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akamufu
Korea (South)321 Posts
Below are some things i wanna know who made up this kind of stuff. Terran: Who made up the thing about going marines and medics against zerg? And who made up the building orders to tech? I heard boxer made most of these but... Protoss: Building order, fast expo strategy, sairs/reavers, teching against terran. Zerg: You all get the idea. And the awesome trick with overlords? If you all could help me out, that'd be great | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
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IIICodeIIIIIII
China1101 Posts
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Spike
United States1392 Posts
still do  It did take me a while to tech to dragoons. For a long time I didn't realize that we could upgrade goon range + zlot speed. | ||
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Night[Mare
Mexico4793 Posts
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trtr
Russian Federation17 Posts
Didnt play vanilla SC? BroodWar was a very good add-on for vanilla SC - almost all race got what they wanted. So it was obvious what to use for expirienced vanilla players after a month of DT or lurk rushes. Terran - using m&m in TvZ - it was a natural solution for those who played vanilla SC. Because without stimpack terran forces were simply destroyed by zerg ground. But without medics stimpacking in wrong time was very dangerous. So Boxer didnt invented it.... Mech vs toss - i remember it in 99, (orky)Soul was experimenting it on me (no wall-in, bunker near CC) %) Dunno where did he get that idea Zerg - Overlord scouting or what? Scouting was obvious... Toss - its harder, but those days TOSSes had 2 points - vulnerable to muta and super mega haxor cool reavers. So - reavers were downgraded and corsairs were introduced in BW. Teching vs terran - simply dunno - think it happened when terran started to wall on LT. Fast expo - i used it in 99. As far as i remember some of the XDS members posted a strategy about it (maybe it was Grrr) | ||
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lawl mart
United States1289 Posts
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PersonMan
United States113 Posts
On September 30 2006 15:42 akamufu wrote: what was ur building orders and stuff before starcraft was so famous in korea? was it just random units and no micro? for ex. attacking with firebats, goliaths, vultures, valkeryies (which is never used now), marines, ghosts. did u all ever do this kind of stuff before there were famous building orders and strategys? MM+Tanks vs everything, when i first bought BW =) | ||
jkillashark
United States5262 Posts
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YoUr_KiLLeR
United States3420 Posts
i also tried to read and copy builds from starcraft.org. | ||
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Patriot.dlk
Sweden5462 Posts
Like people said, most things was natural for experienced vanilla players. And walling with terran goes back to Warcraft II. Naturally I had a newbish startout with many bunkers into BC. But in a week or something a friend showed me replays and tought me hotkeys so ya tech in two matchups with every race was what I did.. tvp, tvt, zvz, zvt, pvt,pvt I teached always | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
i went mass marines every game later i became friends with members of the playaz clan and started playing mostly protoss, and my game was pretty good for a bgh player then | ||
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azndsh
United States4447 Posts
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
so how can it be about bw and not vanilla sc | ||
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trtr
Russian Federation17 Posts
On September 30 2006 16:54 travis wrote: this post is about 'before the gosus', right? so how can it be about bw and not vanilla sc IMHO - SC became mass popular in Korea and their overall level became much higher than the others only after the BW came out (and it didnt happened instantly). And i pointed out that main concepts of the game have borned before Korean progaming community established and started to rule everybody. | ||
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red.venom
United States4651 Posts
And I made units in groups of 12. So I would have like 12 dragoons, and then I would make 12 carriers. Which to me was the ULTIMATE POSSIBLE ;; After BW came out I would read strats on starcraft.org and broodwar.com and generally would just do things like fast marine/tank drop with bunkers and I only played seriously right after 1.08 came out anyway. | ||
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akamufu
Korea (South)321 Posts
[B] Zerg: You all get the idea. And the awesome trick with overlords? If you all could help me out, that'd be great i meant as in with the mutalisks about the overlords. and actually, marine and medics wth tanks against toss is good if they only stick to goons and zealots, like anytime does. and im akamufu, and im 14 in america, i just live in america whats vanilla and why cant u talk about broodwar? | ||
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TreK
Sweden2089 Posts
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Alborz
Canada1551 Posts
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Darki[Per]
Peru689 Posts
On September 30 2006 17:44 red.venom wrote: Pre-BW I didnt ever make more than 1-2 of any production building, beacuse I figured "Eventually it would be wasted mineral when I am all mined out." rofl same here i actually just played mass bgh games i remember those days were really funny because with no decent internet connection to play @ bnet our ''clan'' go to differents cybercafes looking for challenge really good times | ||
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M7Excellence
United States227 Posts
How do you make the olv spin? That is something I forgot how to do because when I knew it I didn't use it. | ||
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yokohama
United States1116 Posts
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Chill
Calgary25980 Posts
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eA.liquidman3
Australia27 Posts
I never mass expo'd, i wonder who invented that...And stim, i barley knew that existed let alone use it. | ||
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red.venom
United States4651 Posts
On September 30 2006 19:14 RaGnArOkY wrote: I just think through years of playing and trial and error the players adapted into the fastest possible and most reasonable way to do something to its fullest. The flipside is that its not really as much fun to play now. And I mean that in a purely sim-city sense. The age of experimentation is over. Now its just technicality. | ||
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XDawn
Canada4040 Posts
Terran -> Turtle/D until BattleCruisers Protoss -> Turtle/D until Carriers Zerg -> Turtle/D until mass hydras or guardians/mutalisks | ||
KwarK
United States42653 Posts
On September 30 2006 17:44 red.venom wrote: Pre-BW I didnt ever make more than 1-2 of any production building, beacuse I figured "Eventually it would be wasted mineral when I am all mined out." And I made units in groups of 12. So I would have like 12 dragoons, and then I would make 12 carriers. Which to me was the ULTIMATE POSSIBLE ;; Me too. And if one carrier got hurt beyond the shields it'd be retreat time, that carrier would be retired to base and a new one would be built. If it's damaged then it is no longer as strong as it can possibly be. | ||
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skyglow1
New Zealand3962 Posts
On September 30 2006 19:10 M7Excellence wrote: I think the Olv muta thing happend by mistake. When you drag the box over mutas as soon as they pop hatch, sometimes you get a olv or larva in the cntrl group. Most likely someone noticed that the mutas stacked and found out why. How do you make the olv spin? That is something I forgot how to do because when I knew it I didn't use it. If you wanted it to to spin say on a command center, you center it on the cc first, then you right click somewhere else and immediately press patrol and left click on the cc. So the overlord will be patrolling between 2 very close points and will twirl round and round. | ||
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akamufu
Korea (South)321 Posts
On September 30 2006 18:44 Alborz wrote: SC seemed a lot more fun "before the gosus" why is that? and yeah, sc now is all a certain order, and only boxer seems to be the only one being able to come up with new stuff, but its not even that out of the box you know? its all ultimate micro, no revolution thing. before i knew sc was so famous, i usualy made 2 of every unit buildings and made 12 units of each and attacked like on this map called sc color money. | ||
Last Romantic
United States20661 Posts
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M7Excellence
United States227 Posts
On September 30 2006 20:58 skyglow1 wrote: [removed quote within quote] If you wanted it to to spin say on a command center, you center it on the cc first, then you right click somewhere else and immediately press patrol and left click on the cc. So the overlord will be patrolling between 2 very close points and will twirl round and round. ![[image loading]](http://www.ondmis.dk/billeder/forumpics/loveyou.jpg) | ||
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Alborz
Canada1551 Posts
On September 30 2006 21:02 akamufu wrote: [removed quote within quote] why is that? and yeah, sc now is all a certain order, and only boxer seems to be the only one being able to come up with new stuff, but its not even that out of the box you know? its all ultimate micro, no revolution thing. before i knew sc was so famous, i usualy made 2 of every unit buildings and made 12 units of each and attacked like on this map called sc color money. I just guessed it would've been more fun since everyone would have their own unique strats, it wouldnt be the stock-BO's you see in most games now. Just a thought. | ||
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WhatisProtoss
Korea (South)2325 Posts
He published a lot of strategy guide build orders online. | ||
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Dexxus
United States329 Posts
On September 30 2006 18:44 Alborz wrote: SC seemed a lot more fun "before the gosus" YES IT DID. Also, Zileas FTW. | ||
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Aerox
Malaysia1213 Posts
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RaYhN
United States437 Posts
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Aukai
United States1183 Posts
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Highways
Australia6103 Posts
-templar rush -marine rush i thought sc was all about rushing | ||
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nortydog
Australia3067 Posts
http://www.battle.net/scc/br/ Battle Reports are accounts of StarCraft and StarCraft: Brood War games. These in-depth accounts are created to provide an in-depth view into the strategies and tactics employed by top players. Although we do not accept unsolicited submissions for the Battle Reports section, we do encourage our players to share their game experiences with others. | ||
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Fedaykin
Netherlands2003 Posts
On October 03 2006 23:46 Aukai wrote: I remember before goon time was extended, PvT was just goon rush > win? I think that's about true. 1 hatch hydra rushes were also quite valid before larva spawn was slower And in vanilla I did tank+m pushed everything. Push1: do dmg, Push2: do more dmg Push 3: have BCs and win. Opponent was contained and got owned by BCs, I think that was my short period of gosu-ness when I got the timing down, ofcourse it didn't last more than a month or so | ||
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Beamo
France1279 Posts
The first time I saw a terran Wall on temple was Elky in 99 in the final of a small tourney (he used to be protoss but played random for that tourney). A korean player beat me PvZ with a fast expand, I has an over in his base and thought he was a newb since his timing was slow, when I noticed he had his natural, was too late... I also saw Grrr... use Fast Expand vs Uther in a tourney in France where he was invited with Thor. | ||
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Vin{MBL}
5185 Posts
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Polemarch
Canada1564 Posts
like i remember a couple games using ghosts with lockdown tvp to counter carriers, then hallucination to counter lockdown (carriers clumped together so ghosts can't tell which ones are real), then EMP to counter that | ||
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~rOyAL~
New Zealand175 Posts
after that made 200/200 limit carriers with all upgrades it took me like 1 hour mabey more and after that made cannons all over mai base surround and then attack nad like after 1.30-2.00 hours i attacked | ||
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Piste
6175 Posts
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strik.fr
France212 Posts
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Polis
Poland1292 Posts
It maybe suprising but almost nobady made defence in 2v2 games that I had played, most zerg just go fast muta whithout lings, terrans marines/fierbats.Game was fun to me because I didn't care about my speed just about my decision making and I didn't have to be fast to be above average I didn't think about the fact that I was limited whit my speed. | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
Mass Zeals/Marines into mass Reavers/Carriers/BC's. Zerg wast 1hatch muta always in teamplay | ||
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pyrogenetix
China5094 Posts
goons was "high tech" didnt know abt upgrades wtf are spells? computers were unbeatable always forge before gate 9 cannons was a mediocre number never expand 8 probes only yea... then i played a little more like fastest but then it was still like 100 cannons then maxout on 3-3-3 carriers... | ||
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nysikto
Norway337 Posts
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BrutalMenace
United States1237 Posts
On October 03 2006 22:38 WhatisProtoss wrote: ExecutorZileas, the #1 Beta BroodWar player before Korean-pros created many Terran and Protoss strategies, employing a lot of templar usage. He published a lot of strategy guide build orders online. hah i remember when i was protoss newbie before i realized T will be the race i play 15,000 lt & non money games, I read all the reports on battle.net and then i stalked Zileas on his website and he was like oh i dont play SC anymore but he gave me some storm tips that are very effective. Storm the front guy, etc. | ||
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bearnet2001
Argentina335 Posts
The best part about him is that, since all his strategies were written as battereports and submitted to the website, they all have exact dates of posting, so you know exactly when, at the latest, he knew about these strategies. Unlike saying 'well boxer knew about this early on', we have, to the day, when Heartcutter had these strategies down. By 1999 he had come to these conclusions: TvZ: Go m&m, getting to 3/3 fast, and mass science vessels. Effectively SK terran, but in 1999. TvP: Go for a wallin (LT) with 3 marines at the choke, then 2 factories with mines and tanks. Also published a 'deep six' guide, talking about using mass tanks (skipping vultures except for the very first one produced) to fight off mass goon containment. TvT: Pure metal, along with wraiths. He earlier used m&m, but found it ineffective. Again this is the standard strategy nowadays (or some variant thereof), but he had it written down in mid 1999. -- If you want to read through his battlereports check out http://www.battlereports.com/search.php?author=heartcutter He's also credited on the battlereport website as an 'originator of many terran strategies'. Basically, Heartcutter had decided upon the main strategies used today and even codified them in battlereport strategy posts, back in 1999. And the dating is undisputable: the battelreport is timestamped when it is submitted, so its not subjective like 'I think X knew about Y strategy back around 99/2000', its to the day | ||
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bearnet2001
Argentina335 Posts
It's all written down and even codified in 'strategy reports'. Check it out at http://www.battlereports.com/search.php?author=heartcutter | ||
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Leath
Canada1724 Posts
Shame that those koreans kidnapped me and forced me to tell the secrets. On my way back I asked for my lawyer if I had a case of egame copyright, but he denied. Later on I found out the reason for his negative attitude was that he played SC as well, and was making good use of all the BOs.  GG No one remembers me though, cuz my name was hard to spell. =( NebuchadnezzarSchwarzenegger Seriously, I used to use the computer as a role model, and thought that a combination of all units force and special abilities was the key to success. So usually I would go 2 barracks, 1 fac, exp, start port, fac, sci, star port. And go around making ghosts, bcs, tanks, mnm, vults, goliath with all the reaseaches. Then try to use them all to my best. Optic flare on observers, lockdwn carriers, irradiate mutas, nuke ccs, etc Didnt win too many games ;p | ||
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~chut~
France1317 Posts
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artofmagic
United States1951 Posts
waiting for rekrul's answer.. | ||
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Chill
Calgary25980 Posts
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NonYold
United States2814 Posts
On October 04 2006 07:24 nysikto wrote: garimto and rA camed up with most of the tactics for p i'd say grrrr... and garimto. ra came up with nothing really | ||
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Norway
United States341 Posts
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akamufu
Korea (South)321 Posts
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Leath
Canada1724 Posts
I have no clue why they call it that way. But Vanilla sc = no BW | ||
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On October 04 2006 07:49 bearnet2001 wrote: TvP: Go for a wallin (LT) with 3 marines at the choke, then 2 factories with mines and tanks. Also published a 'deep six' guide, talking about using mass tanks (skipping vultures except for the very first one produced) to fight off mass goon containment. Er... That's not what Deep Six was. | ||
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akamufu
Korea (South)321 Posts
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scrapperdog
United States779 Posts
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
On September 30 2006 16:52 travis wrote: i was playing bgh 2v2 with my friend mostly i went mass marines every game later i became friends with members of the playaz clan and started playing mostly protoss, and my game was pretty good for a bgh player then wtf? who were you? I am $playaz$-Syn / $playaz$-Wubby | ||
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Alborz
Canada1551 Posts
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sweatpants
United States940 Posts
Z: mass hydra P: mass cannon, mass carrier T: mass wall, mass BC You mean a game outside of mass showdowns existed?? | ||
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yokohama
United States1116 Posts
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skyglow1
New Zealand3962 Posts
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maleorderbride
United States2916 Posts
On October 04 2006 18:20 Mindcrime wrote: [/B][removed quote within quote]B]On October 04 2006 07:49 bearnet2001 wrote: TvP: Go for a wallin (LT) with 3 marines at the choke, then 2 factories with mines and tanks. Also published a 'deep six' guide, talking about using mass tanks (skipping vultures except for the very first one produced) to fight off mass goon containment. Er... That's not what Deep Six was.[/QUOTE] yea deep six was wallin in then going 6 barracks m&m vs toss....I remember reading that battlereport when it came out. Sadly, I played protoss for the next 5 years after that, but finally was able to do it to FA one day. Heart cutter still plays too, he is on my f list on west! (as if i still play though =/) i cant find my SC CD, only my BW one... | ||
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OverTheUnder
United States2929 Posts
On October 04 2006 23:11 maleorderbride wrote: [removed quote within quote] yea deep six was wallin in then going 6 barracks m&m vs toss....I remember reading that battlereport when it came out. Sadly, I played protoss for the next 5 years after that, but finally was able to do it to FA one day. Heart cutter still plays too, he is on my f list on west! (as if i still play though =/) i cant find my SC CD, only my BW one... orly? he any good?:D | ||
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Fedaykin
Netherlands2003 Posts
On October 04 2006 14:29 Leath wrote: Its the original SC akamufu. I have no clue why they call it that way. But Vanilla sc = no BW Does anyone have a clue why they call it that....? On October 04 2006 22:13 RaGnArOkY wrote: Did anyone ever use those old Ladder maps besides Lost Temple? I played rivalry a lot iirc | ||
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potchip
Australia260 Posts
On September 30 2006 19:16 Chill wrote: Concave Hydra contain to Guardians. My build zvt exactly! Also + a few ovies for detecting cloaked wraiths...And i thought i had all bases covered, wel tend to work most of the time 2. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On October 04 2006 18:50 Teroru wrote: [removed quote within quote] wtf? who were you? I am $playaz$-Syn / $playaz$-Wubby lol i have no clue what name i used back then sorry I faintly remember both of the names u listed i wasn't in playaz, myself. I played alot of bgh with diablo, and played alot of LT with... was his name xeros? xeno? I think he was probably the best player in the clan. i also remember playing alot with god-of-w@r.. at least I think that was his name. he was pretty good back then | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13005 Posts
Id do it vs all 3 race, and I used to think Terrans who went MnM were so hard to beat =] Terran was mass Wraith. Protoss..? I think everyone just went carriers cause they = instant win. | ||
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garandou
Germany518 Posts
On October 05 2006 00:26 Fedaykin wrote: Does anyone have a clue why they call it that....? "One major use of vanilla is in flavoring ice cream: the most common flavour of ice cream is vanilla, and thus most people consider it to be the "default" flavor. By analogy, the term "plain vanilla" or just "vanilla" is used as a synonym for "plain"." ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanilla ) | ||
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TiQ.SinGi
Norway385 Posts
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WOstick
Norway433 Posts
then started bitching when i got raped before building a single unit, so i demanded island maps. didnt work. | ||
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Dexxus
United States329 Posts
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Resonate
United Kingdom8402 Posts
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tKd_
United States2916 Posts
of course you can do it with drones but for me its more micro that relies on 3 drones, drone drill. w/e | ||
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Newbistic
China2912 Posts
I only started playing at about 1.07/1.08 (2001-ish?) and most of the maps were either shared bases or predecessors of Fastest Possible... Kept running my marine/firebat "armies" into masses of cannons at chokes, I thought lining your base perimeter with cannons/turrets was hardcore gosu and what experts all did. Then I learned the 12 stargate/24 carrier no rush 15, and then I thought I was god -.-'' | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
haha xD edit: OMG I"M A DRAGOON! YAY :DDDDDDDD | ||
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[jOyO]
United States920 Posts
you know, like power overwhelming and food for thought then mass MC to win lol. i remember always wondering what stasis field was and when i used it for the first time i thought i could nuke then stasis the ghost ad it would still fall. | ||
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Hyakuren
Australia32 Posts
On October 04 2006 18:50 Mora wrote: wtf? who were you? I am $playaz$-Syn / $playaz$-Wubby I was $playaz$-XR / $Playaz$-ShielD. ended up joining Proxi clan in Aus as Proxi.mity. Where are GSR, Crazed, Diablo, Romeo, Club, Sabre? I ended up taking powerbunny for long time after his account dropped off. | ||
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Leonix
161 Posts
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