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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On January 07 2010 21:42 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 21:29 Roffles wrote:On January 07 2010 21:23 blue_arrow wrote:On January 07 2010 21:18 Roffles wrote:On January 07 2010 21:14 SiDX wrote:
I don't remember people complaining about jaedong this much Even at his height, he wasn't absolutely dominant like Flash is right now. The guy is clearly untouchable, as Oov was when he burst onto the scene with his macro. yeah and also jd was loved so much for his spirit and that air of constant struggle that he gave off. along with the mostly-crappy team that he came from, his nearly-career-destroying FA issues, and his constantly-humble manner, very few people could really hate him strongly. tbh jd's character at his peak was much more admirable than flash's character is as of now Flash is a good guy, no doubt about it. But his play can get robotic and absolutely boring. I'm beginning to feel the same way about everyone these days. The variance in games and the excitement has gone down drastically from the last few years. eh? I don't think you could be farther from the truth =/ Today's play is far more varied than when Flash was last dominating. Perhaps a little less varied than 3 months ago but hell, it's pretty good overall! Just look at the contrasting Zerg's styles out there atm or the contrasting protoss styles. Flash's play is pretty much exactly the same every game, ill give you that! but other terrans play the game differently so meh. Sounds like you're just bored with Flash dominating more than anything else
Yeah, I'm pretty much just bored with Flash owning everyone else. I had to throw a little something else in there to make it look like I had some other argument.
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On January 07 2010 21:43 SilverskY wrote:
I like how every single argument that a hater has posted, it's always about Flash. How about telling the competition to get better? yeah, haters are going "flash should play worse for the sake of entertainment" instead of "the rest of the field/someone should close the gap" and for those saying flash isnt entertaining, let me ask did you watch calm vs flash? it may have been 3-1, but it was tense as fuck
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On January 07 2010 21:44 Hinanawi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 21:43 SilverskY wrote:
I like how every single argument that a hater has posted, it's always about Flash. How about telling the competition to get better? No, Flash needs to stop being so good. It's only fair. He needs to find that perfect window where his games aren't too short, but aren't too long either. If he can't win between the, say, 15 to 25 minute mark window, he should just suicide all his units in one final attack. Or maybe he should start offracing as Protoss. That would be fun.
There was that show match where he played PvT versus... Jangbi? It might have been Best.. and he won. Or: as how the game went.. the Terran lost.
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Korea (South)3086 Posts
On January 07 2010 21:46 whathappened wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 21:44 Hinanawi wrote:On January 07 2010 21:43 SilverskY wrote:
I like how every single argument that a hater has posted, it's always about Flash. How about telling the competition to get better? No, Flash needs to stop being so good. It's only fair. He needs to find that perfect window where his games aren't too short, but aren't too long either. If he can't win between the, say, 15 to 25 minute mark window, he should just suicide all his units in one final attack. Or maybe he should start offracing as Protoss. That would be fun. There was that show match where he played PvT versus... Jangbi? It might have been Best.. and he won. Or: as how the game went.. the Terran lost.
Flash's Protoss is really, REALLY good... No joke.
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I'm sure a lot of the haters just hate Flash because he is too good at the moment. Korean progamers on the other hand, would be training their asses off to beat Flash.
That's why Korean starcraft keeps improving, players working hard to chase the best, rather than resigning to the fact that they are not good enough to beat the best.
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ok i'm just gonna post this general reply to all the replies to my post
ok first the technical aspects and the examples that people bring up:
Yeah, flash had his extremely difficult struggles too, what with holding up a failing team, but JD came out fighting and overcoming his obstacles, whilst Flash failed to do so. Yes you can sympathsize with why Flash failed to overcome his troubles, but you still cannot ignore the accomplishments that JD managed to pull while facing similar and perhaps even more difficult challenges.
Also again, I'm not attacking the goodness or humblness or niceness of Flash's character, he is morally-sound and nice guy; what I'm trying to say is that JD is loved more and hated less because JD is simply admired more for his character within the context of his difficult situations.
now i want to talk about the emotional aspects that seperate JD from flash
You could/should/would generally agree that JD shows more relatable emotion than Flash does, or at least has shown more relatable emotion in the past 2-3 seasons. Understandably, this might be due in part to the much wider coverage that JD has recieved (at least on TL) compared to Flash in the past 2 or 3 seasons. Throughout his FA troubles, his back-to-back OSLs, his failure in the PL finals you could earnestly tell that the man was struggling with all his heart and soul while being emotionally racked by all the issues going on around him. His parent's fighting with his team managers, the prospect of losing your closest friends and teamates, of having to put an end to the life as he knew it, I mean come on, you have to emotionally sympathsize with JD helluva lot more than you do with Flash!
So I guess I'll end this reply by saying that this is probably biased by my own emotional perceptions of JD as a progamer vs. flash as a progamer. My goal, however, was to emulate what I felt to be the specific reasons behind the TL-love for JD's character, and corresponding lack of hate, relative to the arguably larger amount of hate that Flash is experiencing now.
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Also: all the talk about the b-word. No! You saw what happened to BoxeR and Oov and Nada and Savior 
Just. Stop.
+ Show Spoiler +
..and Bisu needs to stop chasing girls and practice more, seriously.
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On January 07 2010 21:50 blue_arrow wrote:
ok i'm just gonna post this general reply to all the replies to my post
ok first the technical aspects and the examples that people bring up:
Yeah, flash had his extremely difficult struggles too, what with holding up a failing team, but JD came out fighting and overcoming his obstacles, whilst Flash failed to do so. Yes you can sympathsize with why Flash failed to overcome his troubles, but you still cannot ignore the accomplishments that JD managed to pull while facing similar and perhaps even more difficult challenges.
There should be no debate at all that Jaedong had it much easier in PL last year than Flash. None whatsoever. The impact each player had on their team is not even comparable statistically.
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As a Terran player, I watch Flash's game JUST for educational purpose. I mean come on, his Terran play is flawless and try to manipulate his plays. But as a StarCraft fan, his style is WAY too generic for me to watch.
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So, the 2 year question is finally answered.
What would it be like if Flash was on a good team that didn't work him to death?
This is our answer.
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Where's recommendation for Flash vs Best games 2 and 3? (just notice ppl that game 2 gets boring at like 15. min mark?)
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@blue_arrow:
If you connect emotionally more with JD then not much to say about that, nothing wrong there. But I think Flash has revealed his own struggles a lot too, albeit perhaps more subtly and in a less published about way. He has in interviews alluded to near-depression in the past due to his failure to go far in leagues, and no one can question his struggle with KT in the proleague.
And look at Flash's interviews now, how humble he is and what a great attitude he has. The other day (after game with Calm I think) he talked about "throwing away the dark memories of the past". That kind of rise in a player is, I think, awesome to witness and emotionally appealing too.
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On January 07 2010 21:52 darktreb wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 21:50 blue_arrow wrote:
ok i'm just gonna post this general reply to all the replies to my post
ok first the technical aspects and the examples that people bring up:
Yeah, flash had his extremely difficult struggles too, what with holding up a failing team, but JD came out fighting and overcoming his obstacles, whilst Flash failed to do so. Yes you can sympathsize with why Flash failed to overcome his troubles, but you still cannot ignore the accomplishments that JD managed to pull while facing similar and perhaps even more difficult challenges.
There should be no debate at all that Jaedong had it much easier in PL last year than Flash. None whatsoever. The impact each player had on their team is not even comparable statistically.
I like Jaedong 'cause he 4 (5?) pooled Iris 2 proleagues ago and his team got reversed all-killed in the finals. It showed that he actually cared about his team. Even if it wasn't intentionally throwing the game, it showed a side to him that you don't really get to see in other players.
As for Flash, would he do the same? Would he be on an all-kill streak then throw it away with some stupid BBS/double proxy factory? Or would he play standard like his previous games that were pretty much one-sided? This can't be discerned.
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On January 07 2010 21:58 whathappened wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 21:52 darktreb wrote:On January 07 2010 21:50 blue_arrow wrote:
ok i'm just gonna post this general reply to all the replies to my post
ok first the technical aspects and the examples that people bring up:
Yeah, flash had his extremely difficult struggles too, what with holding up a failing team, but JD came out fighting and overcoming his obstacles, whilst Flash failed to do so. Yes you can sympathsize with why Flash failed to overcome his troubles, but you still cannot ignore the accomplishments that JD managed to pull while facing similar and perhaps even more difficult challenges.
There should be no debate at all that Jaedong had it much easier in PL last year than Flash. None whatsoever. The impact each player had on their team is not even comparable statistically. I like Jaedong 'cause he 4 (5?) pooled Iris 2 proleagues ago and his team got reversed all-killed in the finals. It showed that he actually cared about his team. Even if it wasn't intentionally throwing the game, it showed a side to him that you don't really get to see in other players. As for Flash, would he do the same? Would he be on an all-kill streak then throw it away with some stupid BBS/double proxy factory? Or would he play standard like his previous games that were pretty much one-sided? This can't be discerned.
It was versus Skyhigh.
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On January 07 2010 21:58 whathappened wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 21:52 darktreb wrote:On January 07 2010 21:50 blue_arrow wrote:
ok i'm just gonna post this general reply to all the replies to my post
ok first the technical aspects and the examples that people bring up:
Yeah, flash had his extremely difficult struggles too, what with holding up a failing team, but JD came out fighting and overcoming his obstacles, whilst Flash failed to do so. Yes you can sympathsize with why Flash failed to overcome his troubles, but you still cannot ignore the accomplishments that JD managed to pull while facing similar and perhaps even more difficult challenges.
There should be no debate at all that Jaedong had it much easier in PL last year than Flash. None whatsoever. The impact each player had on their team is not even comparable statistically. I like Jaedong 'cause he 4 (5?) pooled Iris 2 proleagues ago and his team got reversed all-killed in the finals. It showed that he actually cared about his team. Even if it wasn't intentionally throwing the game, it showed a side to him that you don't really get to see in other players. As for Flash, would he do the same? Would he be on an all-kill streak then throw it away with some stupid BBS/double proxy factory? Or would he play standard like his previous games that were pretty much one-sided? This can't be discerned.
I don't think that makes any sense. JD 5 pools Skyhigh (not Iris) and it shows a side of him that you don't really get to see? What side? You're actually complimenting JD for the 5 pool?
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On January 07 2010 21:58 Kaniol wrote:
Where's recommendation for Flash vs Best games 2 and 3? (just notice ppl that game 2 gets boring at like 15. min mark?)
Game 2 does get boring after 20 minutes, according to the thread.
+ Show Spoiler +Game 2 goes on for like + Show Spoiler +50 minutes with both sides not really doing anything. + Show Spoiler +Until Flash rolls up to Best's base with every tank ever made on iCCUP and Best tries to hold out with just 6 arbiters and a DT. Game 3 is worth a watch + Show Spoiler +if you want to see 4pylon, 3 base, mass zealots (Spirit Toss lol) die to Siege tanks from a 6fac containing them. , but its heartbreaking.
Sorry for the multi-layered spoilers, but they are there for your own protection.
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This is such a set up for a fall. Kwanro will win!
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Also, with these wins, Flash has passed up Bisu's vP elo. He's 26 points away from Jaedong and, if he does eventually pass the dong in vP, he will be the #1 elo in all categories. How awesome.
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On January 07 2010 22:01 darktreb wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 21:58 whathappened wrote:On January 07 2010 21:52 darktreb wrote:On January 07 2010 21:50 blue_arrow wrote:
ok i'm just gonna post this general reply to all the replies to my post
ok first the technical aspects and the examples that people bring up:
Yeah, flash had his extremely difficult struggles too, what with holding up a failing team, but JD came out fighting and overcoming his obstacles, whilst Flash failed to do so. Yes you can sympathsize with why Flash failed to overcome his troubles, but you still cannot ignore the accomplishments that JD managed to pull while facing similar and perhaps even more difficult challenges.
There should be no debate at all that Jaedong had it much easier in PL last year than Flash. None whatsoever. The impact each player had on their team is not even comparable statistically. I like Jaedong 'cause he 4 (5?) pooled Iris 2 proleagues ago and his team got reversed all-killed in the finals. It showed that he actually cared about his team. Even if it wasn't intentionally throwing the game, it showed a side to him that you don't really get to see in other players. As for Flash, would he do the same? Would he be on an all-kill streak then throw it away with some stupid BBS/double proxy factory? Or would he play standard like his previous games that were pretty much one-sided? This can't be discerned. I don't think that makes any sense. JD 5 pools Skyhigh (not Iris) and it shows a side of him that you don't really get to see? What side? You're actually complimenting JD for the 5 pool?
For not doing something that'll easily get him the win. Why didn't he do his standard 3-hatch muta and finish the game? Do you think if Flash would do the same? (clarification, second part of my post was the 'subject' of the first"
And I stand corrected, I don't follow CJ Entus /at all/. For some reason I was thinking Skyhigh was on Oz while Hiya was the other CJ terran. >.>
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Jaedong does something that will make winning less easy and that means he cares more for his team? Wut?
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EPT
