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[MSL] Nate MSL Grand Finals - Flash vs Jaedong - Page 190

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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EvilTeletubby
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
Baltimore, USA22254 Posts
January 23 2010 12:17 GMT
#3781
Ban hammer will be falling soon if you guys don't lay off the personal insults.
Moderatorhttp://carbonleaf.yuku.com/topic/408/t/So-I-proposed-at-a-Carbon-Leaf-concert.html ***** RIP Geoff
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
January 23 2010 12:17 GMT
#3782
No, I think Jaedong deserved to win. I also think Jaedong would have won anyway the way the games were going. I'm not shitting on Jaedong here.

But MBC and KESPA could not have made bigger fools out of themselves. The entire event was an utter embarrassment to e-sports and a middle finger to every fan of StarCraft. Flash and Jaedong fans alike should be upset about just about everything that occurred tonight: from the MSL finals not being live, to the technical difficulties, to the drama over Jaedong's free win, to the entire spectacle.

This wasn't a StarLeague final, this was a circus and a waste of time for fans of Flash, Jaedong, and mostly the players themselves.
RIP Aaliyah
boredcouch
Profile Joined May 2008
United States110 Posts
January 23 2010 12:17 GMT
#3783
Just like it basketball, "THE BALL NEVER LIES".

"Bad" calls happen all the time but the best can persevere through them.

In this case, once the vods come out we will see that Jaedong was clearly ahead in game 3.
starcraft is the greatest game ever
danl9rm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States3111 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-23 12:18:53
January 23 2010 12:17 GMT
#3784
On January 23 2010 21:14 jalstar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2010 21:12 danl9rm wrote:
On January 23 2010 21:00 Qwertify wrote:
On January 23 2010 20:52 KwarK wrote:
On January 23 2010 20:48 Whiplash wrote:
Everyone was robbed by that.

JD's win was completely undermined, despite some fantastic play, particularly in game 3. Flash's heart was completely undermined, his play in game 4 was just depressing.

One thing to note though is mental strength. That's a situation in which mental strength is critical. JD is the man who comes back from anything at full strength. Every time people have said "this'll be the start of the end of the JD era" he turns up a week later stronger than ever. In a situation like this that ability to just detatch from the reality and play your top game is huge. JD is the better player in that regard.



Jaedong thumbed down Odd-eye because he knows that Flash and Terrans in general have an advantage against Zerg. I, along with many experts, would have expected Flash to have taken this game. However, Jaedong somehow was able to save his 3rd. But then, Flash came along with 50 marines and took it down, along with a good number of lings and ultras. Then Flash swung around to take out another expo. I thought it was over for JD. Then JD, out of no where, flanks around with a bunch of cows and lings, and wipes up Flash's army before he can take out the base. JD gets his 3rd back up and takes a fifth @ 7. Flash puts pressure on this but, with a defiler, literally at 5 or so HP casts a dark swarm and then another, and pushes Flash back. With the nydus there and defilers, and with Flash's low Vessel count, Jaedong had the advantage, with the addition of having map control. It was true that Flash could have come back. It was unlikely however given that JD had map control.

The person really robbed here was Jaedong. To take a win, on heavily favored Terran map, against someone so deadly against Zerg as Flash, that would have been JD's greatest accomplishment, or one of his greatest. The fact that JD couldn't get Flash to type gg - that is just extremely dis-satisfactory.


This is what I think we'll all hear tomorrow from anyone brave enough to comment on the whole.. situation.. Day[9], Artosis, etc?


day[9] already spoke out against kespa giving the game to jaedong


The most true statement, in my mind, is "It was true that Flash could have come back. It was unlikely..."

edit: I'm not saying they should, or should not have, given the game to Jaedong. No one won this series.
"Science has so well established that the preborn baby in the womb is a living human being that most pro-choice activists have conceded the point. ..since the abortion proponents have lost the science argument, they are now advocating an existential one."
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
January 23 2010 12:17 GMT
#3785
On January 23 2010 20:55 SuperArc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2010 20:50 Holgerius wrote:
JD>>>>>>>>>>>Flash, that is quite obvious from this series. I guess Flash has been decent the last couple of months, but he is totally outclassed in every single way by JD.


wow, massive respect for you!

It should be noted that I do not entirely believe in what I wrote. The dominance and level of play Flash has shown during this entire season has been unmatched in SC history; clear No 1 in PL, clear No 1 in OSL and reaching the MSL final at the same time. And then, after practising for a week until his fingers bled, the epic showdown with JD gets completely fucked up by a power outage and it's consequenses (free win for JD, his dad was thrown out and his team walked out of the studio, what a mental rape that whole thing must've been!). I think it would be very unfair to say that JD>>>Flash because of this series. It did however show that JD can play on Flash's level, and 5 Starleague wins is hella impressive. It's so sad that they're both playing in the same era, because they are both bonjwa material.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
J1.au
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Australia3596 Posts
January 23 2010 12:17 GMT
#3786
It's time for the TSL to move to Korea! I can see a vacancy opening.
PhilGood2DaY
Profile Joined September 2005
Germany7424 Posts
January 23 2010 12:18 GMT
#3787
On January 23 2010 21:14 PrideNeverDies wrote:
the difference is jaedong is mentally much stronger than flash. flash relies on cheese to beat better players.




oh u troll :D
hatred outlives the hateful
Fionn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States23455 Posts
January 23 2010 12:18 GMT
#3788
I don't see why people are getting at why Jaedong should have been put off his game during the hour break.

During that hour, I'm pretty sure his coach and teammates were telling him how great he played and how he only needed one win to get the title. They even showed his coach patting him on the back and giving encouragement.

Flash was the one who was under all the stress, controversy, and family problems.

Jaedong was just chilling.
Writerhttps://twitter.com/FionnOnFire
iFU.pauline
Profile Joined September 2009
France1572 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-23 12:20:08
January 23 2010 12:18 GMT
#3789
Flash through the fourth game away with this obvious failed rush. MBC descision is clearly wrong, even if it's not Jaedong's fault to be ahead in the third game.

Nada or Boxer would have had more balls. I blame a bit Flash to give up so easily like that.
No coward soul is mine, No trembler in the world's storm-troubled sphere, I see Heaven's glories shine, And Faith shines equal arming me from Fear
FireGuyX
Profile Joined February 2009
United States1712 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-23 12:19:11
January 23 2010 12:18 GMT
#3790
Flash tried bunk rushing in G4 against Jaedong. You can tell Flash was really pissed that Jaedong was automatically given a win. Jaedong countered really well in G4 and won legitimately. None the less all the fiasco that went on G3 just ****ed everything up, that game should of been replayed. I get this feeling that MBC was purposely f***king the fans and the players over.
Flash, ForGG, and Movie fan.
gravity
Profile Joined March 2004
Australia1847 Posts
January 23 2010 12:18 GMT
#3791
The most fair way to decide an outage game, if a regame is impossible, would be to calculate the probability of each player winning (somehow - maybe base it on statistics from past matches, or better yet, live gambling odds if available) and pick randomly according to those odds (so if Flash had a 20% chance of winning, you would choose a random number from 1 to 100 and give Flash the win if you got 20 or less, otherwise give the win to Jaedong).
Letmelose
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Korea (South)3227 Posts
January 23 2010 12:18 GMT
#3792
On January 23 2010 21:08 MaGic~PhiL wrote:
Kwark:

Was Flash ahead when he killed of jeadongs hatchery without really losing that much ??

He wasnt ahead after a few minutes until the crash was he ?

So how can u be so sure that jd wouldnt have lost his advantage as well !?


Let it go. The series was fucked over the moment the power shut down. Nobody KNOWS FOR SURE what would have happened had the series gone on normally. Stop trying to argue the obvious. OF COURSE THE GAME WAS STILL NOT OVER.

So what's fair to you then? Rematch? Forcing Jaedong to play again after revealing one of the riskiest starting BO in the match-up in his least favourite map in the map pool, when he was most likely (yes, any person with half a brain would agree to this) to take the game?

The series was fucked over. There was no right decision to be made. You don't want a fair decision (since you keep screaming for a rematch when you know that isn't going to save the dynamic of what would have been), you just want Jaedong to be put in an impossible situation where he already used his goods on a fucking joke of a map and for Flash to get another chance for victory. You should just stop wasting everyone's time by simply imagining they DID replay game 3 and Flash won, and went on to stomp all over a disgruntled Jaedong in game 4. That's what you really want, isn't it?
TL+ Member
zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15329 Posts
January 23 2010 12:18 GMT
#3793
On January 23 2010 21:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2010 21:11 SuperArc wrote:
On January 23 2010 21:09 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On January 23 2010 20:50 Holgerius wrote:
JD>>>>>>>>>>>Flash, that is quite obvious from this series. I guess Flash has been decent the last couple of months, but he is totally outclassed in every single way by JD.


Except in that second game where Flash dominated Jaedong from start to finish. But since Jaedong won against a mentally raped Flash after being given a free win by KESPA he's probably bonjwa


DOMINATED FROM START TO FINISH? rofl

Are you a newb to Starcraft or what? Jaedong had the much better opening, had five bases to Flash's two.

Flash owned JD's guardians the dropship play was genius.

But Flash has NEVER been the one in control the WHOLE series.


you're right, jaedong played so well flash just won by luck he played like shit in game 2 jaedong is bonjwa 4ever

Stop it. No need to pick fights no matter how much of a Flash fan you are.
ModeratorI know Teamliquid is known as a massive building
IcedTea
Profile Joined June 2008
Canada13 Posts
January 23 2010 12:19 GMT
#3794
On January 23 2010 21:17 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
This wasn't a StarLeague final, this was a circus and a waste of time for fans of Flash, Jaedong, and mostly the players themselves.

Well said.
Fx_
Profile Joined April 2008
503 Posts
January 23 2010 12:19 GMT
#3795
On January 23 2010 21:07 StorrZerg wrote:
power outage vs kespa ggogo bo9 rvr

+99999999999999
Power is your Intelligence
deL
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Australia5540 Posts
January 23 2010 12:19 GMT
#3796
I feel dirty and the dirt's not coming off
Gaming videos for fun ~ http://www.youtube.com/user/WijLopenLos
Boundz(DarKo)
Profile Joined March 2009
5311 Posts
January 23 2010 12:19 GMT
#3797
Can't wait for the upcoming news article about how jaedong dismantled flash's raxcc 3-1. Will be a good read.
unionbank
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Australia666 Posts
January 23 2010 12:19 GMT
#3798
Heres the ultimatum guys:
WHETHER JAEDONG WON OR NOT IT DOESNT MATTER
because LOSING LIKE THAT
puts IMMENSE STRESS and fucks up Flash's ability to mentally stay stable and strong
WHAT KIND of player would remain positive after that shiraz happens, NOONE
so saying JAEDONG has stronger MENTALITY seems way too bias and unjust
and IF Flash lost legitimately he may have played a better game with a better mentality

so all you jaedong fan girls stfu and sit down and eat your tiny teddies

HAVE A WONDERFUL DAY
김정우.... 이겼다!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Vasoline73
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States7801 Posts
January 23 2010 12:19 GMT
#3799
Thanks DoctorHelvica for making me laugh a little bit in this thread, I feel so sick. The series tension was going so well into game 3. If Flash just lost game 3 legit and then lost game 4 with a pathetic 8rax obviously everyone would be saying "wow lol JD killed Flash"...

People who act like game 4 was telling of anything are trolling or overreacting to people shitting on JD like it's his fault this shit happened.

Flash should have just walked out with KT :/
machinus
Profile Joined January 2010
United States291 Posts
January 23 2010 12:19 GMT
#3800
Jaedong won two games, and was awarded the MSL title. There is no way to pretend that makes sense.
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