under the impression that 12 pool beat 9 pool due to better econ and not too late zerglings.

If 9 pool speed beats 12 pool hatch, then what does 12 pool hatch beat?