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[MSL] Nate MSL Grand Finals - Flash vs Jaedong - Page 189

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
Post a Reply
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PrideNeverDies
Profile Joined July 2009
Kazakhstan74 Posts
January 23 2010 12:14 GMT
#3761
the difference is jaedong is mentally much stronger than flash. flash relies on cheese to beat better players.
Jyvblamo
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada13788 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-23 12:16:53
January 23 2010 12:14 GMT
#3762
Whoops, quoted wrong stuff.
IcedTea
Profile Joined June 2008
Canada13 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-23 12:14:46
January 23 2010 12:14 GMT
#3763
On January 23 2010 21:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
OBVIOUSLY FLASH SUCKS FOR NOT PLAYING PERFECT STARCRAFT AFTER HAVING A WIN HANDED OVER TO HIS OPPONENT AND HAVING HIS TEAM AND COACH FIGHT WITH REFS FOR AN HOUR AND HAVING HIS DAD ESCORTED AWAY BY SECURITY

if only flash was good enough to wipe his mind clear of all that like the bonjwa jaedong then maybe he would deserve a starleague title but lol he sucks

If you're such a big Flash fan you should probably take a page out of his book and chill the **** out.
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
January 23 2010 12:14 GMT
#3764
On January 23 2010 21:12 danl9rm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2010 21:00 Qwertify wrote:
On January 23 2010 20:52 KwarK wrote:
On January 23 2010 20:48 Whiplash wrote:
Everyone was robbed by that.

JD's win was completely undermined, despite some fantastic play, particularly in game 3. Flash's heart was completely undermined, his play in game 4 was just depressing.

One thing to note though is mental strength. That's a situation in which mental strength is critical. JD is the man who comes back from anything at full strength. Every time people have said "this'll be the start of the end of the JD era" he turns up a week later stronger than ever. In a situation like this that ability to just detatch from the reality and play your top game is huge. JD is the better player in that regard.



Jaedong thumbed down Odd-eye because he knows that Flash and Terrans in general have an advantage against Zerg. I, along with many experts, would have expected Flash to have taken this game. However, Jaedong somehow was able to save his 3rd. But then, Flash came along with 50 marines and took it down, along with a good number of lings and ultras. Then Flash swung around to take out another expo. I thought it was over for JD. Then JD, out of no where, flanks around with a bunch of cows and lings, and wipes up Flash's army before he can take out the base. JD gets his 3rd back up and takes a fifth @ 7. Flash puts pressure on this but, with a defiler, literally at 5 or so HP casts a dark swarm and then another, and pushes Flash back. With the nydus there and defilers, and with Flash's low Vessel count, Jaedong had the advantage, with the addition of having map control. It was true that Flash could have come back. It was unlikely however given that JD had map control.

The person really robbed here was Jaedong. To take a win, on heavily favored Terran map, against someone so deadly against Zerg as Flash, that would have been JD's greatest accomplishment, or one of his greatest. The fact that JD couldn't get Flash to type gg - that is just extremely dis-satisfactory.


This is what I think we'll all hear tomorrow from anyone brave enough to comment on the whole.. situation.. Day[9], Artosis, etc?


day[9] already spoke out against kespa giving the game to jaedong
o[twist]
Profile Joined May 2008
United States4903 Posts
January 23 2010 12:14 GMT
#3765
On January 23 2010 21:12 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2010 21:10 o[twist] wrote:
On January 23 2010 21:09 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On January 23 2010 20:50 Holgerius wrote:
JD>>>>>>>>>>>Flash, that is quite obvious from this series. I guess Flash has been decent the last couple of months, but he is totally outclassed in every single way by JD.


Except in that second game where Flash dominated Jaedong from start to finish. But since Jaedong won against a mentally raped Flash after being given a free win by KESPA he's probably bonjwa


i and most others disagree that flash dominated jaedong second game. jaedong went guards which was silly. gg

I fail to see how Jaedong's win in set 1 was any more convincing than Flash's win in set 2. Both happened because the other player made a silly mistake in a crucial moment (Jaedong wasting his guardians, and Flash putting up an atrocious muta defense).


notice my post doesn't even mention the first game so why are you even talking about it, my friend
snapcrackle
Profile Joined December 2008
United States568 Posts
January 23 2010 12:14 GMT
#3766
On January 23 2010 21:09 Scaramanga wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2010 21:06 Gorgy wrote:
Game 1: Flash got owned
Game 2: Scourges died on the way to guards (not intentionally by flash).
Game 3: 3 base + army vs 0.5 base + 5 medics. => JD won
Game 4: After 1 hour of dad rage flash lost his nerve, he's 17 ffs. JD's been under pressure too many times to be unsettled by some bickering or space station shit, he just rolled the baby-flash.

Are you joking? Game 2 flash did intentionally stop the scourge, its been shown on a fpv he dose this on purpose, game 3 Flash was on 2 base vs 2 base, IT WAS EVEN (both players mains mined out, jd wasnt mining from his 4th), Game 4 flash just gave up

NO no no no no..

JD was mining at 1 o clock for a little bit of time. Enough so that his main and nat were more saturated than flash's. JD's 4th was well secured with at LEAST 2 sunkens. HIs third was well developed while Flash had just finished his third. Sure JD's 4th was in a questionable situation... but econ wise and unit wise JD was well ahead to defend his third. Watch the VOD when it comes out. Flash's force was no where near strong as when he first tried to get the 7 o clock yet JD's defense was stronger (considering the inclusion of a full tech and 2 sunkens).

So imo 3 minutes to 5 minutes later JD would have 3 bases against flash's 1 base (his third). Speculation here so please don't try to nitpick this last bit here.
Fionn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States23455 Posts
January 23 2010 12:14 GMT
#3767
Meh, if you remember, Jaedong also was not at the top of his game while his parents were arguing about how he maybe should quit progaming. You have to remember that these two are just kids still. Flash is 17, and he probably had to watch his father curse at referees and have his friends walk out of the arena due to the blackout.

I don't think a lot of 17-year-olds could keep their cool after that.
Writerhttps://twitter.com/FionnOnFire
verteqz
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada89 Posts
January 23 2010 12:14 GMT
#3768
On January 23 2010 21:08 TheBB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2010 21:05 verteqz wrote:
On January 23 2010 20:55 TheBB wrote:
On January 23 2010 20:36 Ace wrote:
Jaedong still deserves his title ^_^

This.

Out of the three finished games, Jaedong won two, and had a significant advantage in the third set when it was aborted. Clearly he deserves to win. Yes, it was controversial, but what are you going to do? Replaying the Odd-Eye game wouldn't be fair to Jaedong, his likely winning preparation blown.

Props to Flash for taking it like a man, unlike his father, and props to Jaedong for resisting any urge to throw game four. Hopefully we will see another MSL, but it's not looking good.

Now let's just look forward to Winner's League.


Do you seriously think that the fourth game would have panned out as it did if the power outage didn't happen? Flash was not playing like Flash.

You're right, but who's to blame for that? Only Flash.


Kespa's decision.
// verteqz.com
Saracen
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5139 Posts
January 23 2010 12:14 GMT
#3769
On January 23 2010 21:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
OBVIOUSLY FLASH SUCKS FOR NOT PLAYING PERFECT STARCRAFT AFTER HAVING A WIN HANDED OVER TO HIS OPPONENT AND HAVING HIS TEAM AND COACH FIGHT WITH REFS FOR AN HOUR AND HAVING HIS DAD ESCORTED AWAY BY SECURITY

if only flash was good enough to wipe his mind clear of all that like the bonjwa jaedong then maybe he would deserve a starleague title but lol he sucks

Chill man. Regardless of the MBCGame bullshit, Jaedong was the better player today. I don't feel he deserves the title because he didn't actually "win" three games, but he still played better than Flash. And no one's saying that Flash sucks. I'm sorry that your favorite player's not bonjwa.
WinkieDuck
Profile Joined November 2009
United States2 Posts
January 23 2010 12:14 GMT
#3770
a shield battery would have helped save game 3, but neither were protoss
pato pato pato
machinus
Profile Joined January 2010
United States290 Posts
January 23 2010 12:15 GMT
#3771
Flash, Jaedong, and all the fans were robbed in this stupid, bullshit event.

I love Starcraft and have never been this disappointed.
alexpnd
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada1857 Posts
January 23 2010 12:15 GMT
#3772
On January 23 2010 21:12 d_so wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2010 21:09 o[twist] wrote:
On January 23 2010 21:07 d_so wrote:
i also think kwark's mention of jd's mental fortitude deserves special attention. yeah flash got fucked over but how u react to it i your decision... im a huge flash fan but his game 4 play was easily his worst in 2010 and maybe the worst since september 2009. u can't lay a turd when ur facing adversity


frankly i think it's bullshit. you've probably never been in a situation remotely comparable to flash's and while i don't doubt that you can imagine or read about or figure out scientifically how he was feeling you obviously haven't done so.

if i were flash i would have been absolutely crushed and might've lifted all my buildings on a whim or built supply depots saying fuck you kespa fuck you mbc.


im not sure why you're making it personal, but yeah you're right, i've never been in an msl where a power outage abruptly cut my game and my dad got mad in front of a thousand people in front of my biggest rival. and thank you for sharing your possible reaction to the matter.

i'm not trying to judge. im just saying that at the end of the day, all the excuses don't matter: how you react is your choice, no matter how hard it may be. you are never forced into reacting a certain way: you might be pushed to the point of near-insurmountable emotions, but it's never insurmountable


Dude its called being a human being. He's a SC gamer not a fucken Secret Service professional.
www.brainyweb.ca //web stuff!
StRyKeR
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States1739 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-23 12:15:44
January 23 2010 12:15 GMT
#3773
A lot of people are missing the fact that in game 3, Jaedong had 3 o'clock.

Jaedong: 2 mineral bases, 3 gas
Flash: 1 mineral base, no gas

Jaedong definitely had an advantage. Of course, the ideal situation would have been no outage, but what can you do -- any decision short of reproducing the game up to that point and playing on using a saved game would have been unfair.
Ars longa, vita brevis, principia aeturna.
rredtooth
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
5459 Posts
January 23 2010 12:15 GMT
#3774
On January 23 2010 21:14 PrideNeverDies wrote:
the difference is jaedong is mentally much stronger than flash. flash relies on cheese to beat better players.
have you watched starcraft before?
[formerly sponsored by the artist formerly known as Gene]
Malinor
Profile Joined November 2008
Germany4721 Posts
January 23 2010 12:15 GMT
#3775
On January 23 2010 21:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
OBVIOUSLY FLASH SUCKS FOR NOT PLAYING PERFECT STARCRAFT AFTER HAVING A WIN HANDED OVER TO HIS OPPONENT AND HAVING HIS TEAM AND COACH FIGHT WITH REFS FOR AN HOUR AND HAVING HIS DAD ESCORTED AWAY BY SECURITY

if only flash was good enough to wipe his mind clear of all that like the bonjwa jaedong then maybe he would deserve a starleague title but lol he sucks


You can do so much better than that. Stop being butthurt, noone is happy here.
"Withstand. Suffer. Live as you must now live. There will, one day, be answer to this." ||| "A life, Jimmy, you know what that is? It's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come."
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
January 23 2010 12:15 GMT
#3776
On January 23 2010 21:14 PrideNeverDies wrote:
the difference is jaedong is mentally much stronger than flash. flash relies on cheese to beat better players.

wow... biggest flame bait ever.
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
d_so
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)3262 Posts
January 23 2010 12:15 GMT
#3777
On January 23 2010 21:14 WinkieDuck wrote:
a shield battery would have helped save game 3, but neither were protoss


haha i chuckled
manner
gbglass
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden29 Posts
January 23 2010 12:15 GMT
#3778
I can't beleive they don't use UPS for all the computer hardware.
God hates Sweden
vitruvia
Profile Joined June 2009
Canada235 Posts
January 23 2010 12:16 GMT
#3779
so... um... Let's move on and just enjoy the upcoming TSL...?
what quote?
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
January 23 2010 12:16 GMT
#3780
On January 23 2010 21:14 o[twist] wrote:
notice my post doesn't even mention the first game so why are you even talking about it, my friend

I suppose my post isn't directed strictly at you, but plenty of people are calling game 1 convincing dominance and game 2 a narrow win, when they were both lost in the same fashion--one just happened to have the game-losing moment earlier in the game.
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