|
This is a game I played, and after I saw his core went up, I moved to a fast expansion build. I speculated that it would be safe consider core=goons and it was cross map position on Nostalgia, which is pretty far away.
To my delight, his one gate goon build did not manage to take down my fast expansion with my probes support. And afterward I proceeded the game with superior macro and wins.
My point:
Is it safe to go for dual gate(make him scare of zeals), and once he scouted you at cross position, he would slap down a core, cuz its far away(so he need not worry about your zeals yet). Then he would be expecting some zealot rushes(normally comes with dual gate), but instead you slap down a core as well and expo. Sent probe scout, build army when your probe dies to his men. Due to the fact your gateway number is suffice(I made three), it will be enough to churn out a sufficient amount of army once his army arrives. It is somewhat like zerg morphing sunkens when terran push out. Kind of. Then fend off your attackers, and voala! you get your free fast expo and superior gateways already.
I'm not sure if this thing works, I believe if he scouts well, this build would get smashed hardcore. But luckily some people tend to slack off on scouting, and this strat might work once in a while? It's like some kind of cheese, in a way.
Comments, Concerns, Flames?
http://www.battlereports.com/viewreplays.php?replaynum=29035
P.S
HOW DID I DO?
edit:
typos and misleading grammars 
|
no, I don't think fast expo counters core.. you won't be able to hold it often enough
edit: sadly i know nothing of pvp
|
On August 16 2005 21:49 GroT wrote:
no, I don't think fast expo counters core.. you won't be able to hold it often enough
edit: sadly i know nothing of pvp
did you watch my replay? xD
|
nop and you are right, I'm kind of setting a bad example, i shouldn't giving advice when I'm not knowledgable about the subject :p
|
I think fast expo works very well against 1 gate in cross map positions, I dont think it stops it in close positions of anykind, and is too risky if they 2 gate afterwords anyway.
(I cant download right now, i'll watch your replay when I can change computers)
|
if u fast exp dont get more gates than him because you need to tech too =[
|
On August 16 2005 21:58 FroZZoR wrote:
if u fast exp dont get more gates than him because you need to tech too =[
I guess you are correct. He did this reaver drop on me which kind of setting me back significantly, almost the save level as he was after his reaver went off in my base xD
I guess I should've get 3 goons by my main the whole time and 1 cannon each at my main/expo nat before robo, i speculate obs would be too slow if I was to be caught with my pants down with DTs. xD
O btw, thx for changing the title grot. I didnt like my old title too much actually.
Why doesnt TL.net grant us the power to alter titles? I mean as a thread starter and he can edit the body why not the title as well?
|
Well Fast expansion is easily countered with 3 gate goon reaver so no its not a good idea. Theres no way you can have the ability to stop ranged goons on your cliff and a goon reaver cliff. You wont have the tech or units (and most likely both). Theres a reason you never see it in pro PvPs. But at mid level play it works great to open standard 2 gate then pump zealots while you nexus then forge/gas at the same time...pylon front...core...then 2 cannons. From there you just mass up from 4 gates while teching to robo and hope he didnt do some gay cliff cannoning shit. Even if he does you will usually win the only problem is if he does a strong goon/reaver push or something lame like dt drop or if manages to take down your cannons and sneak dt in. But all in all fast expansion has way too many weaknesses to make it worth it. No I didnt watch your replay but i dont really need to.
|
fast expo on nostalgia cross positions is playable. However it is not a counter to core.
|
you can fast expo at that point in the game. the trick is balancing your resources correctly to prepare for whatever he's doing next. if he is going for some fast frontal goon attack then using probes to defend is mandatory
|
the toss should just cannon ur ledge then double expo if it's on lost temple :p
|
On August 17 2005 07:34 RandomCat wrote:
the toss should just cannon ur ledge then double expo if it's on lost temple :p
cannon ledge + taking both islands =D
|
Sweden33719 Posts
On August 16 2005 23:16 Echo wrote:
Well Fast expansion is easily countered with 3 gate goon reaver so no its not a good idea. Theres no way you can have the ability to stop ranged goons on your cliff and a goon reaver cliff. You wont have the tech or units (and most likely both). Theres a reason you never see it in pro PvPs. But at mid level play it works great to open standard 2 gate then pump zealots while you nexus then forge/gas at the same time...pylon front...core...then 2 cannons. From there you just mass up from 4 gates while teching to robo and hope he didnt do some gay cliff cannoning shit. Even if he does you will usually win the only problem is if he does a strong goon/reaver push or something lame like dt drop or if manages to take down your cannons and sneak dt in. But all in all fast expansion has way too many weaknesses to make it worth it. No I didnt watch your replay but i dont really need to.
Reaver goon sucks fucking arse at attacking cross the bridges on nostalgia. You can expand a loooooot faster on nost PvP than other maps (like 1 gate range expo into 3 gate or whatever) ;o
|
On August 17 2005 08:40 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2005 23:16 Echo wrote:
Well Fast expansion is easily countered with 3 gate goon reaver so no its not a good idea. Theres no way you can have the ability to stop ranged goons on your cliff and a goon reaver cliff. You wont have the tech or units (and most likely both). Theres a reason you never see it in pro PvPs. But at mid level play it works great to open standard 2 gate then pump zealots while you nexus then forge/gas at the same time...pylon front...core...then 2 cannons. From there you just mass up from 4 gates while teching to robo and hope he didnt do some gay cliff cannoning shit. Even if he does you will usually win the only problem is if he does a strong goon/reaver push or something lame like dt drop or if manages to take down your cannons and sneak dt in. But all in all fast expansion has way too many weaknesses to make it worth it. No I didnt watch your replay but i dont really need to. Reaver goon sucks fucking arse at attacking cross the bridges on nostalgia. You can expand a loooooot faster on nost PvP than other maps (like 1 gate range expo into 3 gate or whatever) ;o
Hmm my bad...ya i know this...I just didnt read anything but the thread title and "My point" and I didn't watch the replay. So i missed the sentence about the bridges in nost....whoops
|
On August 17 2005 08:38 FroST(TE) wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2005 07:34 RandomCat wrote:
the toss should just cannon ur ledge then double expo if it's on lost temple :p cannon ledge + taking both islands =D
please watch replay first before comment, my post and my replay is strictly on the map 'NOSTALGIA' and not lost temple.
|
you can do the same on LT depending on the situation...
|
Korea (South)1740 Posts
dt obviously is a problem, even relatively late
further i believe you should have lost this game if your opponent knew how to micro properly
after he hurt you with his reaver, if he just kept that shuttle/reav alive, and played safe from there he would've been in the advantage. instead he needlessly lost it then proceeded to have terrible fights where you actually took advantage of the bridges instead of him, even in front of his base 8(
in other words it wasn't the FE imo that won you the game but you just outplaying your opponent =+=
|
You go 2gate, see other guy core, so you give up your 2gate and go goon tech.
instead of continual unit production you go for anther gate and range first, some goons then expo.
"it will be enough to churn out a sufficient amount of army once his army arrives" You actually did pretty poorly on this point. You had 3rangegoons/1z when he could have had 5rangegoons attacking you with an earlyrange->2nd gate offensive style. Later, 5g/1z vs his 7goon attacking you as well. Not a good position to be in.
Of course, you could have been beaten by fast dt as well.
To give others an idea of your play, played out by a better player, it would probably have been 2gate goon range build -> expo to whatever. The fact that you went 2 gate could affect things, but i dont want to go into all the possibilities.
|
On August 17 2005 17:12 Knickknack wrote:
You go 2gate, see other guy core, so you give up your 2gate and go goon tech.
instead of continual unit production you go for anther gate and range first, some goons then expo.
"it will be enough to churn out a sufficient amount of army once his army arrives" You actually did pretty poorly on this point. You had 3rangegoons/1z when he could have had 5rangegoons attacking you with an earlyrange->2nd gate offensive style. Later, 5g/1z vs his 7goon attacking you as well. Not a good position to be in.
Of course, you could have been beaten by fast dt as well.
To give others an idea of your play, played out by a better player, it would probably have been 2gate goon range build -> expo to whatever. The fact that you went 2 gate could affect things, but i dont want to go into all the possibilities.
You are right in everyway on why this strat is flawed. You assume he knows what I'm up to but he didnt, though. you can play cheesy while he's blind. Soo much to gain due to his lack of scouting! He didnt go DT, he didnt even fast reaver, he went for OBs instead. GoodFriend did this 1 marine expo vs some zerg, and it works when his opponent is not paying attention.
I guess that the time that he figures out what I'm up to would be too late to stop me because that a probe moves so slowly across the map to see what's going on. x]
But I should'nt let that reaver went off at my main that's really dumb :D
|
fast expo is shitty.. unless your playing someone whos mouse is unplugged
|
Fast expo PvP is usually pretty stupid. The only reason it works is when your opponent doesn't know how to react. It's been done to me before, simply because my opponent and I knew each other, and they knew that I wouldn't stop it because I didn't know how (I know, I know...).
Generally, a Protoss player will start a second gate after their first goon, and if they see a fast expo, they'll probably just start range and a third gate, rally everything to your choke, and start pouding on you. :D
|
right. it's amazing how even though you have a great income, and had a decent army, they just owned that army and are owning every individual goon / zeal that's coming from your gates, and you just can't catch up no matter how hard you try due to reinforcements.
i think some people need to see that sort of shit for themselves. after i did, i never early exped PvP again.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
