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Some .... strategy question about TvP

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States652 Posts
October 25 2021 13:27 GMT
#1
So guys... what do I do against gas steal in TvP

also what I do against fast double expo before gateway?

I have not figured these out 10~15 years ago, and I am still clueless :D

someone explain please.
Mostly a troll, bi-polar by design, occasionally brain malfunction. Please forgive me. xD
kogeT
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland2037 Posts
October 25 2021 13:30 GMT
#2
Gas steal -> 15/17 CC expand or 2 barrack is possible if protoss also goes for some front gateway.
Double expo before gateway I believe you mean 12 nexus -> keep making marine, tak 6-8 scv, rally vulture and try to kill it. It's hard on cross position.
https://www.twitch.tv/kogetbw
krooked
Profile Joined May 2011
376 Posts
October 25 2021 19:37 GMT
#3
On October 25 2021 22:30 kogeT wrote:
Gas steal -> 15/17 CC expand or 2 barrack is possible if protoss also goes for some front gateway.
Double expo before gateway I believe you mean 12 nexus -> keep making marine, tak 6-8 scv, rally vulture and try to kill it. It's hard on cross position.


An alternative to going all in is getting vulture with mine quickly and mine up the map to slow down Protoss and keep tabs on where they are at.
Highgamer
Profile Joined October 2015
1403 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-10-26 07:05:09
October 26 2021 00:07 GMT
#4
KogeT, by "15/17 CC expand" against gas steal you mean: start the CC either before or after starting the first marine?
And when or depending on what do you decide to destroy the Assimilator (and how many SCVs do you use in addition to the marines you can spare?) and when do you build it in the natural instead?

One should point out that killing the 12nex doesn't mean that Terran is ahead, it just means that the game is about evened out - unless Protoss lost too many probes.
Normally it just means: Retreat in time, because many goons will few-shot the forward bunker and be pressuring the natural, soon.
MeSaber
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden1235 Posts
October 26 2021 09:23 GMT
#5
On October 25 2021 22:27 PurE)Rabbit-SF wrote:
So guys... what do I do against gas steal in TvP

also what I do against fast double expo before gateway?

I have not figured these out 10~15 years ago, and I am still clueless :D

someone explain please.


By double exp u really mean nexus nexus gate? If so P is dead.
-.-
kogeT
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland2037 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-10-26 15:21:41
October 26 2021 15:21 GMT
#6
On October 26 2021 09:07 Highgamer wrote:
KogeT, by "15/17 CC expand" against gas steal you mean: start the CC either before or after starting the first marine?
And when or depending on what do you decide to destroy the Assimilator (and how many SCVs do you use in addition to the marines you can spare?) and when do you build it in the natural instead?

One should point out that killing the 12nex doesn't mean that Terran is ahead, it just means that the game is about evened out - unless Protoss lost too many probes.
Normally it just means: Retreat in time, because many goons will few-shot the forward bunker and be pressuring the natural, soon.


SO when you go in detail there are so many small adjustments you need to do / know.. I gave a high level explanation. Obviously protoss can do anytihng from gas steal into nexus, gas steal with gate in base, gas steal with gate at your natural, then he can make 1-4 zealots etc.. Each thing requires different answers, different gas timing, different priority on marine / expanding / killing the gas or making it in natural etc.

For 12 nex if you do it correctly you are usually ahead if you know how to continue. Sometimes it is best to contain on 1 base, sometimes 1 fact 1 port is better, sometimes a turret ring is better, sometimes you want to expand and outmacro protoss, sometimes you want to expand into timing etc.
https://www.twitch.tv/kogetbw
bovienchien
Profile Joined March 2014
Vietnam1152 Posts
October 26 2021 16:45 GMT
#7
I beat Protoss so many times by 14CC on the Eclipse.

Let's do your best. Don't afraid of your opponents.

You can check my build from challenge 3rd 100 games that I've been running in my fanpage: StarCraft Remastered VN.
https://www.facebook.com/StarcraftRemasteredVN/
Highgamer
Profile Joined October 2015
1403 Posts
October 26 2021 18:14 GMT
#8
On October 27 2021 00:21 kogeT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2021 09:07 Highgamer wrote:
KogeT, by "15/17 CC expand" against gas steal you mean: start the CC either before or after starting the first marine?
And when or depending on what do you decide to destroy the Assimilator (and how many SCVs do you use in addition to the marines you can spare?) and when do you build it in the natural instead?

One should point out that killing the 12nex doesn't mean that Terran is ahead, it just means that the game is about evened out - unless Protoss lost too many probes.
Normally it just means: Retreat in time, because many goons will few-shot the forward bunker and be pressuring the natural, soon.


SO when you go in detail there are so many small adjustments you need to do / know.. I gave a high level explanation. Obviously protoss can do anytihng from gas steal into nexus, gas steal with gate in base, gas steal with gate at your natural, then he can make 1-4 zealots etc.. Each thing requires different answers, different gas timing, different priority on marine / expanding / killing the gas or making it in natural etc.

For 12 nex if you do it correctly you are usually ahead if you know how to continue. Sometimes it is best to contain on 1 base, sometimes 1 fact 1 port is better, sometimes a turret ring is better, sometimes you want to expand and outmacro protoss, sometimes you want to expand into timing etc.


Hey, thx anyway. I know such basic questions can get advanced players into somewhat of a predicament to "sum up" what cannot be summed up. Expert's dilemma. I still appreciate your recurrent efforts to offer help.
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5536 Posts
October 26 2021 18:54 GMT
#9
On October 27 2021 00:21 kogeT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2021 09:07 Highgamer wrote:
KogeT, by "15/17 CC expand" against gas steal you mean: start the CC either before or after starting the first marine?
And when or depending on what do you decide to destroy the Assimilator (and how many SCVs do you use in addition to the marines you can spare?) and when do you build it in the natural instead?

One should point out that killing the 12nex doesn't mean that Terran is ahead, it just means that the game is about evened out - unless Protoss lost too many probes.
Normally it just means: Retreat in time, because many goons will few-shot the forward bunker and be pressuring the natural, soon.


SO when you go in detail there are so many small adjustments you need to do / know.. I gave a high level explanation. Obviously protoss can do anytihng from gas steal into nexus, gas steal with gate in base, gas steal with gate at your natural, then he can make 1-4 zealots etc.. Each thing requires different answers, different gas timing, different priority on marine / expanding / killing the gas or making it in natural etc.

For 12 nex if you do it correctly you are usually ahead if you know how to continue. Sometimes it is best to contain on 1 base, sometimes 1 fact 1 port is better, sometimes a turret ring is better, sometimes you want to expand and outmacro protoss, sometimes you want to expand into timing etc.

I think that's my biggest problem with this MU: Protoss can do anything. xD
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
October 27 2021 20:52 GMT
#10
On October 27 2021 03:54 maybenexttime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2021 00:21 kogeT wrote:
On October 26 2021 09:07 Highgamer wrote:
KogeT, by "15/17 CC expand" against gas steal you mean: start the CC either before or after starting the first marine?
And when or depending on what do you decide to destroy the Assimilator (and how many SCVs do you use in addition to the marines you can spare?) and when do you build it in the natural instead?

One should point out that killing the 12nex doesn't mean that Terran is ahead, it just means that the game is about evened out - unless Protoss lost too many probes.
Normally it just means: Retreat in time, because many goons will few-shot the forward bunker and be pressuring the natural, soon.


SO when you go in detail there are so many small adjustments you need to do / know.. I gave a high level explanation. Obviously protoss can do anytihng from gas steal into nexus, gas steal with gate in base, gas steal with gate at your natural, then he can make 1-4 zealots etc.. Each thing requires different answers, different gas timing, different priority on marine / expanding / killing the gas or making it in natural etc.

For 12 nex if you do it correctly you are usually ahead if you know how to continue. Sometimes it is best to contain on 1 base, sometimes 1 fact 1 port is better, sometimes a turret ring is better, sometimes you want to expand and outmacro protoss, sometimes you want to expand into timing etc.

I think that's my biggest problem with this MU: Protoss can do anything. xD


Well in the end it's basically just attack, defend or expand.
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
kogeT
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland2037 Posts
October 28 2021 10:13 GMT
#11
On October 28 2021 05:52 Zoler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2021 03:54 maybenexttime wrote:
On October 27 2021 00:21 kogeT wrote:
On October 26 2021 09:07 Highgamer wrote:
KogeT, by "15/17 CC expand" against gas steal you mean: start the CC either before or after starting the first marine?
And when or depending on what do you decide to destroy the Assimilator (and how many SCVs do you use in addition to the marines you can spare?) and when do you build it in the natural instead?

One should point out that killing the 12nex doesn't mean that Terran is ahead, it just means that the game is about evened out - unless Protoss lost too many probes.
Normally it just means: Retreat in time, because many goons will few-shot the forward bunker and be pressuring the natural, soon.


SO when you go in detail there are so many small adjustments you need to do / know.. I gave a high level explanation. Obviously protoss can do anytihng from gas steal into nexus, gas steal with gate in base, gas steal with gate at your natural, then he can make 1-4 zealots etc.. Each thing requires different answers, different gas timing, different priority on marine / expanding / killing the gas or making it in natural etc.

For 12 nex if you do it correctly you are usually ahead if you know how to continue. Sometimes it is best to contain on 1 base, sometimes 1 fact 1 port is better, sometimes a turret ring is better, sometimes you want to expand and outmacro protoss, sometimes you want to expand into timing etc.

I think that's my biggest problem with this MU: Protoss can do anything. xD


Well in the end it's basically just attack, defend or expand.


How about harrasing to pretend defending while expanding..? Starcraft is not chess, insuffecienty information gives more dimensions to these 3 basic ideas, at least at the execution level, conceptually you are correct.
https://www.twitch.tv/kogetbw
GGmano
Profile Joined February 2021
103 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-10-30 11:31:14
October 30 2021 11:30 GMT
#12
isnt it just the amount of correct actions you click on mouse and/or keyboard, i dont think theres much more into it then that
radley
Profile Joined August 2008
Poland582 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-11-01 04:16:19
November 01 2021 04:15 GMT
#13
I think on B rank and lower levels its better to go 13/14 cc build most games, than try rax expand. The reason is simple - if protoss goes forward gateway zealot you gonna be still in losing position going rax expand due to bad micro. Using cc first u will lose immediately and dont lose more time prelonging game, looking for miracle that usually won't happen. But if protoss scouts late and goes for dragon first, you are in very good position, even better if he went 12 nexus. Just need to scout for 3rd base early on and if so go for some quick 4 fact push allin, cutting scvs.
TL+ Member
CHEONSOYUN
Profile Joined August 2017
517 Posts
November 01 2021 23:43 GMT
#14
On November 01 2021 13:15 radley wrote:
I think on B rank and lower levels its better to go 13/14 cc build most games, than try rax expand. The reason is simple - if protoss goes forward gateway zealot you gonna be still in losing position going rax expand due to bad micro. Using cc first u will lose immediately and dont lose more time prelonging game, looking for miracle that usually won't happen. But if protoss scouts late and goes for dragon first, you are in very good position, even better if he went 12 nexus. Just need to scout for 3rd base early on and if so go for some quick 4 fact push allin, cutting scvs.


literal defeatist/losing mentality. also if you’re going to most likely lose to zealot pressure going for a barracks, and this is so common at lower levels, why would you say that these same losers should instead gamble on a build that will?
JAEDONG...!!! EFFORT IS ANGRY. ZERG...?!
krooked
Profile Joined May 2011
376 Posts
November 02 2021 00:56 GMT
#15
On November 01 2021 13:15 radley wrote:
I think on B rank and lower levels its better to go 13/14 cc build most games, than try rax expand. The reason is simple - if protoss goes forward gateway zealot you gonna be still in losing position going rax expand due to bad micro. Using cc first u will lose immediately and dont lose more time prelonging game, looking for miracle that usually won't happen. But if protoss scouts late and goes for dragon first, you are in very good position, even better if he went 12 nexus. Just need to scout for 3rd base early on and if so go for some quick 4 fact push allin, cutting scvs.


Or learn to sim city, scout for zealot moving across the map, don't rally marines to ramp if you're not going to pay attention etc. It really isn't that hard dealing with forward zealot.
confusedzerg
Profile Joined July 2021
Russian Federation102 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-11-02 02:23:10
November 02 2021 02:22 GMT
#16
honestly you should just 1 rax expand. if he's going ham with zealots like fuckin proxy 2 gate, grow some balls and alsp down a second barracks ASAP. afterwards, whether he went proxy gate or not, you can bunker and shit at ur expo to not die to goons since your tank will be slow, but he has the option of staying on 2 base and just teching really fast. if that's the case, best bet is to get a really good 6 fact all in timing you can pull off consistently. that shit always slaps me around when anyone at least 2k mmr does it. terran armies rape toss if they have no spellcasters. so attack when they have very low amounts.

against nexus first, you should pull 7 scvs if you scout it in time then just fuckin attack with marines and rally a vulture so it arrives shortly after your bunker is started. then just fuck him up and try to kill probes, but if you dont kill probes you're even. welcome to tvp
I am a Westerner and I like homosexuality. Thank you.
radley
Profile Joined August 2008
Poland582 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-11-04 18:49:47
November 04 2021 18:49 GMT
#17
On November 02 2021 08:43 CHEONSOYUN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2021 13:15 radley wrote:
I think on B rank and lower levels its better to go 13/14 cc build most games, than try rax expand. The reason is simple - if protoss goes forward gateway zealot you gonna be still in losing position going rax expand due to bad micro. Using cc first u will lose immediately and dont lose more time prelonging game, looking for miracle that usually won't happen. But if protoss scouts late and goes for dragon first, you are in very good position, even better if he went 12 nexus. Just need to scout for 3rd base early on and if so go for some quick 4 fact push allin, cutting scvs.


literal defeatist/losing mentality. also if you’re going to most likely lose to zealot pressure going for a barracks, and this is so common at lower levels, why would you say that these same losers should instead gamble on a build that will?


I literally did explain why, but looks like you can't get it. I don't lose against forward zealots pressure, but often set myself back because of not handling it perfectly. Note that I only compare 13/14 cc to 15 rax first cc. And I'm rather micro player, which makes me around lower S rank of standard players in those terms ;o
TL+ Member
GGmano
Profile Joined February 2021
103 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-11-05 23:15:45
November 05 2021 20:59 GMT
#18
On November 05 2021 03:49 radley wrote:

I literally did explain why, but looks like you can't get it. I don't lose against forward zealots pressure, but often set myself back because of not handling it perfectly. Note that I only compare 13/14 cc to 15 rax first cc. And I'm rather micro player, which makes me around lower S rank of standard players in those terms ;o


You @radley have same problem with understanding what people explain to you, so why you surprised when others dont get what you explain. Ive seen some of youre streams, you where definatly having issues with battles against protoss.. zerg you seemed to handle better. isnt S rank for those who win money on playing sc?
radley
Profile Joined August 2008
Poland582 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-11-06 05:44:13
November 06 2021 05:32 GMT
#19
GGmano I have no words for your sharp mind and pen. And I win enough money in Desert Strike Championships year by year, where you can't even qualify and have to organise some scum tournaments on your own, rigged maps to make up for it. I thought I'd already explained you in your topic, so please don't escalate it to other areas.
TL+ Member
GGmano
Profile Joined February 2021
103 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-11-06 09:10:10
November 06 2021 07:12 GMT
#20
youre changing the subject, Radley you always been blah blah blah when ive tryid to communicate with you. when asking for links, proff etc etc than you become silent.(if the worlds best DS player would be qualified for youre ds tournament youre tournament would be ruined). You had the chance to join Desert strike world championship tournament but you didnt dare to do so. Dont judge something youre clueless about. Do only speak of what you have knowledge off

i only stated the stupidity that you shouldnt shitpost on others asking them why they dont understand you while you clearly have same issue youre self. please dont start other discussions.
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