The third set of Jangbi vs Flash seemed to have Jangbi opening a new build - 11 nexux 11 gateway 11 gas 13 core
Which cuts significantly more probes than the classic 12 nex variations. But this intrigues me - how does it work out? With 12 nex already being a heavy cutting build, doesnt this further cutting of probes of the 11 nexus make it inferior to 1 gate core builds? Due to slower probe production in main. It was visible too, that jangbi had a lower supply count than flash for a long time which is typically not the case in PvT.
Interesting. I often do 11 nex rather than 12 nex when i'm doing double nex builds. Can't tell you why i just felt smoother sometimes, though it might not be =S.
Gets you zealot and goon faster - if you think terran might bunker rush you/ proceed with vulture after. Also if terran 14cc it gives you a little more time to pressure his bunker with goons. Its safer then 12 nex, but ofc you lose a lil bit of mining because of it.
Looks like jangbi went for goon + range instead of zealot + 2nd gate as well. I dunno how well this'd do against a bunker rush. Your goon is faster, probably out in time to hit an scv making bunker? Not sure. the range is fast too. maybe it just gets goons and range in time to save the nexus from a bunker full of marines or something like that D: gonna give it a try tho
On August 28 2011 23:12 Kiante wrote: Looks like jangbi went for goon + range instead of zealot + 2nd gate as well. I dunno how well this'd do against a bunker rush. Your goon is faster, probably out in time to hit an scv making bunker? Not sure. the range is fast too. maybe it just gets goons and range in time to save the nexus from a bunker full of marines or something like that D: gonna give it a try tho
He made zealot after core was done and range started, that makes it even more strange. Personally I'd prefer goon + range and second gate. Maybe he proceeds with it dependable when his opponent scouts him. Dunno
Remember to consider he was playing flash and a lot of meta game stuff probably went into this, which might explain the lag of an early second gate. The 11nex might even be to prevent some flash specific timing/reaction. Anyway, in general it just seems a little bit safer than the 12nex at the cost of some early eco. Personally, I don't like these early nex builds in pvt because I feel like I lose momentum by not being able to put on pressure and get early map control.
the resource use was in sync with what was going on - nex on map same time as resource go down with population - and population remained 11 for a long time, after nex
It was 11-11-11 for a long time because he wanted to get his core timing as fast as possible, the zealot was just before the core though. I don't like this specific build, but I think he was anticipating rax cc from flash, and this seems like a decent timing counter to it.
The reason I don't like the build is because if you go for an econ play, why would you cut econ to get faster tech? Do one or the other, if you walk down the middle line you are getting the worst of both worlds.
Not the first time I've seen it. It was used vs. Savior on Afreeca in a PvZ. 11 nex, 11 forge, 11 cannon (lol) so this is similar. I've used it before, actually, in PvT. I did 11 nex, 13 gate, though, I believe.
I think jangbi was going for 2 gate doble expo but, since Flash scouted the probe, he decided to 4 gate pressure him. I'm pretty sure flash had no idea its going to be a bulldog attack
On August 29 2011 01:31 Harem wrote: Err, just you know, you can't go off the OSL counting station for Build Orders.
There is a delay so it doesn't match-up with what is currently on screen. (read: not 11nex)
The OSL supply counter does not count units that are in the process of being warped/trained/morphed. The announcers used to talk about this a bit when the first introduced the counter.
On August 29 2011 01:31 Harem wrote: Err, just you know, you can't go off the OSL counting station for Build Orders.
There is a delay so it doesn't match-up with what is currently on screen. (read: not 11nex)
The OSL supply counter does not count units that are in the process of being warped/trained/morphed. The announcers used to talk about this a bit when the first introduced the counter.
Thus the build is a normal 12 nex.
It was then maybe 12 nexus, watch the mineral counter, when it goes 400 nexus is being put down, and in next 20 seconds unit counter does change(time it takes probe being done), so you're perhaps not wrong if what you're saying is true.
On August 29 2011 01:31 Harem wrote: Err, just you know, you can't go off the OSL counting station for Build Orders.
There is a delay so it doesn't match-up with what is currently on screen. (read: not 11nex)
The OSL supply counter does not count units that are in the process of being warped/trained/morphed. The announcers used to talk about this a bit when the first introduced the counter.
Thus the build is a normal 12 nex.
It was then maybe 12 nexus, watch the mineral counter, when it goes 400 nexus is being put down, and in next 20 seconds unit counter does change(time it takes probe being done), so you're perhaps not wrong if what you're saying is true.
Uhh yeah the mineral counter changes. It goes down by 150. Guess what building that is... And then goes down by 50, again what building might that be? And then goes down by 10. Seems to support my the hypothesis of 11 nexux 11 gateway 12 gas 13 core , not refute it.
On August 29 2011 01:31 Harem wrote: Err, just you know, you can't go off the OSL counting station for Build Orders.
There is a delay so it doesn't match-up with what is currently on screen. (read: not 11nex)
The OSL supply counter does not count units that are in the process of being warped/trained/morphed. The announcers used to talk about this a bit when the first introduced the counter.
Thus the build is a normal 12 nex.
It was then maybe 12 nexus, watch the mineral counter, when it goes 400 nexus is being put down, and in next 20 seconds unit counter does change(time it takes probe being done), so you're perhaps not wrong if what you're saying is true.
Uhh yeah the mineral counter changes. It goes down by 150. Guess what building that is... And then goes down by 50, again what building might that be? And then goes down by 10. Seems to support my the hypothesis of 11 nexux 11 gateway 12 gas 13 core , not refute it.
What I mean is, perhaps its 12th probe or 13th probe being made depending if what he said is true, I did not agreed with him, and we can't really tell if he queued probes when they showed the tearing flash picture. Anyway I don't like the idea of 11 nexus and I don't see any other idea behind it vs Flash then maybe some sorta metagame or to defend expected fast bunker rush that should come for sure, I wouldn't use it for sure.
On August 29 2011 01:31 Harem wrote: Err, just you know, you can't go off the OSL counting station for Build Orders.
There is a delay so it doesn't match-up with what is currently on screen. (read: not 11nex)
The OSL supply counter does not count units that are in the process of being warped/trained/morphed. The announcers used to talk about this a bit when the first introduced the counter.
Thus the build is a normal 12 nex.
It was then maybe 12 nexus, watch the mineral counter, when it goes 400 nexus is being put down, and in next 20 seconds unit counter does change(time it takes probe being done), so you're perhaps not wrong if what you're saying is true.
Uhh yeah the mineral counter changes. It goes down by 150. Guess what building that is... And then goes down by 50, again what building might that be? And then goes down by 10. Seems to support my the hypothesis of 11 nexux 11 gateway 12 gas 13 core , not refute it.
sorry about that, I rewatched the video, and it is an 11 nexus. It does seem that it is to block any possible bunker rush by getting the gateway up as soon as possible. It should also be noted that Jangbi hold off his scout for a very long time (until 21 on the OSL unit counter, significantly long after the core) effectively recovering that lost mining time from the 11 nexus.
I suppose he could have skipped scouting with the 12 nexus too.
Not to be a prick, but my further review indicates that the core was built at 14, as the counter hit 14 almost immediately after the core is warped.
Jangbi's build is a 12 Nex. Normal BOs go off of the food count, which takes into account units still being built. OSL counter only counts units on the field.
The only things I believe Jangbi did differently normal 12-Nex(you can find the exact build order in the liquipedia), is that he didn't scout nor bother with the quick 2nd gate. So he was cheating more than usual fast-nex, leave him pretty vulnerable to any sort of one base terran shennanigans.
In short, Jangbi apparently gambled on Flash using a macro opening and he succeeded. If Flash went with anything aggressive, Jangbi's natural would've been in huge trouble.
EPT
