EPTThe only real weakness i see of the wraith, is that it is countered by the Valkyrie. But even with that withstanding, the BC is used in pro games so there is some understanding I am lacking. Goliaths just shred BCs, it seems very hard to use them to end the stalemate TvT games compared to dropships.
TvT: Wraiths or Battlecruisers?
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BoxTrade
21 Posts
The only real weakness i see of the wraith, is that it is countered by the Valkyrie. But even with that withstanding, the BC is used in pro games so there is some understanding I am lacking. Goliaths just shred BCs, it seems very hard to use them to end the stalemate TvT games compared to dropships. | ||
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
Generally, you go BCs when the map is starting to get mined out and you are trying to convert an economic edge into a win. (If you are economically behind, you might instead need to go for a doom drop or multi-pronged attack, since time isn't on your side.) Pick the one expansion that will break the map symmetry (a resource-full base, either unclaimed or enemy-occupied) and camp it with tank/BC. Use Yamato or the threat of Yamato to force your opponent into a bad fight. Once it's down to that one key position, pro players will invest almost all their supply into an army that contains BCs+support and then use very small token forces (sometimes just a couple of tanks) to scour whole enemy bases elsewhere. If the opponent diverts too many forces to oppose your token force, they may be open to attack from your BCs+support at the key position. Edit: As always, you could be losing to opponents who are just better at macro than you. If your problem is that you're getting out-expanded and out-spent, you're going to have to address that first. | ||
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BoxTrade
21 Posts
On May 05 2022 06:03 Djabanete wrote: In TvT, BCs are a way to have the final word when everything comes down to one expansion. One reason you could be losing is that you're going for BCs too soon, when many areas of the map are still relevant, and the BCs get stretched too thin and you're forced to expose them in awkward engagements. If instead you use them to secure the last key position and protect them with a small ground force (use goliaths if opponent is on mass wraith and use tanks if opponent is on mass goliath), they will win that key position against anything except a bigger force of BCs. That small accompanying ground force is key. You are correct that BCs can struggle against wraiths or goliaths otherwise. Generally, you go BCs when the map is starting to get mined out and you are trying to convert an economic edge into a win. (If you are economically behind, you might instead need to go for a doom drop or multi-pronged attack, since time isn't on your side.) Pick the one expansion that will break the map symmetry (a resource-full base, either unclaimed or enemy-occupied) and camp it with tank/BC. Use Yamato or the threat of Yamato to force your opponent into a bad fight. Once it's down to that one key position, pro players will invest almost all their supply into an army that contains BCs+support and then use very small token forces (sometimes just a couple of tanks) to scour whole enemy bases elsewhere. If the opponent diverts too many forces to oppose your token force, they may be open to attack from your BCs+support at the key position. Edit: As always, you could be losing to opponents who are just better at macro than you. If your problem is that you're getting out-expanded and out-spent, you're going to have to address that first. Very in depth response! This is what I was coming to. In many of my TvT games, the map does not mine out and games are decided by drops and aggression since is hard to keep track of everything. Oftentimes I would be in even base situations vs the opponent and go BCs, which is why I made the post because i kept losing in these scenarios. They are more of a "40 minutes in only 1-2 bases are left on the map" unit. | ||
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Optimate
249 Posts
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
You also have 2 breakpoints. 0 vs 2 grades and 3 vs 3 grades. Both which will give you 4 shots to kill Wraith instead of 5. This means that if you know you're going BCs at any time in the game you should start upgrading to 3 (9 minutes before you get BC). Thats 100+150+200+50=500 gas including the extra armory if needed, spread out over 9 minutes = 55 gas/minute. For comparison for each Factory you constantly produce Tanks you are using 190 gas/minute, Goliath 119 g/m, Wraith 158 g/m, BC 202 g/m. And for doing so you gain a great advantage vs any-upgraded Wraiths, if its your end goal. Valks are already useless vs BCs as they got base 3 armor, and with fully weapon upgraded BCs you kill them in 7 shots instead of 9 no matter the armor value. Turrets killed by 6 shots instead of 8. Goliaths can ALWAYS kite BCs to death unless you have ground support. | ||
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radley
Poland582 Posts
2 bcs - 800 mins and 600 gas, can be countered by 1 ghost + 2 goliath = 225 / 175. But its harder to play when scale gets bigger - mostly because bcs like other air units stacks on each other and it comes impossible to lockdown all of them in one go, even with super micro skills. | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
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radley
Poland582 Posts
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
On May 13 2022 19:26 radley wrote: It's obvious what u are going to do, but not where. Well where should be at your BCs, if we are talking ghosts :D Medics would ofc be in a dropship. If you manage to lock that first then you might win this battle. Running vultures straight into BCs to kill a few medics, yea you might be able to do it but i feel like BCs will demolish em fast enough + medics heal each other. Its all situational how it plays out. Most people will not have the foresight to build medics to unlock BCs as a counter to ghosts so it all becomes a mind game, vultures to kill medics, medics to kill ghosts, ghosts to kill bcs, bcs to kill vultures/ghosts, tanks to kill gols, gols to kill bcs. wrats to kill bcs, valks to kill wrats. In the end im very certain Tanks+BCs will win because of the amount of micro you need to pull off any of these moves perfectly and have the luck of the opponent to not counter play em. | ||
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