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On November 09 2006 17:35 skyglow1 wrote:
Fine, I guess some gamers are too lazy to do a few more actions to keep their money down late game. Play how you want to play.
"late game" trying not to get over 500 is ALOT of work, these aren't just "some gamers" watch some pro reps and see how many semi long games they stay below 500:O Also, having money in the bank later game is good when u need to start pumping out a specific unit after an enemey tech change ( random example) and other things t_t
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riiiggghhhttt, so off of this ridiculous "OMG MACRO IS JUST HOW LOW YOU KEEP YOUR RESOURCES!1!1" bullcrap, I think you need to read through Chill's thread about shit you need to do before posting to ask for help :O
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On November 10 2006 01:11 Drowsy wrote:
riiiggghhhttt, so off of this ridiculous "OMG MACRO IS JUST HOW LOW YOU KEEP YOUR RESOURCES!1!1" bullcrap, I think you need to read through Chill's thread about shit you need to do before posting to ask for help :O
I never said that...I meant below 500 as a good aim or target for someone trying to improve their macro. Sure, its unlikely they'll stay below 500 for the whole game, but the ridiculously difficult target makes the improvement larger imo.
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It's only natural for nerds who feel their judgment has been slighted to call down the thunder Skyglow. Of course it's a good goal to give to a new player. Why the hell are you guys even arguing over it.
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The money you'll put in one unit build cycle for your facts/rax/ports late game is a lot more than 500, so keeping your money lower than this is nothing else, but completely useless.
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On November 10 2006 03:01 lololol wrote:
The money you'll put in one unit build cycle for your facts/rax/ports late game is a lot more than 500, so keeping your money lower than this is nothing else, but completely useless.
Sorry I don't understand. The 500 I'm talking about is after you've done 1 build cycle for your units, then you have some cash still left over. So you make a rax/fact/scv/expo etc.
Oh ok I understand now, but I was thinking about build more often than regular build cycles, which is again a big ask but possible.
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3 resource nodes
2/3 facs = 300/450 mins assuming you make tanks
8 rax = 400 mins assuming you make MMF
2 depots = 200 mins
1 port = 100 mins assuming you make vessel/ds
= 1000/1150 mins
Sometimes you even need to have money for upgrades
Chances are you need to be around 1000 minerals for a cycle to be optimal even when you go SK and make no tanks(more raxes will make up for that AND the marine buildtime is faster than tanks)
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You should keep below 200. That's even better
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On November 10 2006 03:41 Guybrush wrote:
3 resource nodes
2/3 facs = 300/450 mins assuming you make tanks
8 rax = 400 mins assuming you make MMF
2 depots = 200 mins
1 port = 100 mins assuming you make vessel/ds
= 1000/1150 mins
Sometimes you even need to have money for upgrades
Chances are you need to be around 1000 minerals for a cycle to be optimal even when you go SK and make no tanks(more raxes will make up for that AND the marine buildtime is faster than tanks)
Thats why you don't just do 1 cycle after another, but spend money whenever you can (but not queuing up any units).
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On November 10 2006 02:12 skyglow1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2006 01:11 Drowsy wrote:
riiiggghhhttt, so off of this ridiculous "OMG MACRO IS JUST HOW LOW YOU KEEP YOUR RESOURCES!1!1" bullcrap, I think you need to read through Chill's thread about shit you need to do before posting to ask for help :O I never said that...I meant below 500 as a good aim or target for someone trying to improve their macro. Sure, its unlikely they'll stay below 500 for the whole game, but the ridiculously difficult target makes the improvement larger imo.
its even worse as a goal to a new player because they will focus on keeping their money low to the exclusion of everything else, which is just as bad as building up 3k/3k resources.
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On November 10 2006 15:33 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2006 02:12 skyglow1 wrote:On November 10 2006 01:11 Drowsy wrote:
riiiggghhhttt, so off of this ridiculous "OMG MACRO IS JUST HOW LOW YOU KEEP YOUR RESOURCES!1!1" bullcrap, I think you need to read through Chill's thread about shit you need to do before posting to ask for help :O I never said that...I meant below 500 as a good aim or target for someone trying to improve their macro. Sure, its unlikely they'll stay below 500 for the whole game, but the ridiculously difficult target makes the improvement larger imo. its even worse as a goal to a new player because they will focus on keeping their money low to the exclusion of everything else, which is just as bad as building up 3k/3k resources.
Thats why I think its important to focus on 1 thing at a time. Like say they build up a decent macro base then they retain this level of macro while concentrating on other things like micro.
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its far more important to learn to multitask than to sit on your base constantly producing units that you cant use.
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It's bad to focus on the one thing you suggested because the suggested thing is impossible (or if you want to be technical, it'll take years to learn). You even said "focus on improving macro first", so he may unknowingly brush aside other important factors of the game such as timing, unit choice, micro, etc. while trying to attain what you suggested.
Actually, the reason I brought up the ridiculous 500 mineral macro requirement was because the tone of your post made it seem like you could do it yourself.
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On November 09 2006 23:57 OverTheUnder wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2006 17:35 skyglow1 wrote:
Fine, I guess some gamers are too lazy to do a few more actions to keep their money down late game. Play how you want to play. "late game" trying not to get over 500 is ALOT of work, these aren't just "some gamers" watch some pro reps and see how many semi long games they stay below 500:O Also, having money in the bank later game is good when u need to start pumping out a specific unit after an enemey tech change ( random example) and other things t_t
not realy true , i can keep my money under 500 and im not pro gamer t.t
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i think youre pretty close to pro gamer kira
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lol, how'd this turn from a help zalfor thread to pick on skyglow thread :p
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United States10774 Posts
On November 10 2006 22:16 sMi.KiRa wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2006 23:57 OverTheUnder wrote:On November 09 2006 17:35 skyglow1 wrote:
Fine, I guess some gamers are too lazy to do a few more actions to keep their money down late game. Play how you want to play. "late game" trying not to get over 500 is ALOT of work, these aren't just "some gamers" watch some pro reps and see how many semi long games they stay below 500:O Also, having money in the bank later game is good when u need to start pumping out a specific unit after an enemey tech change ( random example) and other things t_t not realy true , i can keep my money under 500 and im not pro gamer t.t
5000*
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On November 10 2006 21:59 Blind wrote:
It's bad to focus on the one thing you suggested because the suggested thing is impossible (or if you want to be technical, it'll take years to learn). You even said "focus on improving macro first", so he may unknowingly brush aside other important factors of the game such as timing, unit choice, micro, etc. while trying to attain what you suggested.
Actually, the reason I brought up the ridiculous 500 mineral macro requirement was because the tone of your post made it seem like you could do it yourself.
I'm too crap at explaining things and expressing myself so I can't really get through my idea T_T Below 500 isn't too hard a thing to achieve either.
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On November 10 2006 15:28 skyglow1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2006 03:41 Guybrush wrote:
3 resource nodes
2/3 facs = 300/450 mins assuming you make tanks
8 rax = 400 mins assuming you make MMF
2 depots = 200 mins
1 port = 100 mins assuming you make vessel/ds
= 1000/1150 mins
Sometimes you even need to have money for upgrades
Chances are you need to be around 1000 minerals for a cycle to be optimal even when you go SK and make no tanks(more raxes will make up for that AND the marine buildtime is faster than tanks) Thats why you don't just do 1 cycle after another, but spend money whenever you can (but not queuing up any units).
1 cycle doesnt mean queing up units. You're supposed to spend as little time as possible macroing, hence you're only returning to your base the moment before your previous cycle ends in terms of units coming out of the buildings. This way you will produce efficiently and continuous from your buildings assuming you're back in time.
And to do the cycles (assuming you do them fast enough) you need the previous mentioned amount of money to complete them time-effectively, and not get stalled due to to insuffient resources. Assuming you'd only have 5 gateways you make zealots from lategame, then yes getting over 500 would suck, as you most defnitely hotkey all of them and spam for example 5zzzzzz etc continiously as you get new money. Then your units wont come out in waves but individually at different times out from the gateways. Chances are you wont macro like that in TvZ as its a very microoriented MU and when you get more expos than your natural, you dont have room for more than 2 raxes lategame if you have a big enough army + two scans.
Your goal is to use as little time as possible macroing hence the cycles. You dont see Nada sitting above his factories waiting to get money to produce in his two last factories, when he has 10 facs.
Your method of macroing is excellent early game, but as mentioned when you reach a certain income and bigger armies that require more micro you need to limit the time spent on macro very low. You dont seem to have understood my previous post please read it again.
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EPT
