• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:02
CEST 03:02
KST 10:02
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon98Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?179Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9
StarCraft 2
General
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Has online-only competition during the pandemic changed your enjoyment of pro SC2? How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026? Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Fall Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament KSL Week #92
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Remastered crash fix suggestions Syncronization issues and can't find games a Announcement on the JEDI Ringing ASL22 General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro16 Group D The Casual Games of the Week Thread Small VOD Thread 2.0 BWCL Season 65 Announcement
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation Diablo IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Post Your Watch!
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Virtual Romance, Real-Life C…
TrAiDoS
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 12290 users

[OSL] EVER 2009 OSL Grand Final - Flash vs Movie - Page 184

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 182 183 184 185 186 198 Next
EtherealDeath
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States8366 Posts
January 17 2010 11:43 GMT
#3661
lol, Flash is so good he lost 5 elo points for winning 3-1.
Noxide
Profile Joined July 2009
United States2870 Posts
January 17 2010 11:43 GMT
#3662
On January 17 2010 20:38 FireGuyX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2010 20:36 Noxide wrote:
On January 17 2010 20:30 FireGuyX wrote:
On January 17 2010 20:27 darktreb wrote:
On January 17 2010 20:24 Ricjames wrote:
Omg Flash is gonna destroy everyone in 2010 - I really don't see any protoss that could stand up against him right now and his TvZ and TvT are flawless


Honestly I actually thought Movie was quite close to winning that series, and if Stork or Bisu had been playing (and on these maps ... all 4 maps used were good for PvT) they would have had nearly if not more than 50% to win.

Similarly Flash's TvZ keeps getting chipped away at - his 3rd denial style has already been countered to some degree and with literally every great Zerg working on beating it it's only a matter of time. Obviously the JD MSL finals are the greatest test.

But yeah his TvT is absolutely immaculate and I can't see him being anything but a heavy favorite in every important TvT for the foreseeable future.



Yeah I've noticed that, I still think Terrans can do that type of harassment if they split the units. But it would be better if Terrans just send out their whole army to wipe out the zergs main.


His 3rd denial style has been countered by 2 hatch muta...which ends up losing every game against him because of his mnm control, econ advantage, and timing pushes, so not really countered. Zergs still aren't close to breaking his TvZ.


not even Jaedong?


He is the only one who can give Flash a run for his money, but still I don't think he can take 3 games off, so I'm hoping for a great msl finals and a 3-2 win for Flash. A 5th set would be really epic.
Flash ひなの戦争の王である || しかし、実際にはヤフーの ファンタジーサッカー、楽しいプレー私の週末を占めている
JohnColtrane
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Australia4813 Posts
January 17 2010 11:44 GMT
#3663
good job flash, it's been so long. congrats
HEY MEYT
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
January 17 2010 11:46 GMT
#3664
congrats flash!

now go take that MSL title of yours
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
darktreb
Profile Joined May 2007
United States3019 Posts
January 17 2010 11:47 GMT
#3665
On January 17 2010 20:38 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2010 20:27 darktreb wrote:
On January 17 2010 20:24 Ricjames wrote:
Omg Flash is gonna destroy everyone in 2010 - I really don't see any protoss that could stand up against him right now and his TvZ and TvT are flawless


Honestly I actually thought Movie was quite close to winning that series, and if Stork or Bisu had been playing (and on these maps ... all 4 maps used were good for PvT) they would have had nearly if not more than 50% to win.

1) 3-1 =/= "close" to winning series (individual games weren't that close either)
2) EOTS is the only one of these 4 maps that is really statistically P>T
3) Stork and Bisu weren't in the finals (couldn't beat (Z)Shine), so spare us your hypotheticals



I don't understand the acrimony in your post.

1) The individual games were "close" in the sense that Movie was ahead at some point in each game with the potential to be more ahead with better play. In PvT these days, if P is even after a certain point, P is actually ahead.

2) Statistically my ass. The sample size for each of these maps is statistically insignificant. Watch the TvPs that were played on these maps. Watch the caliber of the victor and the loser when T wins. Make a judgement based on more than stats. And it doesn't hurt that the progamers (such as Flash, Calm, and even Movie himself) felt this way too.

3) My hypothetical was simply that if Stork or Bisu had played these games with Movie's openings, they very well could have won. It was in response to the person who said he felt Flash's TvP was unbeatable, and I was giving an example as to how it wasn't.

Don't really understand why you're so bitter about this....
okum
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
France5779 Posts
January 17 2010 11:47 GMT
#3666
How large was the audience?
Flash fan before it was cool | Coiner of "jangbang"
JohnColtrane
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Australia4813 Posts
January 17 2010 11:50 GMT
#3667
On January 17 2010 20:47 okum wrote:
How large was the audience?


people were saying the games had to start 10min later because they were trying to figure out how to fit in an extra 2000 peoples
HEY MEYT
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
January 17 2010 11:50 GMT
#3668
LOL Movie so bad that Flash sucks if he doesn't 3-0 him

+ Show Spoiler +
according to Elo atleast :<
In the woods, there lurks..
darktreb
Profile Joined May 2007
United States3019 Posts
January 17 2010 11:50 GMT
#3669
On January 17 2010 20:38 FireGuyX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2010 20:36 Noxide wrote:
On January 17 2010 20:30 FireGuyX wrote:
On January 17 2010 20:27 darktreb wrote:
On January 17 2010 20:24 Ricjames wrote:
Omg Flash is gonna destroy everyone in 2010 - I really don't see any protoss that could stand up against him right now and his TvZ and TvT are flawless


Honestly I actually thought Movie was quite close to winning that series, and if Stork or Bisu had been playing (and on these maps ... all 4 maps used were good for PvT) they would have had nearly if not more than 50% to win.

Similarly Flash's TvZ keeps getting chipped away at - his 3rd denial style has already been countered to some degree and with literally every great Zerg working on beating it it's only a matter of time. Obviously the JD MSL finals are the greatest test.

But yeah his TvT is absolutely immaculate and I can't see him being anything but a heavy favorite in every important TvT for the foreseeable future.



Yeah I've noticed that, I still think Terrans can do that type of harassment if they split the units. But it would be better if Terrans just send out their whole army to wipe out the zergs main.


His 3rd denial style has been countered by 2 hatch muta...which ends up losing every game against him because of his mnm control, econ advantage, and timing pushes, so not really countered. Zergs still aren't close to breaking his TvZ.


not even Jaedong?


I'm as big a Flash fan as there is, but I also watch him with a very critical eye. His TvZ dominance is still there, but it's not like it was two months ago, as now all the big names have had a go and have iterated on a potential counter style.

In a sense Jaedong was "unlucky" (perhaps unfortunate is the better choice of word here) to have played Flash "first". Flash crushed him then and should be the favorite here, but we can't conclude anything until after JD gets a full week of BO5 preparation.
Cpadolf
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden1199 Posts
January 17 2010 11:51 GMT
#3670
On January 17 2010 20:27 hixhix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2010 20:22 Cpadolf wrote:
lol, Flash's ELO is so out of whack that he lost 5 points by beating a top 20 ELO player 3-1 (gained 4 + 3 then lost 16 and finally gained 4).


That's how the system works. ELO is not a reward or alike, it measures the relative skill between players. Given their ELOs before the match, Flash is expected to win 3-0. If he only wins 3-1, the relative skill gap between them is too wide and needs to be adjusted.


Yes, I know. I was just pointing out how ridiculous it was that he has been able to reach such a level where this would happen.
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-17 11:52:11
January 17 2010 11:52 GMT
#3671
Three things really bothered me this series (even though I was cheering for Flash)

1). Game 1, failed attack at the wall, repeatedly attempting and failing recalls
2). Game 1, refusal to switch to carriers after being ahead in units and expansions (I actually thought Movie was going to ride his advantage to victory until Flash took his fourth)
3). Game 4, attacking the marines and scvs with the probes. In response to the rush, wouldn't it be better to just build probes from the natural and forfeit the expansion? I think the protoss might actually pull ahead given how the Terran had to pull SCVs and make the bunker.
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
InFiNitY[pG]
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
Germany3474 Posts
January 17 2010 11:53 GMT
#3672
Flash's TvZ is not unbeatable. A couple of Zs recently got into a good position against him early by not getting their third base denied (kwanro in semis game 4 for example). Pretty much any Z that manages to kill his first attempt to kill/deny the third with good muta/ling micro. Also he is not immune to muta micro, he just has less weak spots than other terrans without getting an insane amount of turrets (watch hyun vs flash on match point), so if a player like JD or effort can get into a comfortable midgame setting, they can beat him. Kwanro and Calm were just not good enough in their mid/lategame to do so and hyun only won because he was so far ahead thanks to the damage his mutas did, but JD's mid/lategame is so far above those guys that you really should not be so quick to say Z's aren't even close to breaking his tvz.
"I just pressed stimpack, and somehow I won the battle" -Flash
Djabanete
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States2786 Posts
January 17 2010 11:55 GMT
#3673
Hell yes, Flash. HELL YES.

Wow.

HE FINALLY DID IT AGAIN!

May the BeSt man win.
darktreb
Profile Joined May 2007
United States3019 Posts
January 17 2010 11:55 GMT
#3674
On January 17 2010 20:52 Cambium wrote:
Three things really bothered me this series (even though I was cheering for Flash)

1). Game 1, failed attack at the wall, repeatedly attempting and failing recalls
2). Game 1, refusal to switch to carriers after being ahead in units and expansions (I actually thought Movie was going to ride his advantage to victory until Flash took his fourth)
3). Game 4, attacking the marines and scvs with the probes. In response to the rush, wouldn't it be better to just build probes from the natural and forfeit the expansion? I think the protoss might actually pull ahead given how the Terran had to pull SCVs and make the bunker.


Yep, Movie is a baller (my favorite P, it's a shame he had to go against my favorite player Flash here) but definitely could have played better.

If anything this series told me that it's a good thing Stork didn't make the finals (thanks Shine). Stork wins game 3 as well as at least one of the other three games, if not more. And then the last game is on Heartbreak again (with New Heartbreak really not being that much better than Old).

If Stork holds steady, the corpse formerly known as "Starleague Bisu" ever gets reanimated, and the maps remain like this, I do not like Flash's chances against either player in a BoX next season.
SimonB
Profile Joined September 2008
United States1088 Posts
January 17 2010 11:59 GMT
#3675
I don't see how it can be assumed Stork wins game 3.

Part of the reason why Movie won was he went for such a strange time for a tech switch. I was thinking he was done when I saw it, but lucky for him, Flash didn't scout it at all and was caught completely by surprise by 5 carriers on his tanks.

I thought Movie played very well. His strategies would've crushed any other Terran, but Flash had some of the best defense I've ever seen and his mechanics overwhelmed Movie.
Roffles *
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Pitcairn19291 Posts
January 17 2010 12:01 GMT
#3676
On January 17 2010 20:59 SimonB wrote:
I don't see how it can be assumed Stork wins game 3.

Part of the reason why Movie won was he went for such a strange time for a tech switch. I was thinking he was done when I saw it, but lucky for him, Flash didn't scout it at all and was caught completely by surprise by 5 carriers on his tanks.

I thought Movie played very well. His strategies would've crushed any other Terran, but Flash had some of the best defense I've ever seen and his mechanics overwhelmed Movie.

I thought Movie played well, except his timing was off, especially in game 1. I thought he had plenty of chances to kill Flash, but he just never seized it.

Credit Flash for playing well, but I think Movie blew it on HBR.
God Bless
Xxio
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada5565 Posts
January 17 2010 12:01 GMT
#3677
Lets get this article all over Digg

CLICK
KTY
darktreb
Profile Joined May 2007
United States3019 Posts
January 17 2010 12:01 GMT
#3678
On January 17 2010 20:29 Zoler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2010 20:29 darktreb wrote:
On January 17 2010 20:22 okum wrote:
LEE YOUNG HO HWAITING!

This was so well deserved. After all these disappointments during the last 1.5 years, it finally happened. All original Flash fans unite!


Seriously ... for awhile I was no longer sure Flash had the "something extra" it takes to be a champion anymore.

It took much longer than expected but he's got his 2nd one, and I don't think a 3rd or even a 4th will take as long this time.


no true flash fan


Just a rational fan. I would never have stopped being a Flash fan but after 4 consecutive ugly exits from both leagues, how could you not wonder? He hadn't even played a BO5 in MSL or OSL since ForGG....

It was never a given that he'd improve, even with his young age. Flash needed to get smarter as a person more than he did as a player, and that's what happened and has triggered his success this year. But you can't count on people maturing in time - that's a wild card.
XiaoJoyce-
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
China2908 Posts
January 17 2010 12:02 GMT
#3679
I was so worried when Flash loses the 3rd set. There was some kind of Royal Roader and Legend of the fall thingy that kept on appearing on the comment.

Then I felt uncomfortable, felt upset might happen..

some thoughts of flash getting 2 silvers. Lols

And then flash won 4th set easily :-) . What a relieve. Phew.
Pew! Pew! Chitty Chitty Bang Bang!
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
January 17 2010 12:04 GMT
#3680
On January 17 2010 21:01 Roffles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2010 20:59 SimonB wrote:
I don't see how it can be assumed Stork wins game 3.

Part of the reason why Movie won was he went for such a strange time for a tech switch. I was thinking he was done when I saw it, but lucky for him, Flash didn't scout it at all and was caught completely by surprise by 5 carriers on his tanks.

I thought Movie played very well. His strategies would've crushed any other Terran, but Flash had some of the best defense I've ever seen and his mechanics overwhelmed Movie.

I thought Movie played well, except his timing was off, especially in game 1. I thought he had plenty of chances to kill Flash, but he just never seized it.

Credit Flash for playing well, but I think Movie blew it on HBR.


Yea, movie *really* blew it on HBR. He started with such a huge advantage and never took actions to capitalize it. The map basically dictates an even split in late-game, and Terran > Protoss on even bases.
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
Prev 1 182 183 184 185 186 198 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
ISSL Monthly #1 - Day 1
CranKy Ducklings112
LiquipediaDiscussion
OSC
22:00
Masters Cup #151
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2087
GuemChi 1722
Artosis 547
ViBE51
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm88
PGG 46
febbydoto21
League of Legends
Doublelift3991
Counter-Strike
minikerr23
Super Smash Bros
PPMD68
Other Games
summit1g10143
Liquid`RaSZi1761
Day[9].tv731
C9.Mang0289
XaKoH 258
PiGStarcraft133
Livibee122
Mew2King55
Liquid`TLO23
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1924
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 72
• EnkiAlexander 17
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki12
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Day9tv731
• imaqtpie626
• Shiphtur94
Upcoming Events
IntoTheTV X SOOP
9h 58m
RotterdaM Event
15h 13m
Replay Cast
22h 58m
GSL
1d 9h
Replay Cast
1d 22h
GSL
2 days
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
2 days
Spirit vs Mixu
Replay Cast
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Shine vs Rush
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Light vs EffOrt
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Calamity Invitational
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.