Very exciting matchup. Both teams are really good + Show Spoiler +
"Depth"
and have numerous ace choices. If it gets to ace, it will be a very interesting choice for both teams. (If it also gets to ace, sAviOr would have played :D).
On October 11 2009 04:18 Dice wrote: - You've succeeded in advancing to MSL 2 times in a row. ▲ I don't feel that emotional. I want to do better on Proleague than MSL. It'll be good if I do well on both though. However, Proleague is worth more to me than individual leagues.
- So you didn't practice that much for today's match? ▲ I practiced harder for tomorrow's Proleague match. For Survivor, I prepared by using the practice that I did during the Offline Preliminaries whenever I had spare time.
Movie demonstrated fantastic micro last night. Considering his past games against Jaedong with very well planned strategies, I hope and believe his match against Calm tonight will be epic. I'm also eager to see how FrOzean, Iris and sAviOr have changed over the interim.
On October 11 2009 05:03 StalinRusH wrote: Hero > Effort Frozean < Iris Calm > Movie (Calm has an interesting play style that i think movie will have problems with) Kal > Savior
This man has nicely summed up what I was about to write. Go STX!
Effort is favored in first second match is a toss-up, because Frozean is still not really a determinable player. Third Calm is favorite Kal is favorite in fourth as well.
On October 11 2009 05:45 Zozma wrote: I don't understand why everyone is predicting Calm < Movie... I'd say Calm is going to rape him.
Because Calms ZvP is overrated and Movies PvZ is his best matchup. Calm is very solid, but he hasn't beaten anyone really significant or in a series ZvP... it will be close if anything.. unless you count beating best 2-1 as "ZvP that rapes Movie"
Disciple - Amazing OP, really. Not just in the raw photoshop work but in the actual thought behind the design and use of color and everything - really well done and looks great.
I was wondering where you got the proleague logo (i.e. the big word PROLEAGUE in special font) in such a nice, neatly cut way - I cant find any good examples to cut from! Is there anyway you could send me that layer? I'm working on the Oz vs Hite thread and i'd like for it to include the same "PROLEAGUE / Teamliquid coverage" info as yours.
This looks to be a good match, seems pretty likely to go to ace. Movie vs Calm is gonna be awesome I agree with Effort over Hero; Iris over Frozean; Calm over Movie but I think sAviOr vs Kal is going to be close
On October 11 2009 09:39 cUrsOr wrote: I remember watching Kal 2 gate rush sAviOr on Andromeda. Needless to say, sAviOr lost... I'm dieing to see him dish out some comeuppance.
KaL's PvZ is his best matchup. Kal and Free are some of the only tosses who regularly took games off of Jaedong himself.
On October 11 2009 09:39 cUrsOr wrote: I remember watching Kal 2 gate rush sAviOr on Andromeda. Needless to say, sAviOr lost... I'm dieing to see him dish out some comeuppance.
KaL's PvZ is his best matchup. Kal and Free are some of the only tosses who regularly took games off of Jaedong himself.
his PvZ is not his best matchup. It's probably PvT right now. His PvZ was really good in 2008, but after the fall of the dragons Kal's PvZ has been really bad. I fucking LOVE kal, but even I can see his PvZ just ain't hot any more. Honestly savior vs kal is 50/50 IMO, since savior's only good MU any more is ZvP and generally zergs just straight up beat protoss nowadays.
I think STX are high for playing FrOzean instead of Hwasin, and I think CJ are sniffing glue when playing sAviOr instead of sKyHigh... Still, all these games look to be very entertaining.
I would love for CJ to win because of my fantasy team. But I like Calm better than Effort, so if it comes down to ace match, I'm going to be very frustrated since I can't decide
On October 11 2009 06:16 ccou wrote: Frozean went 0-12 last SEASON. Iris just won GOM silver and is 11th in ELO, Iris is the favorite in the second game.
Effort, Calm, and Kal are the favorites in the other matchs, but their opponents are all respectable.
EDIT: forgot the silver
No one is a favorite against Frozean except Frozean, he's so wildly uneven that I don't know what to make of him.
how do you login to chat through the u.zeroboy link? I have a justin tv chat account but it doesnt login properly through the zeroboy interface for some reason?
On October 11 2009 13:14 mog87 wrote: how do you login to chat through the u.zeroboy link? I have a justin tv chat account but it doesnt login properly through the zeroboy interface for some reason?
On October 11 2009 13:14 mog87 wrote: how do you login to chat through the u.zeroboy link? I have a justin tv chat account but it doesnt login properly through the zeroboy interface for some reason?
EffOrt's micro is out of control. Huge advantage now.
GG
Recap: Essentially, while by.hero was usually a few seconds ahead, EffOrt slowly gained a ling edge, and in a matter of seconds obtained a crucial muta edge with some great scourge dodging. Then he killed most/all of by.hero's drones. GG.
On October 11 2009 13:25 darktreb wrote: Even though there has been too many of them proportionally, ZvZ has turned into SUCH a fun matchup to watch between high level players.
I think Battle Royal is actually responsible for this, it forced so many of the teams to focus more on ZvZ.
OP... pictures are great and all, but if you aren't going to update it, don't make it. It's frustrating for someone like me who goes out on a Saturday to come back and find that results aren't updated...
WOW hts kill a bunch of mutas, and mutas get like 1-2 ht in response, nice flank by calm though, cleans up the push, movie is behind now, lost his shuttles and reavers, and doesnt have his third.
I think he's seen the burrow, but calm has ALOT of hydras and his mutas are still alive, picks off another HT, movie getting 4th, but needs to cancel for mutas.
Movie can be so brilliant for most of the game, but it seems like most games he plays nowadays he has that one moment where he makes a bad judgment call, throws away an army, and loses a large advantage. GG by both players for sure though
Definately recommend this game, Movie was ahead by quite a bit and had some great play, but the mistake of attacking without storms + Calm's crazy macro won him the game, he must've gone crazy drone heavy at one point after all that harass.
On October 11 2009 14:27 Ideas wrote: OMG THAT WAS THE BEST PVZ OF THE YEAR
I thought the game was great but one can overestimate everything. Lets be fair, Calm's burrow was awkwardly fucking late, his harass defence was pretty pretty bad and so was his storm dodging. He was good at holding on and being clutch as fuck with mutalisks tho and he obviously had good macro.
But best PvZ of the year? Do you ever watch Bisu or Jaedong play? T_T
On October 11 2009 14:29 King K. Rool wrote: Definately recommend this game, Movie was ahead by quite a bit and had some great play, but the mistake of attacking without storms + Calm's crazy macro won him the game, he must've gone crazy drone heavy at one point after all that harass.
If you wait for storm, Zerg has even more units. His timing was good. He didn't reinforce proper enough with zealots tho.
On October 11 2009 14:29 King K. Rool wrote: Definately recommend this game, Movie was ahead by quite a bit and had some great play, but the mistake of attacking without storms + Calm's crazy macro won him the game, he must've gone crazy drone heavy at one point after all that harass.
If you wait for storm, Zerg has even more units. His timing was good. He didn't reinforce proper enough with zealots tho.
Yes, well probably should've kept his sairs alive to save his HT.
On October 11 2009 14:27 Ideas wrote: OMG THAT WAS THE BEST PVZ OF THE YEAR
I thought the game was great but one can overestimate everything. Lets be fair, Calm's burrow was awkwardly fucking late, his harass defence was pretty pretty bad and so was his storm dodging. He was good at holding on and being clutch as fuck with mutalisks tho and he obviously had good macro.
But best PvZ of the year? Do you ever watch Bisu or Jaedong play? T_T
Ya I'm not even sure that was the best PvZ that involved Movie in the last 2 days
On October 11 2009 14:29 King K. Rool wrote: Definately recommend this game, Movie was ahead by quite a bit and had some great play, but the mistake of attacking without storms + Calm's crazy macro won him the game, he must've gone crazy drone heavy at one point after all that harass.
If you wait for storm, Zerg has even more units. His timing was good. He didn't reinforce proper enough with zealots tho.
all Movie had to do was move earlier to his nat, when he knew that bottom right was going down.Instead he went there, stood for some time while his nex was being destroyed, and decided to counter, too late, unfortunately.
On October 11 2009 14:28 p4NDemik wrote: Movie can be so brilliant for most of the game, but it seems like most games he plays nowadays he has that one moment where he makes a bad judgment call, throws away an army, and loses a large advantage. GG by both players for sure though
It has to do with his inexperience, he has a total of 47 game and is 23-24. I've noticed that he improved in his strategy since his loss in the MSL, but still makes reckless risks like you said. Overtime he'll be a top protoss player.
No beesuit build, scourge get a sair. 3-4 gates, Archon morphing, he's going for a timing attack. 2 Archons right now, MJY has lurkers, and sunken in nat, same in third.
Cows way too late, what was he doing with all of that gas, now hes countering but it won't be enough. He's lost alot of drones to drop and his main and nat are destroyed, no more hive tech.
On October 11 2009 15:02 viewer wrote: ................................. GG :| No skyhigh!
Please refain from posting "GG" posts with no other content, specifically when the game is still going on and GG hasn't been typed. Yes, the game might be decided, but it is not over. These kinds of posts are very frustrating and confusing to those who can't watch live and rely on these threads to follow a game. Thank you.
I don't understand why Savior limited himself to only engaging with zerglings throughout the entire midgame, but perhaps we shouldn't be surprised that it led to his defeat.
Not sure what happened, maybe that push + drop did more damage to his min count than I thought and delayed his cows. Also he got a defiler, but did trade it and some lings for a reaver, probably not worth it though.
On October 11 2009 15:05 Zozma wrote: I don't understand why Savior limited himself to only engaging with zerglings throughout the entire midgame, but perhaps we shouldn't be surprised that it led to his defeat.
^This. I'm no Z expert but it doesn't seem like it should take 19 mins to reach Ultra/defiler =/
Savior seemed to play so well... and yet his good macro never kicked in unit-wise. He just massed zerglings. Zerg has done so well with hydra/muta switches in ZvP lately, and so utterly terrible with lurkerling.
That was a decent game by Savior. Most P would probably have lost - that elevator was brilliant and won Kal the game. At that moment it was 4 base Zerg versus 2 base Protoss ... invincible 2006 Savior would have had his Scourge in place to block that elevator (he always did somehow) but that's a pretty unreasonable standard. He'll never be like that again.
I think Savior can be a decent player this season.
On October 11 2009 15:14 darktreb wrote: That was a decent game by Savior. Most P would probably have lost - that elevator was brilliant and won Kal the game. At that moment it was 4 base Zerg versus 2 base Protoss ... invincible 2006 Savior would have had his Scourge in place to block that elevator (he always did somehow) but that's a pretty unreasonable standard. He'll never be like that again.
I think Savior can be a decent player this season.
Sounds about right, he was really ahead at that point, however I think he could've done better later on if he had cows quicker or used defilers better.
BTW King_Cobrafighter (on zeroby) posted a link for that crazy music video:
To be honest, Savior just need some practice to get back. And yeah I agree with scourge on the elevator thing. He just need to re-polish himself. I am not giving up on him yet.
On October 11 2009 15:17 cascades wrote: The mutas were probably the reason he had no gas. I was shocked to see only one cow after him spamming lings for so long.
he was on 4/5 bases most of the time, should have had enough gas to build anything - but no, we only saw lings
On October 11 2009 15:17 cascades wrote: The mutas were probably the reason he had no gas. I was shocked to see only one cow after him spamming lings for so long.
Yeah.. but 4 base mining gas > 1100 min. I didn't see any extra lurkers other than the ones he built earlier, and he made minimal scourge.
Only good thing I saw from that stream was Wannabe by Epik High. Video is so sick haha I love Epik High. Made no sense at all, but it's soooooo entertaining =]
On October 11 2009 14:27 Ideas wrote: OMG THAT WAS THE BEST PVZ OF THE YEAR
I thought the game was great but one can overestimate everything. Lets be fair, Calm's burrow was awkwardly fucking late, his harass defence was pretty pretty bad and so was his storm dodging. He was good at holding on and being clutch as fuck with mutalisks tho and he obviously had good macro.
But best PvZ of the year? Do you ever watch Bisu or Jaedong play? T_T
I still don't understand why savior had so few units all game long. He must have had close to 50 drones and 6 hatches when Kal arrived with his 8 zeal/2 archon force. Had he just produced hydras then from all those hatches he would've been in a great position.
On October 11 2009 16:36 InFiNitY[pG] wrote: I still don't understand why savior had so few units all game long. He must have had close to 50 drones and 6 hatches when Kal arrived with his 8 zeal/2 archon force. Had he just produced hydras then from all those hatches he would've been in a great position.
He was doing well with the lings, shutting down expos and what not, but I agree 100%. Not making hydras, or at least supplementing the mass of lings with more lurkers, was a fatal mistake. By the time he got ultralisks out, the game was basically over.
On October 11 2009 14:27 Ideas wrote: OMG THAT WAS THE BEST PVZ OF THE YEAR
I thought the game was great but one can overestimate everything. Lets be fair, Calm's burrow was awkwardly fucking late, his harass defence was pretty pretty bad and so was his storm dodging. He was good at holding on and being clutch as fuck with mutalisks tho and he obviously had good macro.
But best PvZ of the year? Do you ever watch Bisu or Jaedong play? T_T
Ya I'm not even sure that was the best PvZ that involved Movie in the last 2 days
rofl
yeah movie vs saint was pretty good too, but I felt like that game saint just rolled over and died during the last 10 minutes or so (i mean he spent HOW LONG trying to defend reaver harass with just ultraling?).
this game was SO CLOSE for SO LONG. I can't even remember a PvZ being this fun to watch in a while (especially since almost all them are really 1-sided).
JD and Bisu haven't had a good game vs each other all year except maybe game one on andro from gom special match. every other game of their's was totally 1-sided.
and by good game I mean entertaining game.
maybe it's just been too long since there were a lot of SC games but that game was fucking awesome and trumps any 2009 pvz in my memory.
Why are there no recommended games? Okay, the mirrors were just ok, but the other two games were baller.
Also, I'm thinking CJ may be looking at going double-Terran if they want to win a lot. sAviOr played okay against really good play from Kal, but I'm not convinced it'll be enough - and I'm not sure about the rest of CJ's Zergs.
On October 11 2009 15:08 Avidkeystamper wrote: I just realized that I invested so much in CJ. Sighs.
It's too early in the season to say that you wasted it, who knows? Some teams have bad early starts, look at how badly SKT1 was doing in round 1 last year.
But if anything, this does go to show that Savior, much as some people predict, does indeed have the best ZvP that would've easily taken down any Protoss during the Proleague playoffs.
whew im glad i didn't go for Iris in my fantasy team, thought about it for long, somehow saw this coming. well i still had movie losing but i heard he played well, playing well is worth the 1 point i put into him right? ;p
2-port wraith > 1-port wraith. Also he was fantastic with sniping dropships. Weirdest: Frozean didn't build a single dropship the entire game.
He probably sat down with Hwasin to practice and Hwasin told him that he's terrible, terrible with dships and should just skip them until he learns how to use them properly.
calm vs movie game was amazing and ya skyhigh is baller in tvt dont kno why they didnt send him , iris is alot better tvz and tvp imo. and savior should took note from the calm game and build mass hydras
On October 12 2009 07:35 Weaponx3 wrote: calm vs movie game was amazing and ya skyhigh is baller in tvt dont kno why they didnt send him , iris is alot better tvz and tvp imo. and savior should took note from the calm game and build mass hydras
Well, as far as I know, you don't get to pick if you want to send him out on a TvT or not, if the other team is going to pick a certain race, you don't know until you've already chosen your player as well. Also, historically, Iris was most known for his solid TvT.
On October 12 2009 07:35 Weaponx3 wrote: calm vs movie game was amazing and ya skyhigh is baller in tvt dont kno why they didnt send him , iris is alot better tvz and tvp imo. and savior should took note from the calm game and build mass hydras
Iris was always considered as TvT beast and thus it was his best matchup for a very long period.