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Active: 646 users

Disruption Web against Lurkers?

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
Veky
Profile Joined May 2020
5 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-07-30 14:53:55
July 30 2021 14:53 GMT
#1
Hi all, 9 months ago I asked on reddit why we don't see Disruption web against Lurkers.
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/jsgjt6/disruption_web_against_lurkers/

The question came after I've seen ASL and protoss players being massacred by mass Lurkers.
DWebs not being upgraded/used after all the Corsairs being made to hunt Overlords is mind-blowing to me.

Now Artosis casted Stork vs yabsab G5 in which Stork effectively denied Lurkers multiple times during the game.


Hopefully, this will open the eyes to other protoss players to use DWebs as soon as they notice mass Lurkers.

This case with DWeb reminds me of people questioning usage of Queens until they became meta as soon as Terran players go mass tanks.

Any thoughts?
confusedzerg
Profile Joined July 2021
Russian Federation102 Posts
July 30 2021 16:37 GMT
#2
On July 30 2021 23:53 Veky wrote:
Any thoughts?


Yeah, it fucking sucks.

User was temp banned for this post.
I am a Westerner and I like homosexuality. Thank you.
MeSaber
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden1235 Posts
July 30 2021 18:47 GMT
#3
Dweb dont suck lol. However you need beacon + the upgrade so there are costs involved that players prioritize in other areas. If you have 12 sairs you definitely should have web.
-.-
Timebon3s
Profile Joined May 2018
Norway685 Posts
July 30 2021 21:00 GMT
#4
It’s not that expensive actually, but I think it has more to do with having to micro even more units in an already micro heavy mu.
Maby maelstrom would be better, or reaver play.

QOGQOG
Profile Joined July 2019
834 Posts
July 31 2021 04:39 GMT
#5
It's usually better to hit a lurker with storm than disruption web, and you can get 2-3 (with the energy upgrade) storms vs 1-2 (honestly forgot corsairs had an energy upgrade until I looked it up) d webs on a fully charged unit. And you want High Templar+storms anyway, almost no matter what.

Now, that said, I'm all for trying out offbeat PvZ strategies. But I'm not sure this has much going for it beyond the novelty factor.
MeSaber
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden1235 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-07-31 07:26:59
July 31 2021 07:25 GMT
#6
What im saying is if you already bought 12 sairs and tend to use em for overlord killing, web will serve you well for that hunt.

Its a 500/400 cost for web (beacon+ability)

Its also useful for goon fights vs hydras or lurker contain to block some damage. Web is certainly underrated and you dont really need that much micro for it because you rarely need more than 2-3 webs for the cause.

You can also transition into reaver drops where reavers+web is a deadly combo.
-.-
kaspa84
Profile Joined July 2016
Brazil169 Posts
July 31 2021 07:28 GMT
#7
On July 31 2021 13:39 QOGQOG wrote:
It's usually better to hit a lurker with storm than disruption web, and you can get 2-3 (with the energy upgrade) storms vs 1-2 (honestly forgot corsairs had an energy upgrade until I looked it up) d webs on a fully charged unit. And you want High Templar+storms anyway, almost no matter what.

Now, that said, I'm all for trying out offbeat PvZ strategies. But I'm not sure this has much going for it beyond the novelty factor.


The "problem" with storms may be Mutas sniping HTs? I have seen so many Ps lose because of this, but 12 stairs cannot be smiled by Mutas.
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
July 31 2021 10:52 GMT
#8
i think it's a good idea. Better than sair against tanks.
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria3933 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-07-31 20:58:04
July 31 2021 20:57 GMT
#9
I can see d-web perhaps becoming more generally useful. Stork has a very strategic mind, so it doesn't surprise me that we saw him implement it.
Needs to be tested over many games though.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28637 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-08-01 02:07:54
July 31 2021 22:12 GMT
#10
I've been arguing for the occasional utility of this for more than a decade. It's really hard to effectively use dweb in a big pvz battle - storm is virtually always more important - but in those games where zerg has turtled up, protoss already got 6 sairs and has air control, p has a bunch of goons wanting to pounce on a base but can't because of the sunken lurker defense, then surely a 500/400 investment to get dweb can be worth it.

That said - over the years, I've probably tried to use dweb with my gateway units in this manner something like.. 30+ times in pvz. Nearly half those games I probably lost because of a) the investment and b) trying to dweb hydras when I should be storming them. Bunch of games it didn't feel too big of a deal one way or the other. But a handful of the games - where zerg was droning and teching hard with pure colony+lurker defense, I managed to bust a zerg I'd have no chance to bust without web. This is one of those cases of theorycraft where good players actually can make it work - we've seen more queens in the past 3 years, wouldn't be surprised if we saw more dweb being applied either.

Edit: and - this is not worth it if you have to rebuild sairs or build them for this purpose. But if you've held on to them, yes, it can be worth it. Your sairs have saved up energy too.
Moderator
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51433 Posts
August 01 2021 01:56 GMT
#11
want to chime in and say that the best use of d-web vs zerg was foru (?) vs infinity in some wgtour ladder games. it made pimpest plays one year.

Commentator
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
August 01 2021 19:16 GMT
#12
On August 01 2021 10:56 GTR wrote:
want to chime in and say that the best use of d-web vs zerg was foru (?) vs infinity in some wgtour ladder games. it made pimpest plays one year.

https://youtu.be/00l7BvBApQE?t=206


That looks like it was corsair reaver, in which case disruption web is standard
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
XenOsky
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Chile2260 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-08-02 07:53:48
August 02 2021 07:53 GMT
#13
On August 01 2021 10:56 GTR wrote:
want to chime in and say that the best use of d-web vs zerg was foru (?) vs infinity in some wgtour ladder games. it made pimpest plays one year.

https://youtu.be/00l7BvBApQE?t=206



i remember that game, 1st time i saw a replay of a protoss going Forge F exp vs Zerg before Bisu... then sair/reaver and cannons on high ground... stuff of legend
StarCraft & Audax Italiano.
kidcrash
Profile Joined September 2009
United States620 Posts
August 02 2021 23:26 GMT
#14
Id like to see protoss experiment with arbiter/recall to circumnavigate turtled zerg positions. I know that scourge hard counters arbiter but maybe focusing on keeping their sair count alive cant prevent this. Sorry to derail from the dweb talk but I think dweb can be a bit expensive and clumsy.
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
August 04 2021 19:54 GMT
#15
On August 02 2021 16:53 XenOsky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 01 2021 10:56 GTR wrote:
want to chime in and say that the best use of d-web vs zerg was foru (?) vs infinity in some wgtour ladder games. it made pimpest plays one year.

https://youtu.be/00l7BvBApQE?t=206



i remember that game, 1st time i saw a replay of a protoss going Forge F exp vs Zerg before Bisu... then sair/reaver and cannons on high ground... stuff of legend


He was ahead of his time for sure. If LT were brought back today, forge expand to corsair reaver is, I believe, how people would play on it (except for 12'oclock on which Protoss would just lose).
People did play that way on other similar maps years later, like Andromeda
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
August 04 2021 19:55 GMT
#16
On August 03 2021 08:26 kidcrash wrote:
Id like to see protoss experiment with arbiter/recall to circumnavigate turtled zerg positions. I know that scourge hard counters arbiter but maybe focusing on keeping their sair count alive cant prevent this. Sorry to derail from the dweb talk but I think dweb can be a bit expensive and clumsy.


I was an advocate for recalls being a good option to finish a Zerg off after getting ahead for a long time, and after a while, it emerged in pro play. Shuttle did it to Soulkey a few months ago.
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
LUCKY_NOOB
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
Bulgaria1423 Posts
August 05 2021 11:14 GMT
#17
RECALL is great... Protoss has SO MANY OPTIONS and they rarely use them when contained hard. I would LOVE to see it more often.

D-web to fully commit and murder ALL the overlords ALL the time maybe?

I think Protoss has so much underutilized potential...

ko-fi.com/luckynoob
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