[I] PvZ - Armor before attack upgrade? - Page 2

On August 20 2008 11:54 Rucky wrote:
Rather than thinking about the battle actually happening, I'm thinking about the situation that would come up. The +1 weapon upgrade from p will scare z into not engaging with the p army. This gives the p army more map control to expand and also protect their hts and reavers. On the other hand, the +1 armor upgrade from p will allow z to be more aggressive knowing their units won't die as fast. Z also knows that p units won't die as fast as well. That might give the z the idea to not attack the p units that don't deal much damage anyway and go straight for picking off the hts and reavers. Z will just harass the hell out of p. Basically, +1 weapon = p plays offensively and +1 armor = p plays defensively. And when p is offensive, z will be defensive and vice versa. Now if we look at normal pvz, p should be the one playing offensive by not allowing z to expand and taking expos themselves. If p lets z play offensive, eventually it doesn't matter about upgrades, z will run p over with tons of expos and tons of units.

On August 20 2008 11:54 Rucky wrote:
Rather than thinking about the battle actually happening, I'm thinking about the situation that would come up. The +1 weapon upgrade from p will scare z into not engaging with the p army. This gives the p army more map control to expand and also protect their hts and reavers. On the other hand, the +1 armor upgrade from p will allow z to be more aggressive knowing their units won't die as fast. Z also knows that p units won't die as fast as well. That might give the z the idea to not attack the p units that don't deal much damage anyway and go straight for picking off the hts and reavers. Z will just harass the hell out of p. Basically, +1 weapon = p plays offensively and +1 armor = p plays defensively. And when p is offensive, z will be defensive and vice versa. Now if we look at normal pvz, p should be the one playing offensive by not allowing z to expand and taking expos themselves. If p lets z play offensive, eventually it doesn't matter about upgrades, z will run p over with tons of expos and tons of units.

On August 20 2008 12:42 A3iL3r0n wrote:


Wha?

On August 20 2008 13:02 ShmotZ wrote:
why doesnt p go dual ups then? x2 better i know it slows everything else down but ...idk just a thought

On August 20 2008 13:44 dream-_- wrote:
zerg going +1 attack would be like OMGTYSIRLOLIWINNOWKTHX

On August 19 2008 16:23 Kwark wrote:
It gives you a fairly significant advantage in zee vs ling wars. When combined with their natural 1 armour it makes them recieve 1/4 less damage from lings. The ling +1 armour doesn't change a thing with regard to anything else so while darks not 1 hit killing drones is annoying it's acceptable. Basically it stops them using lings earlyish, especially if you can get +2. Also it allows a fairly odd version of the +1 timing attack although imo it's easily nullified by the zerg going hydra. If you're doing a +1 timing attack against a good opponent there is no reason not to do it armour style because you're not gonna get away with weapons style. But you'll need a 2nd forge to catch up pretty fast so take your nat gas asap and maybe consider taking a gas 3rd, even if it isn't the closest.

On August 22 2008 20:11 Cham wrote:
I know +1 attack is better against zerglings, but wouldn't the armour upgrade be better for zeals vs lurkers?

On August 21 2008 16:52 evanthebouncy! wrote:


Did you even read his post? It makes so much sense that you'd be retarded not to get it.

Anyways to Rucky,
I think what you're saying is right that protoss should use the +1 weapon to his advantage and force zerg into a defensive position and gain map control but we're not advocating +1 armour every game. It is a specific thing where you only do (as far as I know from reading this thread) if you're going against a fast +1 carapace build or if you plan to use reaver/ht for most of the damage.
I don't think the picking is a big deal because you can always block his flanks and wiggle your key units out of the way.

Also come to think of it is it possible for zealots to just go slow no speed style w/ +1 armour and WALK OVER hydras? Let the hydras micro while you roll it in w/ huge zealot army?(require good timing). If zealot has 1+ armor naturally and +1 armor from upgrade, hydra does 5-2=3 dmg and that's quite laughable no?

On August 20 2008 11:54 Rucky wrote:
Rather than thinking about the battle actually happening, I'm thinking about the situation that would come up. The +1 weapon upgrade from p will scare z into not engaging with the p army. This gives the p army more map control to expand and also protect their hts and reavers. On the other hand, the +1 armor upgrade from p will allow z to be more aggressive knowing their units won't die as fast. Z also knows that p units won't die as fast as well. That might give the z the idea to not attack the p units that don't deal much damage anyway and go straight for picking off the hts and reavers. Z will just harass the hell out of p. Basically, +1 weapon = p plays offensively and +1 armor = p plays defensively. And when p is offensive, z will be defensive and vice versa. Now if we look at normal pvz, p should be the one playing offensive by not allowing z to expand and taking expos themselves. If p lets z play offensive, eventually it doesn't matter about upgrades, z will run p over with tons of expos and tons of units.