The Top half of the Ro8 Bracket has concluded, proving once again that the difference between the Top 8 players is but a hair's breadth and everything that matters is how you play in those very crucial moments in matches that matter and thats not going to change with the other 2 matches in the Ro8 either. Snow and Bisu are both PvP experts of the highest order and its going to be a proper showdown. Mini and Soulkey is a finals level match come way too early and you do not want to miss it.
The quarterfinal clash in Afreeca Starleague Season 17 (ASL17) sets the stage for an enthralling showdown between two Protoss titans: Bisu and Snow. Bisu, a legendary player renowned for his strategic brilliance and dominant performances in the Kespa era, boasts an impressive record of 110-62 (63.95%) in Protoss vs Protoss (PvP) matchups. Transitioning seamlessly into the ASL era, Bisu's PvP win rate has soared to over 80%, solidifying his status as one of the greatest Protoss players of all time. Opposing him is Snow, celebrated as the best shuttle reaver player in the ASL era, famed for his aggressive playstyle and adept utilization of shuttle harass tactics. As the two competitors prepare to face off on the ASL17 stage, anticipation reaches fever pitch for a clash of strategic genius and tactical mastery.
Map Predictions:
Neo Dark Origin (Snow's Pick): As Snow's chosen battleground, Neo Dark Origin sets the scene for a fast-paced and aggressive opener. Known for his relentless early-game pressure and adept shuttle reaver micro, Snow aims to gain an early advantage and dictate the tempo of the match. However, Bisu's exceptional win rate in PvP matchups, combined with his adaptability and strategic acumen, allows him to weather Snow's initial onslaught. Expect Bisu to defend tenaciously, gradually seizing control of the map with superior macro management and precise engagements, ultimately securing a hard-fought victory.
Apocalypse (Bisu's Pick): Bisu's strategic brilliance shines on Apocalypse, a map known for its expansive layout and strategic depth. Armed with a deep understanding of PvP dynamics and impeccable execution, Bisu capitalizes on strategic positioning and map control to outmaneuver Snow. His calculated approach and precise engagements give him a decisive advantage, enabling him to secure a commanding victory and assert his dominance over his opponent.
Citadel (Snow's Pick): In the heart of Snow's territory, Citadel plays to his strengths as the best shuttle reaver player in the ASL era. Snow adopts an aggressive stance, leveraging shuttle reaver harass tactics to pressure Bisu from multiple angles and disrupt his economy. While Bisu showcases resilience and adaptability in the face of Snow's relentless aggression, Snow's superior shuttle control and harass micro prove decisive, securing him a hard-earned victory and leveling the series.
Troy SE (Bisu's Pick): As the battleground shifts to Troy SE, Bisu leverages his strategic prowess and tactical brilliance to gain an early advantage. With a keen eye for map control and positional play, Bisu maneuvers his forces adeptly, denying Snow's attempts at aggression and capitalizing on strategic openings. Despite Snow's valiant efforts to mount a comeback, Bisu's calculated engagements and superior decision-making lead to a convincing victory, putting him one step closer to securing a spot in the semifinals.
Radeon (Decider Map): In the pivotal decider map on Radeon, both players enter the arena with determination and resolve. With the series tied, every decision becomes crucial as Bisu and Snow vie for supremacy. However, Bisu's wealth of experience and strategic insight prove pivotal as he navigates the treacherous terrain with confidence and poise. With meticulous planning and flawless execution, Bisu outmaneuvers Snow in a gripping finale, securing victory and advancing to the semifinals of ASL17.
Conclusion: In a matchup defined by strategic brilliance and tactical mastery, Bisu emerges triumphant over Snow, securing his place in the semifinals of ASL17. Despite Snow's formidable shuttle reaver harass tactics and aggressive playstyle, Bisu's unparalleled win rates in PvP matchups and strategic adaptability prove insurmountable. As the dust settles on a fiercely contested battle, Bisu stands tall as the victor, poised to continue his quest for glory in the prestigious ASL tournament.
In the quarterfinals of ASL17, the clash between Soulkey and Mini brings together two formidable players who have showcased exceptional skills throughout the tournament. Soulkey, representing the Zerg race, has demonstrated his dominance with impressive victories, including a 2-0 sweep in Group A against strong opponents like Bisu. Mini, on the other hand, has showcased his prowess as a Protoss player, securing victories in Group B, including a decisive 2-0 win over BarrackS in the Final Match. With both players displaying top-tier performances in the group stage, their encounter in the quarterfinals promises to be an intense battle of wits and skill.
Map 1: Neo Dark Origin (Mini's Pick): Mini's decision to pick Neo Dark Origin reflects his confidence in his aggressive Protoss playstyle, as evidenced by his 2-0 victory over BarrackS in the Final Match. Additionally, Mini boasts a solid win rate of over 80% in Protoss vs. Zerg matchups, indicating his strength in this particular matchup. However, Soulkey's adaptability and strategic diversity cannot be underestimated, especially considering his impressive 2-0 sweep over Bisu in the group stage. With Soulkey's win rate of 65.5% in Zerg vs. Protoss, he has the potential to weather Mini's early aggression and turn the tide in the mid to late game. Despite Mini's map pick and aggressive tactics, Soulkey may leverage his superior macro mechanics to secure victory on Neo Dark Origin.
Map 2: Apocalypse (Soulkey's Pick): Soulkey's decision to pick Apocalypse plays to his strengths, as indicated by his 2-0 sweep over strong opponents like Bisu in the group stage. With a win rate of 65.5% in Zerg vs. Protoss matchups, Soulkey has demonstrated proficiency in navigating the mid to late game stages, where he can capitalize on the map's layout to secure map control and economic advantages. Mini, facing a formidable challenge on this map, must contend with Soulkey's strategic decision-making and macro prowess. Despite Mini's aggressive tactics, Soulkey's strategic depth and macro management may enable him to outmaneuver Mini and secure victory on Apocalypse.
Map 3: Citadel (Mini's Pick): Mini's selection of Citadel reflects his preference for aggressive playstyles and narrow chokepoints, which can favor Protoss strategies. With a win rate of over 80% in Protoss vs. Zerg matchups, Mini has the potential to apply relentless pressure on Soulkey and secure map control. However, Soulkey's adaptability and defensive skills cannot be underestimated, especially considering his previous victories over strong opponents like Bisu. With a win rate of 54.5% in Zerg vs. Protoss matchups, Soulkey has the capacity to withstand Mini's aggression and turn the tide in his favor. Despite Mini's map pick and aggressive tactics, Soulkey may leverage his defensive strengths to secure victory on Citadel.
Map 4: Troy SE (Soulkey's Pick): On Troy SE, Soulkey's decision to pick the map capitalizes on his strengths and strategic preferences. With a win rate of 65.5% in Zerg vs. Protoss matchups, Soulkey has demonstrated proficiency in navigating the mid to late game stages, where he can capitalize on the map's layout and high ground advantage. Mini, facing a tough challenge on this map, must contend with Soulkey's superior Zerg mechanics and strategic decision-making. Despite Mini's attempts to apply pressure, Soulkey's superior macro management and strategic depth may enable him to secure victory on Troy SE.
Map 5: Radeon (Decider Map): As the decider map, Radeon presents a final battleground where both players must demonstrate their adaptability and strategic acumen. With closely matched win rates in their respective matchups, Soulkey and Mini are poised for an intense battle. Mini's aggressive Protoss style may give him an early advantage, but Soulkey's resilience and strategic decision-making could enable him to stage a comeback and secure victory on Radeon.
Conclusion: Considering their performances in ASL17 and their strengths in respective matchups, Soulkey is predicted to advance to the semifinals. While Mini may display formidable aggression and strategic prowess, Soulkey's superior Zerg mechanics and adaptability may ultimately lead him to victory in the quarterfinals of ASL17.
Most likely outcome is Snow 3-1 Bisu. As much as Bisu is still a great player he already passed his prime. Snow is better in almost all aspects and the only reason Bisu has a chance if because of how PvP works. On the other match SK has the upper hand but it will be a lot closer, most likely will come down to the last game and Radeon is big enough to allow for SK to abuse the zerg swarm. I agree with a 3-2 result for SK.
Did you write this with ChatGPT? The writeups for each map in Mini vs. SK are almost identical to each other, and the Snow vs. Bisu one isn't much better.
On April 08 2024 23:51 prion_ wrote: Did you write this with ChatGPT? The writeups for each map in Mini vs. SK are almost identical to each other, and the Snow vs. Bisu one isn't much better.
I was just about to say the same lol. Soulkey's ZvP win rate was cited as 65.5% in 3 places, and 54.5% in another place. A human writer wouldn't cite the same fact over and over again, nor make the obvious factual mistake.
On April 08 2024 23:51 prion_ wrote: Did you write this with ChatGPT? The writeups for each map in Mini vs. SK are almost identical to each other, and the Snow vs. Bisu one isn't much better.
Lol, yeah. To be clear, I never take any payment for my previews and have hand written every article I’m in for over a decade now. Because this is just the ro8 and a preview which really just needs to includes how they got here, who they play, and what maps, I wanted to run an experiment where I fed it all the correct data from LP and tailored it with a specific format. I honestly wanted it to work out because reading Elo-board is so tough to do since they use their real Korean names/everything is in Korean, and gathering tournament stats takes many hours. But as you can see it didn’t nail it. If I try it again, I might just use it for formatting only, but I will write all the actual content myself.
"Expect Bisu to defend tenaciously, gradually seizing control of the map with superior macro management and precise engagements" (didn't happen...) I don't understand the point of writing about a game before it happens, especially in such imaginary and fictitious detail that its very unlikely to match the actual game when played. These write-ups were so completely wrong, and so Bisu-biased. Edit: OK so it was just ChatGPT drivel, now I understand...
Its more on me for letting this slip past completely unchecked despite taking the editor credit, there are no excuses that would ever justify the complete oversight in letting this go through.
I can only do better and from here on and ensure that its all human written previews that hype up upcoming matches properly.
On April 09 2024 19:53 BLinD-RawR wrote: Its more on me for letting this slip past completely unchecked despite taking the editor credit, there are no excuses that would ever justify the complete oversight in letting this go through.
I can only do better and from here on and ensure that its all human written previews that hype up upcoming matches properly.
Dude, don't beat yourself up on this. There's nothing wrong with us blending tech for previews. There's only been like 4 writers for all BW content for years now. I think we can produce some seriously cool content using tech blended with writing skills. This preview was a great way for us to gather how many people are actually reading the content of the article versus just seeing who's play and when.
Think about it thought, we've spent weeks (months) worth of hours in total writing all the content we have for TL! It's pretty awesome we've been around to do it for so long.
On April 09 2024 19:35 qet wrote: "Expect Bisu to defend tenaciously, gradually seizing control of the map with superior macro management and precise engagements" (didn't happen...) I don't understand the point of writing about a game before it happens, especially in such imaginary and fictitious detail that its very unlikely to match the actual game when played. These write-ups were so completely wrong, and so Bisu-biased. Edit: OK so it was just ChatGPT drivel, now I understand...
I let GPT predict the outcomes based on tons of stats. For the Bisu preview I fed all his PvP results from the Kespa and Sonic era too. Then I went to the elo-board and found all the results there. I also went into the KCM thread and got all the results from that thread over the past month. I actually still did an absurd amount of data research for all these players.
What I learned is GPT has a terribly bad memory. I had to repeatedly re-enter data and correct its interpretations. It would properly spit back a page of wiki code in text format, only to give me a wrong answer 10 minutes later. I actually put in the results data for every ASL (17 seasons worth of players, maps, wins/loses, race stats, literally everything) cause I was super excited to have those stats at my disposal. We have to literally research these numbers and do the math every season for the semis/finals for each player which I take pretty seriously when I do this by hand. After spending all these hours I was left with a very defunctory stat machine that kept telling me Jaedong won the most ASLs out of any player.
On April 09 2024 19:23 BisuDagger wrote: I honestly wanted it to work out because reading Elo-board is so tough to do since they use their real Korean names/everything is in Korean, and gathering tournament stats takes many hours.
Hey. I can help with that. Will paste some stats for the semi pairs in this thread later today.
On April 09 2024 19:23 BisuDagger wrote: I honestly wanted it to work out because reading Elo-board is so tough to do since they use their real Korean names/everything is in Korean, and gathering tournament stats takes many hours.
Hey. I can help with that. Will paste some stats for the semi pairs in this thread later today.
This, more often than not I use TMNT's compiled data because its just more convenient.
On April 09 2024 19:53 BLinD-RawR wrote: Its more on me for letting this slip past completely unchecked despite taking the editor credit, there are no excuses that would ever justify the complete oversight in letting this go through.
I can only do better and from here on and ensure that its all human written previews that hype up upcoming matches properly.
Dude, don't beat yourself up on this. There's nothing wrong with us blending tech for previews. There's only been like 4 writers for all BW content for years now. I think we can produce some seriously cool content using tech blended with writing skills. This preview was a great way for us to gather how many people are actually reading the content of the article versus just seeing who's play and when.
Think about it thought, we've spent weeks (months) worth of hours in total writing all the content we have for TL! It's pretty awesome we've been around to do it for so long.
Hey least you know people actually read your previews usually so noticed!
Hope this helps. Do ask me if you need some specific stats:
Note that the map win rates are for all time. But the players head to head scores are only counted for approx. 6 months, from October 2023, as I think it's more relevant to their recent form.
Individual matchup win rates for each player in the last 6 months, all games (with Proleague only stats in brackets): Sharp's TvZ: 59.6% (63.2%) Snow's PvZ: 60.1% (55%) Hero's ZvT: 51.9% (48.2%) Soulkey's ZvP: 55.3% (57.5%) (Sharp's win rate is probably boosted a little bit by him playing in the k league)
R04 Sharp > herO Soulkey > snOw - this one honestly is though call, I think Mini had a better chance to stop Soulkey than SnOw does. I think Soulkey fares better of against players like snOw who are less volatile and more straight forward in their gameplay compared to Mini, kinda bummed out Mini lost even though I predicted it, woulda have been nice to see another PvP. What do you guys think about soulkey vs snow?
On April 08 2024 23:51 prion_ wrote: Did you write this with ChatGPT? The writeups for each map in Mini vs. SK are almost identical to each other, and the Snow vs. Bisu one isn't much better.
Lol, yeah. To be clear, I never take any payment for my previews and have hand written every article I’m in for over a decade now. Because this is just the ro8 and a preview which really just needs to includes how they got here, who they play, and what maps, I wanted to run an experiment where I fed it all the correct data from LP and tailored it with a specific format. I honestly wanted it to work out because reading Elo-board is so tough to do since they use their real Korean names/everything is in Korean, and gathering tournament stats takes many hours. But as you can see it didn’t nail it. If I try it again, I might just use it for formatting only, but I will write all the actual content myself.
Thanks for all your hard work!
As you may know, a lot of folks are probably disappointed in reading GPT content.... I like coming to Teamliquid to talk with humans and read what my fellow humans say. I feel if there's some light GPT editing for grammar and polish, that would be fun to read, but when GPT is generating a lot of the writing, it makes me want to skip these (and I used to look forward to these every set of matches).
I know it's a bunch of hard work to write so much -- but speaking for only myself, I prefer to read fewer human words, rather than more AI words. There's something that feels great about reading what a fellow human truly thinks, rather than what an AI could write for them.
Just my two cents. It's a tough job. Thanks for your hard work over so many years.
Hope this helps. Do ask me if you need some specific stats:
Note that the map win rates are for all time. But the players head to head scores are only counted for approx. 6 months, from October 2023, as I think it's more relevant to their recent form.
Individual matchup win rates for each player in the last 6 months, all games (with Proleague only stats in brackets): Sharp's TvZ: 59.6% (63.2%) Snow's PvZ: 60.1% (55%) Hero's ZvT: 51.9% (48.2%) Soulkey's ZvP: 55.3% (57.5%) (Sharp's win rate is probably boosted a little bit by him playing in the k league)
I'm spoiled this season. Wrong or not, who would have guessed how these played out? Reverse sweeps and all. Now it is all the tougher who to root for next. It couldn't be more neck and neck... Honestly rooting for all contending Ro4 pros. Let's go!
EPT
Bisu and 
Neo Dark Origin (
Soulkey and 
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/eAmC6gB.png)
