This is going to be a very short guide on hotkeys. I'm trying to be clear more than anything else. This guide should help T and Z players. But the examples I will give will be P centric. This is the best hotkey setup I know of. Better players may know better ways. I'm open to discussion.
A keyboard stance is a certain position on the keyboard where you put your hands. The basic typing stance is pinky to pointer a-f on your left hand. A basic P keyboard stance is your middle finger on 0 and your pointer on P. You switch stances when you "lift" or more accurately "slide" your hand. If you just move "up and down," or just move your fingers, you're in the same stance.
When I say hotkeys, I'm referring the keyboard minus f2, f3, and f4.
My basic hotkey setup is 1, 2, 3, units. 4, 5, 6, 7, gateways. 8, 9, 0, nexus. 7 rob bay or stargate. And 4 becomes units when I need it. When I give examples it will be with this setup
When I refer to fingers on your left hand, from left to right, they are pinky, ring, middle, then pointer.
If you press alt then a number, you fly to it, as if you double tapped.
Let's say you click on a gateway with the intention of building a goon. Now that you've clicked on it, you can only do ONE thing with your hotkeys. Press d. If you select your gateway with a hotkey press, as opposed to a mouse click, then build with another press, that's TWO hotkey presses. 4, then d. Finally, to build a gateway with hotkeys, you select a probe, press b, then g, then use your left pinky to press shift and click back on the minerals. That's THREE button presses.
Let's apply my axiom to building that gateway. I press b with my pointer, g with my middle, then shift with my pinky. Three different fingers for three different hotkey presses.
This is an application of the above axiom. It'd be great if there was bpshiftbacktominerals key, but there isn't. Using three fingers cuts down the time between the button presses. Lifting your fingers wastes time. And if you have to lift your hand that takes even more time. Which is what you do if you don't use different fingers.
Double tapping is quick, though. You don't have to move your finger at all. Just lift it. However, when you're in your "economy stance," with your middle on 0 and pointer on P, your thumb is always on alt. So you can press alt 0 faster then 0 lift finger then 0. Hotkey three nexuses in a custom game, then try to double tap between them. Then try to alt 098 between them. You'll see the speed difference.
I'll get more into alt keys later
5) When you need to do something with hotkeys, choose a keyboard stance which lets you use as many different fingers to do something with your hotkeys as you can WITHOUT MOVING YOUR HAND+ Show Spoiler +
This axiom is a common-sense expansion of 2. Let's say I'm building a pylon. What should my keyboard stance be? Well, what keyboard stance will allow you press all three buttons (b, p, then shift back to minerals) without lifting your hand? Your basic middle on 0, pointer on p stance. You rotate your pinky a bit down to the p without lifting your hand, then tap p with your pointer, then shift back to your minerals with your right thumb. Tasteless talks about this in his guide.
Applying these axioms will lead you to these P keyboard stances.
already talked about this one. Far right of the keyboard. Middle finger on 0, pointer on p. Ring on 9, pinky on 8. Thumb on alt.
Obviously the focus of this stance is building probes. Your thumb stays on alt. Which lets you fly around your nexuses and send probes to work. 0 middle finger, 9 ring finger, 8 pinky.
You can build pylons from this stance. Rotate your pinky down to P, press p with your pointer, then shift to minerals with your right thumb. Tasteless explains how this is right in his secrets of the progamer keyboard series.
You can build your cyb core from this position too, pinky rotates to b, ring finger goes to y.
You can build a nexus by rotating your pinky down to b, along with your whole hand, scrunching it up so yo hit nexus with your ring, and you can shift with your thumb.
You can almost build cannons from this stance. You need to slide your ring finger to b, then press c with your pinky. Same deal for rob supp bay. Pinky to v, ring to b.
You can also patrol attack, but none of your groups will be on 098 so it's only good for early game harrass.
Finally, you can build corsairs from this stance. Pinky stretches to 7, pointer hits o.
Here, there are two stances which are very close to each other.
1) Pure goons. Put your ring on 4, middle on 5, pointer on 6. Pointer presses beyond 6 if you have gateways that high. Your pinky is on d. Thumb on or near alt
2) Goons and lots. This might be the best stance to use for beginners. It breaks axiom 3 (use as many fingers as possible) if you're only going to build goons, but you might not want to think too much about where to place your hand while playing. Middle on 4. Ring on d. Pinky on z. Pointer on 5. Pointer presses from 5 up (instead of 6, so you lose some time.)
3) High templar. Templars should always be built out of 4 and 5. That's because templars are built with your pointer on t. Ring on 4 then pointer t, middle on 5 then pointer t. Your pinky can stay on d or z, so that when you hit 6, you can start pressing d or z with your pinky then move your pointer to 6 and 7 and so on.
You know how to do this! Ring on 1, pinky on a, middle on 2, pointer on 3. GG.You also bind 1-wherever you feel comfortable stretching your pointer to from here, with pinky on ctrl.
Three stances. Simple. Sure, there are things you can't do with these stances. Like build DT. Or build an assim. But you know my axioms. You can figure it out! Just make sure you can get into these three stances quickly after.
What the hell... yeah, don't worry about understanding this picture until you read the below.
Obviously, you're going to need to switch between these stances often. And luckily for you, it's really easy. If you you alt with your left thumb then you must hit 4 with your RING. NOT YOUR PINKY. Use your left thumb as a pivot. Then you can switch right into the goon stance described above. Ring on four, pinky on D. You can get into your goon lot stance too, if you rotate your middle to four.
So, you can fly around, build probes, then start macroing, at very high speeds. Late game, when you're not building units, and instead you're building "waves," you should still hit 4 with your ring so you can click gates and tap d without moving anymore.
Essentially, your left thumb stays on alt all game. You PIVOT with your left thumb from macro stance to econ stance and back. Yes a toss has to build gates and forges, bind units, and the like, But when macroing and econing, keep it on alt.
So... while I describe econ stance and 1a2a3a and macro stance as different stances... they're really just on stance! PIVOT ON ALT! If you have big hands, you can even 1a2a3a. Try it! Put your left thumb on alt, pinky on 8, then slide your fingers to left until your ring hits 4 and pinky d, then keep sliding until your ring hits 1 and your pinky a. Your middle finger will glide over the fkeys while your at it!!! Making it into one movement will help you learn how to go b/w them. Does the picture make sense now? Three stances can be accessed in one movement.
No, it won't be this smooth in the game. You'll have to build a gateway, then lose alt as a pivot. Then you'll have to stance switch. Just find your alt pivot, then find the rest of your keys, and you'll be good. Remember to be smart! Don't stance switch into the stance which is easiest to find (probably econ for you). Stance switch into the stance you need! Normally, though, probes are the most pressing concern. If you have to always return to a stance, econ stance isn't bad. Better than 1a2a3a.
You 098 as screens. You have f2, f3, and f4 as screens. You also have where your units are as screens. That's all you need. You don't need to scroll anywhere. Put your tech above your nexus (so your probes don't get mixed up) so when you go to your nexus, you see your tech. Or maybe have a tech f3 screen. No need to scroll.
Don't waste your f-keys on nexuses. Why do you go to them? To build probes. Thus, you'll be in your econ stance. Thus, you'll be able to alt to them as fast as hell. The only exception is PVP when reaver drops are common. In this case, you might be in the macro stance, where the fkeys are closer than alt and 09.
You've heard this before. F3 gates. F4 choke. F2 upgrades and tech. To set quick rallies you f2 to your gates, f3 to your choke, then right click, then f2 back. It'll come quick if you do it in a custom game for awhile. But why isn't alt 5good enough, you ask, my dear reader? Well if you're in a macro stance, or the 1a2a3a stance, f2 and 3 are closer. Use your head.
It's useless in getting into any of the above three stances. Only use it if you're on the left side of the keyboard, and don't have your left thumb on the right alt. Very few uses It eats up your pinky, which you just can't afford to waste.
That's all I got. Hope you enjoyed. If you know better, please tell me. I've been trying to learn the hotkeys for a long time.
If you want hear some of the stuff that inspired me to write this dumb guide, check out
On April 24 2009 11:16 LordWeird wrote: I appreciate the effort, but isn't this basically everything that Day says in his podcasts?
I listened to them. And they are great. But I think I got much more into how to fly around the keyboard as a toss. And made alot of the stuff very explicit. Though definitely some overlap, you're right. And he was the reason I wrote this.
You know, I had never considered to use other fingers than my middle when 1a2a3aing.
Even as I typed that, I had my middle finger on 1 and my thumb on a, then moved my middle finger sequentially down the row, with my middle finger on the numbers.
1a2a3a (with your fingering) is going to take some getting used to.
Actually, I think I'll stick with 1a2a3a4a5a with my old. I can do it so much faster.
On April 24 2009 11:27 Empyrean wrote: You know, I had never considered to use other fingers than my middle when 1a2a3aing.
Even as I typed that, I had my middle finger on 1 and my thumb on a, then moved my middle finger sequentially down the row, with my middle finger on the numbers.
1a2a3a (with your fingering) is going to take some getting used to.
Actually, I think I'll stick with 1a2a3a4a5a with my old. I can do it so much faster.
lulz. Useless post.
Thumb on a, middle on 1... that is awful. You're fingers are so far away from everything. You have to stop! Listen to day9.
Essentially, your right thumb stays on alt all game. You PIVOT with your right thumb from macro stance to econ stance and back. Yes a toss has to build gates and forges, bind units, and the like, But when macroing and econing, keep it on alt.
What?! Your right thumb should be nowhere near the keyboard :O
Essentially, your right thumb stays on alt all game. You PIVOT with your right thumb from macro stance to econ stance and back. Yes a toss has to build gates and forges, bind units, and the like, But when macroing and econing, keep it on alt.
What?! Your right thumb should be nowhere near the keyboard :O
But something I don't like right right off you say the advice is not good for 'ultra high level'. I would rather have something relevant to all players.
Towards that end would be to provide alternatives and give advantages/disadvantages to different ways of doing things rather than writing a guide were certain preferences dominate.
No top player now uses 098keys for nexus, yet your guide has this as the norm, why? For instance it seems less awkward to me to do 5d6d7d with index and ring, unless perhaps going to high numbers.
"bg" for build gate with pinkey and ring is just obnoxious, i would not even include that. Thumb and index is easier.
It may be less awkward to do 1a2a3a with ring on 1 then use ring for a also. The difference is negligible, but that is only comfortable for me up to 6, while pinky up to 8, but both can stretch another key. When do you have 6keys of units as toss though?
On April 24 2009 12:42 Knickknack wrote: good basic information.
But something I don't like right right off you say the advice is not good for 'ultra high level'. I would rather have something relevant to all players.
Towards that end would be to provide alternatives and give advantages/disadvantages to different ways of doing things rather than writing a guide were certain preferences dominate.
No top player now uses 098keys for nexus, yet your guide has this as the norm, why? For instance it seems less awkward to me to do 5d6d7d with index and ring, unless perhaps going to high numbers.
"bg" for build gate with pinkey and ring is just obnoxious, i would not even include that. Thumb and index is easier.
It may be less awkward to do 1a2a3a with ring on 1 then use ring for a also. The difference is negligible, but that is only comfortable for me up to 6, while pinky up to 8, but both can stretch another key. When do you have 6keys of units as toss though?
And so on.
I say it's not for ultra high because I'm not that good. This is the way I do it. But I know people are better. I'd love to learn better. Maybe I've mastered hks. But I doubt it.
I have no idea why people don't hk nexus to 09 explain it to me. I don't think they do. I've argued this a million times. Nobody has ever explained why.
You're right about pinky gate build. I don't think thumb and index is the best though. I like my thumb on alt.
On April 24 2009 11:27 Empyrean wrote: You know, I had never considered to use other fingers than my middle when 1a2a3aing.
Even as I typed that, I had my middle finger on 1 and my thumb on a, then moved my middle finger sequentially down the row, with my middle finger on the numbers.
1a2a3a (with your fingering) is going to take some getting used to.
Actually, I think I'll stick with 1a2a3a4a5a with my old. I can do it so much faster.
lulz. Useless post.
i always do middle finger for 1 and 2, 2nd finger for any other numbers to the right, and 4th finger for a. A habit from piano I suppose, as it just feels natural that way.
I don`t do anything similar to the way you do it.... I never use F keys or ALT either, and I do scroll all the time. In fact im pretty much doing the opposite of what your suggesting all the time
On April 24 2009 16:02 Oystein wrote: I don`t do anything similar to the way you do it.... I never use F keys or ALT either, and I do scroll all the time. In fact im pretty much doing the opposite of what your suggesting all the time
You should start using the F keys alot. My guess is that it will improve your play immensely pretty fast, and since you're already pretty good thats awesome^^
On April 24 2009 16:02 Oystein wrote: I don`t do anything similar to the way you do it.... I never use F keys or ALT either, and I do scroll all the time. In fact im pretty much doing the opposite of what your suggesting all the time
You should start using the F keys alot. My guess is that it will improve your play immensely pretty fast, and since you're already pretty good thats awesome^^
Yeah I know, iv tried a few times, but it feels so awkward to use them that I always give up on it after a game or 2. In general I don`t use my left hand very much when I play. Mostly just for moving my army and making units (while I select all the buildings with my mouse manually). My left hand just have an awful dexterity and I am the biggest right hand user I know of, like I can`t do shit with my left hand, say I have a glass or bottle or whatever on my left side I will move it to my right hand to drink from it
On April 24 2009 16:02 Oystein wrote: I don`t do anything similar to the way you do it.... I never use F keys or ALT either, and I do scroll all the time. In fact im pretty much doing the opposite of what your suggesting all the time
You should start using the F keys alot. My guess is that it will improve your play immensely pretty fast, and since you're already pretty good thats awesome^^
Yeah I know, iv tried a few times, but it feels so awkward to use them that I always give up on it after a game or 2. In general I don`t use my left hand very much when I play. Mostly just for moving my army and making units (while I select all the buildings with my mouse manually). My left hand just have an awful dexterity and I am the biggest right hand user I know of, like I can`t do shit with my left hand, say I have a glass or bottle or whatever on my left side I will move it to my right hand to drink from it
Wow. I would honestly try to start using your left hand 10x more for like 3 weeks. And I bet you'd move up in skill massively
I love my left hand But i think hand placement is really just preference. a millisecond, as much as we would like to believe it's that important, really isn't. I didn't even know you could do alt+hotkey, but all my hatches are hotkeyed, soo...
"I have no idea why people don't hk nexus to 09 explain it to me. I don't think they do. I've argued this a million times. Nobody has ever explained why."
Ok, it is simply a fact that bisu, janbi, kal, best, stork, pusan, do not use nexus on 098. free and much seem to use those keys sometimes to build probes, but it is not their main nexus key. Now the only thing is to find out why, and if it is more than simply preference. Here are some thoughts:
1) Your way you have two diff rent hand positions 'economy' to 'units' and have to switch between them. My way, you are not reaching all across the keyboard to switch positions constantly. If you look at it, the economy position is basically only good for building probes, and it does do that well. The point is if it is worth it. With nexus on 4, you only occasionally stretch to far numbers or p. 2)With nexus on 4 building probes with 4p as keys is only a stretch to hit p. With your two setups you have to constantly stretch between economy and units, so what is the difference anyway? It is easier to hit 1144 than 1100 to fly between nexus and units to check on them, but you have to be pretty accurate to hit 4 with index then p with index quickly. With 0p it is somewhat easier to build probes since 0 is close to p. 3) the difference between hitting 4key + use mouse to hit probe icon vs. using hand for 0-p or 4-p is negligible. Similar to how 55clickgoon66clickgoon77clickgoon vs 55d66d77d is.
Overall I would recommend something like janbi's 1for nexus and f2 for nat, or Bisus 4for nexus and f4for nat. But, not like it matters that much.
Also now that I I am in a game I realize it thumb index is annoying for bg also because thumb is just obnoxious and it is easy to hit space bar with thumb. Do index on b and middle on g.
I prefer F2 gates, F3 some nexus F4 some other nexus (main/natural early game, change them later). I don't usually find myself needing to rally a lot of gateways at once, but running workers or transferring them happens all the time.
This is the first time I've heard of using the alt key, but I could see myself hitting alt+f4, alt+q or alt+tab accidentally so I think I'll pass on that.
One thing that really helps me in PvZ is to hotkey templars to 4, 5, 6, 7. Since I have F2 for gateways anyway and units on 1,2,3.
On April 24 2009 23:41 Knickknack wrote: "I have no idea why people don't hk nexus to 09 explain it to me. I don't think they do. I've argued this a million times. Nobody has ever explained why."
Ok, it is simply a fact that bisu, janbi, kal, best, stork, pusan, do not use nexus on 098. free and much seem to use those keys sometimes to build probes, but it is not their main nexus key. Now the only thing is to find out why, and if it is more than simply preference. Here are some thoughts:
1) Your way you have two diff rent hand positions 'economy' to 'units' and have to switch between them. My way, you are not reaching all across the keyboard to switch positions constantly. If you look at it, the economy position is basically only good for building probes, and it does do that well. The point is if it is worth it. With nexus on 4, you only occasionally stretch to far numbers or p. 2)With nexus on 4 building probes with 4p as keys is only a stretch to hit p. With your two setups you have to constantly stretch between economy and units, so what is the difference anyway? It is easier to hit 1144 than 1100 to fly between nexus and units to check on them, but you have to be pretty accurate to hit 4 with index then p with index quickly. With 0p it is somewhat easier to build probes since 0 is close to p. 3) the difference between hitting 4key + use mouse to hit probe icon vs. using hand for 0-p or 4-p is negligible. Similar to how 55clickgoon66clickgoon77clickgoon vs 55d66d77d is.
Overall I would recommend something like janbi's 1for nexus and f2 for nat, or Bisus 4for nexus and f4for nat. But, not like it matters that much.
Also now that I I am in a game I realize it thumb index is annoying for bg also because thumb is just obnoxious and it is easy to hit space bar with thumb. Do index on b and middle on g.
I'll disagree w/ 3. I bet I could do a time test.
2 & 1
hmmm I see what you mean...
Give me your whole hk setup from 1-0 so I can think about. I see some problems... but I can't be sure until I know your setup.
@ Nytefish rip out all those keys. Read mylosttemples pro keyboard guide. Basically, buy a 10$ keyboard and take out those keys.
I really have to disagree that Pressing alt and then a number is faster then double clicking. 1. If what you mean is alt+0 to get to your nexus, than theres no diference in that and pressing 00 2. If you just press alt and it goes somewhere, it might be a bit more useful, but still it will save you .000001 second to move.
I'm pretty sure no progamers use the alt and spacebar because they can move their hands fast enough. If you don't have to think about where you move your hands while playing, you are all set tbh and it will become one with your mind
I disagree with the majority of your positions. Ring on 1 and pinky on a seems incredible jammed, especially if you are trying to line up middle and index as well.
Also, refering to it as your "retard" finger surely kills a lot of your credibility.
the only keys i use on my keyboard are the letters for the buildings/unit commands, shift to add units in my unit group + using shift for probes after they do an action so they come back automaticly and ctrl 1 - 0 for units only, i manually come back to my gates when i want to produce
I tried using the F keys for probe production. If I can get used to it from my instinct to 0p9p8p than it will be beneficial to me. It really does improve multitasking despite being oddly placed on the computer. You have to have high apm though because someone with 150 probably will fail at using F keys for probe production
Using alt seems totally pointless. Not only does double tapping take like 0.05 seconds longer than a single tap, but if you like me have alt on the right side of the windows key, you'll have to twist your hands really awkwardly. And the windows key is the other problem - if you are quickly switching from the left hand to the right hand side of the keyboard, you run the risk of tabbing out of the game for hardly any gain whatsoever. A lot of these things depends solely on how long your fingers are and how your keyboard looks anyway, so you can't standardize them.
On April 25 2009 05:06 Chill wrote: I disagree with the majority of your positions. Ring on 1 and pinky on a seems incredible jammed, especially if you are trying to line up middle and index as well.
Also, refering to it as your "retard" finger surely kills a lot of your credibility.
Oh it is jammed. And it takes time to get used. But I think it's fastest.
How do you 1a2a3a? I'm not sure if it's the best way. And I'd like to learn.
Edit:
copy paste, fine retard, replace w/ ring...
how many credibility points do i get? 100k? ??????
oh yeah, you kill your credibility by using passive sentences. Surely. And I am kidding. And I am really interested in you explaining why your 1a2a3a is faster. As you are a better player than me (though that doesn't neccesarily mean a better hker) And if you disagree with the majority of my positions, explain why you disagree with them!
On April 24 2009 16:02 Oystein wrote: I don`t do anything similar to the way you do it.... I never use F keys or ALT either, and I do scroll all the time. In fact im pretty much doing the opposite of what your suggesting all the time
i'm glad someone better said this first .
I didn't want to discourage people from reading this guide, but I did try using the F keys and avoid scrolling and I just can't adjust. And I never use my pinky, not even for the ctrl key. If I do use the pinky on ctrl I end up hitting caps lock with my ring finger
On April 25 2009 05:06 Chill wrote: I disagree with the majority of your positions. Ring on 1 and pinky on a seems incredible jammed, especially if you are trying to line up middle and index as well.
Also, refering to it as your "retard" finger surely kills a lot of your credibility.
I actually think its good. In the beginning, it might seem jammed, but try to slant your wrist abit to the left while doing it and it will soon come naturally and the handmovement and fingerswitchment(totally awesome word) is less complex than other handstances and can go with ease from 1-8.
There are other handstances that are better in terms of only using 1a2a but if you want one that is good for 1a2a3a4a++ I think this is the best option. 1a 2a is the most uncomfortable move with this handstance but it will come naturally after a while and if you get that down you can get faster and faster.
The retardissue I think is actually pretty funny, that finger is so stupid sometimes. Specially if you put your hand on the table with palm down and slant your longfinger underneath the palm so that the first joint above the knuckles is touching the table and then try to raise the remaining fingers upwards. All fingers will respond except the reatardfinger, because it never does what you tell it to do anyway.
Although you're correct that it might kill some credibility^^
Anyway, this is my point of view about the 1a2a3a4a matter. I have not read the rest of it so there might be alot of things I disagree with aswell but I tend not to get too mixed up with the other races.
On April 24 2009 16:02 Oystein wrote: I don`t do anything similar to the way you do it.... I never use F keys or ALT either, and I do scroll all the time. In fact im pretty much doing the opposite of what your suggesting all the time
i'm glad someone better said this first .
I didn't want to discourage people from reading this guide, but I did try using the F keys and avoid scrolling and I just can't adjust. And I never use my pinky, not even for the ctrl key. If I do use the pinky on ctrl I end up hitting caps lock with my ring finger
This doesn't change the fact that its better to use less complex and easier moves. If you practice something long enough its hard to change the way you do it, but that doesn't mean that the way your doing it is the best possible way. Sure you can play without using things like these aswell as you can play without using hotkeys at all, but if you master all the help you can get from hotkeys it will immensly improve your play.
So you never should discourage people from using hotkeys to your advantage, even if they sometimes take time to master.
F keys are so useful. I used to not use them but it took a while to practice on the computer to finally get it to be comfortable.
I used to do 4 click probe 5 click probe to make probes at my main and my natural, but the problem with this is that even if I made the probe, I neglected to actually go to the natural expansion screen to tell the newly built probes to start mining since I'd have to use my mouse to go to the minimap, precisely (hard) click on the natural expansion, then move my mouse back on to the screen to tell probes to mine, and that would take so much time. There are also other problems such as slow maynarding times, slow dodging if some guy drops your natural, no gateway hotkeys since 4,5 would be taken, 6 was taken by robo, 7 8 9 0 were too far...
I saw some Bisu fpvod and I realized he uses F keys for his expansions and he doesn't even hotkey any other nexuses other than the main (4). What he does is do 4p then F key to some natural or some other expo, click the nexus and press p. This was really hard to get used to but eventually, with a lot of practice against computers, it just felt a lot smoother. Your mouse is always on the screen so you move your right hand a bit less, but this also forces you to actually move your screen to your main and natural expansions from time to time. And since you already have F keys set up it's easier to maynard workers and dodge harass. Now that I don't use hotkeys 5 or 6 for nexuses I use them for gateways instead. I know stork's rallying method is to do control 5 6 7 8 9 sometimes 0 (stork uses 0 for robo) for 5/6 different gateways then do 5 right click 6 right click etc. on the ground somewhere else. Using F keys instead of hotkeys for my expansions allow me to do that, and now I actually use all 10 hotkeys.
On April 24 2009 16:02 Oystein wrote: I don`t do anything similar to the way you do it.... I never use F keys or ALT either, and I do scroll all the time. In fact im pretty much doing the opposite of what your suggesting all the time
i'm glad someone better said this first .
I didn't want to discourage people from reading this guide, but I did try using the F keys and avoid scrolling and I just can't adjust. And I never use my pinky, not even for the ctrl key. If I do use the pinky on ctrl I end up hitting caps lock with my ring finger
You need to use your pinky. And you need to use the fkeys. Honestly, I think Oystein is a fucking prodigy. And can go MASSIVELY UP in skill to absolute top foriegner if he does as he says.
And chill, I really want to hear how you 1a2a3a4a. And also how you disagree with my other postions. I've been thinking about hks for awhile, and mechanics in general, and I really want to know.
On April 26 2009 00:48 Kentor wrote: F keys are so useful. I used to not use them but it took a while to practice on the computer to finally get it to be comfortable.
I used to do 4 click probe 5 click probe to make probes at my main and my natural, but the problem with this is that even if I made the probe, I neglected to actually go to the natural expansion screen to tell the newly built probes to start mining since I'd have to use my mouse to go to the minimap, precisely (hard) click on the natural expansion, then move my mouse back on to the screen to tell probes to mine, and that would take so much time. There are also other problems such as slow maynarding times, slow dodging if some guy drops your natural, no gateway hotkeys since 4,5 would be taken, 6 was taken by robo, 7 8 9 0 were too far...
I saw some Bisu fpvod and I realized he uses F keys for his expansions and he doesn't even hotkey any other nexuses other than the main (4). What he does is do 4p then F key to some natural or some other expo, click the nexus and press p. This was really hard to get used to but eventually, with a lot of practice against computers, it just felt a lot smoother. Your mouse is always on the screen so you move your right hand a bit less, but this also forces you to actually move your screen to your main and natural expansions from time to time. And since you already have F keys set up it's easier to maynard workers and dodge harass. Now that I don't use hotkeys 5 or 6 for nexuses I use them for gateways instead. I know stork's rallying method is to do control 5 6 7 8 9 sometimes 0 (stork uses 0 for robo) for 5/6 different gateways then do 5 right click 6 right click etc. on the ground somewhere else. Using F keys instead of hotkeys for my expansions allow me to do that, and now I actually use all 10 hotkeys.
I am debating to change my probe production like Bisu too. How long exactly did it take you? I seem to be making almost no progress whatsoever although sometimes I can feel the smoothness and awsomeness of using F keys
On April 26 2009 00:48 Kentor wrote: F keys are so useful. I used to not use them but it took a while to practice on the computer to finally get it to be comfortable.
I used to do 4 click probe 5 click probe to make probes at my main and my natural, but the problem with this is that even if I made the probe, I neglected to actually go to the natural expansion screen to tell the newly built probes to start mining since I'd have to use my mouse to go to the minimap, precisely (hard) click on the natural expansion, then move my mouse back on to the screen to tell probes to mine, and that would take so much time. There are also other problems such as slow maynarding times, slow dodging if some guy drops your natural, no gateway hotkeys since 4,5 would be taken, 6 was taken by robo, 7 8 9 0 were too far...
I saw some Bisu fpvod and I realized he uses F keys for his expansions and he doesn't even hotkey any other nexuses other than the main (4). What he does is do 4p then F key to some natural or some other expo, click the nexus and press p. This was really hard to get used to but eventually, with a lot of practice against computers, it just felt a lot smoother. Your mouse is always on the screen so you move your right hand a bit less, but this also forces you to actually move your screen to your main and natural expansions from time to time. And since you already have F keys set up it's easier to maynard workers and dodge harass. Now that I don't use hotkeys 5 or 6 for nexuses I use them for gateways instead. I know stork's rallying method is to do control 5 6 7 8 9 sometimes 0 (stork uses 0 for robo) for 5/6 different gateways then do 5 right click 6 right click etc. on the ground somewhere else. Using F keys instead of hotkeys for my expansions allow me to do that, and now I actually use all 10 hotkeys.
I am debating to change my probe production like Bisu too. How long exactly did it take you? I seem to be making almost no progress whatsoever although sometimes I can feel the smoothness and awsomeness of using F keys
Can someone second the Bisu thing? Or at least link me a video of him doing it? I don't watch FPvods.
But... it seems like something worth putting 50 or so games into to try out
Hmmm. Let me get out my keyboard...
So what would be? Pinky on fkeys, pointer on p? Thumb would still be able to stick on alt. And its faster down from the fkeys to macro position than from my "econ" position... Easier to build gateways too. Left side of the keyboard is easier to get too...
Nearly everything is faster. But not probes 0p9p is faster than f2 click p. Could you compensate by starting probe 2 faster.... probes are the most important unit in the game... I'm definitely going to try this out though.Now that I understand it a bit better.
On April 26 2009 00:48 Kentor wrote: F keys are so useful. I used to not use them but it took a while to practice on the computer to finally get it to be comfortable.
I used to do 4 click probe 5 click probe to make probes at my main and my natural, but the problem with this is that even if I made the probe, I neglected to actually go to the natural expansion screen to tell the newly built probes to start mining since I'd have to use my mouse to go to the minimap, precisely (hard) click on the natural expansion, then move my mouse back on to the screen to tell probes to mine, and that would take so much time. There are also other problems such as slow maynarding times, slow dodging if some guy drops your natural, no gateway hotkeys since 4,5 would be taken, 6 was taken by robo, 7 8 9 0 were too far...
I saw some Bisu fpvod and I realized he uses F keys for his expansions and he doesn't even hotkey any other nexuses other than the main (4). What he does is do 4p then F key to some natural or some other expo, click the nexus and press p. This was really hard to get used to but eventually, with a lot of practice against computers, it just felt a lot smoother. Your mouse is always on the screen so you move your right hand a bit less, but this also forces you to actually move your screen to your main and natural expansions from time to time. And since you already have F keys set up it's easier to maynard workers and dodge harass. Now that I don't use hotkeys 5 or 6 for nexuses I use them for gateways instead. I know stork's rallying method is to do control 5 6 7 8 9 sometimes 0 (stork uses 0 for robo) for 5/6 different gateways then do 5 right click 6 right click etc. on the ground somewhere else. Using F keys instead of hotkeys for my expansions allow me to do that, and now I actually use all 10 hotkeys.
I am debating to change my probe production like Bisu too. How long exactly did it take you? I seem to be making almost no progress whatsoever although sometimes I can feel the smoothness and awsomeness of using F keys
Can someone second the Bisu thing? Or at least link me a video of him doing it? I don't watch FPvods.
But... it seems like something worth putting 50 or so games into to try out
Hmmm. Let me get out my keyboard...
So what would be? Pinky on fkeys, pointer on p? Thumb would still be able to stick on alt. And its faster down from the fkeys to macro position than from my "econ" position... Easier to build gateways too. Left side of the keyboard is easier to get too...
Nearly everything is faster. But not probes 0p9p is faster than f2 click p. Could you compensate by starting probe 2 faster.... probes are the most important unit in the game... I'm definitely going to try this out though.Now that I understand it a bit better.
at ~6:57 he does it very quickly and every time he makes a probe in the natural after that he does it. you can tell since he always click on the nexus and sets a rally point probably with a right click. also if you look at his replays he doesn't have hotkeys for any nexuses other than his main.
anyway i don't know which F key Bisu actually uses for his natural. but the way I do it is I use my middle finger for F2 and I do 4 (index) p (index) f2 (middle) click nexus, p (index) then go back to home position. Yeah there is the back and forth motion but it forces your hand to move around which is good i think!
Edit: Okay and I use F2 not because it's just F2 but because my middle finger is only a stretch away from that key when I'm at resting position (index at 4). I think that's what I was thinking. Also my second expansion would be F3 using my index finger which feels pretty natural as well.
Also try avoid using your pinky to hit the F keys after your index is already on P. I did this when I tried it out the first time but it felt very unnatural and less accurate, and it brings your hand out of position. Now I just do the back and forth thing mentioned above, and start the probes a little earlier. It took about maybe a week or more trying this out in single player and I dunno, it just feels pretty good now :D
On April 25 2009 05:06 Chill wrote: I disagree with the majority of your positions. Ring on 1 and pinky on a seems incredible jammed, especially if you are trying to line up middle and index as well.
Also, refering to it as your "retard" finger surely kills a lot of your credibility.
Oh it is jammed. And it takes time to get used. But I think it's fastest.
How do you 1a2a3a? I'm not sure if it's the best way. And I'd like to learn.
Edit:
copy paste, fine retard, replace w/ ring...
how many credibility points do i get? 100k? ??????
oh yeah, you kill your credibility by using passive sentences. Surely. And I am kidding. And I am really interested in you explaining why your 1a2a3a is faster. As you are a better player than me (though that doesn't neccesarily mean a better hker) And if you disagree with the majority of my positions, explain why you disagree with them!
All your stances have your hand contorted in strange positions. It may be the most efficient way to perform that one task, but curling your hand into that position every time you want to 1a2a3a is going to be very inefficient and cause a lot of errors.
(1) Middle (a) Ring (2) Middle (a) Ring (3) Middle/Index (a) Ring (4) Middle/Index (a) Pinky/Ring
This allows you to leave your hand perfectly flat. It may be slightly slower than your stance, but I don't have to twist my wrist around to tuck my pinky down to a - a huge plus.
Similarly look how you have your economy stance set up. I either need to curl my thumb around to rest my knuckle on alt, or twist my wrist (in the other direction from before) to get my thumb there.
(8) Ring (p) Index (9) Ring/Middle (p) Index (9) Middle (p) Index
This allowed you to again leave your hand flat. Further, you are rarely going to be doing 8p9p0p, so there's no point in making a stance that designs your hand to fit on 89 and 0 simulataneously. Ring/Middle on 90 is good enough and leaves your hand flat.
Your macro stance is fine.
(4) Middle (z/d/t) pinky/ring/index (5) Middle (z/d/t) pinky/ring/index (6) Index (z/d/t) pinky/ring/index (7) Index (z/d/t) pinky/ring/index
The key theme of your guide is to keep your thumb on alt all game, but you never explain why. Alt is rarely used in StarCraft, nevermind right alt. Why is it so pivotal to keep my thumb here? Trying to 1a2a3a while having my thumb stretched out like this tenses my fingers and makes them slower. I see no advantage to stretching my hand out while trying to do this.
Further, many of your stances have the key finger being the pinky, and the ring being important as well. These fingers are closely connected and are the least mobile of your fingers. Try to move your ring quickly without moving your pinky. It's awkard. Your stances should center on middle and index, with the ring used when necessary.
Keeping your handle in a natural, flattened position will help you much more than memorizing these stances that require awkward twists.
On April 25 2009 05:06 Chill wrote: I disagree with the majority of your positions. Ring on 1 and pinky on a seems incredible jammed, especially if you are trying to line up middle and index as well.
Also, refering to it as your "retard" finger surely kills a lot of your credibility.
Oh it is jammed. And it takes time to get used. But I think it's fastest.
How do you 1a2a3a? I'm not sure if it's the best way. And I'd like to learn.
Edit:
copy paste, fine retard, replace w/ ring...
how many credibility points do i get? 100k? ??????
oh yeah, you kill your credibility by using passive sentences. Surely. And I am kidding. And I am really interested in you explaining why your 1a2a3a is faster. As you are a better player than me (though that doesn't neccesarily mean a better hker) And if you disagree with the majority of my positions, explain why you disagree with them!
All your stances have your hand contorted in strange positions. It may be the most efficient way to perform that one task, but curling your hand into that position every time you want to 1a2a3a is going to be very inefficient and cause a lot of errors.
(1) Middle (a) Ring (2) Middle (a) Ring (3) Middle/Index (a) Ring (4) Middle/Index (a) Pinky/Ring
This allows you to leave your hand perfectly flat. It may be slightly slower than your stance, but I don't have to twist my wrist around to tuck my pinky down to a - a huge plus.
Similarly look how you have your economy stance set up. I either need to curl my thumb around to rest my knuckle on alt, or twist my wrist (in the other direction from before) to get my thumb there.
(8) Ring (p) Index (9) Ring/Middle (p) Index (9) Middle (p) Index
This allowed you to again leave your hand flat. Further, you are rarely going to be doing 8p9p0p, so there's no point in making a stance that designs your hand to fit on 89 and 0 simulataneously. Ring/Middle on 90 is good enough and leaves your hand flat.
Your macro stance is fine.
(4) Middle (z/d/t) pinky/ring/index (5) Middle (z/d/t) pinky/ring/index (6) Index (z/d/t) pinky/ring/index (7) Index (z/d/t) pinky/ring/index
The key theme of your guide is to keep your thumb on alt all game, but you never explain why. Alt is rarely used in StarCraft, nevermind right alt. Why is it so pivotal to keep my thumb here? Trying to 1a2a3a while having my thumb stretched out like this tenses my fingers and makes them slower. I see no advantage to stretching my hand out while trying to do this.
Further, many of your stances have the key finger being the pinky, and the ring being important as well. These fingers are closely connected and are the least mobile of your fingers. Try to move your ring quickly without moving your pinky. It's awkard. Your stances should center on middle and index, with the ring used when necessary.
Keeping your handle in a natural, flattened position will help you much more than memorizing these stances that require awkward twists.
Thanks for the response. I understand you better now.
1) on 1a2a3a. I wonder. Do Zerg's have anything like pinky on d, ring on 4, middle on 5, pointer on 6 to mass goons? This is the same position as 1a2a3a, but a slightly smaller wrist angle. I would argue that my way is better, and equally accurate, after you practice it. And, after all, if you weren't willing to play worse now to get better later, you'd still be mouse onlying?
2) on economy. I completely and utterly disagree with you on this. First, you 0p9p8p constantly. Have you ever played PVT? You'll almost always get 3 expos, and you'll always hk them. Same for PVZ when you fast expo. Or do you mean you'll never 0p9p8p? You'll do that tons. And when you won't, you'll 0 hmm already probes, 9, yeah it needs one, 8, yeah you too.
Plus, it's not just for probe macro. You hk your scout to 8, and your rush units to 8. So early game AND late game it's useful.
But thumb dexterity? WTF. You don't play video games?! (kidding). If you're uncomfortable stretching to alt, how the heck to do you reach ctrl? Again, I think you're taking the easy way out. Not trying something different because something is more comfortable for you now.
3) On ALT. I explained by why alt was important. In brief, it's faster than double tapping. And your right thumb is almost always there. Or at least after a bit of training it can be without any difficult. So because it's faster than double tapping, why NOT do it. Plus it's a good pivot. And helps you find your stances. for 1a2a3a... that's a stretch. I just want your thumb near it so when you move back to macro or econ you slide it back naturally. I might've worded that a bit incorrectly.
Awkward stance? Awkward is pinky on b ring on g. Learn how to power clean, or do some wrist stretches... or something, because there's nothing inherently awkward about my stances. I think you're just haivng beginner's trouble.
or... just as possibly maybe our keyboards are different, or our hands are different.... hmmm how put your thumb on ctrl and reach left as far as you can with your pinky. What's the last number key you can hit easily (like you would go hmmm my hand is on the right side and I gotta hk some zerglings lets do it!), and what's the last key you can hit PERIOD.
Oh yeah, tip for being able to hit 1a2a3a fast like I said; make most of your passwords Qwe1Qwe1 :-)
On April 29 2009 19:38 Wimps wrote: 1a2a3a, why the a in there? what does it do >_>
If you select your unit group ie."1" then press "a" you can then left-click on an area on the minimap or the main screen for your units to "attack-move" to.
So technically it should be "1a*click*2a*click*3a*click*, but that's just very long to type.
So attack-move is basicly, they just move to a spot and when they encounter an enemy they attack it? and if you just move it (right-click) then they'll move to that spot without attacking?
On April 29 2009 22:27 Wimps wrote: So attack-move is basicly, they just move to a spot and when they encounter an enemy they attack it? and if you just move it (right-click) then they'll move to that spot without attacking?
On April 29 2009 22:27 Wimps wrote: So attack-move is basicly, they just move to a spot and when they encounter an enemy they attack it? and if you just move it (right-click) then they'll move to that spot without attacking?
AMIRITE? :D
Yes, exactly.
I don't think I get it... could somebody write a guide?
... I guess... we all got to start somewhere.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
Yo buddy down there, alt + number key =s double tap
EPT![[image loading]](http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=econposition.png)
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![[image loading]](http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1a2a3a.png)
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