Here is a video showing 2 ZvP games on the map with eonzerg casting/playing:
eonzerg in the video above seems a bit concerned with walling at the Top left and Top right nats. I think/hope you will find that you can do some really strong defensive walls at both nats no problem. There are rocks that are fully unwalkable so you can make nice tight walls.
Top Right main and nat
Can you see the small rocks? You can enlarge the pictures if not. There is a rock on either side of the natural entrance. And there is the white chimney doodad on the right hand side there, so you can make your wall higher up, closer to the ramp and natural hatchery if you want to.
Top Left main and nat
A rock on the right hand side of the nat entrance, the white chimney on the left hand side of the nat entrance. And a rock on the left hand side of the nat slightly higher up.
Let me know if you find any problems with the walling or anything else though. Thanks again for making the video.
---------------------------------------------------------------- @tankgirl, the 12 o clock base and the 6 o clock base arent comparable. One is lowground, mineral only and wide open, while the other is highground, has gas and has 2 small ramps into it. And yes the 12 o clock has a semi drop spot behind it.
Had a play/obs tonight with A- player Clearoo and A+ SnowLove on this map. Clearoo pointed out that the mineral patches are all 1200 at main bases and gas is 4000. Is that supposed to be that way? I'm not sure I've noticed other maps like that. Thanks :D
I still do not like the reduced-by-default resources. There is also a lot of bad and unfinished terrain editing going on (for example on the edges of all the side 3rds. The bridge-edges at the mineral onlies seem to be there just for the sake of it, but instead of enhancing the aesthetics they add boring-looking long straight lines...
@Th1rdEye Thankyou for the kindness. Id join you/be hosting more myself but my new modem doesnt work with my brood war machine so I cant go on iccup at the moment. (Ive got a dual boot setup of xp and debian with brood war on the xp drive. Need to look into getting wine I guess). Yes the resources are meant to be 1200 minerals, 4000 gas.
@Freakling Earlier in the thread you said "I'd be interested to learn what the players think about the reduced minerals." This is the first time Ive seen you say you dont like the resource amounts. Why dont you like it?
The cliff edges at the 3rds arent unfinished. I could ofcourse put in an extra row of cliff tiles to smooth off the edge but at the expense of losing a row of buildable space. The other slightly more pretty option would be to move the cliff edges outwards by 1 tile. However, the reason I did it this way is to make each water area overlord safe. The current setup has a consistent straight line of unwalkable so gameplay is tight. If I went for the pretty option here, then there would be little spaces where marines etc could step closer and be able to pick off an overlord. Basically there was a small compromise decision to make; gameplay or aesthetics and I chose gameplay. I dont think its too ugly, but yes this is the obvious target for 'something that could be done differently'. Its important to prioritise overlord safety at these spots because the bottom left main cant easily get an overlord to a natural cliff, so overlords need a place to park. Overall I think the current setup hits the right mix. Lastly, this is a slightly strange point but it was also kind of a statement. It was sort of an attempt by me to say to newer mapmakers dont be afraid to do it your way, be confident. Obviously I cant prove that, and I expect it seems like a cop out but its true. The idea that its not your fault that you cant edit tiles to be fully unwalkable, and that brood war is a closed source game so we cant make changes that we would like to be able to. However, I admit it can be fun to work with an artificially limited set of tools. Again, I dont think its that ugly and I do think the gameplay is as tight as can be so Im not planning on changing those cliffs. Freakling, you suggest there are other spots with bad and unfinished terrain. Where?
Regarding the piers/harbours/asphalt to water cliffs: I think they look quite nice. Interesting that you think the 3 o clock is a long straight line. For me the couple of corners break it up and its reasonably attractive. They provide a bit of variation to the visuals.
I absolutely want you to pick holes in the map. The cliff edges at the high ground 3rds are the obvious target. Ive now explained why they are as they are. The asphalt to water cliffs dont bother me at all. By the way the big mud patch there at 3 is sort of meant to be straight line as if it was originally a man made area, in keeping with it being a kind of harbour or something.
Honestly that these are the only complaints so far from you Freakling (the infamously most grumpy person on the net), I consider that a massive compliment.
I haven't played that map nor seen it in action yet, but I am concerned about PvTs when players both spawn either on top or bottom. The push distance between bridges looks pretty short.
Theres a few things to talk about on that subject. First of all, its the same as on Circuit Breaker. Measuring with an scv in seconds:
Circuit Breaker Between Left spawns: 13.8/14.5 Between Right spawns: 14.4/14.6
CAS Between Top spawns: 14.1/14.8 Between Bottom spawns: 15.6/15.0
FS Around 16.5 to 17
There are some other important differences between CAS and FS though. Reaching the bridge is not the end of the contain/attack procedure. Both Circuit Breaker and CAS have more of a buffer space between the bridge and the actual entrance to the natural than FS. So terrans still have to travel some more distance.
Additionally, the terran has to cross a thinner bridge than on FS. The width of the bridge on CAS can be exploited defensively by the protoss player to pick off the more isolated tanks that initially cross. This kind of a defensive move is further supported by the map architecture on CAS because the path to the 3rd is wider than on FS, giving protoss more room to manoeuvre behind the bridges in order to attack the terran units that venture over the bridge.
Some Protoss players choose to fully engage the terran push as it crosses the middle of the map (depending on the intricacies of the builds and the timings etc). Well the middle of the map is much wider on CAS than on FS so this method of dealing with terran armies is aided.
A minor point is that the 2 bottom spawns on FS have an annoying little spot between the bridge and the entrance to nats where terran can put a tank in a more protected cubby. I made sure to get rid of them on CAS.
And lastly a really important point. The 2nd bridge! Protoss can retreat and allow the terran to approach, then later use the 2nd bridge to flank around. Conversely on fighting spirit, you get pinned in or you can try to go around through the high ground 3rd base but thats through 2 thin ramps and is a long distance (some Protoss players do still attempt it though). The terran might prepare his contain to account for this move ofcourse, and the bridge is quite small. However, they are a bit wider than on CB, and they are a bit shorter than on CB so Protoss attempting a break out is absolutely a viable tactic.
Im planning on bumping the resources up to standard amounts. Currently the mineral patches are 1200 and 4000 gas, but planning on switching them back to 1500 minerals and 5000 gas. What do you guys think?
I think you should have done this from the get-go. Experimental resource distribution is definitely not the focus of this map, so it ends up more like a diversion. From what I've seen as games and casts on this map some players may not even have been aware of the reduced resource count and just thrown off by their running out so fast. The layout is too much the all too familiar FS for any one to even expect that there might be something nonstandard going on. The layout also does not require or demand in any way that the resources be lowered.
I recommend moving on to another map, even if you don’t have much time for a whole new one maybe you could work on it little by little. I feel like this one and the other badlands map you have are as complete as they can get.
On July 06 2018 06:22 Jukado wrote: Im planning on bumping the resources up to standard amounts. Currently the mineral patches are 1200 and 4000 gas, but planning on switching them back to 1500 minerals and 5000 gas. What do you guys think?
No, otherwise there's no point in playing this map, just play FS
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/euB4YvY.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DxNwVvR.jpg)
