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On January 09 2009 11:58 Jyvblamo wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=61602This thread should give you some idea... Basically, Bonjwa has to win a bunch of leagues within a short period of time (Happens to be 3 MSLs then OSL in the case of Nada, Oov, and Savior) and 'dominate' everyone for an extended duration.
you dont have to follow any specific patterns
its the fans decision, but there are very very few bonjwa, and you have to be very dominant. Case in point: reach, july, nal_ra, xellos, garimto, flash, bisu, jaedong are all not bonjwa
bonjwa is a very special term when someone is so dominant they are not just untouchable, but other players panic just being in the same booth
Boxer, Iloveoov, NaDa, and Savior are three that I consider a bonjwa.
these are the 4 bonjwa as dictated by the community. They are the only 4.
As for bisu, even if he won a starleague I dont think he should seriously be considered for bonjwa. Its not just titles, there has to be a quite substantial period where he is so dominant its almost undescribable. In order for bisu to become bonjwa he would have to make all his games seem unfair and make it look like no one, even his closest rival, has any chance in hell.
if you look under savior's reign vs his closest rivals and the expectations of both the players and the fans:
savior vs oov: not even close
savior vs midas: not even close
savior vs hwasin: not even close
savior vs nal_ra: not even close
all of those players could be considered rivals, and all of them even occasionally won. But none of those matchups would be as close in terms of expectations, as say bisu vs stork, bisu vs jaedong, bisu vs flash
that is why bisu is not bonjwa. He came close, but he would really have to take off to have that chance again
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Remember that the bonjwa concept is not a strict rule, but just a fan work. Savior was the first progamer called bonjwa. Fans later built the general concept and conditions of bonjwa, "who was so dominant like savior in the past?"
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
To quote MSL commentator and OSL commentator
There is no fun watching 1 player dominate, then see that 1 player fall off the face of the earth. Where is the fun of watching 1 player take it all? No, times have changed and this is the era of 2 strong rivalries instead of 1 dominant man. And honestly, how can seeing 1 guy win everything be fun when we have groups like LeeSsang and Taekbang? Flash, Jaedong, Stork and Bisu are the 4 biggest things in progaming right now, and I honestly wish we kept it this way.
And I agree with that  , LeeSsang and Taekbang is more fun than 'omg bonjwaaaa'
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Do we get to call Bisu Bonjwa if sweeps this GOM, MSL and OSL?
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
On January 09 2009 14:40 chameleonia wrote:
Do we get to call Bisu Bonjwa if sweeps this GOM, MSL and OSL?
if he didn't pit JD and Flash together in a death group and stuck himself with 3 zergs, I would've agreed to this.
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On January 09 2009 14:13 Hancell wrote:
Remember that the bonjwa concept is not a strict rule, but just a fan work. Savior was the first progamer called bonjwa. Fans later built the general concept and conditions of bonjwa, "who was so dominant like savior in the past?"
I concur. Boxer was the first bonjwa, but sAviOr is the original bonjwa
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On January 09 2009 14:40 chameleonia wrote:
Do we get to call Bisu Bonjwa if sweeps this GOM, MSL and OSL?
if he looks untouchable while doing that and untouchable in PL as well I think he should be considered. Ultimately its generally the korean community who determines bonjwa though
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It's not about how many leagues you won in the past, like a hall of fame thing. It's about how good you are right now, like the rest are measured by the score they lose with. We just don't see it anymore.
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Bisu has a 82.5% win percentage for his last 40 games...
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Imagine stork would be considered bonjwa if he won those finals. But he was so close yet so far.
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United States17042 Posts
bisu's got a shot, but everyone is asking, "where is the OSL?" maybe this season
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Bisu said this after winning his 3rd MSL title
" i dont really care if i dont become bonjwa, i just want to be remembered as just a player that played SC really well "
This is why i <3 Bisu and personally it would be nice to see 1st Protoss to become bonjwa but i think Bisu has done enough already for any Protoss.
win or lose just play hard Bisu
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while bisu has been winning nearly all his games recently, he still isn't on the level of savior or oov when they really dominated. When savior and oov played it was epic rape, no chance, why even try. With bisu, the games are a lot closer, like effort vs bisu: while bisu still came out on top, effort was a hell of a close second. Hes just not there yet, but I wouldn't count him out yet, its very possible all of us may be chanting bisu the bonjwa in 7-8 months
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On January 09 2009 15:07 chameleonia wrote:
Bisu has a 82.5% win percentage for his last 40 games...
This.
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9070 Posts
I dont think bisu will be hailed as bonjwa just because of all the jd/flash stuff. But imo he already deserves this status, you cant just put him among the other currently top players because he is actually a hattrick hero, just like the bonjwas you mentioned above. Elo-wise he has been more dominant than JD. I cant make such a comparison with savior because imo the elo ranking suffered badly from inflation in the last 2 years. KTY's stats are misleading - his pvp should be far above 61%. before the semi against stork he was 15-15 but ever since he has like 71-75% winning percentage. Anyway imo its extremely difficult to achieve the bonjwa status today, because the competition is so brutal... but hell yeah BISU IS BONJWA
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On January 09 2009 13:05 Plexa wrote:
If Bisu takes this OSL imo he'll be bonjwa status
All the other bonjwas only really started dominating in their third MSL through to the end of the next OSL (by that i mean being noticed by everyone). It's like, MSL1 "Oh shit its this cool newcomer guy" MSL2 its like "Oh cool this guy is pretty good yea?" and by MSL3 "holy shit this guy has force" and just rapes every living thing. Bisu is in bonjwa mode atm and he will win this OSL
Keeping my fingers crossed, tightly.
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On January 09 2009 15:07 chameleonia wrote:
Bisu has a 82.5% win percentage for his last 40 games...
Oh My God....
That is unfair.
Now I'm going to go watch flash vs bisu on gomtv.
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To be a bonjwa, you have to totally dominate your opponents for about a year or so. Boxer, Nada, Oov, and Savior did just that and they were pretty unstoppable for roughly a year during their prime. Recently, players such as Flash and Jaedong were able to dominate for only a few months so they aren't really bonjwas while Bisu dominated for about six months or so (closest to bonjwa level, but only halfway there). You can only consider players like Flash, Jaedong and Bisu to be very very good players, but not bonjwas because they aren't completely dominating over other players because of the fierce competition. Sadly, I don't think there will be a bonjwa ever again.
edit: But I have to admit, Bisu does come the closest at the moment.
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9070 Posts
and btw saviors msl titles were not back-to-back  bisu's screw up against mind is not that important because he managed to bounce back
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Yeah but who else have 5 straight MSL finals on their belt ?
And won 3 of them ?
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EPT
