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On January 07 2010 21:52 darktreb wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 21:50 blue_arrow wrote:
ok i'm just gonna post this general reply to all the replies to my post
ok first the technical aspects and the examples that people bring up:
Yeah, flash had his extremely difficult struggles too, what with holding up a failing team, but JD came out fighting and overcoming his obstacles, whilst Flash failed to do so. Yes you can sympathsize with why Flash failed to overcome his troubles, but you still cannot ignore the accomplishments that JD managed to pull while facing similar and perhaps even more difficult challenges.
There should be no debate at all that Jaedong had it much easier in PL last year than Flash. None whatsoever. The impact each player had on their team is not even comparable statistically.
ok, even if i do concede to you the point that KTF sucked 100x as much balls as Oz last PL season, even if i do concede to you the related point that it was all KTF's fault that Flash sucked so much in his individual leagues, the thing is, JD still had worse issues to deal with; and by the end of JD's story, JD emerged victorious and as an individual who struggled through so, so much to get to where he was by the time he won his golden mouse.
Flash had his terrible burdens, and he very understandably collapsed under these burdens, but then it stops at that. People can sympathsize with why he failed, but his struggles were never made out to be extremely tragic and terribly saddening. If Flash's path to failure had been made out to be as tragic/awesome as JD's path to success, I'm 100% certain that Flash would be recieving 10x less hate than what he is getting right now. People would be saying that he is very deserving of his success right now, and that it would be the utmost perfect thing for him to continue on successfully until he wins both the OSL and MSL. He'd be the most loved guy ever.
Again this is all about the emotion and empathy that got JD more love and less hate than what Flash is getting as of now. And again I'll admit that most likely I'm emotionally biased here in one way or another.
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A lot of people hate Jaedong, too, just not as much because Zerg isn't as turtley as Terran.
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On January 07 2010 22:04 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Also, with these wins, Flash has passed up Bisu's vP elo. He's 26 points away from Jaedong and, if he does eventually pass the dong in vP, he will be the #1 elo in all categories. How awesome.
With the way he's been playing, he'll become #1 Peak Terran versus All soon. He just needs to break that sacred TvZ oov record.
Alas, I hope Kwanro gets to show off his skills vs Flash, instead of trying to win all the games early. His long game vs Light was entertaining when in comparison to the others he played versus him.
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konadora
Singapore66366 Posts
On January 07 2010 21:54 TwoToneTerran wrote:
So, the 2 year question is finally answered.
What would it be like if Flash was on a good team that didn't work him to death?
This is our answer.
finally KT isn't KTFlash anymore
must be the change to Olleh KT!
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On January 07 2010 22:11 konadora wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 21:54 TwoToneTerran wrote:
So, the 2 year question is finally answered.
What would it be like if Flash was on a good team that didn't work him to death?
This is our answer. finally KT isn't KTFlash anymore must be the change to Olleh KT!
Violet suddenly changing from literally the worst player into a top 5 protoss helped a lot too. :o
Also? Sexy uniforms.
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On January 07 2010 22:05 whathappened wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 22:01 darktreb wrote:On January 07 2010 21:58 whathappened wrote:On January 07 2010 21:52 darktreb wrote:On January 07 2010 21:50 blue_arrow wrote:
ok i'm just gonna post this general reply to all the replies to my post
ok first the technical aspects and the examples that people bring up:
Yeah, flash had his extremely difficult struggles too, what with holding up a failing team, but JD came out fighting and overcoming his obstacles, whilst Flash failed to do so. Yes you can sympathsize with why Flash failed to overcome his troubles, but you still cannot ignore the accomplishments that JD managed to pull while facing similar and perhaps even more difficult challenges.
There should be no debate at all that Jaedong had it much easier in PL last year than Flash. None whatsoever. The impact each player had on their team is not even comparable statistically. I like Jaedong 'cause he 4 (5?) pooled Iris 2 proleagues ago and his team got reversed all-killed in the finals. It showed that he actually cared about his team. Even if it wasn't intentionally throwing the game, it showed a side to him that you don't really get to see in other players. As for Flash, would he do the same? Would he be on an all-kill streak then throw it away with some stupid BBS/double proxy factory? Or would he play standard like his previous games that were pretty much one-sided? This can't be discerned. I don't think that makes any sense. JD 5 pools Skyhigh (not Iris) and it shows a side of him that you don't really get to see? What side? You're actually complimenting JD for the 5 pool? For not doing something that'll easily get him the win. Why didn't he do his standard 3-hatch muta and finish the game? Do you think if Flash would do the same? (clarification, second part of my post was the 'subject' of the first" And I stand corrected, I don't follow CJ Entus /at all/. For some reason I was thinking Skyhigh was on Oz while Hiya was the other CJ terran. >.>
To each his own, but I really don't understand how that speaks more highly of JD.
From a fan's perspective, if JD's 5 pool against Skyhigh:
1. Fails
Then it sucks that he 5 pooled and failed
2. Succeeds
Then it sucks that he didn't win conventionally in a more interesting way (5 pool really isn't that interesting most of the time...)
I don't think JD actually practiced too much ZvT on RH3 which is the real reason he 5-pooled. He figured it might be really surprising, it would immediately put the pressure on his cold opponent, and T >> Z on RH3. It's true he beat Flash the previous round but it took a hidden expo and an extremely long and difficult game to do it.
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konadora
Singapore66366 Posts
On January 07 2010 22:10 whathappened wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 22:04 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Also, with these wins, Flash has passed up Bisu's vP elo. He's 26 points away from Jaedong and, if he does eventually pass the dong in vP, he will be the #1 elo in all categories. How awesome. With the way he's been playing, he'll become #1 Peak Terran versus All soon. He just needs to break that sacred TvZ oov record.
I just noticed he's just 1 point behind.. lol wow
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On January 07 2010 22:11 konadora wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 21:54 TwoToneTerran wrote:
So, the 2 year question is finally answered.
What would it be like if Flash was on a good team that didn't work him to death?
This is our answer. finally KT isn't KTFlash anymore must be the change to Olleh KT!
It could be that Park-Chan-Ho mistake being corrected by bringing aboard some Protoss blood. Chin-toss and Violet take the world off Flash's shoulders for once.
Also, the million(okay 3..4 if you count on Luxury) KT zergs means they have a pick of any matchup for sniping.
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On January 07 2010 22:05 whathappened wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 22:01 darktreb wrote:On January 07 2010 21:58 whathappened wrote:On January 07 2010 21:52 darktreb wrote:On January 07 2010 21:50 blue_arrow wrote:
ok i'm just gonna post this general reply to all the replies to my post
ok first the technical aspects and the examples that people bring up:
Yeah, flash had his extremely difficult struggles too, what with holding up a failing team, but JD came out fighting and overcoming his obstacles, whilst Flash failed to do so. Yes you can sympathsize with why Flash failed to overcome his troubles, but you still cannot ignore the accomplishments that JD managed to pull while facing similar and perhaps even more difficult challenges.
There should be no debate at all that Jaedong had it much easier in PL last year than Flash. None whatsoever. The impact each player had on their team is not even comparable statistically. I like Jaedong 'cause he 4 (5?) pooled Iris 2 proleagues ago and his team got reversed all-killed in the finals. It showed that he actually cared about his team. Even if it wasn't intentionally throwing the game, it showed a side to him that you don't really get to see in other players. As for Flash, would he do the same? Would he be on an all-kill streak then throw it away with some stupid BBS/double proxy factory? Or would he play standard like his previous games that were pretty much one-sided? This can't be discerned. I don't think that makes any sense. JD 5 pools Skyhigh (not Iris) and it shows a side of him that you don't really get to see? What side? You're actually complimenting JD for the 5 pool? For not doing something that'll easily get him the win. Why didn't he do his standard 3-hatch muta and finish the game? Do you think if Flash would do the same? (clarification, second part of my post was the 'subject' of the first" And I stand corrected, I don't follow CJ Entus /at all/. For some reason I was thinking Skyhigh was on Oz while Hiya was the other CJ terran. >.>
Flash did it in Game 2 in the match vs Jaedong, this msl.
Not going for his standard-game-winning mass m&m's macro pvz, but doing proxy-rax, the equivalent to a zerg 5 pool.
you did hate him for that!
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On January 07 2010 22:13 darktreb wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 22:05 whathappened wrote:On January 07 2010 22:01 darktreb wrote:On January 07 2010 21:58 whathappened wrote:On January 07 2010 21:52 darktreb wrote:On January 07 2010 21:50 blue_arrow wrote:
ok i'm just gonna post this general reply to all the replies to my post
ok first the technical aspects and the examples that people bring up:
Yeah, flash had his extremely difficult struggles too, what with holding up a failing team, but JD came out fighting and overcoming his obstacles, whilst Flash failed to do so. Yes you can sympathsize with why Flash failed to overcome his troubles, but you still cannot ignore the accomplishments that JD managed to pull while facing similar and perhaps even more difficult challenges.
There should be no debate at all that Jaedong had it much easier in PL last year than Flash. None whatsoever. The impact each player had on their team is not even comparable statistically. I like Jaedong 'cause he 4 (5?) pooled Iris 2 proleagues ago and his team got reversed all-killed in the finals. It showed that he actually cared about his team. Even if it wasn't intentionally throwing the game, it showed a side to him that you don't really get to see in other players. As for Flash, would he do the same? Would he be on an all-kill streak then throw it away with some stupid BBS/double proxy factory? Or would he play standard like his previous games that were pretty much one-sided? This can't be discerned. I don't think that makes any sense. JD 5 pools Skyhigh (not Iris) and it shows a side of him that you don't really get to see? What side? You're actually complimenting JD for the 5 pool? For not doing something that'll easily get him the win. Why didn't he do his standard 3-hatch muta and finish the game? Do you think if Flash would do the same? (clarification, second part of my post was the 'subject' of the first" And I stand corrected, I don't follow CJ Entus /at all/. For some reason I was thinking Skyhigh was on Oz while Hiya was the other CJ terran. >.> To each his own, but I really don't understand how that speaks more highly of JD. From a fan's perspective, if JD's 5 pool against Skyhigh: 1. Fails Then it sucks that he 5 pooled and failed 2. Succeeds Then it sucks that he didn't win conventionally in a more interesting way (5 pool really isn't that interesting most of the time...) I don't think JD actually practiced too much ZvT on RH3 which is the real reason he 5-pooled. He figured it might be really surprising, it would immediately put the pressure on his cold opponent, and T >> Z on RH3. It's true he beat Flash the previous round but it took a hidden expo and an extremely long and difficult game to do it.
Well I meant it on a personal note, that's why I continued to like Jaedong after he wrecked Flash.  But your analyst is most likely correct. I didn't watch the VODs after the live game. So one time through could have clouded my judgment or memory.
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On January 07 2010 21:54 TwoToneTerran wrote:
So, the 2 year question is finally answered.
What would it be like if Flash was on a good team that didn't work him to death?
This is our answer.
Haha QFT!
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On January 07 2010 22:15 Heimatloser wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 22:05 whathappened wrote:On January 07 2010 22:01 darktreb wrote:On January 07 2010 21:58 whathappened wrote:On January 07 2010 21:52 darktreb wrote:On January 07 2010 21:50 blue_arrow wrote:
ok i'm just gonna post this general reply to all the replies to my post
ok first the technical aspects and the examples that people bring up:
Yeah, flash had his extremely difficult struggles too, what with holding up a failing team, but JD came out fighting and overcoming his obstacles, whilst Flash failed to do so. Yes you can sympathsize with why Flash failed to overcome his troubles, but you still cannot ignore the accomplishments that JD managed to pull while facing similar and perhaps even more difficult challenges.
There should be no debate at all that Jaedong had it much easier in PL last year than Flash. None whatsoever. The impact each player had on their team is not even comparable statistically. I like Jaedong 'cause he 4 (5?) pooled Iris 2 proleagues ago and his team got reversed all-killed in the finals. It showed that he actually cared about his team. Even if it wasn't intentionally throwing the game, it showed a side to him that you don't really get to see in other players. As for Flash, would he do the same? Would he be on an all-kill streak then throw it away with some stupid BBS/double proxy factory? Or would he play standard like his previous games that were pretty much one-sided? This can't be discerned. I don't think that makes any sense. JD 5 pools Skyhigh (not Iris) and it shows a side of him that you don't really get to see? What side? You're actually complimenting JD for the 5 pool? For not doing something that'll easily get him the win. Why didn't he do his standard 3-hatch muta and finish the game? Do you think if Flash would do the same? (clarification, second part of my post was the 'subject' of the first" And I stand corrected, I don't follow CJ Entus /at all/. For some reason I was thinking Skyhigh was on Oz while Hiya was the other CJ terran. >.> Flash did it in Game 2 in the match vs Jaedong, this msl. Not going for his standard-game-winning mass m&m's macro pvz, but doing proxy-rax, the equivalent to a zerg 5 pool. you did hate him for that!
I didn't hate him for that. I /love/ that bunker rush. But the 5-pool I spoke of was a team-game where Jaedong could place reliance in 1 of 3 of his teammates to take a single game, rather than Flash having to go to a third game on an another & more balanced(Flash's terms) map.
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So many retards in this thread.
Its not Flashes fault he is so dominant right now, its the opponents. Why are people hating on flash because he is winning his games? Please be hating on your nr 1. player who fails to be as good as him if you feel you have to hate someone.
But hatersgonnahate.gif
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I can't get bored of bw, its too much fun. I don't just watch who wins and who loses, i like every fight in every game if microed properly. I like the small details just as much as the whole...
New strats are made all the time, just not as drastic as in the old days but im fine with that.
its not like other sports changes superdrastically all the time...
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On January 07 2010 22:13 konadora wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 22:10 whathappened wrote:On January 07 2010 22:04 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Also, with these wins, Flash has passed up Bisu's vP elo. He's 26 points away from Jaedong and, if he does eventually pass the dong in vP, he will be the #1 elo in all categories. How awesome. With the way he's been playing, he'll become #1 Peak Terran versus All soon. He just needs to break that sacred TvZ oov record. I just noticed he's just 1 point behind.. lol wow
He is also comming close to Jaedong's vZ peak also and thats crazy , because when Jaedong made that he had 80 % and above winrate in ZvZ , still i doubt anyone will ever pass Jaedong's vZ peak .
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On January 07 2010 22:20 Patrio wrote:
So many retards in this thread.
Its not Flashes fault he is so dominant right now, its the opponents. Why are people hating on flash because he is winning his games? Please be hating on your nr 1. player who fails to be as good as him if you feel you have to hate someone.
But hatersgonnahate.gif
Exactly, its not like there's a balance issue rather its a player issue. Look at all the TvZ's and TvT's outside of Flash's games for a reference. But time will bring forth new challenges to show if they have stepped up. (not Shine, imo.. Kwanro has a better chance of doing it).
Edit: Oh and on a final note concerning Flash haters.. You only have 6 more months of foreseeable Flash winnings. Once his birthday comes, he'll go back to his birthday slump.
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from flash interview.
- You played defensively in the second set.
▲ I had no choice, due to the way the map is designed. If I split the map in half, then of course the Terran wins. The Protoss should go for a head-on attack, but I think BeSt thought that would cost him too much.
I also think that map is abit wierd for tvp, its designed for turtlemode..
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On January 07 2010 22:30 StylishVODs wrote:
from flash interview.
- You played defensively in the second set.
▲ I had no choice, due to the way the map is designed. If I split the map in half, then of course the Terran wins. The Protoss should go for a head-on attack, but I think BeSt thought that would cost him too much.
I also think that map is abit wierd for tvp, its designed for turtlemode..
Very similar to bluestorm imo
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its ok,  Flash still has more fans than ant-fans. as the most of the anti-fans are Only derived from the T1 shity fans...... i dont get y the T1 fans dont complain when what  BeSt does is 2 base abiters and macro all the way to win. they dont understand that T is not like P, u cant atk move and win.......
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EPT
