-Reduced the size of the high ground expansion (both the top and bottom side of it). -Widened the path between the 2 thin bridges as a result. -Enlarged both the ramps into the high ground expansion. -Added path to centre (can be walled with 5 depots). -Added buildable space on the low ground. -Widened the path to the high ground expansion from the natural.
27th August 2018 Version 0.9 Marshmallow Toast Outdated Version 0.9 Picture: + Show Spoiler +
25th September 2018 Version 0.91 Marshmallow Toast -Removed close 3rd base. -Extended highground to touch the main (deleting thin side path). -Enlarged both ramps onto the highground. -Moved highground base position. -Resources at all highground bases restored to full amounts (and 8th mineral patch added at closest 3rd). -Removed compound at lowground vertical expansion. Outdated Version 0.91 Picture: + Show Spoiler +
26th September 2018 Version 0.92 Marshmallow Toast -Reduced the size of the high ground expansion (both the top and bottom side of it). -Widened the path between the 2 thin bridges as a result. -Enlarged both the ramps into the high ground expansion. -Added path to centre (can be walled with 5 depots). -Added buildable space on the low ground. -Widened the path to the high ground expansion from the natural.
Now let's see: -as toss , against zerg , you must wall in only like this: pylon , forge and gate , in the same line ; from what i saw against a computer ling rush , you need 3 zealots to defend ; -as toss , against terran: I AM SO GLAD THE TERRAN CAN'T BUILD TURETS AT ALL ON THAT MEDIAN PART ; but they can siege your 3rd from that cliff pretty easily Overall good map , but on BattleNet people play most FS and Python ; i try to see if someone plays a game with me
@prosatan, standard 8 tile nat entrance same as on circuit breaker/fs etc. As often on my maps, the natural entrance here has quite a long thin neck. This funnels hydras making 3 hat hydra a shade easier to defend in PvZ. 28 second nat to nat time.
Infact you will notice that the mains and nats are almost identical to Clay Fields, (note this includes being able to build an offensive cannon behind the natural mineral line) (but you cant build a bunker there).
Hope you enjoy the map, let me know if you find anything.
While on the subject of walling: 4 pylons to wall a small bridge, 2 depots from the nat entrance to the pillar, 4 depots from the pillar to the ramp (high ground 4th ramp), or you can wall from the pillar towards the bridge, 2 pylons to block the thin backdoor path into the 3rd, 4 depots to wall the high ground 4th base, and all of the places where you might want to wall have been made consistent for both players.
By the way, the larger blobs of tar next to the main bridges are overlord spots. And tanks on the unbuildable high ground cannot hit the base. Tanks also cant hit the 2nd gas in the corner expos without going onto the bridge.
So its been 2 weeks, might make some edits, what do you suggest? Thanks for the support HerbMon, much appreciated btw guys tomorrow is the 12th day of the month so expect another Star Tale blog.
Just make sure you don't have so many bases huddled around your nat. You can get six bases behind three points of defense right now which are all very close to your nat and rally point. Furthermore the centre and some other areas should be wider to allow for more moving and flanking space. Also think about how armies will actually have to move. right now there is no reason to ever even enter an open space if you don't want to. Get rid of the more useless peripheral pathways, for example the low ground paths at 7/1 o'clock. Some expansions seem to cover excessive space, for example the corner expansions. Those little compound cliffs at 4/10 o'clock also take up excessive space without doing that much. Do you really need the extra geyser in the corner bases? What's the map size – 128×112? With this many expansions you might reasonably be able to go beyond that, for example to 128×120 or even 128×128. So this is how you can regain some space. What you should do with it is spreading bases out more and creating more open areas around the map.
Haven't play the map but my take on it from just looking at the picture:
- Even with 'reduced resources' the third and fourth gas are way too free. - Bigger problem: there's only narrow paths and it's like a maze if you want to flank. - Zerg don't have a 'choke' to easily defend a 3rd with lurkers in ZvT.
ZvT looks okay, but the zerg is forced to do 2hatch muta or some other wacky aggressive strategy. ZvP looks like a nightmare. Even if it's annoying for Protoss to actually move his army around the map, he will still have a huge advantage if he has an army of corsairs to control the air.
100 min and 50 gas? Are those typos? because you could just skimp on those expos completely O_o.
Compare your map and Autobahn which is similar in the way that it consists entirely of "walk-through expos" and observe how effective Terran and Lurker Fields in ZvP seem to be on that map. And Autobahn has far more spread out expos and allows for more mobility. Making those double gas bases high ground with tight ramps to defend would help ZvT a lot I think, especially if you separate the paths to the two ramps more so M&Ms cannot easily pressure them both at once.
On September 11 2018 21:18 Rovant1c wrote: It seems that theres a new（ASL？）Map Competition. Freakling and Jukado would you try？
That seems to be more of a semi-official/open thing with no specific purpose other than to screen for maps for use in future leagues in general. That being said the concept seems to be a bit better thought out than the previous installments, with actually two categories (standard maps and more "experimental" ones) and two submissions per category and participant. I still miss any hint of reliable quality/bug control though, but there is a ban of protected map files, so they hopefully have some one knowledgeable enough (like LatiAs) at hand to have a look at each map in the editor. I also cannot find any schedules or deadlines and half of the post is actually a graphic with text. So it would be great to have some one with better Korean knowledge than me (hardly any) and Google Translate (well…) combined making a full and proper translation. As for me, I can always just submit four maps from my continuously updated stock… Making new maps specifically for a competition is just too demanding and time intensive to be worth it. Maps are done when they are done… You can seen it with most of the "new" maps from recent leagues. Transistor is rooted in the Kespa era, it seems, Sylphid has been around for years… So I think that is not a problem in general.
First impression is that it looks cool and unique but the one thing I notice right away is that it looks pretty easy for Terran to creep up to 4-5 bases without a lot of risk in tvp, a good player could position their tanks in such a way that they’re covering at least 4 of those bases in a single connected tank spread. Then again I sux at pvt =) but it is just my personal observation. I’m sure good Protoss players could swing it to their advantage
Looks alright, and I generally dislike 1s maps because there isnt enough expos for zerg (which isnt the case here) With some tweaks (like opening the map a little bit) and testing I see potential
On September 11 2018 22:25 Freakling wrote: 100 min and 50 gas? Are those typos? because you could just skimp on those expos completely O_o.
Compare your map and Autobahn which is similar in the way that it consists entirely of "walk-through expos" and observe how effective Terran and Lurker Fields in ZvP seem to be on that map. And Autobahn has far more spread out expos and allows for more mobility. Making those double gas bases high ground with tight ramps to defend would help ZvT a lot I think, especially if you separate the paths to the two ramps more so M&Ms cannot easily pressure them both at once.
That seems to be more of a semi-official/open thing with no specific purpose other than to screen for maps for use in future leagues in general. That being said the concept seems to be a bit better thought out than the previous installments, with actually two categories (standard maps and more "experimental" ones) and two submissions per category and participant. I still miss any hint of reliable quality/bug control though, but there is a ban of protected map files, so they hopefully have some one knowledgeable enough (like LatiAs) at hand to have a look at each map in the editor. I also cannot find any schedules or deadlines and half of the post is actually a graphic with text. So it would be great to have some one with better Korean knowledge than me (hardly any) and Google Translate (well…) combined making a full and proper translation. As for me, I can always just submit four maps from my continuously updated stock… Making new maps specifically for a competition is just too demanding and time intensive to be worth it. Maps are done when they are done… You can seen it with most of the "new" maps from recent leagues. Transistor is rooted in the Kespa era, it seems, Sylphid has been around for years… So I think that is not a problem in general.
I see，language is always a big problem.By the way,KSL S2 is going to begin,will there be some new maps or a “neo roadkill”？
If I'm playing Protoss, besides just rushing carriers how do I stop a Terran push? Terran masses up at their high ground 4th and then just pushes. Let's say Toss is top right and T is bot left, how do you defend? If you take the 3rd/4th at the top, then T pushes through the middle and slow pushes up the ramp and your 4th is dead, quickly followed by your 3rd and the game. If you take 3oclock, they walk down their ramp at the 4th and slow push to the high ground, kill that base, then siege the outer 3oclock lowground base, followed by the game.
-Removed close 3rd base. -Extended highground to touch the main (deleting thin side path). -Enlarged both ramps onto the highground. -Moved highground base position. -Resources at all highground bases restored to full amounts (and 8th mineral patch added at closest 3rd). -Removed compound at lowground vertical expansion.
i think combining the high ground 4/10 o clock expo and the cliff beside it should help to loosen up the map a bit, else it looks very tight and incredibly defense favored (aka T favored)
I agree. While the changes are in the right direction, you still have issues where the map is too chokey, and there are only 3 attack paths to each side of the map. As konadora said, the same problem you fixed in this last edition has the same problem at the double bases at the 4/10 positions.
The problem with doing the same solution (which honestly is recommended), is now you only have 5 bases per side of the map. Which means unless you want to have a match point style of low-econ map, you'll need to add a 6th base somewhere on each side which is a daunting task without re-introducing the choked style of map.
Still looks tight. Part of the problem is that most of the redistributed space went straight into the 1/7 o'clock high ground expos where it is sitting around doing nothing
Version 0.92 Marshmallow Toast -Reduced the size of the high ground expansion (both the top and bottom side of it). -Widened the path between the 2 thin bridges as a result. -Enlarged both the ramps into the high ground expansion. -Added path to centre (can be walled with 5 depots). -Added buildable space on the low ground. -Widened the path to the high ground expansion from the natural.
It's nice you keep refining the map! :D I followed this thread with interest and the map is starting to get really decent and I kinda like it. Maybe turn one of the double expos in 4/10 o'clock into mineral only - I feel there's too much gas on the map and the corner bases in top left and bottom right are double gas as well :O
On September 27 2018 03:47 Red.T45 wrote: It's nice you keep refining the map! :D I followed this thread with interest and the map is starting to get really decent and I kinda like it. Maybe turn one of the double expos in 4/10 o'clock into mineral only - I feel there's too much gas on the map and the corner bases in top left and bottom right are double gas as well :O
I was thinking the same thing. Try changing the 4 o clock and 10 o clock expos to mineral only?
Been redesigning this map over the last few weeks, gone through about 5 different layouts and ended up with this. Work in progress ofcourse, need to add ramps and stuff.
EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/J5xSLkE.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/OPqwbnY.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/vJUaMdQ.jpg)
to defend ;
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/POeV5IP.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://preview.ibb.co/fWbTtV/slice.jpg)
