Game 1 - Handicap: No Vessel Ups Nyoken < Outsider > JegsUger
Game 2 - Handicaps: No Vessel Ups // Gas Cap Nyoken < Fighting Spirit > DarthThienAn
Game 3 - Handicaps: No Vessel Ups // Gas Cap // Prod. Fac. Cap Nyoken < Longinus > Zuries
Game 4 - Handicaps: No Vessel Ups // Gas Cap // Prod. Fac. Cap // 1 Ebay/Armory Nyoken < Katrina > Ms2zerg
Game 5 - Handicaps: No Vessel Ups // Gas Cap // Prod. Fac. Cap // 1 Ebay/Armory // No Lift Nyoken < Medusa > Stormtemplar97
Game 6 - Handicaps: No Vessel Ups // Gas Cap // Prod. Fac. Cap // 1 Ebay/Armory // No Lift // No Scan Nyoken < Crystalized > [TSL]ToN
Game 7 - Handicaps: No Vessel Ups // Gas Cap // Prod. Fac. Cap // 1 Ebay/Armory // No Lift // No Scan // Kill ini worker Nyoken < Tornado > Toopham
Wanna thank everyone on the crew, Nyoken, all the players and people who tuned in. Music was Sabaton - Panzer Battalion (and a bunch of other random stuff). You can put feedback/comments/critique in this topic - will be appreciated!
On December 20 2009 10:13 Nal_rAwr wrote: you have to wonder how the hell someone could suck that badly to lose with all those handicaps on the opponent
you have to also wonder how good of a player nyoken is.
On December 20 2009 10:13 Nal_rAwr wrote: you have to wonder how the hell someone could suck that badly to lose with all those handicaps on the opponent
do you realize the skill gap differential here? It'd be like Flash winning with Pure M&M against some B-level toss, wouldn't be that surprising.
We should make 1 of the games that the player has to go 4 Command Center before Barracks (4 Nexus / 4 Hatch). Read the build order on ygosu its truly amazing
On December 20 2009 10:13 Nal_rAwr wrote: you have to wonder how the hell someone could suck that badly to lose with all those handicaps on the opponent
you have to also wonder how good of a player nyoken is.
meh imo in tl arena 2 cloud lost those games because his handicaps were a lot harsher
in arena 3, the handicaps barely had any effect and nyoken could still roll his opponents ez
On December 20 2009 10:13 Nal_rAwr wrote: you have to wonder how the hell someone could suck that badly to lose with all those handicaps on the opponent
do you realize the skill gap differential here? It'd be like Flash winning with Pure M&M against some B-level toss, wouldn't be that surprising.
On December 20 2009 10:13 Nal_rAwr wrote: you have to wonder how the hell someone could suck that badly to lose with all those handicaps on the opponent
do you realize the skill gap differential here? It'd be like Flash winning with Pure M&M against some B-level toss, wouldn't be that surprising.
Honestly, i thought he was going to get like 15 cc's and make constant scv production along with his normal tank/mm, because of the cap.
On December 20 2009 10:13 Nal_rAwr wrote: you have to wonder how the hell someone could suck that badly to lose with all those handicaps on the opponent
meh most of the handicaps had absolutely no effect whatsoever in the early game
Handicaps have no effect? You've got to be shitting me. Maybe for the early games, but by the time you get to the games where he has a limit on the number of production facilities? All you have to do is stop his first push and you basically win by default. There's absolutely no way for him to recover his supply quickly enough off 4 factories TvP. And without scan or vessel upgrades, with only 1 armory for upgrades, arbiters become an absolute fucking nightmare to deal with.
I am really looking forward to the next TL Arena do not fear to make mistakes! If anything went bad you know what to avoid or make better next time!
My 2cents:
Chat annoyed me in 2 ways and there is, in my opinion, simple solution to this.
Those problems are: 1 - I don't know if spamming and bashing is supposed to be funny but I think there were many people who didn't got banned because Pholon and other mods wanted to avoid scrubs crying about their rights to state opinions or some other bullshit. There is 10th TL commandment that handles this situation very well and it should be applied here.
I have no idea how this works but 2 - chat spamming (or just many people chatting) makes not only video to lag (audio including caster commentating isn't altered thank god) but many, many other things lag too - switching to and from full screen, even waiting for bottom bar to appear (when I want to for examle glance at chat or change volume), doing anything in browser, browser (IE, Mozzila, Opera) crashing. I missed the nuke entirely during the game on Longinus, only thanks to Pokebunny I know what was hit and died.
Solution would be to make 2nd stream with the 1st having chat cleared and disabled, with the only text from TLA crew member where to chat and why. This would be a solution to something not as important too - the music. I really can and do listen to anything from kpop to death metal but this is about free choice and NOT just about listening to or not but even volume of it - most people including me will listen to whatever you propose anyways but it doesn't hurt to make it this way.
This would kill 2 birds with 1 stone and is no problem for my, one of the lowest here, ~120 kB bandwith (I think both streams would use less than 60 or even 50).
No Siege should be auto-chosen for last game if it isn't earlier
The games were really awesome.Admire Nyokens play in the first one especially, although he clearly wasn't used to fighting defilers without irradiate he made some pretty damn smart moves. Rest was just amazing too, I would also take the fact that the handicaps didn't hinder him much as an indication of just how well he adapted his strategies.
Also disciple: Great Artwork! Which Software did you render that with?
beetle, I had very little lag even with all the chat happening, the problem is probably on your end.
critiques:
Pholon: there were a couple people there who were clearly only there to cause trouble and ruin other's good times. you kept saying you were going to ban them and even after repeated warnings you didn't follow through. I like your idea of having bonefide mods there next time so that you don't have to waste your time policing us and we can enjoy the game.
Commentating: I didn't mind pokebunny's voice after awhile no real complaints there, but he seemed to have a disproportionately large air time, one moment in particular stood out when he was struggling to describe Crystalized, and I kept thinking "We have the map creator commentating, why doesn't he do it." Another thing was the commentators kept stumbling over each other, trying to describe the same thing, maybe in future have two minute segments so you know who should be talking when, or just commentate more and learn when to pick up and trail off.
On December 20 2009 12:28 DreaM)XeRO wrote: wow Nyoken with the 8-0 EVEN with handicap
None of the handicaps really affected him till the last game, so I think they should up the difficulty of the handicaps to greater affect the early game to even it out more.
On December 20 2009 14:30 annYeong(o11) wrote: beetle, I had very little lag even with all the chat happening, the problem is probably on your end.
For some reason not all people experience it or not as much but I'm sure this is not just on my end, Day[9] doesn't disable chat during his casts for no reason. Really, watch any stream and you will notice many times lag occurring exactly after something big happens - it's people spamming in joy.
People that want to write in chat mustn't be in fullscreen mode so clicking quotation mark or another tab in browser both mean just 1 click and I don't like to suffer because of something so trivial, just as anyone else who has and notices this problem.
Being able to adjust music as it fits you personally is just topping on a cake.
On December 20 2009 12:28 DreaM)XeRO wrote: wow Nyoken with the 8-0 EVEN with handicap
None of the handicaps really affected him till the last game, so I think they should up the difficulty of the handicaps to greater affect the early game to even it out more.
So you're saying that not having irradiate isnt such a big thing in TvZ?
These handicaps were pretty good the problems were that the players failed to use the handicaps to their advantage. Everyone, except the first zerg who played, totally ignored the handicaps and went for standard games.
Thanks for the feedback everyone. I guess I can address a couple of points:
Handicaps too weak - I guess you're right. As he didn't lose I will take the blame for not being able to weaken him. I do disagree that they had no effect at all - there are ways to exploit them - I'm thinking cloaked Wraith in the last TvT with no Scan? We could have a low-rank prerequisite but too many people just don't show up. From the 60 people who enlisted only 6 got to play. Over 50 people did not show up. It's quite sad but I can't help it and will have to resort to letting Ds in.
Commentators clusterfuck - Thanks for pointing this out, we'll definitely work on it. Our original guest caster, unfortunately, couldn't make it (bad weather killed his internet) so we had to improvise a bit. I guess it didn't go as smooth as we'd liked it to be. But yeah none of us are pro caster or anything, please don't critique that, we just try to provide some audio for a fun event
Beetlelisk, I like enforcing the TL Handicap for last game if it hasn't come up, excellent idea
People abusing chat - This made me really really sad. I'd originally wanted to turn off the chat but some LS malfunction wouldn't let me. In my experience LS chats are filled with idiots so on the one hand I reasoned go-here-on-own-risk and use zeroboy if it annoys you. There were however some very abusive people that I did try to ban but LS wouldn't let me for some reason (I'm emailing them about that). The same happened with people joining our games unwanted. Both these things pain me enourmously. I remember the first show where about everyone in the chat room knew the game name / pw and they all stayed away and later even offered to make games etc. We don't want to have to mess about with having to keep them secret. After this though I'll have to get both an iccmod and a chat moderator (which sucks, my idea is to keep the show a small as possible so I can do it as often as possible) for next show. Let it be know I am NOT lenient though. Incur my wrath and feel the consequences! (if LS lets me :/) I have no problem banning you from watching and I will see if actions can be taken against the abusers.
On December 20 2009 12:41 beetlelisk wrote: I am really looking forward to the next TL Arena do not fear to make mistakes! If anything went bad you know what to avoid or make better next time!
My 2cents:
Chat annoyed me in 2 ways and there is, in my opinion, simple solution to this.
Those problems are: 1 - I don't know if spamming and bashing is supposed to be funny but I think there were many people who didn't got banned because Pholon and other mods wanted to avoid scrubs crying about their rights to state opinions or some other bullshit. There is 10th TL commandment that handles this situation very well and it should be applied here.
I have no idea how this works but 2 - chat spamming (or just many people chatting) makes not only video to lag (audio including caster commentating isn't altered thank god) but many, many other things lag too - switching to and from full screen, even waiting for bottom bar to appear (when I want to for examle glance at chat or change volume), doing anything in browser, browser (IE, Mozzila, Opera) crashing. I missed the nuke entirely during the game on Longinus, only thanks to Pokebunny I know what was hit and died.
Solution would be to make 2nd stream with the 1st having chat cleared and disabled, with the only text from TLA crew member where to chat and why. This would be a solution to something not as important too - the music. I really can and do listen to anything from kpop to death metal but this is about free choice and NOT just about listening to or not but even volume of it - most people including me will listen to whatever you propose anyways but it doesn't hurt to make it this way.
This would kill 2 birds with 1 stone and is no problem for my, one of the lowest here, ~120 kB bandwith (I think both streams would use less than 60 or even 50).
No Siege should be auto-chosen for last game if it isn't earlier
As Pholon says they tried to turn off the LS chat. But i dont get why anyone complains about harassment in chat, LS chat is like the youtube comments of chat clients. Anyone sane ignores what people say in LS chat and just logs onto irc / iCCup and talks there, because the fucktards screwing up livestream fortunately don't know how to use irc.
What happened to no siege? Now that's something I want to see in a PvT.
I guess it's impossible to win as anyone who's D+ and has mildly decent macro will just mass dragoons and form a nice arc outside T's natural and 1a2a3a4a5a6a7a8a9a when T tries to move out.
i apologize for any comments that were made in my name, but somebody hijacked my username and was... well... derogatory -_-
please don't think i'm a complete douchebag, even though i am a bit of one. I accept responsibility for those comments as, well, not much I can say otherwise to profess my innocence in this manner.
As for the casting itself...
the mg. team did a good job providing insights, although a lot of people were tuned off by pokebunny's voice for some reason. i think it has more to deal with the fact that people just wanted to troll (like I did, but mostly due to the fact that he bans me in channel all the time) and decided to jump on poke's voice. It wasn't at all as bad as many people said it was.
I think that, to be honest, the event was as organized as it could have been, given all the conflicts and chaos and the numerous people participating. However, the chat was a bit of a problem. Pholon if you put on procaster you could probably have banned everybody (including whoever I was) no problemo. Even though it's bad when it comes to SC, its good for banning.
Once again, thanks to all for hosting, thanks to pholon for putting up with the chat, and hope that I can be of assistance in organizing any future ones.
I don't think the handicaps weren't crippling enough, it was just that the players just sucked so much that they couldn't properly capitalize on the handicaps -_- handicaps were difficult enough to deal w/ imo, just find some slightly better players.
haha well after no scan was chosen I really was just really nervous about playing nyoken and as I've never rushed dt before I figured I'd just try to play standard and pray I could fend off the 2 fact but alas it did not turn out to well... ^^ gg and thanks everyone for there work.
On December 20 2009 14:30 annYeong(o11) wrote: beetle, I had very little lag even with all the chat happening, the problem is probably on your end.
critiques:
Pholon: there were a couple people there who were clearly only there to cause trouble and ruin other's good times. you kept saying you were going to ban them and even after repeated warnings you didn't follow through. I like your idea of having bonefide mods there next time so that you don't have to waste your time policing us and we can enjoy the game.
Commentating: I didn't mind pokebunny's voice after awhile no real complaints there, but he seemed to have a disproportionately large air time, one moment in particular stood out when he was struggling to describe Crystalized, and I kept thinking "We have the map creator commentating, why doesn't he do it." Another thing was the commentators kept stumbling over each other, trying to describe the same thing, maybe in future have two minute segments so you know who should be talking when, or just commentate more and learn when to pick up and trail off.
I was actually trying to butt in and say some more things, but it felt like Pokebunny was always talking(no offense poke lol) and I was having a hard time trying to jump in without us stumbling over eachother. That was one of my bigger issues too lol.
I tried to say something, but the 1-2 second delay in ventrilo made my voice not reach you until you had already started talking. then it just became a clusterfuck of voices lol
i have to agree with what ppl say about opponents not taking advantage of the handicaps. next arena you should probably look for more C'ish rank players becuz a lot of the games were still easy. only the 1st player took advantage of the handicap by going guardians and defilers.
you might also want to consider what someone said about the opponent picking the handicap. if they get to pick they most likely have a strategy in mind and that can possibly lead to a better/harder game.
On December 21 2009 14:30 nyokenusa wrote: i have to agree with what ppl say about opponents not taking advantage of the handicaps. next arena you should probably look for more C'ish rank players becuz a lot of the games were still easy. only the 1st player took advantage of the handicap by going guardians and defilers.
you might also want to consider what someone said about the opponent picking the handicap. if they get to pick they most likely have a strategy in mind and that can possibly lead to a better/harder game.
I would agree, but for the last games I had 3 C- guys lined up who didn't show up. I can't really help that =(
On December 21 2009 14:33 VIB wrote: I'm trying to watch the vod at livestream, but there's a big banner written TL ARENA III 9KST on top of everything. How do I watch without that?
People abusing chat - This made me really really sad. I'd originally wanted to turn off the chat but some LS malfunction wouldn't let me. In my experience LS chats are filled with idiots so on the one hand I reasoned go-here-on-own-risk and use zeroboy if it annoys you. There were however some very abusive people that I did try to ban but LS wouldn't let me for some reason (I'm emailing them about that). The same happened with people joining our games unwanted.
Ah, I see. There were quite a few idiots in the chat that needed the banhammer, but if it wasn't working then there's not much you can do. Was still an entertaining enough stream, thanks to all for putting it on.
On December 21 2009 14:33 VIB wrote: I'm trying to watch the vod at livestream, but there's a big banner written TL ARENA III 9KST on top of everything. How do I watch without that?
I can't watch it without the banner.
The banner will go away by itself after a couple of minutes? The actualy show doesn't start until like 5-8 minutes in.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Pholon/final2.jpg)
Click the spoiler below for results!![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Ticon_small.png)
Nyoken < Outsider > ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Zicon_small.png)
JegsUger![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Picon_small.png)
DarthThienAn![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Pholon/bottom2_copy.jpg)
