• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:21
CEST 14:21
KST 21:21
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection6Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2
Community News
[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June2Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th151Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League6
StarCraft 2
General
TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview What kind of tool would you be interested in?
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion 25 Years Since Brood War Patch 1.08 BW animated web series: seeking contributors FlaSh's ASL S21 Finals Review BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST [ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread PC Games Sales Thread Summer Games Done Quick 2026! The Perfect Game
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Trading/Investing Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
McBoner: A hockey love story 2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Esportsmanship: How to NOT B…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7586 users

[PVT] taking a 3rd base on NeoSylphid

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
chozen86
Profile Blog Joined May 2017
United States60 Posts
August 27 2020 20:57 GMT
#1
Been having trouble with PVT on NeoSylphid, specifically re: taking a 3rd base.

I find the closest 3rds to be a pick your poison situation: they are either unwallable (the weird "high ground") or mineral only (and costly to wall off with pylons). If I take the "high ground" 3rd for the early 3rd gas, I tend to get burned by speed vulture harass (before I have cannons up). And also if the T decides to do an aggressive early 2-base push (e.g., as in this replay), it's hard for me to get a good angle of attack, and I frequently get hemmed in to my nat. Often the two go together: vulture harass distracts me while the 2-base push moves out and then I get pinned. On the flip side, if I take the mineral only, I find it hard to get my arbiter tech out in time.

I know an effective solution is to get better at map vision and positioning of dragoons and evacuating workers in response to harass, and heading off an early 2-base push (cf. previous thread on this I posted)

But I wonder: is it safer overall (especially as an E rank scrub with limited time to practice mechanics) to take the further (but more easily wallable and including gas) expo as my 3rd?

Also feedback on my rep is welcome! I saw the 6 facs with my obs and immediately added gates and a shuttle, though maybe I should have been stricter with my probe cut, and I definitely should have been aware of being distracted by the vulture harass to miss the move out (not sure how much I could have slowed it with those spawning positions though). Probably also would have been good to just position some goons at the 3rd before cannons, and have better simcity at the nat.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44051 Posts
August 30 2020 18:10 GMT
#2
If you're playing a standard style your observer should arrive inside his main around the time you're deciding whether to take a 3rd or block a 2 base allin with your own 2 base. From there I think it depends what you see. If you see siege, academy, armory spinning, tanks being produced, and a CC being made at the wall near his pocket 3rd then you don't need to worry about vults. You can take a third, keep producing goons, and use the goons for map control by the time he starts making speed vults. If you see him making vults and a machine shop spinning then you want to keep making obs, split your goons into two control groups of 5 or so (while keeping 1 blocking the gap in your natural pylon wall) and sweep the map for mines and vults. The main thing with early vults is that you want map presence with your goons (outside his nat, at the pocket 3rd to stop them going that way, roaming) to stop him from moving freely. Vultures in low numbers die super hard to goons so you don't want to make a giant ball of goons and protect one place, you want to make a few small balls of goons and leave them in places that make it difficult for him to exploit the mobility of the vults.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Kung Fu Cup
11:00
#11
IntoTheiNu 705
RotterdaM626
WardiTV332
Liquipedia
Replay Cast
09:00
KungFu Cup 2026 Week 10
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 626
Rex 109
Codebar 52
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 36413
Calm 10579
Shuttle 696
BeSt 580
Hyuk 377
Mini 291
Soulkey 267
Light 234
EffOrt 220
actioN 218
[ Show more ]
Rush 167
Last 156
Hyun 148
ggaemo 144
Snow 123
hero 73
Mind 62
[sc1f]eonzerg 49
Killer 46
ToSsGirL 43
JYJ 40
Free 39
scan(afreeca) 38
Sharp 37
sSak 30
Barracks 21
sorry 20
Sacsri 20
soO 18
JulyZerg 18
Hm[arnc] 16
zelot 15
GoRush 15
NaDa 14
IntoTheRainbow 13
Movie 11
Noble 11
Icarus 7
Terrorterran 3
Dota 2
Dendi1525
XcaliburYe209
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1886
zeus398
edward124
Other Games
singsing1784
Liquid`RaSZi1099
Lowko669
B2W.Neo614
crisheroes288
DeMusliM240
hiko194
Pyrionflax174
Sick144
byalli140
amsayoshi30
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV141
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP57
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 10
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis5237
• Jankos3312
Upcoming Events
Maestros of the Game
2h 39m
Classic vs Lambo
Clem vs Maru
Replay Cast
11h 39m
The PondCast
21h 39m
Maestros of the Game
1d 2h
Serral vs Rogue
herO vs SHIN
OSC
1d 10h
Replay Cast
1d 11h
Maestros of the Game
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
OSC
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Season 22
2026 GSL S2
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
Acropolis #4 - GSB
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #3
Heroes Pulsing #2
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.