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Manipulating Scarabs

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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MeSaber
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden1235 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-03-28 17:29:55
March 28 2022 17:22 GMT
#1
When people say scarabs 'dud' what actually happens is that you are unknowingly manipulating scarabs when you move the target. I have mentioned this in some other thread but i wanted to showcase (again) what you can do to be safe from scarabs, also what you can do to help scarabs hit the target.

Examples of scarab not finding the path because of a moving target (red probe): [Replay]
[image loading] [image loading] [image loading]

What you can see on the most right image; moving objects (teal probe) blocking a scarab is way more abrupting to scarab pathfinding than static objects.

This is why most of the time when you aim a scarab at a center worker to get maximum damage; when your opponent moves all workers at once it will 'dud'. You dont necessarily have to go away from the scarab either. Some luck can play a role where it have the opportunity to go straight through all blocking probes or if the probes blocking stops, giving scarab pathfinding an easier time to navigate.

As seen on the images, static objects gets a try on pathfinding (red arrows) while moving objects blocking the path do not. Most likely because it never gets the time to pathfind around the blocking object as it keeps moving away from the scarab, resetting pathfinding algorithm.



So how do you actually get the most damage out of scarabs?

As seen in the image below, you can see the reaver can shoot through minerals if you drop it close enough to mineral line. This i would argue is the safest option to keep reaver both alive and do damage to whatever stack of workers you want to attack (as the scarab will jump through all minerals straight to target).

Next is the Green square which serves as the perfect position to get workers cornered. They have nowhere to go resulting in lost workers and hopefully many if aimed correctly (aim at a worker that isnt already blocked by another unit).

As the defender you have four options if a reaver comes:
1. Do nothing, let probes die until reaver is dead.
2. If reaver drops at the Green square you pull probes to gas and then to center map to keep them as unstacked as possible.
3. Flee to base as thats a long distance and you wont need to micromanage them anymore after that, probes will die as you will go straight through reaver (Green square).
4. Keep probes unstacked by going to Center map (yellow lines upwards)

I would say option 4 (yellow lines) is best because it will makes workers unstacked the quickest and starts moving asap. If reaver aims incorrectly (at a worker followed by another worker) it will most certainly 'dud'. Least workers will be killed.

[Replay]
[image loading]

And the scenario if reaver is too far from minerals: (green static target / blue moving target) [Replay]
[image loading]

I encourage you (who uses reaver a lot) to study your own games where you use reaver and see if you can apply this information somewhere to un-'dud' your games.

Maybe sometime in the future; all games becomes un-dud:ed. That would be really cool to see.

I guess thats all i had to say for now. Thank you for reading.
-.-
limbhaze
Profile Joined March 2022
2 Posts
March 29 2022 13:17 GMT
#2
--- Nuked ---
EndingLife
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States1594 Posts
March 29 2022 13:29 GMT
#3
Real good stuff. Sick post!
imBLIND
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2626 Posts
April 01 2022 05:52 GMT
#4
I've always wondered if some kind of science existed for reaver scarabs. Is there a way to take this knowledge even further? The game that comes to mind is Flash vs Rush ASL10, where Flash's rando-toss reaver got 16 kills with extremely surprising hits. Even some pros were shocked. Is this luck, or is it possible Flash knows something that we don't?

im deaf
MeSaber
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden1235 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-04-02 05:49:29
April 01 2022 06:53 GMT
#5
As i mentioned in the post above, a moving target makes scarab use another form of engagement, more like "predicted movement" where it estimates where SCV will be in time, trying to intercept it in its way, thats what happening on the first shot that passes all SCVs, as they are following a predefined pathfinding which is made at map making. So the prediction says SCV will move to the left so it passes all SCV on its left side, not getting blocked by SCVs behind the target.

This then damages a lot of SCVs as scarabs have splash damage and SCVs good enough HP to survive even the 50% splash radius. This is why you rarely see many SCVs die because you have to hit em in the smallest radius that does 100% dmg.

Second shot in main also damages some SCVs.

Third shot, most SCVs are already damaged to the point they will die of scarabs outer splash radius which does 25% (Maybe its the 50%, else all SCVs would be dead).

Reaver splash: (Rightclick image - Open image in new TAB for full size) Wiki: (Wiki)Splash Damage
[image loading]


Compared to Siege Tank splash:
[image loading]

-.-
AleXoundOS
Profile Joined January 2011
Georgia457 Posts
April 05 2022 15:49 GMT
#6
Thank you for the in-depth explanation.
https://bwapi.github.io - An API for interacting with Starcraft: Broodwar (1.16.1)
MineraIs
Profile Joined September 2020
United States846 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-04-07 20:40:03
April 07 2022 20:39 GMT
#7
Every situation will be different with reavers because of the pathing regions being different.
✯ [ twitch.tv/MrMineraIs ] ✯ [ Check out my Maps: https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/612442-official-maps-by-minerals ] ✯
MeSaber
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden1235 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-04-09 06:45:40
April 08 2022 04:55 GMT
#8
On April 08 2022 05:39 MineraIs wrote:
Every situation will be different with reavers because of the pathing regions being different.


I dont think Scarabs follow those regions. The Reaver does to determine if it can shoot or not. Once the Scarab is out, it SEEMS like it doesnt follow any region paths.

I could test this further of course but for now my conclusion is it doesnt use those paths (as mentioned in the post how they differ from worker pathing).

Edit: It could likely be that region paths are used until the target is moving, then it goes for some own path prediction.
-.-
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