Hope everyone had a wonderful holiday season and welcome to 2019! ASL7 is just around the corner, prelims happening soon so consider this a hybrid between a normal monthly PR and an ASL specific PR. Lots of big moves this month with some surprising results and solid play out of certain individuals. Let’s dive into the first edition of the PR for 2019.
#1: Soulkey (+5)
Using the momentum of his phenomenal KSL2 win, Soulkey vaults himself to #1 in the first PR of the year. Recency bias aside, after his 2-4 loss to Last in KSL1, we really saw Soulkey push himself to excel at a traditionally difficult matchup. His combined 8-1 against both Last and Sharp put the exclamation point on his incredible run. Competent muta control along with calculated aggression shows signs of the Soulkey of old. In a field that will be mostly comprised of Zergs and Protoss with the lack of FlaSh in this tournament, I’ve got a good feeling about Soulkey’s chances in ASL. Oh, and #2 in sponmatches doesn’t hurt either.
#2: EffOrt (-1)
As I said last month, I would push EffOrt down a rank if he once again showed poor sponmatch results. And he hasn’t improved much, infact, he went 0-5 against FlaSh in the month of December. Luckily, no one else really can contest this #2 place except a healthy FlaSh, so EffOrt only slides down one spot. EffOrt will need to prove his worth in ASL7 if he wishes to keep his top 2 spot. Anything less than a finals appearance will be considered a failure in my book. He’s on a short leash right now and if he gets knocked out in the Ro16, expect me to come down hard on him.
#3: Flash (-1)
FlaSh haters rejoice, you all know who you are. FlaSh slides down a rank mainly due to him not being able to play in the ASL7 with his wrist injury. At full strength or even participating in ASL7, FlaSh would have easily been top 2 this PR still as his sponmatches continue to show excellent results. Unfortunately, he is being sidelined again and who knows how much longer he has until he’s forced into military service. We hope he gets better soon.
#4: Sharp (+2)
Sharp’s excellent play and his 2nd place finish at KSL2 pushes him up to top 4. His first series against Rain in the semifinals was a shocker to most, with excellent army engagements and sharp early-mid game factory pushes. His mine control was the most prominent portion of his play, never letting Rain take comfortable engagements and punished his lack of shuttle bombs. The wildcard rematch for the ASL7 showed that Sharp’s KSL run was no fluke, coming back with the reverse sweep to get him a seeded spot in the Ro16. While he was systematically picked apart by Soulkey, I do think Sharp has improved considerably. His TvT is still a stable rock that can only really be challenged by FlaSh and Last. With the former not in ASL, and Last being another seed, as long as Sharp can look to shore up his TvZ he’ll probably have a smooth ride into the Ro8.
#5: Rain (-2)
Rain falls after losing back to back series against Sharp in both KSL and ASL. The man who had a fairly straightforward victory in the ASL vs KSL showmatch at Blizzcon over Last now seems to struggle pushing by an in-form Sharp. It seems like his macro-based play and early-game micro advantages were negated by Sharp’s early-pressure based style and endless fields of mines. I’m sure he’ll be looking back at the replays to fix his large army engagements. But on the plus side, his PvZ seems to have improved tremendously over the past month with wins over EffOrt and Larva (x2). Hopefully this will carry him to a deeper run in ASL, and his PvP is still the best in the world.
#6: Last (-2)
Ouch. 0-4 at the hands of Soulkey in the semifinals at KSL2 is a brutal beatdown for the guy who 4-2'd him last time. We could potentially see a brewing rivalry between these two players. That being said, his build orders were very… questionable. I’m not really sure what Last’s gameplan was going into that series, but the heavy emphasis on wonky proxy rax openers left me scratching my head. After his interview at Blizzcon where he remarked that he saw ways to strengthen the 1-1-1 to oppose the new heavy ling style Zergs were beginning to use, he never once pulled it out. He is seeded into the Ro16, and I think that his TvT is still carrying him, but with weaknesses showing in his other matchups, Last is not looking like a top contender moving into the next ASL.
#7: Mini (+1)
Once it gets to this point, the rankings are a bit up in the air. With only proleague being played in the month of December and the semifinals of KSL, there wasn’t a whole lot of StarCraft to be played. Mini’s #7 here mainly on the back of longevity in the scene. He’s been a consistent performer who is always so close to breaking into a player like Rain, but just falls short by inches. His 3-2 win over Action in the Wild Card definitely should give him a nice boost of confidence moving forward, as his PvZ never looked too great. Only time will tell if Mini really can step up to aid the Protoss line with Shuttle leaving for the military.
#8: Where (+1)
Where remains in our top 10 after a quiet month mainly for longevity and potential. He’s been making more and more of a splash in the scene since ASL2, and I think it’s fair to continue to reward him with good placements in the PR. Good ZvZ and a reasonable ZvP means with the map pool and prospective player field, he’ll be in a good position to make another Ro8 in ASL7. As long as he manages to dodge Last and Sharp, I think he shouldn’t have too much trouble.
#9: Snow (New)
Snow makes it mainly for his outstanding MVP performance in the Moo Proleague with a perfect 6-0 record with top notch wins over Rain and an ACE win over FlaSh. It’s just a more casual content-first proleague, but still impressive for the man who has been very quiet outside of the PR for much of 2018. I expect a lot of Protoss players to be in the ASL so this will benefit Snow, and we hope to see him make another deep run.
#10: Action (New)
I really think you could make an argument for anyone at #10 given a reasonable paragraph of support. Action did lose to Mini in the Wild Card, but I don’t think he should have much trouble climbing back to the Ro16 at minimum. He’s a veteran Zerg that has shown some signs of the former Mafia Zerg in his KT days, and making the finals of Moo Proleague doesn’t hurt. Managing to pick up an ACE win over Larva definitely helped him get the nod to slide in to the very end. A decent ZvZ coupled with a very good ZvP means Action should look to make a good run.
-- Close But No Cigar (CBNC) ---
Shuttle: Shoutouts to Shuttle, you will be missed. The Protoss line just got a bit weaker. Shuttle was a consistent player and it is tragic that his military had to come around right as he started regaining his old ASL1 form. Hope to see him back soon. If he wasn’t going to military, I would probably put him around 6/7th.
Mind/Light: Because it’s a field of mostly Zerg and Protoss, I expect both of our TvZ specialists to put on a good fight in the group stage depending on the draw. But then you’ll see their TvP and you’ll realize why neither of these two will ever make a run deeper than the Ro8. Oh yeah, their TvTs are pretty bad too. Cross fingers and pray is my strategy for these two.
Cadenzie: Shoutouts to our girl who will be taking on the competition in the qualifiers.
Writer: FlaShFTW Graphics: v1 Editors: Bigfan Photo Credits: Blizzard Entertainment
I think we very well might see a ZvZ finals like Effort Vs Soulkey or Effort vs Jaedong. I just hope for the players not to put themselves in a 4 player all zerg bracket like they’ve done before. I think Snow appeared to have the best PvZ in the last tournaments. I hope for some exciting upsets where Best or Mini take down a favorite. I would be very surprised to see Rain in the finals again. As far as upsets, there is the potential for Sharp/Mind/Light knocking out Jaedong/Soulkey/Effort early on. My ideal final would be Effort against a Protoss where Effort showd some cool builds like Mole Zerg against Toss. I am also very anxious to see how T players will approach TvZ in this tournament giving Effort’s dismantling of Flash’s 1-1-1 build. Cheers for a good ASL7. They always deliver!
something that bothers me though is the comparisons of these top players and their current forms to how good they were pre sc2. Do you seriously think they were better in 2009? These guys have been playing and studying actively for two years now, the level of skill in starcraft has risen across the board. If soulkey showed signs of his old form he would be disappointed in himself. The only players who I can think of who havent improved are maybe stork and jaedong. I actually think jaedong has improved in some ways but gotten worse mechanically..and I donno whats up with stork. Does he even care about competing anymore?
ASL 6 Soulkey lost to Effort and Shuttle, finishing LAST in his ro16 group. How can he be the best? EffOrt and FlaSh didn't even play in KSL, and he won the finals against... Sharp. Tbh even Jaedong seems criminally underrated here, last two starleagues he placed second and in the other he was eliminated from his group by 1) A misset hotkey and 2) Flash.
I feel like this PR is just a concession to all the Flash haters that don't like how FlashFTW is a Flash fan.
I'll read it later, thanks for writing, I just wanted to post my Flash complaints before anyone else could.
Keep in mind that ASL6 was over 2 months ago, and players lose their form if they aren't regularly training. On that point, Soulkey just recently destroyed Last and showed a great form overall. I think it's fair to rate him above either EffOrt or Flash who didn't play in the latest KSL, and haven't had as much results since ASL6. On that point, I would've placed Flash at the #2 slot for sure. ASL6 was a while back, and Flash has won most of his sponmatches vs EffOrt in the last 2 months so from my perspective, Flash is #2 even with his injury. One could even argue a #1 spot if they really tried.
On January 03 2019 13:51 FyRe_DragOn wrote: I always enjoy reading these. Good writeup
something that bothers me though is the comparisons of these top players and their current forms to how good they were pre sc2. Do you seriously think they were better in 2009? These guys have been playing and studying actively for two years now, the level of skill in starcraft has risen across the board. If soulkey showed signs of his old form he would be disappointed in himself. The only players who I can think of who havent improved are maybe stork and jaedong. I actually think jaedong has improved in some ways but gotten worse mechanically..and I donno whats up with stork. Does he even care about competing anymore?
You bring up a good point, and my personal take is that the players now are more skilled and much more knowledgeable than they were in the past. Sure, their reaction times can be a bit less at times, but overall, the skill level has definitely went up and above the KeSPA era. However, a lot of folks still cling tightly to that era and believe it was the highest skilled era due to the team environment and such. Definitely something interesting to think about, but I doubt the mind of some will be changed regardless.
People I would have put on this list: Rush- dude is #1 on global rank and playing like it Best - dude is killing it in mpl Byul- also killing it in mpl Stork- also very high in global despite not playing in Ksl asl or mpl
People I wouldn’t have put in this list Mini Action Sharp Last
On January 03 2019 14:27 BigFan wrote: Keep in mind that ASL6 was over 2 months ago, and players lose their form if they aren't regularly training. On that point, Soulkey just recently destroyed Last and showed a great form overall. I think it's fair to rate him above either EffOrt or Flash who didn't play in the latest KSL, and haven't had as much results since ASL6. On that point, I would've placed Flash at the #2 slot for sure. ASL6 was a while back, and Flash has won most of his sponmatches vs EffOrt in the last 2 months so from my perspective, Flash is #2 even with his injury. One could even argue a #1 spot if they really tried.
On January 03 2019 13:51 FyRe_DragOn wrote: I always enjoy reading these. Good writeup
something that bothers me though is the comparisons of these top players and their current forms to how good they were pre sc2. Do you seriously think they were better in 2009? These guys have been playing and studying actively for two years now, the level of skill in starcraft has risen across the board. If soulkey showed signs of his old form he would be disappointed in himself. The only players who I can think of who havent improved are maybe stork and jaedong. I actually think jaedong has improved in some ways but gotten worse mechanically..and I donno whats up with stork. Does he even care about competing anymore?
You bring up a good point, and my personal take is that the players now are more skilled and much more knowledgeable than they were in the past. Sure, their reaction times can be a bit less at times, but overall, the skill level has definitely went up and above the KeSPA era. However, a lot of folks still cling tightly to that era and believe it was the highest skilled era due to the team environment and such. Definitely something interesting to think about, but I doubt the mind of some will be changed regardless.
In a hypothetical match-up between the two versions of the same players, the general consensus is that the current version of the ex-professional players would win initially due to the meta-game advancements, but the professionals would catch up quickly and surpass the current standards due to their more thorough practice regimen and superior mechanical crispness once the strategical understanding levels out.
Bisu in particular has said on stream that he is able to replicate around 60% of his past mechanical proficiency, and perhaps 70% on a good day. Bisu is somebody who is extremely sensitive to being able to execute the motions of the game (he was notorious for being truly obsessed with playing Brood War only on Windows XP, due to the game having a slightly altering reaction speed difference which he could not properly play his trademark style without), so I'm willing to vouch for his words more than the gamers who were less reliant on their fundementals and mechanics.
There is no single universal truth that applies to all the players, and it really does depend on what kind of player you are, and how heavily reliant you were on the past professional practice regime to excel as a competitive player. However, most streamers have gone on the record that their gaming hardware was vastly superior in the past, although it cannot be denied that their overall level of play has increased due to their superior theoretical understanding of the game itself.
I just wanna say Best looks like he made a new PvT meta by going Feedback against Vessels. I’ve seen him use it to good effect in quite a few recent games. Very cool to see him 100% going into ASL7.
On January 04 2019 03:12 Alpha-NP- wrote: I just wanna say Best looks like he made a new PvT meta by going Feedback against Vessels. I’ve seen him use it to good effect in quite a few recent games. Very cool to see him 100% going into ASL7.
Does that work considering how much space dark archons take? Or maybe this is viable in flank situations for the lack of space? Are there replays/videos?
On January 04 2019 03:12 Alpha-NP- wrote: I just wanna say Best looks like he made a new PvT meta by going Feedback against Vessels. I’ve seen him use it to good effect in quite a few recent games. Very cool to see him 100% going into ASL7.
Does that work considering how much space dark archons take? Or maybe this is viable in flank situations for the lack of space? Are there replays/videos?
There are 2 games when he uses it and uses it well. Enjoy!
Feedback is awesome but the issue is that you have to be faster than your opponent for it to mean much. Liking the shuttle play though, that should stop it from getting stuck in the army/EMPed.
In related news Snow is pushing in PvZ for one corsair to scout and using maelstrom to defend against mutalisks or hydralisks. Exciting times for fans of the red ball.
On January 03 2019 16:56 iFU.pauline wrote: so much hate for EffOrt. BlindFan still frustrated.
No need to resort to such attacks. I didn't write this PR, and haven't written one since the ASL2 one in 2016. Or is the fact that Flash is top 1/2 in my book that harmful to your effort fanboyism?
On January 04 2019 06:50 RWLabs wrote: Feedback is awesome but the issue is that you have to be faster than your opponent for it to mean much. Liking the shuttle play though, that should stop it from getting stuck in the army/EMPed.
In related news Snow is pushing in PvZ for one corsair to scout and using maelstrom to defend against mutalisks or hydralisks. Exciting times for fans of the red ball.
SnOw has been doing that b.o for a while, it flows well after 1 gate exp openers. Do you have any recent vods of him doing it?
On January 03 2019 16:56 iFU.pauline wrote: so much hate for EffOrt. BlindFan still frustrated.
No need to resort to such attacks. I didn't write this PR, and haven't written one since the ASL2 one in 2016. Or is the fact that Flash is top 1/2 in my book that harmful to your effort fanboyism?
I get that it says Writer: FlashFTW at the bottom, but it says Text by: BigFan at the top. This is a little confusing. I had the impression you wrote it too.
On January 04 2019 07:30 Alpha-NP- wrote: I’d like to see a VOD where Snow stops a Hydra-allin with a Maelstrom. Is that what you were talking about RWLabs?
No, he must be opening gate exp (zeal pressure) into 1 sair. The normal response vs gate exp is 4 or 5 hatch powering into lair. He scouts like he normally does, if he sees a hydra allin he wouldn't go Mael/DA (he'd add cannons and tech to storm). He probably scouts continuously with his sair to check for spire timings, if he sees a spire he gets a DA.
Going Mael/DA is to punish and deter zergs from going mutas. Mael is great even vs hydras so even if they don't go mutas (after you scout their spire) it doesn't really matter.
That said, if he sair scouts and sees Z went 3 hatch lair/spire into 5h i assume he keeps pumping sairs and goes for +1 air. He probably plays it out like a "normal" PvZ from there.
On January 03 2019 16:56 iFU.pauline wrote: so much hate for EffOrt. BlindFan still frustrated.
No need to resort to such attacks. I didn't write this PR, and haven't written one since the ASL2 one in 2016. Or is the fact that Flash is top 1/2 in my book that harmful to your effort fanboyism?
I get that it says Writer: FlashFTW at the bottom, but it says Text by: BigFan at the top. This is a little confusing. I had the impression you wrote it too.
The top automatically fills in whoever posted the article. Of course, it can be changed when it gets newsed, but if the staff member it gets changed to doesn't have css access, it'll break the whole code. Articles like these use css, and some of the more fancy stuff have a lot of code in them that might even use js so only certain staff can post. There's a reason there's a credit section at the bottom
Regardless of that, FlaShFTW made it clear that EffOrt better starting putting up some sponmatch stats for several PRs now, and despite being a Flash fan, he still placed EffOrt on top which is ironic when you think about it. If Pauline can't accept that other members don't see EffOrt in the same light, well, I can't help him there.
On January 03 2019 13:51 FyRe_DragOn wrote: I always enjoy reading these. Good writeup
something that bothers me though is the comparisons of these top players and their current forms to how good they were pre sc2. Do you seriously think they were better in 2009? These guys have been playing and studying actively for two years now, the level of skill in starcraft has risen across the board. If soulkey showed signs of his old form he would be disappointed in himself. The only players who I can think of who havent improved are maybe stork and jaedong. I actually think jaedong has improved in some ways but gotten worse mechanically..and I donno whats up with stork. Does he even care about competing anymore?
The Korean commentator, the_marine put it in this perspective:
Its a case by case situation, and people lime flash, he thinks is better due to evolving build concepts and execution and optimization, when if they are bit weaker physically compared to pro days
However, JD's weakness on his play is elevated and his physical ability dropped so it had big impact
On January 03 2019 16:41 MightyBeast wrote: People I would have put on this list: Rush- dude is #1 on global rank and playing like it Best - dude is killing it in mpl Byul- also killing it in mpl Stork- also very high in global despite not playing in Ksl asl or mpl
People I wouldn’t have put in this list Mini Action Sharp Last
Thanks for the mpl info (and glad to hear my boy Stork's doing well!), but Sharp and Last certainly deserve to be somewhere on the top 10. Mini and Action I could agree with.
On January 03 2019 16:41 MightyBeast wrote: People I would have put on this list: Rush- dude is #1 on global rank and playing like it Best - dude is killing it in mpl Byul- also killing it in mpl Stork- also very high in global despite not playing in Ksl asl or mpl
People I wouldn’t have put in this list Mini Action Sharp Last
your opinion is terrible, you must be sexaddict on discord?
On January 03 2019 16:41 MightyBeast wrote: People I would have put on this list: Rush- dude is #1 on global rank and playing like it Best - dude is killing it in mpl Byul- also killing it in mpl Stork- also very high in global despite not playing in Ksl asl or mpl
People I wouldn’t have put in this list Mini Action Sharp Last
your opinion is terrible, you must be sexaddict on discord?
Lol how did you know that... but in all reality my 4 would easily beat the second 4 in a best of 7 hypothetical series, I think my opinions great.
On January 03 2019 16:41 MightyBeast wrote: People I would have put on this list: Rush- dude is #1 on global rank and playing like it Best - dude is killing it in mpl Byul- also killing it in mpl Stork- also very high in global despite not playing in Ksl asl or mpl
People I wouldn’t have put in this list Mini Action Sharp Last
your opinion is terrible, you must be sexaddict on discord?
Lol how did you know that... but in all reality my 4 would easily beat the second 4 in a best of 7 hypothetical series, I think my opinions great.
Hey, I will gladly bet you money on it. Can we have some Korean user reach out to these players for a sponmatch? I assune everybody here wants me to throw down a tournament with cash won off MightyBeast
On January 03 2019 16:41 MightyBeast wrote: People I would have put on this list: Rush- dude is #1 on global rank and playing like it Best - dude is killing it in mpl Byul- also killing it in mpl Stork- also very high in global despite not playing in Ksl asl or mpl
People I wouldn’t have put in this list Mini Action Sharp Last
your opinion is terrible, you must be sexaddict on discord?
Lol how did you know that... but in all reality my 4 would easily beat the second 4 in a best of 7 hypothetical series, I think my opinions great.
On January 03 2019 16:41 MightyBeast wrote: People I would have put on this list: Rush- dude is #1 on global rank and playing like it Best - dude is killing it in mpl Byul- also killing it in mpl Stork- also very high in global despite not playing in Ksl asl or mpl
People I wouldn’t have put in this list Mini Action Sharp Last
Asking a few questions here: are you implying Rush is the best player right now? Because the wording of your comment about him playing like #1 global rank seems to imply that.
Best went 3-2 and 2 of his wins were over pretty mediocre terrans and even worse TvP players, he lost to Mind somehow, and his other win was against Movie, someone who I'm not really considering to be a good Protoss. He was a favorite in 4 of his games and lost to Snow which was expected. Not really "killing it" with only 1 game over .500
Byul played one game, and it was a TvT against ForGG, someone who literally came back a month ago and hasn't really been seen since. Again, idk if you have selective memory or you're trolling hardcore, because how can you describe someone as "killing it" off of a one game sample size. Hello?
Stork needs to show me some performance first before I even consider him. He's been in the same slump since 2017 and hasn't had any expectations to get better. He's a variety/entertainment streamer now, not someone who seems to care about getting better.
People you don't think belong there, I laugh at the notion that Sharp and Last don't belong. You're right, Top 4 and Top 2 finishers at KSL just don't belong I guess. Sharp beats Rain twice in BoX series but Sharp is the one that doesn't belong? What?
Action was thrown in at #10, and if you read my statement about him, you could have literally anyone in there at #10.
Mini is Mini, he's in there for past results more than anything and still better than anyone you listed in your 4.
EDIT for more statistics: Rush was 0-2 in MPL, he lost to Tyson and Sangho (??? who?). Sharp was 3-1, his only loss was to FlaSh. Granted, all of his 3 wins were against Terrans. Last was 1-0. Action was 3-3 but beat Larva in an ACE match. I'd give him an extra win just for that tbh. Mini and Stork both didn't participate in MPL.
I don't understand his list either. Sharp and Last are for sure somewhere in the Top 10 with Sharp even getting to the KSL finalists. You honestly can't do better than that aside from either win it or do better in ASL. Stork and Rush both had or show promise, but rarely deliver. Rush was said to be a great Terran, but he hasn't done much and Stork is no longer the gamer he used to be. As far as I know, he even got mad fun of by other gamers so he tried to improve for a bit a while back, but I don't think he got enough motivation.
ByuL won a single game in MPL against ForGG who imo played the game badly, aka could've played better. A single game means nothing, need a larger sample. Finally, Best, maybe an argument in the bottom 5, but nothing higher either.
On January 03 2019 16:56 iFU.pauline wrote: so much hate for EffOrt. BlindFan still frustrated.
No need to resort to such attacks. I didn't write this PR, and haven't written one since the ASL2 one in 2016. Or is the fact that Flash is top 1/2 in my book that harmful to your effort fanboyism?
I don't care mister BW Editor-in-Chief, I hold you responsible -_-
On January 03 2019 16:56 iFU.pauline wrote: so much hate for EffOrt. BlindFan still frustrated.
No need to resort to such attacks. I didn't write this PR, and haven't written one since the ASL2 one in 2016. Or is the fact that Flash is top 1/2 in my book that harmful to your effort fanboyism?
I don't care mister BW Editor-in-Chief, I hold you responsible -_-
What? Now you lost me. Responsible for what exactly? Publishing this PR? Formulating my thoughts on PR rankings in a coherent manner where I believe Flash should be higher? This is a Power Rank which can be subjective, and this thread serves as a platform for discussing the rankings.
Many posters already stated their own thoughts pretty well, and yet you come in and decide to go for a personal attack instead of doing the same. In the interest of keeping the current ongoing discussion fruitful, I'm going to ask you nicely to refrain from pushing your luck further and contribute like everyone else.
On January 03 2019 14:27 BigFan wrote: Keep in mind that ASL6 was over 2 months ago, and players lose their form if they aren't regularly training. On that point, Soulkey just recently destroyed Last and showed a great form overall. I think it's fair to rate him above either EffOrt or Flash who didn't play in the latest KSL, and haven't had as much results since ASL6. On that point, I would've placed Flash at the #2 slot for sure. ASL6 was a while back, and Flash has won most of his sponmatches vs EffOrt in the last 2 months so from my perspective, Flash is #2 even with his injury. One could even argue a #1 spot if they really tried.
On January 03 2019 13:51 FyRe_DragOn wrote: I always enjoy reading these. Good writeup
something that bothers me though is the comparisons of these top players and their current forms to how good they were pre sc2. Do you seriously think they were better in 2009? These guys have been playing and studying actively for two years now, the level of skill in starcraft has risen across the board. If soulkey showed signs of his old form he would be disappointed in himself. The only players who I can think of who havent improved are maybe stork and jaedong. I actually think jaedong has improved in some ways but gotten worse mechanically..and I donno whats up with stork. Does he even care about competing anymore?
You bring up a good point, and my personal take is that the players now are more skilled and much more knowledgeable than they were in the past. Sure, their reaction times can be a bit less at times, but overall, the skill level has definitely went up and above the KeSPA era. However, a lot of folks still cling tightly to that era and believe it was the highest skilled era due to the team environment and such. Definitely something interesting to think about, but I doubt the mind of some will be changed regardless.
In a hypothetical match-up between the two versions of the same players, the general consensus is that the current version of the ex-professional players would win initially due to the meta-game advancements, but the professionals would catch up quickly and surpass the current standards due to their more thorough practice regimen and superior mechanical crispness once the strategical understanding levels out.
Bisu in particular has said on stream that he is able to replicate around 60% of his past mechanical proficiency, and perhaps 70% on a good day. Bisu is somebody who is extremely sensitive to being able to execute the motions of the game (he was notorious for being truly obsessed with playing Brood War only on Windows XP, due to the game having a slightly altering reaction speed difference which he could not properly play his trademark style without), so I'm willing to vouch for his words more than the gamers who were less reliant on their fundementals and mechanics.
There is no single universal truth that applies to all the players, and it really does depend on what kind of player you are, and how heavily reliant you were on the past professional practice regime to excel as a competitive player. However, most streamers have gone on the record that their gaming hardware was vastly superior in the past, although it cannot be denied that their overall level of play has increased due to their superior theoretical understanding of the game itself.
yes, it's an interesting discussion. Shuttle and Last for instance are a ton better than the old days while other players like Stork suffered greatly. I mostly make a broad statement because it's the running opinion, or was for several years at least.
On January 05 2019 12:13 XenOsky wrote: Sharp is imo top #3 dude is playing AMAZING lately
his TvZ needs some work still in an expected Zerg heavy field. Especially with Soulkey and EffOrt in the field. Semifinals would be nice but Sharp has proved his TvP and his TvT has been excellent as usual. If his TvZ was better he's ahead of FlaSh, but since it isnt hes not.
My list was just based on trends I’ve been noticing in the overall sc game and my list was meant to reflect players that a) I think are skilled b) are either on the rise from relative obscurity to the top or are maintaining historical form recently c) I think are underrated because not enough people seem to acknowledge their existence because the sc scene has grown from 2016 on in great speeds that are difficult to measure.
I’ll hand other posters the point on Sharp he is a good player but he is weak vs z and i know 2nd place in Ksl is good but he really got his naked buttocks exposed by Soulkey, metaphorically speaking. He didn’t look like a top 25 form in the finals. Rush was never implying is number one on power rank, only acknowledges he is number one on blizzard global ladder which all pro players play on including flash. Tournament results of 1st/2nd place are the biggest cash prizes but that doesn’t mean they are the only good indicator of form. Maybe my list has flaws but so does the “official” one maybe change it to 15 or 20 spots? It’s only a monthly publication so that wouldn’t be too much effort for the writers perhaps.
I think best > mini is an obvious point that I am accurate on. Eros_byul, I was basing my whole post on that game vs forgg, but he looked damn good in it, and I watch his stream too and he crushed ladder and stuff too. He is someone more people covering Korean sc should acknowledge. Last idk he’s looked awful since winning ksl1 and shows no signs of getting better soon and isn’t participating in a lot is stuff. When healthy he’s a good player though.
On January 06 2019 13:54 MightyBeast wrote: My list was just based on trends I’ve been noticing in the overall sc game and my list was meant to reflect players that a) I think are skilled b) are either on the rise from relative obscurity to the top or are maintaining historical form recently c) I think are underrated because not enough people seem to acknowledge their existence because the sc scene has grown from 2016 on in great speeds that are difficult to measure.
I’ll hand other posters the point on Sharp he is a good player but he is weak vs z and i know 2nd place in Ksl is good but he really got his naked buttocks exposed by Soulkey, metaphorically speaking. He didn’t look like a top 25 form in the finals. Rush was never implying is number one on power rank, only acknowledges he is number one on blizzard global ladder which all pro players play on including flash. Tournament results of 1st/2nd place are the biggest cash prizes but that doesn’t mean they are the only good indicator of form. Maybe my list has flaws but so does the “official” one maybe change it to 15 or 20 spots? It’s only a monthly publication so that wouldn’t be too much effort for the writers perhaps.
I think best > mini is an obvious point that I am accurate on. Eros_byul, I was basing my whole post on that game vs forgg, but he looked damn good in it, and I watch his stream too and he crushed ladder and stuff too. He is someone more people covering Korean sc should acknowledge. Last idk he’s looked awful since winning ksl1 and shows no signs of getting better soon and isn’t participating in a lot is stuff. When healthy he’s a good player though.
On January 06 2019 13:54 MightyBeast wrote: My list was just based on trends I’ve been noticing in the overall sc game and my list was meant to reflect players that a) I think are skilled b) are either on the rise from relative obscurity to the top or are maintaining historical form recently c) I think are underrated because not enough people seem to acknowledge their existence because the sc scene has grown from 2016 on in great speeds that are difficult to measure.
I’ll hand other posters the point on Sharp he is a good player but he is weak vs z and i know 2nd place in Ksl is good but he really got his naked buttocks exposed by Soulkey, metaphorically speaking. He didn’t look like a top 25 form in the finals. Rush was never implying is number one on power rank, only acknowledges he is number one on blizzard global ladder which all pro players play on including flash. Tournament results of 1st/2nd place are the biggest cash prizes but that doesn’t mean they are the only good indicator of form. Maybe my list has flaws but so does the “official” one maybe change it to 15 or 20 spots? It’s only a monthly publication so that wouldn’t be too much effort for the writers perhaps.
I think best > mini is an obvious point that I am accurate on. Eros_byul, I was basing my whole post on that game vs forgg, but he looked damn good in it, and I watch his stream too and he crushed ladder and stuff too. He is someone more people covering Korean sc should acknowledge. Last idk he’s looked awful since winning ksl1 and shows no signs of getting better soon and isn’t participating in a lot is stuff. When healthy he’s a good player though.
On January 06 2019 13:54 MightyBeast wrote: My list was just based on trends I’ve been noticing in the overall sc game and my list was meant to reflect players that a) I think are skilled b) are either on the rise from relative obscurity to the top or are maintaining historical form recently c) I think are underrated because not enough people seem to acknowledge their existence because the sc scene has grown from 2016 on in great speeds that are difficult to measure.
I’ll hand other posters the point on Sharp he is a good player but he is weak vs z and i know 2nd place in Ksl is good but he really got his naked buttocks exposed by Soulkey, metaphorically speaking. He didn’t look like a top 25 form in the finals. Rush was never implying is number one on power rank, only acknowledges he is number one on blizzard global ladder which all pro players play on including flash. Tournament results of 1st/2nd place are the biggest cash prizes but that doesn’t mean they are the only good indicator of form. Maybe my list has flaws but so does the “official” one maybe change it to 15 or 20 spots? It’s only a monthly publication so that wouldn’t be too much effort for the writers perhaps.
I think best > mini is an obvious point that I am accurate on. Eros_byul, I was basing my whole post on that game vs forgg, but he looked damn good in it, and I watch his stream too and he crushed ladder and stuff too. He is someone more people covering Korean sc should acknowledge. Last idk he’s looked awful since winning ksl1 and shows no signs of getting better soon and isn’t participating in a lot is stuff. When healthy he’s a good player though.
On January 06 2019 13:54 MightyBeast wrote: My list was just based on trends
You're new here it looks like, but my entire PR is based off of trends and recency bias. Always has and always will.
I’ll hand other posters the point on Sharp he is a good player but he is weak vs z and i know 2nd place in Ksl is good but he really got his naked buttocks exposed by Soulkey, metaphorically speaking. He didn’t look like a top 25 form in the finals.
So you would ignore everything he did in the entire month of December just so you can selectively pick out one series in a weak matchup? Doesn't sound like a very good line of reasoning.
Tournament results of 1st/2nd place are the biggest cash prizes but that doesn’t mean they are the only good indicator of form. Maybe my list has flaws but so does the “official” one maybe change it to 15 or 20 spots? It’s only a monthly publication so that wouldn’t be too much effort for the writers perhaps.
First, tournaments are the BEST indicators of form. Not your ladder rank and not the sponmatches. Offline tournaments and online tournaments will always and forever have been the best method of seeing who is the best in the PR. You wouldn't look at League of Legends Challenger Solo Queue to see who's the best players in each lane would you? Why would you do the same for Starcraft Ladder? The Ladder is a nice eye-test to see who might be good at the game, but it doesn't not show how good people are in the tournament setting which is the most important metric everyone in this community uses.
And you've never written a PR. It was hard enough for me to find players after Mini on the PR that I would confidently write about in this month. There are very obvious players like FlaSh, EffOrt, SK, Last, Rain, etc. Then it gets very difficult for the ranking. That is why we have a CBNC, it fills out a list of potential players that could've made the top 10, but are probably in that 11-15 spot. But because when you get down that far it's so difficult to order players, we don't actually order them anymore. It's not worth the effort to go through that process.
I think best > mini is an obvious point that I am accurate on.
By what metric? You haven't actually given me an argument or any sort of evidence to support your claim. You just say he's better. Please provide your reasoning and then we can have a conversation on this.
Eros_byul, I was basing my whole post on that game vs forgg, but he looked damn good in it, and I watch his stream too and he crushed ladder and stuff too. He is someone more people covering Korean sc should acknowledge.
He played fine. Did not play "damn good". He blind countered Forgg twice that game with the early rax scout and then 3 fact vs 1 fact port. He had a massive lead that he should've ended the game 10 minutes earlier if a player like Sharp or Last was playing.
Last idk he’s looked awful since winning ksl1 and shows no signs of getting better soon and isn’t participating in a lot is stuff. When healthy he’s a good player though.
What? He looked fine in KSL2 until the awful series against SK. Again, it seems you have really selective memory when it comes to what was played to fit your opinion. He 3-0d Leta (expected), 3-1d Modesty (expected) and 3-0d Where (slightly not as expected I thought Where would take at least one game off of him). Did he get rofl stomped by SK? Yes. But he looked great in his 3 other series that he played. Last's longevity in the scene and also being KSL1 champ also scores him high marks. And being consistent top 5 in sponmatches is also important.
Look, I think you bring up a lot of good points. I’m not trying to catch misdirected or unessecary hate. Best played great in mpl for his team, that’s my evidence for claiming he’s better than mini. What has mini done that’s noteable recently? A lot of top players are disinterested in Ksl and asl. So yeah the results of those matter but you’re over hyping it. Last I just feel If he’s not participating and injured that’s gotta count against him somehow.
Last is the second best Terran in the world and a top 4 player along with Flash, Effort, and Soulkey. That's honestly, in my opinion, the biggest problem with this power ranking. Putting Sharp above Last is absurd. He lost a series to Soulkey (who FlashFTW ranks as #1) in which he played unorthodox style relative to his usual play. No one who watched that series thought "this proves that Soulkey is better than Last". It was clear that something was up with Last - and I personally would rank 1. Flash 2. EffOrt 3. Last 4. Soulkey 5. Sharp 6. Rain 7. Jaedong 8. Mini 9. Shuttle 10. Snow.
Sharp got dumpstered by Soulkey, barely got by Rain with some shakey play (Last/Flash would have crushed Rain that day), and his earlier results in KSL 2 and ASL 6, while establishing him as perhaps a top 5 player, definitely doesn't break him into that elite top 4. Don't forget that Last 3-0'd Sharp in ASL 6.
On January 07 2019 11:17 Rodya wrote: Last is the second best Terran in the world and a top 4 player along with Flash, Effort, and Soulkey. That's honestly, in my opinion, the biggest problem with this power ranking. Putting Sharp above Last is absurd. He lost a series to Soulkey (who FlashFTW ranks as #1) in which he played unorthodox style relative to his usual play. No one who watched that series thought "this proves that Soulkey is better than Last". It was clear that something was up with Last - and I personally would rank 1. Flash 2. EffOrt 3. Last 4. Soulkey 5. Sharp 6. Rain 7. Jaedong 8. Mini 9. Shuttle 10. Snow.
Sharp got dumpstered by Soulkey, barely got by Rain with some shakey play (Last/Flash would have crushed Rain that day), and his earlier results in KSL 2 and ASL 6, while establishing him as perhaps a top 5 player, definitely doesn't break him into that elite top 4. Don't forget that Last 3-0'd Sharp in ASL 6.
Last looked amazing a month ago, now and with his wrist injury you could make a case that he should be higher rated, but I don't think it's a very strong case. While I agree that Last's series against Soulkey wasn't indicative of Last's skill and without going into the various rumors it still comes down to it that he didn't play well at all and it affects his ranking. Sharp's run in KSL was something to behold and his recent development and explosion from a TvT specialist to a well rounded top Terran contender has been a spectacle. You can see how much he prepares for his games and how much he must have practiced to get these results. Even in his 1-4 loss to Soulkey he performed well, Soulkey just looked unstoppable in that series. I think he's well earned to claim slot #4 this month. And Last placing behind Sharp and Rain (who like Last has been struggling a bit after a dominating streak) making both Last and Rain fall down 2 steps from last months ranking seem fair to me.
EPT
(+5)![[image loading]](https://www.teamliquid.net/staff/BigFan/ASL_PR/Soulkey.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://www.teamliquid.net/staff/BigFan/ASL_PR/EffOrt.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/prech/files/RaceIcons/Ticon_pastel_Hyde.png)
(-1)![[image loading]](/staff/BigFan/Flash.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/BigFan/ASL_PR/Sharp.jpg)
(-2)![[image loading]](/staff/BigFan/ASL_PR/Rain.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/BigFan/ASL_PR/Last.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/BigFan/ASL_PR/Mini.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/BigFan/ASL_PR/Miso.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/BigFan/ASL_PR/Snow.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/BigFan/ASL_PR/Action.jpg)
