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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
After my first failed attempt, I spent some time making another, looking through a few other maps that were deemed decent. Here's the result:
Latest:
Changelog
- Added 5x stacked temples at the long-ends of the middle high ground ramps.
- Added 15x 0 minerals near the corners to block vision (yet to test if this works)
PvP replay: http://www.repdepot.net/replay.php?id=13438
TvP replay: http://www.repdepot.net/replay.php?id=13439
+ Show Spoiler [Fourth draft] +Changelog- Assimilators at nat ramp removed - Replaced assimilators at 12 and 6 expos with neutral geysers than can be built on - Widened the choke where there are 3 mineral patches. Units can now flow through, but need to mine for more units to get out quickly - Heavily redesigned 1/2/4/7/8/10 expos - Redesigned the corner of the middle higher ground platform - A small mid-wide ramp size fix
+ Show Spoiler [Third Draft] +Changelog- Removed ramp with stacked minerals - Moved assimilators from 11/5 to 12/6 expos - Shifted the mineral line at 12 and 6 expos - Removed gas at 12 and 6 - Shifted mineral line at high ground nat - Changed 2/8 expo design a bit - Added gas at 2/8 expo Just thinking: Should I change the assimilators at 12 and 6 to geysers instead?
+ Show Spoiler [2nd draft] +Changelog- Added assimilators to ramp near Xel'Naga temple, where both can be destroyed AND one can be rebuilt. (Small to medium units will be able to pass through when there is 1 assimilator built, only marine/medic for refinery and none for extractors) - Replaced neutral assimilators with neutral geysers at 11 and 5 where you can build on them later. - Removed gas at 2 and 8 expos - Added gas at 12 and 6 expos - Readjusted the mineral line at 4/10 expo (mineral mining problem) - Readjusted the 3 mineral patches to 24 minerals - Slightly adjusted the nat size Edit: I'm thinking about removing the ramp with stacked minerals, removing the neutral geyser blocks and add assimilators near the 12/6 expos instead. How does that sound?
+ Show Spoiler [First draft] +Map info: Resources(All minerals and gases are 1500 and 5000 respectively unless stated) Mains: 10M + 1G Nat: 7M + 1G 4/10 Expos: (5+3)M + 2G, Minerals are 1000 each and gases are 2500 each 2/8 Expos: 7M + 1G 1/9 Corner Expos: 5M + 1G 12/6 Expos: 5M Features- You can wall off your main with 1 supply 1 rax - Neutral Assimilators at 5 and 11 that can be destroyed to make a wall (haven't tested if it can be rebuilt) - The mineral stacks near the assimilators are 0 minerals stacked 15 times. - The 3 mineral patches near the nat are worth 18 minerals each. - Xel'Naga temples are not stacked. - Minerals are 1 and 9 corner on the ramps are worth 40 minerals. - You can build your town hall between the geysers at 4 and 10 to get 2 gas fast, but it will mine minerals slower and block army pathing, which forces you to mine out the 3 mineral patches, destroy the Xel'Naga temples and/or mine out the 15x0 stacked minerals. - Player who holds the center area has the map advantage
Comments? Suggestions? All welcome~
Map download: http://www.mediafire.com/?alyn4uf0mkm
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Netherlands6142 Posts
What's the fastest route for scouting?
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Haha that looks pretty awesome at first glance man. Mad props for all the diffrent work you do for this community.
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this actually looks pretty interesting
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
On May 25 2009 22:39 Pholon wrote:
What's the fastest route for scouting?
Fastest route is to go through assimilators and turn at the 1/7 corners of the maps and get there (early game). Later on, it'll be through the path created by destroying Xel'Naga temples, mining out the 3 mineral patches and through the middle.
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isnt this really imbalanced ZvP considering that there's no ramp and there's two entrances to the base
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
Destroy assimilators + use cannons to prevent mining out the stacked minerals = only 1 entrance.
On May 25 2009 22:39 Evilmonkey. wrote:
Haha that looks pretty awesome at first glance man. Mad props for all the diffrent work you do for this community.
Lol I don't really think of this as a 'contribution' to the community, more like the community helping me out. This was really out of my own interest 
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This map is Z>>>>>P (Seriously you cant defend your 3rd base, heck even you cant get your nat, 4 possible routes to main and nat and really easy to flank)
And i think its P>T but i'm not sure
for tvz, i have no clue 
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On May 25 2009 22:44 konadora wrote:Destroy assimilators + use cannons to prevent mining out the stacked minerals = only 1 entrance. Show nested quote +On May 25 2009 22:39 Evilmonkey. wrote:
Haha that looks pretty awesome at first glance man. Mad props for all the diffrent work you do for this community. Lol I don't really think of this as a 'contribution' to the community, more like the community helping me out. This was really out of my own interest
Dude there's a 2nd ramp to nat and 1 temple is not hard to destroy with 8-10 lings
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
Mm I'll think of something.. also found a bug
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On May 25 2009 22:48 Hyperionnn wrote:This map is Z>>>>>P (Seriously you cant defend your 3rd base, heck even you cant get your nat, 4 possible routes to main and nat and really easy to flank) And i think its P>T but i'm not sure for tvz, i have no clue
TvZ sparks cleans up due to 2 entrances and no where to put sunks, this map is only playable mirrors + TvP.
Edit: It looks nice and its probably fun to play, but good thumbs up rule for maps, the weirder and cooler they look the more imbalanced they probably are. Defending vs muta is going to be really awkward on this map too.
Also if those temples arent stacked, defending vs 3hat hydra from 3 fronts is basically impossible unless you go 1gate tech into fast HTs which is still difficult since its a reversed ramp. 2 openings + nowhere to put static defense + 1 potential opening makes it very difficult to defend vs certain all ins like 2/3hat hydra or 3hatling with mining patch vP and spark sunk breaks TvZ.
Edit2: If you really want to make this map interesting, delete the ramp min pathway to the nat and build dead geyesers which can be buildable while having 0 gas, that should be entertaining.
Edit3: You might also want to fix positioning at nat minerals to allow P to snipe tanks or vults if they are hitting from the back of the ledge so goons can go behind the min line If you know what i mean, any P/Z will know what im talking about in Andromeda min only, it allows for more interesting rushes but balances the map out. Making more space behind min line also makes 2hat muta with mutas vT out less effective and not an autowin if JD is playing.
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Looks really cool, might be a bit imba for Z to get 4 gas so easy, but seeing as its only 2500 in thoses geysers, maybe not. I like the long ramp splitting the map, kind of a blue-storm feel to it.
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On May 25 2009 22:54 samachking wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2009 22:48 Hyperionnn wrote:This map is Z>>>>>P (Seriously you cant defend your 3rd base, heck even you cant get your nat, 4 possible routes to main and nat and really easy to flank) And i think its P>T but i'm not sure for tvz, i have no clue TvZ sparks cleans up due to 2 entrances and no where to put sunks, this map is only playable mirrors + TvP.
Yeah you are right about that
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On May 25 2009 22:54 samachking wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2009 22:48 Hyperionnn wrote:This map is Z>>>>>P (Seriously you cant defend your 3rd base, heck even you cant get your nat, 4 possible routes to main and nat and really easy to flank) And i think its P>T but i'm not sure for tvz, i have no clue TvZ sparks cleans up due to 2 entrances and no where to put sunks, this map is only playable mirrors + TvP. Edit: It looks nice and its probably fun to play, but good thumbs up rule for maps, the weirder and cooler they look the more imbalanced they probably are. Defending vs muta is going to be really awkward on this map too.
It'll just happen like it does on the old version of Lost Temple, don't 12 hatch at your natural so you can sunken up. Though it will make 2 base play significantly harder, so not many people will be pulling Jaedongs.
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On May 25 2009 22:57 Archaic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2009 22:54 samachking wrote:On May 25 2009 22:48 Hyperionnn wrote:This map is Z>>>>>P (Seriously you cant defend your 3rd base, heck even you cant get your nat, 4 possible routes to main and nat and really easy to flank) And i think its P>T but i'm not sure for tvz, i have no clue TvZ sparks cleans up due to 2 entrances and no where to put sunks, this map is only playable mirrors + TvP. Edit: It looks nice and its probably fun to play, but good thumbs up rule for maps, the weirder and cooler they look the more imbalanced they probably are. Defending vs muta is going to be really awkward on this map too. It'll just happen like it does on the old version of Lost Temple, don't 12 hatch at your natural so you can sunken up. Though it will make 2 base play significantly harder, so not many people will be pulling Jaedongs.
If you dont hatch at your nat you are still in deep shit as the sunks will be fighting up ramp if the T goes for a 2 base sunk bust which means youll even have to build more sunks. The sunk placement looks really awkward, but this map is really strong for 2hat muta vs standard play due to min placement, mech is going to be really troublesome too with vults having 2 pathways early game making it really hard to defend unless you put the hatch in the position you mentioned which puts Z way behind as he needs to build more sunks later on to defend mech at nat.
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
Okay did some adjustments, going through mechanics testing, will update OP if all bugs are fixed
Thanks for all the response so far guys!
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On May 25 2009 23:13 konadora wrote:Okay did some adjustments, going through mechanics testing, will update OP if all bugs are fixed Thanks for all the response so far guys!
Np, I added a few suggestions, I would love to play on this map, I love to all in with all 3 races so it seems to be pretty interesting. Try to figure a way to allow for static defense without ruining your whole idea of the map.
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It looks too complicated. There's the assimilators, the Xel'Naga temples, the 0 minerals on the ramp, and the line of minerals beside the nat ramp... It feels as if you've tried to cluster every cool map feature into one area, and the result feels a little messy. The nat also looks very small and hard to work with. Is it possible to sneak into the main without being seen by the opponent? Proxy gate potential perhaps?
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erm, no easily ascessible gas nat for zerg is not fun
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This map is definatly P > T no doubt...
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
On May 25 2009 23:28 The Raurosaur wrote:
It looks too complicated. There's the assimilators, the Xel'Naga temples, the 0 minerals on the ramp, and the line of minerals beside the nat ramp... It feels as if you've tried to cluster every cool map feature into one area, and the result feels a little messy. The nat also looks very small and hard to work with. Is it possible to sneak into the main without being seen by the opponent? Proxy gate potential perhaps?
With fast mineral hopping it's possible to proxy gate in the main, but I don't know about the timing. You can proxy at the nat or below the nat.
Just finished mechanics checking, will be updating OP in a minute.
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
Okay updated op
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On May 25 2009 23:28 The Raurosaur wrote:
It looks too complicated. There's the assimilators, the Xel'Naga temples, the 0 minerals on the ramp, and the line of minerals beside the nat ramp... It feels as if you've tried to cluster every cool map feature into one area, and the result feels a little messy.
I sort of agree with this. Map features such as these are great to promote creative play, invention of new strats and in a way the evolution of SC, but they shouldn't be overdone. Having all of these things seem a bit excessive.
Map looks cool though! Keep working on it and try to balance it as much as possible.
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
Didn't see samachking's suggestions, so I redid a bit based on his suggestions. Updated once again
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I dont know about the assimilators on the ramp, did you try running goons or goliaths down there? I assume its going to be quite painful,otherwise looks better, But you still dont want 2 openings in your base which deny normal 12 hatch expand ZvT and FE PvZ, 2 staples of modern play, you really cant, I liked the 2 dead geysers that are build able in the previous version more. If you want to work on it, work in it for a while before updating and you can get yourself a decent map, gj on the work so far, I am a fan of 2 player maps.
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Calgary25989 Posts
I enjoy abstract maps like this, but I think you need some form of a natural in order to give people a chance to play your map. As of now it seems T and Z are going to be under constant assault because there's so many entrances to the natural. Then there appears to be 3 bases side-by-side at 10 and 4, which I can't see being balanced.
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I really can't see any way this map would be P>T. It's so easy for terrans to creep along the sides and eat up bases, and it looks really difficult for P to attack any terran base. I think this map screams T>P.
On a side note, have you ever considered how the pathings are on this map? I can sense a whole lot of trouble due to clutter (namely, the nat and the 4/10 o clock expansions)
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For zvt people keep saying there is problems with the multiple entrances to the base. I think that if you deny the terran scouting by blocking the assims at your min only (the fastest way to scout before temples/minerals cleared), forcing him to go around, to the other wall. You could then send your first lings to kill the min only assims (and send 1 to block your natural assims). Once the min only assims are destroyed i don't see too much of a problem vs an early rush from terran, you can wall your assim and the temples take time to destroy.
I could see a 3 hat doing fine vs a terran if you put your 3rd hat above the xelnaga temples rather than at the min only.
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lol what maps did you look at ._.
I think that if you removed all the neutrals, the map wouldn't work. So I think you need a more solid/standard foundation to your map. But, this is definitely better than your last map; improvement is sometimes rare in mappers these days tt.
You're welcome to upload the map to broodwarmaps.net at any time oO It's made for uploading maps lol.
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There are seven bases and six gasses per player...which is insane.
Most four player maps have only 3.5 to 4 bases per starting location, and only three gasses per starting location. Two player maps generally have 4 or 5 with four gasses per player.
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So many gases, so close to together. This map kinda look like paranoid andriode.
Another thing is that you can cliff 2 bases from 1 spot. This map looks like a zerg map seeing as there are soooooo many gases so easily accessed.
I have one question too, how do you make the ramps so big (would go for bridges as well)
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On May 26 2009 00:37 Chill wrote:
I enjoy abstract maps like this, but I think you need some form of a natural in order to give people a chance to play your map. As of now it seems T and Z are going to be under constant assault because there's so many entrances to the natural. Then there appears to be 3 bases side-by-side at 10 and 4, which I can't see being balanced.
nobody ever plays on maps thats not in iccup map pool anyways
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
Updated! Please please take a look and leave your thoughts/comments on how I can improve! Thanks!
On May 26 2009 07:21 Dgtl wrote:
I have one question too, how do you make the ramps so big (would go for bridges as well)
Use the ramps and tilesets they provide at broodwarmaps.net
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its a nice map ..
but i don like the gas -,-l
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
On May 26 2009 17:39 kNife wrote:
its a nice map ..
but i don like the gas -,-l
Where?
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Looks great, as long as the two buildable guysers are 0 gas. Once you take your nat, you're pretty much guaranteed your third as well, which sounds imba but I don't think it will be. Only one entrance unless someone sneakily makes an assim/refinery/extractor, which could lead to creative plays imo.
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
Yup, 0 gas. You can build on them and mine gas from both, so you can get +4 gas income
You can build an assimilator/refinery to sneak in a proxy, don't have to complete them. Just build, go through, cancel, and start building your proxy. Tested it
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51505 Posts
have you play tested the map with anyone? if not i will.
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
On May 26 2009 18:53 GTR wrote:
have you play tested the map with anyone? if not i will.
nobody =(
iccup gogo
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It's gonna suck ass for ZvP...toss can rebuild the assims and go in and snipe the second natural with a string of speedlots super-quick...:\
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This map looks pretty fuckin awesome yo.
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
On May 26 2009 19:03 PH wrote:
It's gonna suck ass for ZvP...toss can rebuild the assims and go in and snipe the second natural with a string of speedlots super-quick...:\
The one at the corners or wad?
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Umm, it looks like there are two naturals that one can take...the one on high ground that is ramped, and the mineral only that has the two geysers. If Z double expos, toss can do a quick timing attack with lots and a probe, building assims, then just rushing in and sniping the hatchery.
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The temples could be a problem for pvz, cause it can be taken down before the p player actually macro up, and whats with the gases near the min only expansions. Pointless to put them there if you're not going to assimlators on it.
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is awesome32277 Posts
I really like the design!
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
On May 27 2009 05:04 PH wrote:
Umm, it looks like there are two naturals that one can take...the one on high ground that is ramped, and the mineral only that has the two geysers. If Z double expos, toss can do a quick timing attack with lots and a probe, building assims, then just rushing in and sniping the hatchery.
You can build a building between the geysers to block the Protoss, even if they build an assimilator. So you can make an evo chamber there and put one or two sunkens behind it.
On May 27 2009 07:08 MuffinDude wrote:
The temples could be a problem for pvz, cause it can be taken down before the p player actually macro up, and whats with the gases near the min only expansions. Pointless to put them there if you're not going to assimlators on it.
I purposely changed them to geysers instead of assimilators rofl...
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On May 27 2009 07:17 konadora wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2009 05:04 PH wrote:
Umm, it looks like there are two naturals that one can take...the one on high ground that is ramped, and the mineral only that has the two geysers. If Z double expos, toss can do a quick timing attack with lots and a probe, building assims, then just rushing in and sniping the hatchery. You can build a building between the geysers to block the Protoss, even if they build an assimilator. So you can make an evo chamber there and put one or two sunkens behind it.
Hmm...an evo chamber, maybe. I guess you were going for that kind of a map feature?
I guess it just makes me uncomfortable as a zerg player. Thing is, though, with the way it's set up, fast three hatch zerg will be popular. I just think it sucks that toss can time an attack for just when the 2nd hatch would finish, either forcing a cancel if zerg placed the higher ground hatch first, or killing it off. Iirc, assims don't need to be complete in order to let units through, so then toss can just cancel and only lose 50mins instead of 200.
My two cents.
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
Okay just test-played with GTR, man the assimilators are such a bitch. But they're fun to use.
PvP was pretty fun, TvT was lol. Also played TvZ (i was Z), where GTR used scv to build 1 refinery and did a backdoor marine/medic/firebat rush. Pretty sweet. Didn't save the replay though =/
There was also a ZvZ, forgot to save that as well.
Added the replay into OP, download the latest version from the link (below the picture on the right, which reads (2) Drift ).
Also did a slight change, will be updating the pic.
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someone's been studying battle royale
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looks like Hwangdro + Blue Storm to me....
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
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YOU CAN SIEGE THAT NATURAL IMBA IMBA IMBA
...
Er,
I mean looks like a pretty sweet map...I like the pandabearguy placement :D!
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
On May 28 2009 14:01 Comeh wrote:
YOU CAN SIEGE THAT NATURAL IMBA IMBA IMBA
...
Er,
I mean looks like a pretty sweet map...I like the pandabearguy placement :D!
Have yet to check whether that will be a great factor in TvT :3
I like pandabearguy, had to put him somewhere lol
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/1912/2driftn.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/1609/2drift.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/4638/2driftm.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/1609/2drift.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/1609/2drift.jpg)
