as some of you may know, there is a lot of uncertainty behind FlaSh returning to StarCraft scene after his discharge from army.
FlaSh was discharged back in 2/05/2023, but it's been more than a month with absolutely 0 news on his return at all. To know reason behind that, you need to know the background behind his scandal
First of all, FlaSh was very well known/respected among streamers on his cryptocurrency acuity. He has made a fortune for himself investing into crypto pre-covid years and was well known to point a lot of streamers sought after his advice on investing. However, FlaSh has always kept quiet about his financial gains or success to non-streaming sphere and kept it always to himself in public. Here is video relevant to this topic where he denies his gains
It was rumored through grapevine from various streamers gossips/small talks that FlaSh made well over $30-40m USD worth with his crypto investment (pre crypto scandal), and the video above admits that he made $6m usd on one crypto investment alone.
Suit came into picture with financial power. He was a well known huge donator to various streamers, and was in close contact to many streamers to do collab streamers together and gifting them luxury goods (watches, gucci bags, ect) as well as money. He was particularly close to FlaSh and he and FlaSh had many streams together, especially towards end where he was about to leave for military
Suit was head of company named Global Order and he was reputable with giving donations to various university and likes. So people assumed he was a figure that wanted to give back to community
.
3. FlaSh opening up to public about cryptocurrency
Before he went to army, he did few promotion videos on Suit's company (named Global Order), as well as becoming representative of Foblgate, a blockchain trading firm. This was all very new since FlaSh never really was open about any non-progaming financial gains beforehand, limiting it to talking about his progaming days. Previously, he even really kept his ad-banners on his stream mostly limited to his family's relative's company and such and previously was focused very much on keeping his image as "professional and humble".
He went on and did collab stream with Britney, Gamst, Suit (Britney & Gamst being one of biggest streamers on Afreeca, regularly drawing 40-100k+ viewers), where they talked about money, which was odd since FlaSh wasn't type before to open up publicly about this.
Here is excerpt from his stream, which was promptly deleted few days later.
FlaSh: I made more in 1 month investing in crypto than I did in 10 years. I invested in bunch of places..." Britney: They all rose? FlaSh: yup Britney: Sigh... I need to save up money. I made 4m+ usd streaming, but all I have is 500k saved up" Gamst: Yea, my goal is hit 3m USD this year Britney: Man, Suit must be laughing at us thinking "just 4m-5m?" lol. Suit: naw, not at all Britney: I'm curious. Do rich people invest in crypto as well? Suit: Not me. Only people who become rich through crypto continue with it. I know my area of expertise but that's not crypto. Seems risky to be involved.
But this behavior by itself wasn't anything to be concerned about. Unusual, but not alarming, but...
Suit's company, named Global Order, had a project going where they planned to launch a [start-up cryptocurrency platform called T.O coin
As you can see from picture, it was very ambitious with it planning to give users many sign-up perks and public usage accessibility, as well as trading platform to trade in different cryptocurrencies including T.O coin.
People were investigating some other scandal from another streamer when they discovered that the said streamer and Suit were linked together suspiciously. This lead to chain of events where people discovered eventually that tons of social media influencers were involved his startup cryptocurrency start-up undisclosed to public. FlaSh had $228k USD investment in it, along with Sea, Guemchi, Britney, ect.
This of course, implies that said influencers were encouraged to promote it without disclosing their investment involvement. But we don't know if they intended to disclose yet
Upon discovering this, what people previously thought was innocuous large donation from suit suddenly became a lot more suspicious, and people began to accuse Suit of these not being simple donation as a big fan, but a business venture instead
On top of that, FlaSh was discovered to have been introduced to company named Chainstry through Suit as well....
FlaSh was then revealed to be pretty involved with promoting T.O coin among streamers himself, with his previous reputation being very famous among streamers for his crypto advice even before this crypto incident. Britney admitted that he was introduced to T.O coin by FlaSh himself during his apology video. Bisu admitted this as well
T.O coin was then promptly cancelled even before launch despite being close to launch due to heavy media focus and general image damage.
Since the Crypto scandal, all of the influencers involved have all returned to streaming except FlaSh. For Britney and Sea, they even gained viewers through popularity of SC university content on top of not taking as much damage as they were pretty scandals-heavy even before cryptocurrency.
However, bigger damage would be to streamers who focused on keeping their PR clean & professional like FlaSh and Bisu. Bisu has since then lost sizable part of his viewerbase, with him only really retaining 30-50% of his previous viewercount pre crypto scandal.
FlaSh previously planned his triumphant return on 2/05/2023, which spells out his name (205=Lee Young Ho). However, it was derailed by crypto-scandal, which led him to become radio silent to this day. He has not yet posted anything public since his announcements nearly 2 years ago.
Crypto incident was pretty big damage to his image and people are wondering if he will come back at all. It's speculated in korean community he's either taking break after coming back from army, coming back next asl or never returning at all. But he's very strange there has been absolutely nothing from his side as most people at least make announcement for remaining fans waiting.
FlaSh almost certainly doesn't have much financial incentive to return due to him being well off even before he went to army (well-off family, significant income from streaming, crypto gains from investing, ect), but he does leave a lot of his BW fans hanging with this.
In end of day, biggest damage to FlaSh is to his reputation that he worked so carefully to build up over the years. Whether it determines his return is up for air
=== tl;dr === 1) Donator named Suit begins to donate a lot and hang with flash
2) flash becomes head of various crypto-related company PR rep
3) contract leaked, FlaSh & other influencers revealed to be involved in Suit's coin startup pre-launch in secret
4) implied Crypto pump and dump NEVER HAPPENED. Launch itself was stopped due to heavy media focus and criticism
Who the hell would want to have anything to do with a company called Global Order?
Interesting read, thanks. Still hope Flash comes back eventually, never was a big fan of him even before the scandal but the competition isn't the same without him.
At least he destroyed everyone in 2009 unlike some other dude /s
Thanks for putting this all together. It makes it so much easier to grasp the whole coin thing.
It's a shame Flash fell victim to his own greed. He should have known better, but I imagine Suit's presence and actions overruled Flash's conscience or worse: Flash was further maneuvered into this position through manipulation/blackmailing.
It's rather strange there is literally no news on him since his military discharge. I can't imagine being the GOAT and quite abruptly not being able to compete anymore. No amount of fuck-you-money will sweeten that compunction. I can't help but feel like there is something really fishy going on here. If Bisu returned, why can't/won't Flash?
The most mind-blowing thing about Korean media consumption compared to the USA is how mid-size scandals can actually inflict severe and long-lasting damage to viewership. Stuff that's a minor PR speedbump in the states could destroy someone's career in Korea if it picked up momentum.
On March 16 2023 14:48 Waxangel wrote: The most mind-blowing thing about Korean media consumption compared to the USA is how mid-size scandals can actually inflict severe and long-lasting damage to viewership. Stuff that's a minor PR speedbump in the states could destroy someone's career in Korea if it picked up momentum.
outrage optimized.
One sticks and people want it to stick a lot of times. A lot of internet communities seem to be desperate for outrage. An example would be YouTuber Seungwooappa getting in some tremendously minor scandals(?) all the time for tiny things he does and people seem to be desperate to be mad
honestly, if FlaSh just handled his announcements well when this scandal came out, think he would have been fine. Just that dumpster fire of announcement just solidified his image
So to sum it up - Flash participated in a some sort of a scam and was about to scam other people, you claim that he is super smart and made millions in crypto, while making good decisions, but he could not see the scam that he is about to participate in.
Stuff goes public somehow and he backs off and claims to not have the slightest clue that he was about to participate in a ponzi/pnd/scam and his mother made him do it.
now i see him as a bigger goat then before. that "scandal" aside, flash is a millionaire and he is from rich family so he played BW because of love and he is/was so great in it, wow.
Knowing korean exagerations of things. FlaSh is taking a break after 2 years military. I remember Flash mention before doing his debut on Afreeca he was talking to celebrities to teach him the basics . There is a big chance FlaSh is atm with a team that deal with scandals making the best strategy for his return. in 1-2 months he will be around again.
I for sure am not going to miss this pathetic scammer and I think the scene is better off without him, he's too compromised and dirty now, I think. Also, Flash is gone for two years now and I don't see Bw becoming boring. Thus I sincerely hope he never shows up although I doubt it, I feel like his greed for attention will prevail. What's worse, I'm convinced he will be warmly embraced if he decides to become active again. Yet I can never bring myself to like him again. Before the crypto crap he was likable, now to me he's just repulsive.
Eh Sea and Bisu were involved as well and came back just fine. Biggest part about this "scandal" is that no one actually lost any money, so it's quite odd that people make such a big deal out of it. We're all lucky to be alive at a time where we can watch Flash play Starcraft. I pray that we'll get to see his art again soon.
Did Bisu actually lose 50-70% of his viewership though? I think he's on similar number of live viewers compared to pre-scandal.
He's #7 on balloon donations in 2022 among BW streamers, and when you remove Britney Sea Calm Terror who are not competitive players, he's #2, only behind Shuttle and tie with JD (and Shuttle does theatrical stuff as well). Not bad for losing 50-70% viewership eh?
Long story short, I don't think losing viewers (if actually there is any loses) is a concern for Flash.
On March 16 2023 22:34 Lorch wrote: Biggest part about this "scandal" is that no one actually lost any money, so it's quite odd that people make such a big deal out of it.
On March 16 2023 19:08 Zergiica wrote: now i see him as a bigger goat then before. that "scandal" aside, flash is a millionaire and he is from rich family so he played BW because of love and he is/was so great in it, wow.
Yeah mate, me too; I always respect people born into comfort and riches way more than those dirty poors.
It's not like he match fixed or something so God's image can't be damaged! Viewers who think he's scammer are welcome to no longer watch him. I think he shouldn't make a big deal out of it and start streaming - I think it will be better for him and people will eventually forget if not already forgot that scandal.
BTW I remember there were really really mean comments like he killed their mom on his YT channel on his last farewell video so FlaSh must be shook reading them, he must be sensitive so took into heart so I think that's why he still didn't show up.
Did Flash really mean his mom made the investment instead of him initially? Got a bit confused after reading the 2021 thread since in the second announcement he said it was him who made that investment. Either way, they must've known what they were doing and the fact that they tried to deny their investments confirms it. Why would they deny investing if they didn't know? On one hand, people watching/donating to them have the right to be angry, on the other, nobody forced them to invest in an unknown currency. Nice moral dilemma, i didn't pay attention when it happened, but after reading through this and understanding what went on, i'd still watch them play starcraft. This story probably begs for criminal investigation for attempted robbery (don't know if there already is one), but from what i've seen people with money rarely get behind bars.
Btw, thank you once again for the translated content jinjin!
On March 17 2023 03:14 outscar wrote: It's not like he match fixed or something so God's image can't be damaged! Viewers who think he's scammer are welcome to no longer watch him. I think he shouldn't make a big deal out of it and start streaming - I think it will be better for him and people will eventually forget if not already forgot that scandal.
BTW I remember there were really really mean comments like he killed their mom on his YT channel on his last farewell video so FlaSh must be shook reading them, he must be sensitive so took into heart so I think that's why he still didn't show up.
Let's be completely honest, he's probably set for life money wise from what he got from streaming unless he blew it all. He could probably never work a day or ever stream again and he'll be fine lol
Still regardless of if people thought he was a scammer/scamming him nobody should be subject to comments like those. It seems Korean nietzens can be really cruel from what I've heard.
On March 17 2023 03:14 outscar wrote: It's not like he match fixed or something so God's image can't be damaged! Viewers who think he's scammer are welcome to no longer watch him. I think he shouldn't make a big deal out of it and start streaming - I think it will be better for him and people will eventually forget if not already forgot that scandal.
BTW I remember there were really really mean comments like he killed their mom on his YT channel on his last farewell video so FlaSh must be shook reading them, he must be sensitive so took into heart so I think that's why he still didn't show up.
Let's be completely honest, he's probably set for life money wise from what he got from streaming unless he blew it all. He could probably never work a day or ever stream again and he'll be fine lol
Still regardless of if people thought he was a scammer/scamming him nobody should be subject to comments like those. It seems Korean nietzens can be really cruel from what I've heard.
Re: Korean netizens, I read an article recently about one of my favorite Korean musicians which basically explained that a lot of them feel like they have the duty to be social police basically, that in turn leads to crazy dramas out of nothing. I can't find the article right now but here is a lengthy Reddit thread that touches on the subject:
TLDR: Successful musician's academic background is questioned due to netizen rumors (like, he never went to Stanford/never graduated), it turns into an all-out witch hunt, and because education is so important in Korea, people were sending him and his family death threats, it left him with long-term trauma. Some people went to prison. Pretty fascinating read which might help outsiders (like me) understand Korean netizen backlash/drama culture better.
Then again, we have similar haters like JoinTheRain on our very own forums, so perhaps not too far removed from our own online experience.
since then i havent really followed the scandal as public interest also died out, so if there are any new facts that contradict my summary id be interested to hear it, but otherwise i think the contents of that post is still relevant.
As a viewer i couldnt care less, if Flash comes back ill watch and compare him to Light and be happy. I love Terran competition.
As a friend to Flash thats probably worse off and i guess time will tell if he still got any friends.
Flash as a product (BW) is still strong if he havent lost it all (skills).
If he has viewers on his stream is rather irrelevant unless he feels thats what he needs or he wont stream. He wouldnt know this beforehand so in that sense he needs to start streaming again to know.
Most still consider Flash as top tier and that in itself makes him likeable from a competitive standpoint.
On March 16 2023 18:49 M3t4PhYzX wrote: Korean BW tournaments are much more interesting without him anways, imo.
Seeing someone play random in a modern major Korean tournament was interesting if you ask me.
That was actually interesting, yes. If he continued to do that I would watch every single game of it and enjoy it very much. Sadly, I think it was just a one-time stint.
Reading about Flash being involved in this crypto scam BS was a huge disappointment for me personally, but as he's one of the greatest esports athletes ever, if not the greatest I'm sure hoping to watch him play in ASL again.
On March 16 2023 14:48 Waxangel wrote: The most mind-blowing thing about Korean media consumption compared to the USA is how mid-size scandals can actually inflict severe and long-lasting damage to viewership. Stuff that's a minor PR speedbump in the states could destroy someone's career in Korea if it picked up momentum.
Yeah in America you guys have actual "politicians" with seats in congress spewing flat out 100% debunked lies to the public without any form of consequences, sitting over here in Scandinavia Europe we are scratching our heads wondering how that is even remotely possible to have that kind of behavior without getting removed from politics.
USA aka Freedom to lie about anything regardless of what consequences it might have on human lives.
I think he's only taken some time off. You know, as other streamers involved in that scandal had to experience some down time due to it, to "reflect on their sins". I think it's 6 months for Bisu. If Flash comes straight back after his military service, people would say that that effectively means he doesn't have to suffer any consequences despite him being the "mastermind" of the scam. It's not a nice picture he wants to paint himself is it? Probably the best time is the next ASL.
Except for the worst crimes, it's probably better for the life of a competitive game if leading players are confidently overtaken by others before retiring. Although it's also acceptable if someone can demonstrate that overtaking without direct competition.
On March 16 2023 14:48 Waxangel wrote: The most mind-blowing thing about Korean media consumption compared to the USA is how mid-size scandals can actually inflict severe and long-lasting damage to viewership. Stuff that's a minor PR speedbump in the states could destroy someone's career in Korea if it picked up momentum.
Yeah in America you guys have actual "politicians" with seats in congress spewing flat out 100% debunked lies to the public without any form of consequences, sitting over here in Scandinavia Europe we are scratching our heads wondering how that is even remotely possible to have that kind of behavior without getting removed from politics.
USA aka Freedom to lie about anything regardless of what consequences it might have on human lives.
On March 18 2023 01:10 TMNT wrote: I think he's only taken some time off. You know, as other streamers involved in that scandal had to experience some down time due to it, to "reflect on their sins". I think it's 6 months for Bisu. If Flash comes straight back after his military service, people would say that that effectively means he doesn't have to suffer any consequences despite him being the "mastermind" of the scam. It's not a nice picture he wants to paint himself is it? Probably the best time is the next ASL.
is this determined by afreeca? they pretty much own everything since they have the power to ban players ie savior.
I feel like people are kind of missing out that it's not because FlaSh did the initial investing that people are outraged about (well, a some people are but thats moot point) but it's rather the rather secretive/underhanded marketing campaign focused around influencers to promote the product without disclosing their involvement or investing/advertisement of it leading up to right before scandal is what people got mad about.
undisclosed paid advertisement is the outrage here. Korean YouTube also had similar scandal few years prior and this was the next progression/target after it I guess. But here we have advertisement/promotion but undisclosed involvement w/ personal stakes in the said product
On March 20 2023 15:09 jinjin5000 wrote: I feel like people are kind of missing out that it's not because FlaSh did the initial investing that people are outraged about (well, a some people are but thats moot point) but it's rather the rather secretive/underhanded marketing campaign focused around influencers to promote the product without disclosing their involvement or investing/advertisement of it leading up to right before scandal is what people got mad about.
undisclosed paid advertisement is the outrage here. Korean YouTube also had similar scandal few years prior and this was the next progression/target after it I guess.
We all make mistakes... and will continue to make if we want to be Loving and Learning in our way to God... Or what ever Our Ideal understanding of Life might be.
The Key Point for Me is always in 100% Admitting to oneself our own miss-steps as Truthfully as Humanly Possible. This Way... We take the Absolute fastest root into Self-Development. Throwing away Our Ego ToTally... Always... Grants us having the closest Perspective-View of Soul(Heart) and Spirit(God Consciousness) that was built WithIn Us as a Gift... as is Our Life in General... Regardless of Circumstances.
But Yes... When It's someone the magnitude of Flash... It's Absolutely Crucial to be as Transparent As... Notice... Godly Possible. This is what brother ZZZero should be mainly Improving On in the Future. Outside of murdering his whole Ego... Like I have atleast one Time... When I admitted Infront of our whole BSL Community... how I sinned in order to have food on my table... and sold my match vs Dewaltu in the BSL6 ro16....
Now... It was Nearly.... Impossible for anyone to catch Me... and I'm not Even close... to the recognition Flash Has... But the Reason it was Vital for Me to put Myself on a Cross For Everyone to See... Was Way Too Simple... I now not only Knew of countless times Top Korean Pro's have sold matches... But Also started Seeing HOW MUCH BSL MATCHES PEOPLE WERE SELLING......
All in All... We Must All Be EverForgiving... EverLoving... But First... Ever Admitting... Ever TruthFull... Atleast... Fully to Oneself... Else... We get lost in our own self...
On March 16 2023 11:08 Zealgoon wrote: Who the hell would want to have anything to do with a company called Global Order?
Interesting read, thanks. Still hope Flash comes back eventually, never was a big fan of him even before the scandal but the competition isn't the same without him.
Actually, the competition is more interesting without him. Anyway all the mentioned scammers are scumbags.
On March 16 2023 14:48 Waxangel wrote: The most mind-blowing thing about Korean media consumption compared to the USA is how mid-size scandals can actually inflict severe and long-lasting damage to viewership. Stuff that's a minor PR speedbump in the states could destroy someone's career in Korea if it picked up momentum.
outrage optimized.
It's really sad to see how this toxic culture is causing so much damage, I think there's a lot of envy and insecurity going on around the world and it makes sense given the way we are running our society.
For me I at least, his reputation hasn't change one bit. He is still the best gamer I have ever seen play, a testament of a unique mind. Why would I care about his personal affairs when the devil is in the detail wich I certainly don't know because I dont know him on that level? And I don't need to, only by watching play BW I know with 100% certainty that he is an amazing human beeing,a one in a millon talent.
Flash you would have to learn to give a f$&% what some/most people think. Here in Argentina for years we had many many idiots who "loved" soccer but hated Messi with passion for some reason, this is how toxic we are. But ''the people that love football know Messi is the best'' right? So hurry up and come back, we are wating to see The Best
I've spent a lot of time in gaming communities with scandals (good job gamers) and my general feeling is that if no one in the community was actually directly hurt, it should be fine to let them return, but just be more wary of them in the future.
And honestly with crypto... yeah it's very scummy to promote a pump and dump, but it's the viewer's responsibility if they invest their own money into something shady. Maybe viewers will take this as a warning and start using their brains a bit more before listening to everything a streamer says.
Meanwhile, Flash's reputation will take a very deserved hit, so hopefully he feels some consequences for his actions.
I hope he comes back after properly reflecting and issuing a better apology (take responsibility and don't blame your mom...), and doesn't repeat this kind of mistake again.
EDIT: I read jinjin's later post about "undisclosed paid advertising" - also agree that's scummy, especially in the context of a crypto product, and should not be allowed
where was the evidence of "undisclosed paid advertising"? iirc in the previous thread there was never any evidence provided for any streamer advertising TO coin, including flash. its not advertising unless they explicitly mention TO coin on their stream, and none of the streamers did.
On March 21 2023 11:15 evilfatsh1t wrote: where was the evidence of "undisclosed paid advertising"? iirc in the previous thread there was never any evidence provided for any streamer advertising TO coin, including flash. its not advertising unless they explicitly mention TO coin on their stream, and none of the streamers did.
I mean, leading up to the incident, Suit came out of nowhere and was very prominent on a lot of popular streamers showing off his wealth and establishing himself as wealthy trustworthy figure. Then the scandal exploded when there was streamers advertising the TO coin application didn't it?
What I meant was undisclosed paid advertising was it was similar to the YouTube undisclosed advertising incident, but here, we have advertising for app and crypto coin itself but they didn't disclose their investment/stakes in it. (which is what all the fuss was about)
think this was the beginning of trouble point
anways, the outrage culture in first place is what's making it hard for FlaSh to comeback since the ball already rolled when he blotched his 1st apology and it grew to scale beyond what he could have managed after
I think Flash fully deserves another chance at streaming. He didn't do anything so wrong that redemption can't be an option. Knetizens need to calm their tits.
On March 21 2023 11:15 evilfatsh1t wrote: where was the evidence of "undisclosed paid advertising"? iirc in the previous thread there was never any evidence provided for any streamer advertising TO coin, including flash. its not advertising unless they explicitly mention TO coin on their stream, and none of the streamers did.
I mean, leading up to the incident, Suit came out of nowhere and was very prominent on a lot of popular streamers showing off his wealth and establishing himself as wealthy trustworthy figure. Then the scandal exploded when there was streamers advertising the TO coin application didn't it?
What I meant was undisclosed paid advertising was it was similar to the YouTube undisclosed advertising incident, but here, we have advertising for app and crypto coin itself but they didn't disclose their investment/stakes in it. (which is what all the fuss was about)
anways, the outrage culture in first place is what's making it hard for FlaSh to comeback since the ball already rolled when he blotched his 1st apology and it grew to scale beyond what he could have managed after
i touched on how the incident started in this post https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/574711-flashs-crypto-scandal?page=2#39 (an earlier post than the one i linked before) from the previous thread. the guy in the video is kote and hes a streamer that has pretty much nothing to do with starcraft.
the starcraft streamers got pulled into this when a "journalist" got hands on a shareholder record and saw their names on the list as investors. with suit already having had his name dragged through the mud, people like flash/britney/bisu/sea etc. were crucified for their mere association and presumed participation of pump and dump. thats completely different from saying they explicitly promoted the coin, which never happened.
On March 21 2023 11:15 evilfatsh1t wrote: where was the evidence of "undisclosed paid advertising"? iirc in the previous thread there was never any evidence provided for any streamer advertising TO coin, including flash. its not advertising unless they explicitly mention TO coin on their stream, and none of the streamers did.
I mean, leading up to the incident, Suit came out of nowhere and was very prominent on a lot of popular streamers showing off his wealth and establishing himself as wealthy trustworthy figure. Then the scandal exploded when there was streamers advertising the TO coin application didn't it?
What I meant was undisclosed paid advertising was it was similar to the YouTube undisclosed advertising incident, but here, we have advertising for app and crypto coin itself but they didn't disclose their investment/stakes in it. (which is what all the fuss was about)
anways, the outrage culture in first place is what's making it hard for FlaSh to comeback since the ball already rolled when he blotched his 1st apology and it grew to scale beyond what he could have managed after
i touched on how the incident started in this post https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/574711-flashs-crypto-scandal?page=2#39 (an earlier post than the one i linked before) from the previous thread. the guy in the video is kote and hes a streamer that has pretty much nothing to do with starcraft.
the starcraft streamers got pulled into this when a "journalist" got hands on a shareholder record and saw their names on the list as investors. with suit already having had his name dragged through the mud, people like flash/britney/bisu/sea etc. were crucified for their mere association and presumed participation of pump and dump. thats completely different from saying they explicitly promoted the coin, which never happened.
I know but that ad was when it exploded Flash was most involved out of sc guys for sure and suit definitely tried to deny streamers involvement. It was just allround pr disaster.
They promoted the company behind coin and flash was filming a lot of ad for crypto firms as well during that time. They havent moved on to promoting TO coin itself but the structure was set with him promoting global order and all. Yea nothing happened after due to scandal hard stopping but the parts to cogs were there so i can understand the outrage. I think people are right to be upset on that part since there was clear layered plan laid out for them to clearly see. People dont like it when people they looked up to as "honest & professional" betray that trust (altho i think constant circlejerking is bit much)
it's quite cynical to jump to conclusion that flash was intending to mislead or other investors were, but I don't think it's such a reach for people to react negatively. The outrage culture that goes around even to this day, yes, but I think it's reasonable for people to be upset over this
Also flash also mishandled his announcement super badly and that was disasterous too. You dont see guemchi getting that much flack anymore because he handled his apology swiftly and to the point.
At a base crypto seems like a scam, so I don't see what flash did as much worse than anyone else. And it happened at a time where everyone was pushing various levels of scam cryptocurrency, be it influencers or average people who thought they were investors.
Remember that time Elon Musk tweeted about Dogecoin and the price shot up despite Dogecoin being obvious satire about the value of crypto...
On March 24 2023 02:21 Eywa- wrote: At a base crypto seems like a scam, so I don't see what flash did as much worse than anyone else. And it happened at a time where everyone was pushing various levels of scam cryptocurrency, be it influencers or average people who thought they were investors.
Remember that time Elon Musk tweeted about Dogecoin and the price shot up despite Dogecoin being obvious satire about the value of crypto...
Also, I want to see FlaSh play in ASL again.
I saw something about how there is a potential lawsuit related to him inflating Dogecoin like that, but who knows
I wrote the script yea, and removed/cleaned some of the stuff that may not have been accurate from the posts and all since all the stuff was wrapped in outrage even to this day.
if you want more details on what happened afterwards, you can read evilfatsh1t's posts after on the thread
But why do people belive that starcraft streamers and AMAZING players are also good at finance ? I don't get it.
I only listen to a player if he tells something about starcraft and thats it !
Like fighters who stop competing and start talking about religion , money , politics etc. Mate, how is your opinion more entitled than anyone else ?
I love Jaedong with all my heart, but I will not buy a coin if he says so.
I will only buy something if it helps him directly and he admits. Then I'll do it in an instant, no problem ; i don't want anything in return nor do i want to earn some money later.
Yeah, this is one of those things, when a celebrity, actor or a streamer in this case promotes something like this I assume one of 3 scenarios: 1. They're getting paid to advertise and have no idea about the actual "product" (most likely) 2. They're getting scammed themselves 3. They're in on the scam Maybe some sort of combination of the three.
But unfortunately many people don't think like that and using someone recognizable with an established audience works, it works very well. Whatever the details really are, Flash was at least irresponsible and handled the fallout of the the situation badly. I hope he comes back, but I'd understand if he doesn't.
On April 06 2023 14:00 prosatan wrote: But why do people belive that starcraft streamers and AMAZING players are also good at finance ? I don't get it.
I only listen to a player if he tells something about starcraft and thats it !
Like fighters who stop competing and start talking about religion , money , politics etc. Mate, how is your opinion more entitled than anyone else ?
I love Jaedong with all my heart, but I will not buy a coin if he says so.
I will only buy something if it helps him directly and he admits. Then I'll do it in an instant, no problem ; i don't want anything in return nor do i want to earn some money later.
Did you not read what he wrote?
Flash has a reputation for making an absolute fortune from crypto investing in the past.
On April 06 2023 14:00 prosatan wrote: But why do people belive that starcraft streamers and AMAZING players are also good at finance ? I don't get it.
I only listen to a player if he tells something about starcraft and thats it !
Like fighters who stop competing and start talking about religion , money , politics etc. Mate, how is your opinion more entitled than anyone else ?
I love Jaedong with all my heart, but I will not buy a coin if he says so.
I will only buy something if it helps him directly and he admits. Then I'll do it in an instant, no problem ; i don't want anything in return nor do i want to earn some money later.
a lot of people can't think for themselves, and need other people to tell them what to think or do
On April 06 2023 14:00 prosatan wrote: But why do people belive that starcraft streamers and AMAZING players are also good at finance ? I don't get it.
I only listen to a player if he tells something about starcraft and thats it !
Like fighters who stop competing and start talking about religion , money , politics etc. Mate, how is your opinion more entitled than anyone else ?
I love Jaedong with all my heart, but I will not buy a coin if he says so.
I will only buy something if it helps him directly and he admits. Then I'll do it in an instant, no problem ; i don't want anything in return nor do i want to earn some money later.
a lot of people can't think for themselves, and need other people to tell them what to think or do
Yeah but to be fair we are not rational beings and it can be difficult ignore the weight of someone's word overall when they're such an authority in one specific area of life. Like Flash is with Brood War
On March 16 2023 22:34 Lorch wrote: Biggest part about this "scandal" is that no one actually lost any money, so it's quite odd that people make such a big deal out of it.
I mean, if you intent to scam people and the only reason you don't is because it comes to daylight before anyone can get scammed, then it's still problematic, isn't it?
On March 16 2023 22:34 Lorch wrote: Biggest part about this "scandal" is that no one actually lost any money, so it's quite odd that people make such a big deal out of it.
I mean, if you intent to scam people and the only reason you don't is because it comes to daylight before anyone can get scammed, then it's still problematic, isn't it?
If you ask me, letting us see him play again would be one good way of making amends.
He is the undoubted GOAT of BW and many people just want to see him play again. He did something really wrong and stupid, but he didn't kill a guy or s.th. One more sincere apology, and don't touch the crypto-topic or anything alike ever again.
He could just return on a smaller scale first to see how it's going, with gameplay focussed streaming, no ASL or spon-matches etc., but I wonder if that's possible, given the small size of the BW streamer community, how close they are and how big a name Flash is. Sure he would get dragged in in all kinds of awkward chats ever so often.
And maybe it's just not what he wants at this point, maybe he doesn't want to be in the spotlight again with this kind of thing in everyone's mind.
(But for god's sake: He could just make a smurf, get no1 ladder, and everyone knows it's him but he doesn't say a word. That'd be cool as a test balloon)
On April 06 2024 01:05 Highgamer wrote: If you ask me, letting us see him play again would be one good way of making amends.
He is the undoubted GOAT of BW and many people just want to see him play again. He did something really wrong and stupid, but he didn't kill a guy or s.th. One more sincere apology, and don't touch the crypto-topic or anything alike ever again.
He could just return on a smaller scale first to see how it's going, with gameplay focussed streaming, no ASL or spon-matches etc., but I wonder if that's possible, given the small size of the BW streamer community, how close they are and how big a name Flash is. Sure he would get dragged in in all kinds of awkward chats ever so often.
And maybe it's just not what he wants at this point, maybe he doesn't want to be in the spotlight again with this kind of thing in everyone's mind.
(But for god's sake: He could just make a smurf, get no1 ladder, and everyone knows it's him but he doesn't say a word. That'd be cool as a test balloon)
Alternatively fuck that noise. Only reason anyone is giving him any benefit of the doubt is he’s prenaturally gifted at BW to an absurd degree
Folks wanna see Flash do his thing end of the day.
On April 06 2024 01:05 Highgamer wrote: If you ask me, letting us see him play again would be one good way of making amends.
He is the undoubted GOAT of BW and many people just want to see him play again. He did something really wrong and stupid, but he didn't kill a guy or s.th. One more sincere apology, and don't touch the crypto-topic or anything alike ever again.
He could just return on a smaller scale first to see how it's going, with gameplay focussed streaming, no ASL or spon-matches etc., but I wonder if that's possible, given the small size of the BW streamer community, how close they are and how big a name Flash is. Sure he would get dragged in in all kinds of awkward chats ever so often.
And maybe it's just not what he wants at this point, maybe he doesn't want to be in the spotlight again with this kind of thing in everyone's mind.
(But for god's sake: He could just make a smurf, get no1 ladder, and everyone knows it's him but he doesn't say a word. That'd be cool as a test balloon)
Alternatively fuck that noise. Only reason anyone is giving him any benefit of the doubt is he’s prenaturally gifted at BW to an absurd degree
Folks wanna see Flash do his thing end of the day.
That "noise" is called weighing our knowledge about a person's whole life - instead of zealously hating them for the rest of time because they once did something wrong.
It's not only about Flash's skill and "superstars get away with everything" (which they don't, as Flash's example proves).
More like: Here we have a gifted player, in the spotlight since he was a kid, proven to be working incredibly hard for years and years under enormous pressure, giving us countless hours of supreme entertainment, all that while building up a reputation of a humble person with good sportsmanship. If you ask me, that's something to give him a bit of credit for... As he starts streaming, we see more that he's also just a young man with big money and quite an ego (if you're looking for angels, go to heaven), then he does this one big mistake out of greed and suddenly some people can only go "Bring the pitchforks!!!".
There may well be another side of this story: Flash could well go doing something else in his life, something which is really big and worth his effort, possibly even more than streaming BW games. It's very often many people assume that someone highly capable about one certain thing - can only ever be a major figure only if doing that same thing, for entirety of their life. Not the case - plenty examples when world-class players go do "something else" and end up being even more successful, there. For example, Alireza Firouzja, a super-GM and one of top-10 chess players in the world? Didn't quit playing chess yet, but went for a career in clothing design in the same time. He's hella young, and quite soon he may well stop playing and go clothing designing full-time. And clothing designers usually don't stream, you know. And even get pretty secretive about their works - so that other, competing clothing designers wouldn't steal their original ideas.
Could it be Flash simply did something similar - i.e., chose a different career, one which for this or that respectable reason is not about, or possibly even against, having public's attention to it? Perhaps he went financial consultant for the super-rich, for example? Do we even know what he's doing nowadays?
I'd seek answers to these questions 1st and foremost before trying to figure out what's what about Flash today, for sure.
if flash was doing something completely different career wise and was not considering returning to streaming at all, we would already know. his colleagues would no doubt know about this and would have told fans already that flash has shut the door on streaming for whatever reason.
On April 06 2024 01:05 Highgamer wrote: If you ask me, letting us see him play again would be one good way of making amends.
He is the undoubted GOAT of BW and many people just want to see him play again. He did something really wrong and stupid, but he didn't kill a guy or s.th. One more sincere apology, and don't touch the crypto-topic or anything alike ever again.
He could just return on a smaller scale first to see how it's going, with gameplay focussed streaming, no ASL or spon-matches etc., but I wonder if that's possible, given the small size of the BW streamer community, how close they are and how big a name Flash is. Sure he would get dragged in in all kinds of awkward chats ever so often.
And maybe it's just not what he wants at this point, maybe he doesn't want to be in the spotlight again with this kind of thing in everyone's mind.
(But for god's sake: He could just make a smurf, get no1 ladder, and everyone knows it's him but he doesn't say a word. That'd be cool as a test balloon)
Alternatively fuck that noise. Only reason anyone is giving him any benefit of the doubt is he’s prenaturally gifted at BW to an absurd degree
Folks wanna see Flash do his thing end of the day.
That "noise" is called weighing our knowledge about a person's whole life - instead of zealously hating them for the rest of time because they once did something wrong.
It's not only about Flash's skill and "superstars get away with everything" (which they don't, as Flash's example proves).
More like: Here we have a gifted player, in the spotlight since he was a kid, proven to be working incredibly hard for years and years under enormous pressure, giving us countless hours of supreme entertainment, all that while building up a reputation of a humble person with good sportsmanship. If you ask me, that's something to give him a bit of credit for... As he starts streaming, we see more that he's also just a young man with big money and quite an ego (if you're looking for angels, go to heaven), then he does this one big mistake out of greed and suddenly some people can only go "Bring the pitchforks!!!".
He did do a pretty shitty thing, people are rightfully annoyed.
I absolutely agree he should be able to come back and do his thing, as to how that would look I’d be unsure. I’m not a fan of a lifetime of exile for a mistake, or ill-judgement at all.
On April 06 2024 01:05 Highgamer wrote: If you ask me, letting us see him play again would be one good way of making amends.
He is the undoubted GOAT of BW and many people just want to see him play again. He did something really wrong and stupid, but he didn't kill a guy or s.th. One more sincere apology, and don't touch the crypto-topic or anything alike ever again.
He could just return on a smaller scale first to see how it's going, with gameplay focussed streaming, no ASL or spon-matches etc., but I wonder if that's possible, given the small size of the BW streamer community, how close they are and how big a name Flash is. Sure he would get dragged in in all kinds of awkward chats ever so often.
And maybe it's just not what he wants at this point, maybe he doesn't want to be in the spotlight again with this kind of thing in everyone's mind.
(But for god's sake: He could just make a smurf, get no1 ladder, and everyone knows it's him but he doesn't say a word. That'd be cool as a test balloon)
Alternatively fuck that noise. Only reason anyone is giving him any benefit of the doubt is he’s prenaturally gifted at BW to an absurd degree
Folks wanna see Flash do his thing end of the day.
That "noise" is called weighing our knowledge about a person's whole life - instead of zealously hating them for the rest of time because they once did something wrong.
It's not only about Flash's skill and "superstars get away with everything" (which they don't, as Flash's example proves).
More like: Here we have a gifted player, in the spotlight since he was a kid, proven to be working incredibly hard for years and years under enormous pressure, giving us countless hours of supreme entertainment, all that while building up a reputation of a humble person with good sportsmanship. If you ask me, that's something to give him a bit of credit for... As he starts streaming, we see more that he's also just a young man with big money and quite an ego (if you're looking for angels, go to heaven), then he does this one big mistake out of greed and suddenly some people can only go "Bring the pitchforks!!!".
He did do a pretty shitty thing, people are rightfully annoyed.
I absolutely agree he should be able to come back and do his thing, as to how that would look I’d be unsure. I’m not a fan of a lifetime of exile for a mistake, or ill-judgement at all.
Oh sorry. No native speaker here, I had to look up "fuck that noise" (phrase to show strong disagreement with a statement/opinion), and I thought you were completely disagreeing with my whole post's message of "yes, really bad move and rightful anger at that, but given repentance is shown, he shouldn't be an outcast for ever more". Given my misunderstanding, I thought your last sentence about people wanting to see him play was sarcasm (as in "people don't care as long as famous person plays well/is pretty/is entertaining" etc..)
Assuming Flash has committed an offense (which I think is debatable), it would be outside of his SC career, but within his streaming career. I think that's part of the reason why it's difficult for some people to let him to make a full return. If I recall correctly Flash was also accused of not owning up to his mistake, and that could also play into it. It makes sense that he wouldn't admit to a crime, because he wasn't involved in criminal behavior. That complicates matters, as there are always people who are unwilling to make a distinction.
On April 06 2024 01:05 Highgamer wrote: If you ask me, letting us see him play again would be one good way of making amends.
He is the undoubted GOAT of BW and many people just want to see him play again. He did something really wrong and stupid, but he didn't kill a guy or s.th. One more sincere apology, and don't touch the crypto-topic or anything alike ever again.
He could just return on a smaller scale first to see how it's going, with gameplay focussed streaming, no ASL or spon-matches etc., but I wonder if that's possible, given the small size of the BW streamer community, how close they are and how big a name Flash is. Sure he would get dragged in in all kinds of awkward chats ever so often.
And maybe it's just not what he wants at this point, maybe he doesn't want to be in the spotlight again with this kind of thing in everyone's mind.
(But for god's sake: He could just make a smurf, get no1 ladder, and everyone knows it's him but he doesn't say a word. That'd be cool as a test balloon)
Alternatively fuck that noise. Only reason anyone is giving him any benefit of the doubt is he’s prenaturally gifted at BW to an absurd degree
Folks wanna see Flash do his thing end of the day.
That "noise" is called weighing our knowledge about a person's whole life - instead of zealously hating them for the rest of time because they once did something wrong.
It's not only about Flash's skill and "superstars get away with everything" (which they don't, as Flash's example proves).
More like: Here we have a gifted player, in the spotlight since he was a kid, proven to be working incredibly hard for years and years under enormous pressure, giving us countless hours of supreme entertainment, all that while building up a reputation of a humble person with good sportsmanship. If you ask me, that's something to give him a bit of credit for... As he starts streaming, we see more that he's also just a young man with big money and quite an ego (if you're looking for angels, go to heaven), then he does this one big mistake out of greed and suddenly some people can only go "Bring the pitchforks!!!".
He did do a pretty shitty thing, people are rightfully annoyed.
I absolutely agree he should be able to come back and do his thing, as to how that would look I’d be unsure. I’m not a fan of a lifetime of exile for a mistake, or ill-judgement at all.
Oh sorry. No native speaker here, I had to look up "fuck that noise" (phrase to show strong disagreement with a statement/opinion), and I thought you were completely disagreeing with my whole post's message of "yes, really bad move and rightful anger at that, but given repentance is shown, he shouldn't be an outcast for ever more". Given my misunderstanding, I thought your last sentence about people wanting to see him play was sarcasm (as in "people don't care as long as famous person plays well/is pretty/is entertaining" etc..)
As someone monolingual, and also who doesn’t always explain himself well, can’t complain!
My issue is more that as a society we tend to be more forgiving of exceptional talent, for very understandable reasons.
In the StarCraft context people will bemoan the absence of a Savior or a Life, you rarely see folks making a case for the less talented players permabanned.
Not quite the same scenario here of course. I’ve no particular issue with a Flash return, but just not on the basis of him being incredible at Brood War. Indeed one can argue he was only in a position to hawk crypto to his fans by virtue of a rather unimpeachable status within the game, and with great influence comes greater responsibility.
On April 07 2024 02:04 Magic Powers wrote: Assuming Flash has committed an offense (which I think is debatable), it would be outside of his SC career, but within his streaming career. I think that's part of the reason why it's difficult for some people to let him to make a full return. If I recall correctly Flash was also accused of not owning up to his mistake, and that could also play into it. It makes sense that he wouldn't admit to a crime, because he wasn't involved in criminal behavior. That complicates matters, as there are always people who are unwilling to make a distinction.
Yeah fair. I think because streaming is such a huge component of the current BW ecosystem it’s hard to separate from merely being a progamer, and that rather complicates things.
Aside from ASL you can’t really be a BW pro without tapping into streaming in some capacity.
These people are so competitive, they would be playing on their deathbed if possible. Flash even more so. It's evident something else is holding him back as well. Jinjin had posted his father was ill too.
On April 07 2024 03:07 CHEONSOYUN wrote: flash has to answer to his audience and the korean netizen public not the fanboys here
starcraft is fine without him as is.
eh, Bisu, Sea, ect other coingate people are streaming fine Seems like at this point, it got to point where only people who care are non-sc stream watchers and just netizens just trying to stir shit up but even then it kinda got past expiry date with bisu and sea and all
On April 07 2024 18:58 weiliem wrote: Question is, even if Flash is back, can he beat the Snow now? I don't think so 🤣🤣
Last time they played, Snow won 5-0 in very convincing fashion. It's another interesting angle. Maybe Flash is afraid that he doesn't have it in him to make a full return to his old form.
On April 07 2024 18:58 weiliem wrote: Question is, even if Flash is back, can he beat the Snow now? I don't think so 🤣🤣
Last time they played, Snow won 5-0 in very convincing fashion. It's another interesting angle. Maybe Flash is afraid that he doesn't have it in him to make a full return to his old form.
Pusagi confirmed finally after all these years? haha I still press X to doubt tho..
On April 07 2024 18:58 weiliem wrote: Question is, even if Flash is back, can he beat the Snow now? I don't think so 🤣🤣
Last time they played, Snow won 5-0 in very convincing fashion. It's another interesting angle. Maybe Flash is afraid that he doesn't have it in him to make a full return to his old form.
You mean when Flash wiped the floor with him playing random?
On April 07 2024 18:58 weiliem wrote: Question is, even if Flash is back, can he beat the Snow now? I don't think so 🤣🤣
Last time they played, Snow won 5-0 in very convincing fashion. It's another interesting angle. Maybe Flash is afraid that he doesn't have it in him to make a full return to his old form.
You mean when Flash wiped the floor with him playing random?
The most recent battle they had was after Flash's military service. He was testing the waters with a smurf account and didn't do too well. Hasn't made another apperance since.
How come Bisu made a comeback from the crypto scandal but Flash couldnt? I think that with a smart PR strategy he can do a comeback. For example, we could play in tournaments and donate the money he makes to donors, charity, or invest in the community in some other ways.
On April 07 2024 18:58 weiliem wrote: Question is, even if Flash is back, can he beat the Snow now? I don't think so 🤣🤣
Last time they played, Snow won 5-0 in very convincing fashion. It's another interesting angle. Maybe Flash is afraid that he doesn't have it in him to make a full return to his old form.
You mean when Flash wiped the floor with him playing random?
The most recent battle they had was after Flash's military service. He was testing the waters with a smurf account and didn't do too well. Hasn't made another apperance since.
Surely Flash stopped playing because he lost to Snow on the ladder.
EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/6K0OhlE.png)
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