EPT[OSL] EVER 2009 OSL Grand Final - Flash vs Movie - Page 184
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
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Noxide
United States2870 Posts
He is the only one who can give Flash a run for his money, but still I don't think he can take 3 games off, so I'm hoping for a great msl finals and a 3-2 win for Flash. A 5th set would be really epic. | ||
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JohnColtrane
Australia4813 Posts
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
now go take that MSL title of yours | ||
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darktreb
United States3017 Posts
On January 17 2010 20:38 MountainDewJunkie wrote: 1) 3-1 =/= "close" to winning series (individual games weren't that close either) 2) EOTS is the only one of these 4 maps that is really statistically P>T 3) Stork and Bisu weren't in the finals (couldn't beat  Shine), so spare us your hypotheticalsI don't understand the acrimony in your post. 1) The individual games were "close" in the sense that Movie was ahead at some point in each game with the potential to be more ahead with better play. In PvT these days, if P is even after a certain point, P is actually ahead. 2) Statistically my ass. The sample size for each of these maps is statistically insignificant. Watch the TvPs that were played on these maps. Watch the caliber of the victor and the loser when T wins. Make a judgement based on more than stats. And it doesn't hurt that the progamers (such as Flash, Calm, and even Movie himself) felt this way too. 3) My hypothetical was simply that if Stork or Bisu had played these games with Movie's openings, they very well could have won. It was in response to the person who said he felt Flash's TvP was unbeatable, and I was giving an example as to how it wasn't. Don't really understand why you're so bitter about this.... | ||
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okum
France5778 Posts
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JohnColtrane
Australia4813 Posts
On January 17 2010 20:47 okum wrote: How large was the audience? people were saying the games had to start 10min later because they were trying to figure out how to fit in an extra 2000 peoples | ||
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Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + according to Elo atleast :< | ||
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darktreb
United States3017 Posts
I'm as big a Flash fan as there is, but I also watch him with a very critical eye. His TvZ dominance is still there, but it's not like it was two months ago, as now all the big names have had a go and have iterated on a potential counter style. In a sense Jaedong was "unlucky" (perhaps unfortunate is the better choice of word here) to have played Flash "first". Flash crushed him then and should be the favorite here, but we can't conclude anything until after JD gets a full week of BO5 preparation. | ||
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Cpadolf
Sweden1199 Posts
On January 17 2010 20:27 hixhix wrote: That's how the system works. ELO is not a reward or alike, it measures the relative skill between players. Given their ELOs before the match, Flash is expected to win 3-0. If he only wins 3-1, the relative skill gap between them is too wide and needs to be adjusted. Yes, I know. I was just pointing out how ridiculous it was that he has been able to reach such a level where this would happen. | ||
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
1). Game 1, failed attack at the wall, repeatedly attempting and failing recalls 2). Game 1, refusal to switch to carriers after being ahead in units and expansions (I actually thought Movie was going to ride his advantage to victory until Flash took his fourth) 3). Game 4, attacking the marines and scvs with the probes. In response to the rush, wouldn't it be better to just build probes from the natural and forfeit the expansion? I think the protoss might actually pull ahead given how the Terran had to pull SCVs and make the bunker. | ||
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InFiNitY[pG]
Germany3474 Posts
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
Wow. HE FINALLY DID IT AGAIN! | ||
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darktreb
United States3017 Posts
On January 17 2010 20:52 Cambium wrote: Three things really bothered me this series (even though I was cheering for Flash) 1). Game 1, failed attack at the wall, repeatedly attempting and failing recalls 2). Game 1, refusal to switch to carriers after being ahead in units and expansions (I actually thought Movie was going to ride his advantage to victory until Flash took his fourth) 3). Game 4, attacking the marines and scvs with the probes. In response to the rush, wouldn't it be better to just build probes from the natural and forfeit the expansion? I think the protoss might actually pull ahead given how the Terran had to pull SCVs and make the bunker. Yep, Movie is a baller (my favorite P, it's a shame he had to go against my favorite player Flash here) but definitely could have played better. If anything this series told me that it's a good thing Stork didn't make the finals (thanks Shine). Stork wins game 3 as well as at least one of the other three games, if not more. And then the last game is on Heartbreak again (with New Heartbreak really not being that much better than Old). If Stork holds steady, the corpse formerly known as "Starleague Bisu" ever gets reanimated, and the maps remain like this, I do not like Flash's chances against either player in a BoX next season. | ||
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SimonB
United States1088 Posts
Part of the reason why Movie won was he went for such a strange time for a tech switch. I was thinking he was done when I saw it, but lucky for him, Flash didn't scout it at all and was caught completely by surprise by 5 carriers on his tanks. I thought Movie played very well. His strategies would've crushed any other Terran, but Flash had some of the best defense I've ever seen and his mechanics overwhelmed Movie. | ||
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On January 17 2010 20:59 SimonB wrote: I don't see how it can be assumed Stork wins game 3. Part of the reason why Movie won was he went for such a strange time for a tech switch. I was thinking he was done when I saw it, but lucky for him, Flash didn't scout it at all and was caught completely by surprise by 5 carriers on his tanks. I thought Movie played very well. His strategies would've crushed any other Terran, but Flash had some of the best defense I've ever seen and his mechanics overwhelmed Movie. I thought Movie played well, except his timing was off, especially in game 1. I thought he had plenty of chances to kill Flash, but he just never seized it. Credit Flash for playing well, but I think Movie blew it on HBR. | ||
Xxio
Canada5565 Posts
CLICK | ||
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darktreb
United States3017 Posts
Just a rational fan. I would never have stopped being a Flash fan but after 4 consecutive ugly exits from both leagues, how could you not wonder? He hadn't even played a BO5 in MSL or OSL since ForGG.... It was never a given that he'd improve, even with his young age. Flash needed to get smarter as a person more than he did as a player, and that's what happened and has triggered his success this year. But you can't count on people maturing in time - that's a wild card. | ||
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XiaoJoyce-
China2908 Posts
Then I felt uncomfortable, felt upset might happen.. some thoughts of flash getting 2 silvers. Lols And then flash won 4th set easily :-) . What a relieve. Phew. | ||
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
On January 17 2010 21:01 Roffles wrote: I thought Movie played well, except his timing was off, especially in game 1. I thought he had plenty of chances to kill Flash, but he just never seized it. Credit Flash for playing well, but I think Movie blew it on HBR. Yea, movie *really* blew it on HBR. He started with such a huge advantage and never took actions to capitalize it. The map basically dictates an even split in late-game, and Terran > Protoss on even bases. | ||
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