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KeSPA Rankings Aug 09 - Page 6

Forum Index > BW General
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Motiva
Profile Joined November 2007
United States1774 Posts
August 01 2009 18:50 GMT
#101
meh i hate to say it because i think it's a retarded topic but... if Jaedong were to win an OSL/MSL this season and Oz wins Proleague and that Kespa differential....... it's hard to not say he's actually not becomming bonjwa-like....
darktreb
Profile Joined May 2007
United States3019 Posts
August 01 2009 19:09 GMT
#102
Did we really need an arbitrary ranking system (made by Kespa no less) to tell us that Jaedong, the winner of the previous OSL and a semifinalist in both current Starleagues and co-winner of most games in Proleague is absolutely amazing right now? Nothing annoys me more than people catering stats, especially an arbitrary ranking system, to support their rguments.

Bonjwa is decided by watching players, not points. If JD beats Fantasy and then wins OSL (a near certainty he wins a ZvZ final) and also beats Bisu in the MSL finals (or some other player, but preferably Bisu), it will be very, very hard not to be overwhelmed by his dominance and start LEGITIMATELY using the most overused word on TL.

Certainly, if he wins both leagues, he is indisputably the greatest Zerg of all time.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-01 19:13:50
August 01 2009 19:13 GMT
#103
On August 02 2009 04:09 darktreb wrote:
Certainly, if he wins both leagues, he is indisputably the greatest Zerg of all time.

Was that ever in dispute? Jaedong firmly has the hold on greatest absolute play skill. The question was never "is Jaedong good enough?", but "is Jaedong dominant enough?".
Moderator
QuickStriker
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States3694 Posts
August 01 2009 19:14 GMT
#104
I am happy though of Canata's recent performance and his 19 rank upgrade!!! Congrats Canata!!!

But as for Jaedong over 3000 points.... wow.... but still, if this was BoxeR's days into today's point system, BoxeR would easily have over 3000! ^_^

And yes, it seems if JD wins both OSL and MSL this season plus OZ wins Proleague, we might actually see possibly over 4000 or 5000!?!?!?!? But.... that won't happen.... F-a-n-t-a-s-y!
www.twitch.tv/KoreanUsher
ForTheSwarm
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States556 Posts
August 01 2009 19:19 GMT
#105
On August 02 2009 04:14 QuickStriker wrote:
I am happy though of Canata's recent performance and his 19 rank upgrade!!! Congrats Canata!!!

But as for Jaedong over 3000 points.... wow.... but still, if this was BoxeR's days into today's point system, BoxeR would easily have over 3000! ^_^

And yes, it seems if JD wins both OSL and MSL this season plus OZ wins Proleague, we might actually see possibly over 4000 or 5000!?!?!?!? But.... that won't happen.... F-a-n-t-a-s-y!


Fantasy sucks more balls than your mom.

Just kidding, Lol, I'm just THE BIGGEST JD FAN BOY EVAR! (Stupid fantasy...)

Lee Jae Dong DESTROYING!!!
Whenever I see a dropship, my asshole tingles, because it knows whats coming... - TheAntZ
disciple
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
9071 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-01 19:29:54
August 01 2009 19:20 GMT
#106
On August 02 2009 03:42 DarkOptik wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 02 2009 01:32 disciple wrote:
On August 02 2009 00:25 Shikyo wrote:
On August 02 2009 00:15 disciple wrote:
Well Jd has all factors on his side, starting with the maps, and the fact that he most likely will have to zvz his way to the titles. Its true that there can only be one alpha zerg at the time. During TaekBang, Bisu and Stork had to face each other in the OSL, which denied Bisu from winning everything in one season. Back then Jaedong was having a hard time, but now the momentum is totally shifted.

As a loyal fanboy I will find positives in Bisu's current performance ,although he is eclipsed by Jaedong. KTY is holding his own, if he wins the MSL given the metagame today it will be a savior-style triumph. To stop the Jaedong madness, all KeSPa has to do is to launch 2 very TvZ friendly maps, but I think this time they want JD to become the icon the e-sport is missing for so long.


Well.. Heartbreak Ridge is TvZ favored. Byzantium 3 is TvZ favored. Destination is TvZ favored. Shades of Twilight is TvZ favored... I doubt that really is the problem. And it wouldn't make sense to make a completely impossible TvZ map (No gas natural, very difficult to defend third base that has the second gas), that wouldn't really be fair since even if JD won less, no other Zergs could do anything.

What I was trying to say is that if Jaedong is to win everything this season it will be a result of long chain of events. Of course the main reason will be his incredible performance this season (approx 80% win rate in all 3 MU), but some other stuff to mention is that protoss suck badly, not even that, but JangBi was retarded enough to speed up the downfall process by trying to gang on Bisu. Flash sucks heavily in TvZ, and his only real rivals this season (no, EffOrt isnt one) are Bisu and fantasy, who killed each other in the MSL.

Given the fact that Jaedong is not a sole dominating force in the scene (hello KTY) you have to admit it wont get any easier for JD to achieve all his hall of fame goals such as bonjwa status, golden mouse etc. If you want to win it all you have to play a lot of games ,right... Bisu was in the same situation a while back, but he was just out of his slump and no one considered his rising a bonjwa run till the point where he won 2 SLs back to back. Bisu had to face Stork in the OSL as well, and the gap between these two is considerably smaller in comparison with Jaedong and the next top zerg, which I dont even know who he is.

Personally I dont want it to happen for subjective reasons but I'm sure Jaedong will win all titles this season, he has everything on his side.


I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about; are you saying that the one of the reasons that Jaedong is winning everything this season is because everyone else...sucks? Your "Flash sucks heavily in TvZ" seems to be implying as such. As for "only real rivals": Bisu and Fantasy? Well, so? When you are at the very peak of the game, how many real rivals do you expect to have? Bisu's only real rival was Stork back when he was at his peak; one can argue perhaps Flash as well.

I'm also not particularly sure why you are bringing up Bisu's previous foray into "bonjwa-ness"; what merits does that comparison have?


Because Bisu got the necessary factors 2 season ago, to win everything all together, but he failed because he was not only one who was doing well in the current situations (6 dragons, Stork in particular). I'm not going to insult Jaedong or his fans, but by that time he had no major achievement in any of the leagues. Stork was not Bisu's only rival - fantasy was doing great and JangBi made it to the finals of both GOM and MSL.

And yes, with the exception of fantasy, Iris (?!) and maybe Bisu, every non-zerg player is having a hard time in the StarLeagues or even in PL. Who is contesting Jaedong's domination this season ? Calm, type-b, or maybe Kwanro? Damn, you EffOrt.

Still, while another 80% win rate monster is lurking around, how could you consider JD the undisputed best player in the world? As I said Jaedong wont have a better chance to win everything. All he has to do now is to beat fantasy and he will zvz his way to all golds

His huge lead in the KeSPa rank is only a matter of calculation formula, he never got away from Bisu in the ELO ranking, and his winning percentage is not by 700 points gap better than KTY's (in fact ever since JD won Batoo he is 70% percent win, where Bisu is 73%... this is ofc irrelevant since Jaedong played almost 20 games more)
Administrator"I'm a big deal." - ixmike88
ilistis
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States828 Posts
August 01 2009 19:26 GMT
#107
Jaedong, what a beast. I hope he wins both Msl and Osl.
"The man who removes a mountain begins by carrying away small stones."-William Faulkner *_*_*_Kolll FAN_*_*_*
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
August 01 2009 19:31 GMT
#108
On August 02 2009 04:20 disciple wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 02 2009 03:42 DarkOptik wrote:
On August 02 2009 01:32 disciple wrote:
On August 02 2009 00:25 Shikyo wrote:
On August 02 2009 00:15 disciple wrote:
Well Jd has all factors on his side, starting with the maps, and the fact that he most likely will have to zvz his way to the titles. Its true that there can only be one alpha zerg at the time. During TaekBang, Bisu and Stork had to face each other in the OSL, which denied Bisu from winning everything in one season. Back then Jaedong was having a hard time, but now the momentum is totally shifted.

As a loyal fanboy I will find positives in Bisu's current performance ,although he is eclipsed by Jaedong. KTY is holding his own, if he wins the MSL given the metagame today it will be a savior-style triumph. To stop the Jaedong madness, all KeSPa has to do is to launch 2 very TvZ friendly maps, but I think this time they want JD to become the icon the e-sport is missing for so long.


Well.. Heartbreak Ridge is TvZ favored. Byzantium 3 is TvZ favored. Destination is TvZ favored. Shades of Twilight is TvZ favored... I doubt that really is the problem. And it wouldn't make sense to make a completely impossible TvZ map (No gas natural, very difficult to defend third base that has the second gas), that wouldn't really be fair since even if JD won less, no other Zergs could do anything.

What I was trying to say is that if Jaedong is to win everything this season it will be a result of long chain of events. Of course the main reason will be his incredible performance this season (approx 80% win rate in all 3 MU), but some other stuff to mention is that protoss suck badly, not even that, but JangBi was retarded enough to speed up the downfall process by trying to gang on Bisu. Flash sucks heavily in TvZ, and his only real rivals this season (no, EffOrt isnt one) are Bisu and fantasy, who killed each other in the MSL.

Given the fact that Jaedong is not a sole dominating force in the scene (hello KTY) you have to admit it wont get any easier for JD to achieve all his hall of fame goals such as bonjwa status, golden mouse etc. If you want to win it all you have to play a lot of games ,right... Bisu was in the same situation a while back, but he was just out of his slump and no one considered his rising a bonjwa run till the point where he won 2 SLs back to back. Bisu had to face Stork in the OSL as well, and the gap between these two is considerably smaller in comparison with Jaedong and the next top zerg, which I dont even know who he is.

Personally I dont want it to happen for subjective reasons but I'm sure Jaedong will win all titles this season, he has everything on his side.


I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about; are you saying that the one of the reasons that Jaedong is winning everything this season is because everyone else...sucks? Your "Flash sucks heavily in TvZ" seems to be implying as such. As for "only real rivals": Bisu and Fantasy? Well, so? When you are at the very peak of the game, how many real rivals do you expect to have? Bisu's only real rival was Stork back when he was at his peak; one can argue perhaps Flash as well.

I'm also not particularly sure why you are bringing up Bisu's previous foray into "bonjwa-ness"; what merits does that comparison have?


Because Bisu got the necessary factors 2 season ago, to win everything all together, but he failed because he was not only one who was doing well in the current situations (6 dragons, Stork in particular). I'm not going to insult Jaedong or his fans, but by that time he had no major achievement in any of the leagues. Stork was not Bisu's only rival - fantasy was doing great and JangBi made it to the finals of both GOM and MSL.

And yes, with the exception of fantasy, Iris (?!) and maybe Bisu, every non-zerg player is having a hard time in the StarLeagues or even in PL. Who is contesting Jaedong's domination this season ? Calm, type-b, or maybe Kwanro? Damn, you EffOrt.

Still, while another 80% win rate monster is lurking around, how could you consider JD the undisputed best player in the world? As I said Jaedong wont have a better chance to win everything. All he has to do now is to beat fantasy and he will zvz his way to all golds

His huge lead in the KeSPa rank is only a matter of calculation formula, he never got away from Bisu in the ELO ranking, and his winning percentage is not by 700 points gap better than KTY's (in fact ever since JD won Batoo he is 70% percent win, where Bisu is 73%... this is ofc irrelevant since Jaedong played almost 20 games more)

Maybe Bisu should play well, then? Maybe he should win important games? Maybe he should win an OSL? =OOOOOO
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
disciple
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
9071 Posts
August 01 2009 19:33 GMT
#109
lets be realistic, Bisu will never win the OSL *highfive !
Administrator"I'm a big deal." - ixmike88
darktreb
Profile Joined May 2007
United States3019 Posts
August 01 2009 19:37 GMT
#110
On August 02 2009 04:13 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 02 2009 04:09 darktreb wrote:
Certainly, if he wins both leagues, he is indisputably the greatest Zerg of all time.

Was that ever in dispute? Jaedong firmly has the hold on greatest absolute play skill. The question was never "is Jaedong good enough?", but "is Jaedong dominant enough?".


He obviously has the most play skill, but then again Flash and Fantasy both obviously have more play skill than any of the Terran bonjwas ever had. "Greatest Zerg" is at least sort of in dispute as long as he doesn't have the most Starleague wins of any Zerg. If JD wins even one, he's probably there, but if he wins both he's clearly above Savior (3 MSL 1 OSL) and July (3 OSL), no matter how you want to measure the leagues (shot at the people who love super hyper devaluing MSL to look cool).
natturner
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
342 Posts
August 01 2009 19:40 GMT
#111
does anyone know how the kespa ranking system actually works?
This nigga done stole my bike.
darktreb
Profile Joined May 2007
United States3019 Posts
August 01 2009 19:40 GMT
#112
On August 02 2009 04:31 Shikyo wrote:
Maybe Bisu should play well, then? Maybe he should win important games? Maybe he should win an OSL? =OOOOOO


Hahaha it brings me such joy that it's so easy to burn Bisu, even if he is the greatest Protoss player ever.

As usual, as long as there is (any reasonable) debate about bonjwa, he isn't one. But, if JD takes down Fantasy and Bisu (especially with dominating performances), it's going to be really hard not to use the word. This is coming from a huge Savior fan who cares a lot about protecting the "sanctity" of the overused bonjwa phrase.
ahole-surprise
Profile Joined August 2007
United States813 Posts
August 01 2009 19:46 GMT
#113
Yes, because Jaedong is the greatest ZvZ player ever and he is just so much above everyone else in a matchup that is often considered a coinflip, it diminishes his greatness. Perhaps if he was less dominant in ZvZ he would be considered a more dominant player. Yeah, that makes sense.
Seriously, it's no secret you're the biggest anti-Jaedong troller in this forum, I laugh everytime I see you post about him.
And Bisu had a really easy road to in his last MSL win, are you serious, FBH and Hwasin, then Free and Jangbi (classic choker, exhibit A: owned by LUXURY in the following MSL final), just when Bisu was becoming really dominant in PvP? I guess it diminishes his wins since he was so much better at PvP than them according to your line of argument. And Bisu won a shitty tournament (GOM), barely squeaking by Flash 2-1 on Protoss favored maps and he didn't have to do it. Oh yeah, and here's the kicker. He didn't have to play those two tournaments in the same time frame.

If Jaedong wins both SL, he's about as close as you can get to a Bonjwa in the current age, and much closer than Bisu ever was.
Pulp can move, baby!
ahole-surprise
Profile Joined August 2007
United States813 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-01 20:06:18
August 01 2009 19:56 GMT
#114
@disicple: Oh, and another thing, Bisu didn't have to play Stork or Fantasy, his "rivals" that you cite as evidence of his dominance, in Clubday or Gom2 (Stork got BackHo'd). And I already mentioned why Jangbi was a creampuff opponent.
I also like how you say
All he (Jaedong) has to do now is to beat fantasy
as if it's some meaningless feat yet you use Fantasy's presence in favor of Bisu's past dominance even though they never played in the aforementioned starleagues.
Your argument is dripping with bias and an objective.
Pulp can move, baby!
Husky
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3362 Posts
August 01 2009 19:58 GMT
#115
Just noticed only 6 protoss

sad, sad day
Commentaries: youtube.com/HuskyStarcraft
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
August 01 2009 20:12 GMT
#116
That people are using Jaedong's ZvZ as an argument against him is ridiculous.
Remember Violet.
Bifur
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Russian Federation1208 Posts
August 01 2009 20:41 GMT
#117
You can compare (Z)Jaedong to (T)BoxeR:

(T)BoxeR's career on TV so far: 253-207
(Z)Jaedong's career on TV so far: 256-116
Ozarugold
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
2716 Posts
August 01 2009 20:47 GMT
#118
Hmm...not a single Protoss (in the top 30) has an arrow pointing upwards...
this is my quote.
ShaperofDreams
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada2492 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-01 21:01:36
August 01 2009 20:55 GMT
#119
I think Jaedong is more dominant then any SC Bonjwa ever was. The only reason he is not considered Bonjwa is because a lot of people are still super attached to older Bonjwas and defensive about it.

There I said the "B" word three times.

edit: I hope the stress doesn't break him!

2 starleagues and proleague holy cow.
Bitches don't know about my overlord. FUCK OFF ALDARIS I HAVE ENOUGH PYLONS. My Balls are as smooth as Eggs.
MannerMan
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
371 Posts
August 01 2009 21:03 GMT
#120
yeah, type-b fighting!
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