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we talked a lot about ghosts tvp and some said that it was similar to queen zvt.
i looked in the search function before posting this but there is like 1150 threads when i type "queens". just delete if it has been answered and pm the link to previous thread plz 
zvt- ensnare mnm or broodling tanks? maybe broodling medics if there are a few? parasite is kinda useless because of restore...
for the infested terran part... i think i used it once in my life and it was because i knew i was gonna win, otherwise i dont think they are just bad... maybe if they had 10 armor :o
zvp- pretty much the same as zvt.. does ensnare worth it?
broodling on templars .. ? kinda useless if there are too many temps.. you are not going to have like 8 queen ready to cast broodling on every temp you see right?..
parasite can be very effective on special units like archon shuttle carrier etc..
queen's nest is in the path of the hive anyway so you dont have to build many buildings just to get queens. i think the biggest problem is of course the micro part.. but every spell caster requires micro eh!
anyway, what do you guys think about that?
queen = cost effective or not?
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Belgium3003 Posts
ensnaring M&M is IMO the most efficient way to use your queens in ZvT, mostly because of the lower energy cost
Parasite definetly isn't useless, restore costs money and parasite doesn't. Meanwhile, parasiting science vessels takes advantage of the extremely high value of vessels and the originality of your play (nobody is gonna research restore in advance to counter parasite)
not gonna comment on zvp but I'm sure others will !
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Belgium3003 Posts
oh and yes, I definetly think queens are cost effective, in fact they have almost everything that makes a unit good in my book: mobility, effectiveness, extremely low cost, very low tech, very quickly takes effect
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Belgium3003 Posts
also I would usually close a already often debated subject, but queens really need even more attention apparantly
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Norway28665 Posts
very cost effective.
just keep two queens hotkeyed on 0 and throw ensnare before every major battle, it's very very doable, doesn't take much micro and if you already have a queens nest, it costs you 300/300, which is a neglectable cost.
infesting command centres is also absolutely great, and it generally pisses people off and makes them kinda lose hope.
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I researched restore before! ....on accident
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when i've had queens used on me, ensnare was a bitch to deal with. broodling is equally effective, but hard to micro. sending in individual queens will result in them being shot down, and their broodles dont work if they die first. one use i can think of for infested terran would be to drop a few for insta-CC kill, or maybe even supply depots. you will have a hard time trying to get one in the middle of your opponent's forces though, but they would be great harass units. (drop in min line!)
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Infest command center is very good, imo, better than killing it.
Because
1. It is easier to get CC to yellow health than to kill it.
2. It requires ur opponent to kill the infested CC before construction a new one at good mining position.
3. It make your opponent embarrased
4. If you are able to take the infested CC back alive, such as you raid terran;s Island expo, Infested Terran are great stuff! 10 times stronger than a zealot bomb!
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i think later on in ZvP u can use queens very awesomely in ur contain .... i dont think getting 8 would be that much money if u space it out welll ... not talking about building 8 at one time tho.... just 8 when they get to that part of the game where theyll get 8 in one army ..
ensnare+ broodling temps .. gogogog
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i will post a zvt rep later on that demonstrate a great use of queen
i think some will appreciate it even if its not a high skill game
for the moment i must leave T_T
bybye~
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Are there any pro reps that demonstrate use of queens efficiently?
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ret owned me zvt with mass queens T.T
4 or 5 lurkers and broodlinged all my tanks gg i couldnt leave my base :'(
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Not sure how viable, but in ZvP if queen can ensnare mass corsairs, that's dead queen pays for itself. Good time to do it would be when they attack your overlords. I think its unpraticial in real game, but would be cool if someone did pull it off. Also great against carriers that does hit and run tactics.
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almost impossible to stop a queens broodling... the range is huge.
no thanks vs lurker ling in a closed area is tough @@
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Norway28665 Posts
queens are a necessity when fighting against sair reaver. without it, the protoss can ALWAYS retreat from a losing battle and will thus never lose his units unless you have enough air to beat his sairs and cannons together.
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ya and dev/queen/mut owns erything in the air for low cost(but high tech)
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Ever seen ChoJJa uses Queens to infest the CC? Just attack the CC til yellow and it's done, I think it is way shorter.
Queens are underused! Let's fight for the Queen! LOL 
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well - Im too slow to both scourge and parasite the vessels
I think just scourging is better
plus most terrans pay back with an irradiate - and you lose an irradiate vs broodling battle, because irradiate is cheaper
broodlinging medics is pointless, if he has few medics probably the 1,5ultra would be better or 3lurks (not sure, depends on the game), I think it is still too microintensive to be worth
infested terrans would rock if they had 80hp and changed ai (now they attack move - and explode on selected location, so you need to order them to attack an unit)
On May 31 2005 23:46 [X]Ken_D wrote:
Not sure how viable, but in ZvP if queen can ensnare mass corsairs, that's dead queen pays for itself. Good time to do it would be when they attack your overlords. I think its unpraticial in real game, but would be cool if someone did pull it off. Also great against carriers that does hit and run tactics.
I think Blackman used queens on gorky in the games vs Misc.
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is awesome32274 Posts
On May 31 2005 14:57 GroT wrote:
oh and yes, I definetly think queens are cost effective, in fact they have almost everything that makes a unit good in my book: mobility, effectiveness, extremely low cost, very low tech, very quickly takes effect
good range for spells, good sight range.
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oh yeah and also queens are THE ultimate counter for carriers
parasite owns because you can always see where the fleet is going, so you are never caught unprepared, that and it makes it much much easier to scourge them
ensnared carriers are slowed to a crawl
its much easier to plague the damn things when you see them coming a mile away
*as usual, edited for clarity :[
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Just lockdown all the interceptors. The carriers are noth.... Oh, wrong thread.
Of course people need to use queens more. You should have queens nest anyway. It just becomes a matter of researching abilities and building a few queens. Parasite is so effective if you do it on high cost units, ensnare is a gamebraker with its effect of slowing cooldown time, (great against mnms) and 12 muta+queen to quickly steal a CC is enough to demoralize your opponent into submission. It only takes 2 infested terrans to blow supply depos into the air. It is more cost effective than a defiler and lower tech, so... why not use it? Not to mention that its range rivals that of a sieged siege tank... Ooo, im getting all excited just thinking about it!
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When is the ideal time to get queens?
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Norway28665 Posts
when you have a queens nest, enough units to beat down an immediate attack (basically unless you need 3 lurkers and 6 lings to repel the attack, getting ensnare is goodie. ) and 300/300. (ensnare+two queens.)
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So sometime after your first lurks or so?
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Norway28665 Posts
depends on if you spire before or after lurk. you usually want scourge before queen.
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Did anyone see Jju vs iloveoov game 1 UZOO MSL?
Oov was owning Jju with early cloak wraith build then suddenly a queen enters the scene, ensnares about 12+ cloaked wraiths and they get decimated by muta+scourge. Oov types GG about a min after. Very fun game!
The commentators were saying how queens are considered effective vs cloaked wraiths only in theory, but were left speechless when this happened.
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Where can we Dl the vod of this game?
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yeah .. where can we get the jju vs oov vod? think it's great owning with a queen....
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If you are lucky, you can infest an expo by attacking it when its flying towards the spot and before he gets turrets up. I use infest more to get rid of the cc, less then to get infested terrans but it also adds a psych factor to the game to let the terran know that you have infesteds.
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seriously without dark swarm, infested are too weak and cannot reach their target unless its not defended (if you are lucky)
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when i sucked slightly less than i do now;), i used to get owned by fast tanks so frequently, and i stubbornly refused to ever go mutas so id just get queens nest right after lair to broodling the first tank and then parasite the first vessel
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is awesome32274 Posts
On June 01 2005 16:34 baba1 wrote:
seriously without dark swarm, infested are too weak and cannot reach their target unless its not defended (if you are lucky)
Research drops-> send more some infested inside some of them along some lings / units for distraction
Drop get all his supplys/cc/scv/barracks
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parasite is nice in ZvZ.. one time i played , i was suspected of map hacking... he was so annoyed when i attack so timely after his muta goes out of his base............ and after a while he noticed one of his muta has parasite.... ^^
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On June 01 2005 22:15 ZiNiZTeR wrote:
parasite is nice in ZvZ.. one time i played , i was suspected of map hacking... he was so annoyed when i attack so timely after his muta goes out of his base............ and after a while he noticed one of his muta has parasite.... ^^
Queens in ZvZ are an interesting concept. While principially queens would be strongest in this MU (Parasite, Ensare vs mutas is teh gay), ZvZ games tend to be really tight muta/ling/scourge battles with low supply situations galore. Mutas simply cannot be good, when you only got 34 supply, Another three mutas or another hotkey lings would be preferable in this situation.
However, combined with hydras, they are *really* good. Problem remains, that the hydras themselves suck, so no real deal here either. ;-)
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Broodlinging a protoss' high templar, even if you don't kill all of them, can probably frustrate them a lot and cause them to make mistakes because of this. Also, if you take out half of his high templar before a battle, that's half the amount of storms you have to dodge.
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*applaudes the theorycraft*
Few smart points here though, too bad I don't play Z.
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On June 02 2005 07:54 TserHossHiBreed wrote:
*applaudes the theorycraft*
Few smart points here though, too bad I don't play Z.
Thanks for your informative post.
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I've got beaten PvZ a couple of times by mass hydra + queen. Every time I think about it I find it stranger why it isn't used Z v P. The standard counter to mass hydra is HTs. By the time you have a couple of HT, the zerg has a couple of queens with broodling resarched, and it's GG. If it's not instant GG, esnare + broodling is the perfect counter to speedlots + DTs + HTs midgame.
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On June 02 2005 10:51 [CS]Pablo wrote:
I've got beaten PvZ a couple of times by mass hydra + queen. Every time I think about it I find it stranger why it isn't used Z v P. The standard counter to mass hydra is HTs. By the time you have a couple of HT, the zerg has a couple of queens with broodling resarched, and it's GG. If it's not instant GG, esnare + broodling is the perfect counter to speedlots + DTs + HTs midgame.
Well, HTs are like cockroaches, you never get'em all and if one or two survive, they can spoil your day. Same argument why emp doesn't work vs HTs. + The tech tree leading to DAs from DTs isn't really all that steep. I've built DAs in PvZs for lesser reasons then queens flying around and being a pain. Combine this with Macro+micro for toss being extremely simple, micro+game decisions extremely hard for Z, and you have the reasons why few zerg are stupid enough to counter templar tech with hydra queen :o
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On May 31 2005 23:34 lil.sis wrote:
ret owned me zvt with mass queens T.T
4 or 5 lurkers and broodlinged all my tanks gg i couldnt leave my base :'(
sounds like something that woman liker would do -.-;
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ROFL
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hmm.. come to think of it i havn't seen a queen used against me in a very long time. But in use map settings micro games, ensnare can make mnm useless!! So yea GO THE QUEENS!!!!~
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Whenever i play ZvP as soon as i am able to build it. I do, its worth it anyways.
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On June 01 2005 15:43 FireBlast! wrote:
Did anyone see Jju vs iloveoov game 1 UZOO MSL?
Oov was owning Jju with early cloak wraith build then suddenly a queen enters the scene, ensnares about 12+ cloaked wraiths and they get decimated by muta+scourge. Oov types GG about a min after. Very fun game!
The commentators were saying how queens are considered effective vs cloaked wraiths only in theory, but were left speechless when this happened.
You have a VOD of it? I'd love to see it
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On June 01 2005 22:15 ZiNiZTeR wrote:
parasite is nice in ZvZ.. one time i played , i was suspected of map hacking... he was so annoyed when i attack so timely after his muta goes out of his base............ and after a while he noticed one of his muta has parasite.... ^^
how the hell didnt he notice it?
parasited units have green wireframe and controlling mutas is like 20% of the actions in zvz O_O
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On June 03 2005 07:09 koehli wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2005 10:51 [CS]Pablo wrote:
I've got beaten PvZ a couple of times by mass hydra + queen. Every time I think about it I find it stranger why it isn't used Z v P. The standard counter to mass hydra is HTs. By the time you have a couple of HT, the zerg has a couple of queens with broodling resarched, and it's GG. If it's not instant GG, esnare + broodling is the perfect counter to speedlots + DTs + HTs midgame. Well, HTs are like cockroaches, you never get'em all and if one or two survive, they can spoil your day. Same argument why emp doesn't work vs HTs. + The tech tree leading to DAs from DTs isn't really all that steep. I've built DAs in PvZs for lesser reasons then queens flying around and being a pain. Combine this with Macro+micro for toss being extremely simple, micro+game decisions extremely hard for Z, and you have the reasons why few zerg are stupid enough to counter templar tech with hydra queen :o
it's not like the Z must kill all the HTs, but more the other way around. Specially in the first hydra attack, usually the P is the one that needs all the (usually 2 or 3) HTs that he can get. Even killing 1 or 2 may twist the battle to zerg's favour big time. 4-hatch hydra is very little gas-intensive, so if you have two gasses you probably would have 4 or 5 hydras less for getting the queen's nest, a couple of queens and researched broodling.Trading that for two less storms is a great deal IMHO.
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On June 04 2005 16:05 decafchicken wrote:LMAO <3 the art
that was cute
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i remember way back
pvz on dire same thing over and over again
people would make queens and broodling my temps
i'd keep making temps and keep expanding and hold my stuff
he'd give up and go guards
i'd make speedscouts and slap him
or
people would make queens and try to scourge my shuttles
i'd get hallucinate and eventually secure an exp
he'd go guards
i'd make speedscouts and slap him
i think queens vs t ground is good
queens vs p ground is pretty bad, he can keep making templar and expand at will as you slow your movement towards defiler
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United States10774 Posts
Queens are good, but defilers are better so that's why they are not used very often. But then again, it would be viable.
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another good queen game was Nal_ra vs JJu on u-boat in the semis of the starleague nalra won. JJu went queen muta scourge and almost won nalra on islands when nalra was tha man.
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On June 05 2005 08:26 Casper... wrote:
i remember way back
pvz on dire same thing over and over again
people would make queens and broodling my temps
i'd keep making temps and keep expanding and hold my stuff
he'd give up and go guards
i'd make speedscouts and slap him
or
people would make queens and try to scourge my shuttles
i'd get hallucinate and eventually secure an exp
he'd go guards
i'd make speedscouts and slap him
i think queens vs t ground is good
queens vs p ground is pretty bad, he can keep making templar and expand at will as you slow your movement towards defiler
holy fuck a casper post longer than three lines
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Queens are nice. Broodling and stuff has niiiice range. Also you can parasite an archon or two in zvp to follow their force. Ensnare also owns M&M and zeals.
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EPT
