EPTwhat is "fantasy gg timing"?
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Soft_General_5023
61 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10092 Posts
Here's the ultimate fantasy gg timing thread. | ||
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FinsT
32 Posts
On March 27 2024 23:53 FlaShFTW wrote: https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/195375-fantasys-gg-timing Here's the ultimate fantasy gg timing thread. That's one hella entertaining thread - thanks for sharing!  P.S. Gotta say, i NEVER really understood why, exactly, "too late" gg is anyhow "bad"? I mean, if they're certainly lost but they don't gg for a lot more time - then it's THEM who's suffering, right? They just prolong their own agony. And the other guy, one who's winning, - ain't he enjoying the fruits of his effort, stomping last remains of the losing guy? Why wouldn't they enjoy doing it for some more while? Even if the losing guy tries to hide or something, - ain't "hide and seek" quite enjoyable when you know you can't lose anyway? So i really, _really_ don't get it why Fantasy's late gg is even named "bad". %) | ||
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Highgamer
1397 Posts
On March 28 2024 03:17 FinsT wrote: P.S. Gotta say, i NEVER really understood why, exactly, "too late" gg is anyhow "bad"? I mean, if they're certainly lost but they don't gg for a lot more time - then it's THEM who's suffering, right? They just prolong their own agony. And the other guy, one who's winning, - ain't he enjoying the fruits of his effort, stomping last remains of the losing guy? Why wouldn't they enjoy doing it for some more while? Even if the losing guy tries to hide or something, - ain't "hide and seek" quite enjoyable when you know you can't lose anyway? So i really, _really_ don't get it why Fantasy's late gg is even named "bad". %) Because a (clearly, obviously) belated gg wastes the time of the opponent (who'd rather go next game) and - in Fantasy's case, like in Starleagues and such - the time of thousands of viewers... I guess if you don't notice that you've lost, you're innocent. If you're aware, then you might just not care about the others involved (or hope for your oppo's disconnect or something), but that's not nice and bad sportsmanship. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10092 Posts
On March 28 2024 03:17 FinsT wrote: That's one hella entertaining thread - thanks for sharing! P.S. Gotta say, i NEVER really understood why, exactly, "too late" gg is anyhow "bad"? I mean, if they're certainly lost but they don't gg for a lot more time - then it's THEM who's suffering, right? They just prolong their own agony. And the other guy, one who's winning, - ain't he enjoying the fruits of his effort, stomping last remains of the losing guy? Why wouldn't they enjoy doing it for some more while? Even if the losing guy tries to hide or something, - ain't "hide and seek" quite enjoyable when you know you can't lose anyway? So i really, _really_ don't get it why Fantasy's late gg is even named "bad". %) It's more that if you're not leaving a clearly lost position, you're just wasting everyone's time. And it's a pain in the ass to go find those floating buildings to eliminate the player. Like needing to kill every little building of the computer. The goal of the game should be to win, not to kill every structure when you're guaranteed to win. | ||
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Ideas
United States8073 Posts
9/10 times fantasy is just delaying the inevitable, but once in a while he is able to turn a lose into a win because his opponent is less cautious than usual because they know they're playing "fantasy gg timing" fantasy but actually fantasy hid a base or tech switch or something because his opponent thinks the game is over when it really isn't. | ||
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avi.live
Ukraine16 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On March 28 2024 05:53 Ideas wrote: It's annoying for viewers when a game is clearly lost but he keeps playing for an extra 5+ minutes. But in the long run it's great for fantasy to give him mental edge vs opponents if he ALWAYS does it (which he does). This way whenever fantasy is losing a game and maybe should leave, his opponent doesn't always immediately assume there's a hidden base somewhere or whatever. 9/10 times fantasy is just delaying the inevitable, but once in a while he is able to turn a lose into a win because his opponent is less cautious than usual because they know they're playing "fantasy gg timing" fantasy but actually fantasy hid a base or tech switch or something because his opponent thinks the game is over when it really isn't. This! | ||
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FinsT
32 Posts
On March 28 2024 04:10 Highgamer wrote: Because a (clearly, obviously) belated gg wastes the time of the opponent (who'd rather go next game) and - in Fantasy's case, like in Starleagues and such - the time of thousands of viewers... I guess if you don't notice that you've lost, you're innocent. If you're aware, then you might just not care about the others involved (or hope for your oppo's disconnect or something), but that's not nice and bad sportsmanship. I understand what you mean - but i doubt what you said is true.  See, "wastes the time" - means that time is spent for no good gain, right? Now, if _every_ guy would delay gg - then sure, everyone would be hating it, it'd be a waste. But as long as only very few players do - i see it as not wasting others' time, both players and viewers alike, because they end up playing / watching something unusual. Unusual - is good! In biology, they say that biological diversity - has big value in and of itself. Kinda same thing, you know? | ||
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tankgirl
352 Posts
On March 27 2024 23:51 Soft_General_5023 wrote: i guess its delayed gg, but what is the history and reason for that? https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/615728-fantasy-gg-timing-working On March 28 2024 06:26 avi.live wrote: I wonder if there was a game where fantasy didn't gg in a very bad situation but made a comeback instead of losing? Fantasy vs. Jaedong on Outsider (ProLeague 08-09) + Show Spoiler + | ||
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FinsT
32 Posts
That's it! Fantasy completely innocent now! If it's even 0.1% he can win and he won "delayed gg" game at least once - i say, he earned the right to do 'em all! :D P.S. I'm new in this forum and your post just made me realize we have proper spoiler tag for embeds, here. Thanks, tankgirl! | ||
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Highgamer
1397 Posts
On March 28 2024 09:10 FinsT wrote: I understand what you mean - but i doubt what you said is true. See, "wastes the time" - means that time is spent for no good gain, right? Now, if _every_ guy would delay gg - then sure, everyone would be hating it, it'd be a waste. But as long as only very few players do - i see it as not wasting others' time, both players and viewers alike, because they end up playing / watching something unusual. Unusual - is good! In biology, they say that biological diversity - has big value in and of itself. Kinda same thing, you know? What I said is true. People don't like to see this kind of unusal: their time wasted and bad sportsmanship by late gg in BW. | ||
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FinsT
32 Posts
On March 28 2024 16:23 Highgamer wrote: ... What I said is true. People don't like to see this kind of unusal: their time wasted and bad sportsmanship by late gg in BW. I still think most viewers and players are pretty OK with it - again, if it's an occasional (not frequent) thing. Would be interesting to see a poll about it. | ||
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Highgamer
1397 Posts
But of course, it can be amusing to see it from time to time - but that's only if we all uphold the rule that it should be avoided. I think it would be kinda lame if someone did it on purpose for "unusual entertainment", but if, in a high-stakes match, a player cannot face the reality of a loss for a while, that has some drama to it. So we agree there. With Fantasy though, I don't even think that he's doing it on purpose or that he can't take a loss. It seems to me that, in those games, he's processing something really hard about why he lost, his mind goes blank for the game that's still running or something. It's not comparable to your typical bad manner late gg like on ladder, I would say. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know him obviously. | ||
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Mutaller
United States1049 Posts
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kornetka
Poland129 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19202 Posts
Maru does the same thing in SC2. Man can he draaaaaag games out, but every once in a while he abuses units like ghosts and players get exhausted and crumble. I think it's a brilliant strategy in boX series because you want to wear down your opponent physically and mentally. | ||
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thossx
2 Posts
Maybe I don't understand the culture but imo it seems a more bm to gripe unpleasantly about a progamer's GG timing than for Fantasy to micro his remaining units from a losing position for a few minutes. I'd be perfectly fine if more players did it, if anything I can feel a bit cheated when players quit early. | ||
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Nirli
Bulgaria357 Posts
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FinsT
32 Posts
On March 28 2024 22:25 Highgamer wrote: Well, initially you said that you didn't really see why late gg is considered a bad thing at all. So I answered to that that, generally, it is considered rude, and that point stands. But of course, it can be amusing to see it from time to time - but that's only if we all uphold the rule that it should be avoided. I think it would be kinda lame if someone did it on purpose for "unusual entertainment", but if, in a high-stakes match, a player cannot face the reality of a loss for a while, that has some drama to it. So we agree there. With Fantasy though, I don't even think that he's doing it on purpose or that he can't take a loss. It seems to me that, in those games, he's processing something really hard about why he lost, his mind goes blank for the game that's still running or something. It's not comparable to your typical bad manner late gg like on ladder, I would say. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know him obviously. Initially i said i don't see why too-late gg is considered "bad", yes. I didn't ask why it's considered "rude". "Bad" and "rude" are two different things, and words. I can see why it's considered rude, yes. But i still think this rude thing - so far as it happens from time to time, not too foten, - is not bad. And we seem to agree about it, yes. Excellent! As for Fantasy's case specifically - my later point still stands i believe: he won one of those too-late-to-gg games, right? Means that every game since that one - he earned the right to delay his gg a good deal if he wants to. Exactly because he demonstrated he's able to win some "miracle" victory, already. You see, in competitive playing, "miracle wins" is one mighty entertaining thing of its own. If you don't delay your gg, you'll never see any; it's _required_ to delay it in order for any "win against all odds" to happen. Now i'm not a competitive Starcraft player myself (i only watch some great guys like Clem play it) - but i was properly competitive player in some other titles in the past. I know how it works, 1st-hand. Even did some miracle wins myself. That's how i know what i'm talking about - personal experience. P.S. One of my "proper miracle" victories, if you'd want a practical example: + Show Spoiler + was in War Thunder, where there were two teams of players driving tanks and flying military aircraft, battling it out. I was a "sniper" of my team, killing a good number of enemy tanks from some high ground, dodging return fire to survive. But despite much damage suffered, enemy team managed to control key points, and my team's score was bleeding down; we'd lose the game if it'd reach zero. And there came the point where enemy team's score lead was so high that all reason dictated everyone in my team would just say "gg", give up and go play another match - yet also, at that point in time, i had enough kills to spawn a bomber. So i did, and by quite a miracle, my bombs destroyed both enemies who were holding one of critical points ("bases"), and in the same time some other guys of my team managed to control that area, stopping score bleed my team was suffering. My team's score bleed (shown by blue bar at the top of the screen) stopped so close to zero that any one more single kill enemy team would do - would win them the whole match. But then everyone in my team got real careful and eager to win, and we managed to destroy all remaining enemies without losing a single guy of our own. I even ran out of shells and had to go to the key point to reload one shell and kill another enemy with it. I.e., that victory we had - by all reason, it couldn't happen. But it did, you see. Such things only happen super-rare - but it's _exactly_ why such things are so special, too. | ||
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