1)For some users may it be difficult you can ask for assistance on FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/bwapi/ 2)Some A.I. dont run with Multi-ChaosLuncher so you can play them on UDP if you have another computer. 3)Here is the list with all the A.I. s and their stats or win ratio: http://sscaitournament.com/index.php?action=scores 4)Some AI uses .EXE files, in order to run those you must put = null on config file.
Im a amateur D player and here are some games on First Person View
On August 21 2016 09:02 LetaBot wrote: These AIs aren't super yet.
They are a good start tho.
LetaBot is very good. Not a lot of people know them, well... i least i didnt know they exist! A good starting point to people afraid to play 1v1 on iccup
If you train only with BWAPI bots, it can at least take you from complete beginner to a level where you can compete with D rank players. It might depend on your race though, since there are only a handful of good bots.
As someone who never played a real RTS and just finished the campaign, it took me more than a hundred games to get used to the UI, hotkeys, macro, build orders, scouting and matchup knowledge.. Playing these bots is a really fun way to learn all that. The fact that you can choose which race and BO to play against, and even choose a slower speed setting if you want, makes the whole learning process much more productive.
Older players take all this stuff for granted. I would have been so embarassed if I had to play those older players while trying to get good. At some point you will have no idea what you're supposed to do, and because you can only play on fastest, you will be overwhelmed to see your minerals pile up to 3000 in seconds or see all your units die while you try to plan your next move. That doesn't sound like fun to me.. No wonder so many new players are quitting. Luckily we have BWAPI =D
Wow this is awesome and surprisingly easy to setup, maybe post this on starcraft/reddit? Just lost vs the zerg ai :p that lurker burrow micro haha. I tried to setup the ai 3-4 years ago but it didnt work. Thank you for posting this. A great tool to improve and resemble a human player.
Is the ai reacting to my build, how does it work? Is it possible to see a Spire build t v z?
Edit: ahhhh this Killerbot help so strong ... loving it
No suprise for me, i played a couple of bot's already and Letabot is the strongest i've seen so far. It can still be beaten relativly easy if you know what it's doing though for a C- player.
On August 21 2016 12:51 snowfruit wrote: If you train only with BWAPI bots, it can at least take you from complete beginner to a level where you can compete with D rank players. It might depend on your race though, since there are only a handful of good bots.
As someone who never played a real RTS and just finished the campaign, it took me more than a hundred games to get used to the UI, hotkeys, macro, build orders, scouting and matchup knowledge.. Playing these bots is a really fun way to learn all that. The fact that you can choose which race and BO to play against, and even choose a slower speed setting if you want, makes the whole learning process much more productive.
Older players take all this stuff for granted. I would have been so embarassed if I had to play those older players while trying to get good. At some point you will have no idea what you're supposed to do, and because you can only play on fastest, you will be overwhelmed to see your minerals pile up to 3000 in seconds or see all your units die while you try to plan your next move. That doesn't sound like fun to me.. No wonder so many new players are quitting. Luckily we have BWAPI =D
Yes, its a very good practice to play against this AIs, im sure a lot of D/C will lost at least one game
There is nothing to be ashame of losing to older guys tho.
I rembember the quote of Michael Jordan: " I missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed.
That advice is for life in general, failure is part of life. Good luck.
On August 21 2016 16:30 ionONE wrote: Wow this is awesome and surprisingly easy to setup, maybe post this on starcraft/reddit? Just lost vs the zerg ai :p that lurker burrow micro haha. I tried to setup the ai 3-4 years ago but it didnt work. Thank you for posting this. A great tool to improve and resemble a human player.
Is the ai reacting to my build, how does it work? Is it possible to see a Spire build t v z?
Edit: ahhhh this Killerbot help so strong ... loving it
Im not very familiar with reddit, maybe you can help.
Lol, that Zerg ai has very good micro. I dont know exactly how they build it, but there is a tutorial on how to build one. Most AI stuck at late game...
I think the AI chooses the build at start, im not sure 100%
On August 21 2016 16:48 Cele wrote: LetaBot SSCAI 2015 Final+ 90% Winrate
No suprise for me, i played a couple of bot's already and Letabot is the strongest i've seen so far. It can still be beaten relativly easy if you know what it's doing though for a C- player.
Agreed. But i found that most of them can easily be defeaten by an early push (im T). Bunkers and tanks outside the natural expansion, but if you go for a fast expansion, that will be very fun.
On August 21 2016 17:03 tumejoramigo wrote: There is nothing to be ashame of losing to older guys tho.
I rembember the quote of Michael Jordan: " I missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed.
That advice is for life in general, failure is part of life. Good luck.
Oh I agree. You learn something new from every loss, and you've gotta enjoy that. But I'm weird when it comes to online play. Others might not get embarassed like me, but they too will feel frustrated when they get stomped. I just don't think iccup is the best place to learn if you're new. Hopefully this will be less of an issue on ShieldBattery, as there will be plenty of noobs.
On August 21 2016 16:30 ionONE wrote: Is the ai reacting to my build, how does it work? Is it possible to see a Spire build t v z?
At least against Protoss, Killerbot (Marian Devecka) will make some Mutalisks if your corsairs are late or you skip them entirely. Also, it's possible to force more zerglings instead of drones with a 1base opening. So it does adapt, but not enough against an early rush. I don't think it will make mutalisks in tvz against a bio opening. Although to be honest, I find it almost impossible to hold off lurkers without tanks..
In general, I think most bots don't adapt at all in terms of build orders. Some of them do, like ICEbot. But they have very poor judgement as you might imagine.
On August 22 2016 01:38 FourTwentynator wrote: i can't get a protoss bot to work, im getting an error that im missing a .dll =/
There is a lot of protoss bots, try to ask on facebookgroup for support. If you are getting that error maybe the PATH to dll file is wrong, also you must use both DLLs files: binary and bwapi.dll
Oh I agree. You learn something new from every loss, and you've gotta enjoy that. But I'm weird when it comes to online play. Others might not get embarassed like me, but they too will feel frustrated when they get stomped. I just don't think iccup is the best place to learn if you're new. Hopefully this will be less of an issue on ShieldBattery, as there will be plenty of noobs.
Yes is true, iccup is full of old players that fake noob acounts
Arg. Followed all of the steps closely, but I can't seem to open a second instance of broodwar using ChaosLauncher. It either points me to the instance of starcraft already running, or simply crashes. Is there something obvious I'm doing wrong?
On August 22 2016 09:13 joust85 wrote: Arg. Followed all of the steps closely, but I can't seem to open a second instance of broodwar using ChaosLauncher. It either points me to the instance of starcraft already running, or simply crashes. Is there something obvious I'm doing wrong?
It is mentioned in important point 2
2)Some A.I. dont run with Multi-ChaosLuncher so you can play them on UDP if you have another computer.
You could use a virtual machine or a sandbox program as well to make it work.
On August 22 2016 21:07 ionONE wrote: I have tested all bots with a winrate +80% winrate, only Marian Devecka works so far following the videotutorial.
Did you make sure to download the BWAPI.dll for each bot as well.
LetaBot for example runs on BWAPI 3.7.4 whereas Marian Devecka runs on BWAPI 4
On August 22 2016 09:13 joust85 wrote: Arg. Followed all of the steps closely, but I can't seem to open a second instance of broodwar using ChaosLauncher. It either points me to the instance of starcraft already running, or simply crashes. Is there something obvious I'm doing wrong?
Make sure that you run the program in admin mode. Some bots requiere an aditional computer and create the game on UDP in order to AI to join the game.
I've been watching the SC AI Tournament stream for the past several days, and I have to say it's fascinating. I love how everyone makes unique bots that operate in distinct and weird ways. There's the Lurker-abusing leapfrog bot. There's the 1-base Zealot bash-your-head-against-the-opponent bot. And there's the super impressive macro-intensive strategic bots that will micro its units in some uncanny-valley facsimile of a human opponent.
But I love how the best, most undefeated, highest-ELO bot is one that just builds 16 cannons in its natural and goes for 2-base Carrier. Bots just have NO ANSWER to the Carrier unit and freak out whenever they see static defenses.
When I saw this thread I decided to give it a go. I followed the instructions in the video and everything is working great. KillerBot is up and running. Thanks for making this thread! It made the process super easy.
As with any AI it's not hard to abuse. KillerBot completely collapses to cheese, including any kind of cannon rush. It doesn't even react. You can kill it completely just doing some unorthodox shit.
Things get much more interesting in normal games.
If you're good at SC/BW you will still crush the AI. They can't compete with timing attacks, counters, and good harassment. But if you're not that good at SC/BW, especially multitasking? Well, I went for a sub-par build to see how things would play out. I supply blocked myself once, and I didn't harass much. Ultimately I got my expansion up with some light defenses.
And then KillerBot wrecked my shit with superior macro and some surprisingly reasonable Muta micro. It actually circled its Mutas around my defenses to hit my mineral line, and it kept poking at my bases (including my main) until it found a weakness. The AI could even determine if it had enough Mutas to overrun my defenses, at which point it would attack my dragoons or cannons and take them out. Really impressive work for an AI. It didn't care much for storms though.
I know a lot of people have "ladder anxiety" when playing against real people, even when it's just a friendly. If you're a new player who want to improve your mechanics without judgment, or if you just want to practice your build orders, I would probably recommend this approach. It will give you a much more realistic challenge than the standard SC/BW AI, and KillerBot's 12 hatch opening is the perfect thing to macro against. And if you get bored with KillerBot, there's like 100 other bots for different races.
If you leave any breathing room for Killerbot, it will have 70 drones and 3/4th of the map just 12 minutes into the game. Good luck with that. :D
The competition is really heating up. I hope the next AI tournament results will look like this: 1. Letabot 2. Killerbot 3. tscmoo
Although if Letabot and Killerbot meet in their current state, I think it will go to Killerbot, since Letabot is pretty much guaranteed to die to a Lurker opening.
By the way, the AI ladder seems to be quite erratic. Letabot 2015 had a 90% winrate just a few days ago, now it's at 55%. Might wanna change the system.
LetaBot is impressive. Various openings and really good micro.
Wonder if the bots will ever be able to deal with Lurkers properly. There's a good Lurker push bot that some times shows up in http://www.hitbox.tv/sscaitournament and it just kills.
On August 25 2016 00:44 snowfruit wrote: If you leave any breathing room for Killerbot, it will have 70 drones and 3/4th of the map just 12 minutes into the game. Good luck with that. :D
The competition is really heating up. I hope the next AI tournament results will look like this: 1. Letabot 2. Killerbot 3. tscmoo
Although if Letabot and Killerbot meet in their current state, I think it will go to Killerbot, since Letabot is pretty much guaranteed to die to a Lurker opening.
By the way, the AI ladder seems to be quite erratic. Letabot 2015 had a 90% winrate just a few days ago, now it's at 55%. Might wanna change the system.
That is the LetaBot submitted to the SSCAI 2015. I keep it around to collect data for my thesis. The LetaBot version I send to the CIG 2016 should be more consistent. It is currently at 85% and can be fount in the top 5.
I doubt that killerbot will be in the Top 3 in the SSCAI 2016. The latest version of my bot (not submitted) should be able to defeat it, and other bots also caught on to its strategy.
It will most likely be between the following Terran bots: - Iron Bot - Tscmoo - LetaBot - Krasi0
On August 25 2016 03:20 Aylear wrote: LetaBot is impressive. Various openings and really good micro.
Wonder if the bots will ever be able to deal with Lurkers properly. There's a good Lurker push bot that some times shows up in http://www.hitbox.tv/sscaitournament and it just kills.
It will be able to deal with lurkers once the MCTS is fully implemented. Then it will also have the concept of tank lines.
I haven't fully added the text mined build orders yet. So the openings will be more varied soon.
On August 25 2016 03:20 Aylear wrote: LetaBot is impressive. Various openings and really good micro.
Wonder if the bots will ever be able to deal with Lurkers properly. There's a good Lurker push bot that some times shows up in http://www.hitbox.tv/sscaitournament and it just kills.
It will be able to deal with lurkers once the MCTS is fully implemented. Then it will also have the concept of tank lines.
I haven't fully added the text mined build orders yet. So the openings will be more varied soon.
That's awesome! LetaBot is my favorite bot to watch right now. I'm looking forward to seeing the updated version.
Question: How did you deal with XIMP? Did you have to do anything special for it or did LetaBot's normal behavior counter the cannon wall-in? Seems like most bots are programmed to be scared of static defenses so XIMP just rolled people for a while.
On August 25 2016 03:20 Aylear wrote: LetaBot is impressive. Various openings and really good micro.
Wonder if the bots will ever be able to deal with Lurkers properly. There's a good Lurker push bot that some times shows up in http://www.hitbox.tv/sscaitournament and it just kills.
It will be able to deal with lurkers once the MCTS is fully implemented. Then it will also have the concept of tank lines.
I haven't fully added the text mined build orders yet. So the openings will be more varied soon.
That's awesome! LetaBot is my favorite bot to watch right now. I'm looking forward to seeing the updated version.
Question: How did you deal with XIMP? Did you have to do anything special for it or did LetaBot's normal behavior counter the cannon wall-in? Seems like most bots are programmed to be scared of static defenses so XIMP just rolled people for a while.
edit: wording
Just perform an early push whenever you see an early photon cannon.
On August 24 2016 11:02 Aylear wrote: I've been watching the SC AI Tournament stream for the past several days, and I have to say it's fascinating. I love how everyone makes unique bots that operate in distinct and weird ways. There's the Lurker-abusing leapfrog bot. There's the 1-base Zealot bash-your-head-against-the-opponent bot. And there's the super impressive macro-intensive strategic bots that will micro its units in some uncanny-valley facsimile of a human opponent.
But I love how the best, most undefeated, highest-ELO bot is one that just builds 16 cannons in its natural and goes for 2-base Carrier. Bots just have NO ANSWER to the Carrier unit and freak out whenever they see static defenses.
When I saw this thread I decided to give it a go. I followed the instructions in the video and everything is working great. KillerBot is up and running. Thanks for making this thread! It made the process super easy.
As with any AI it's not hard to abuse. KillerBot completely collapses to cheese, including any kind of cannon rush. It doesn't even react. You can kill it completely just doing some unorthodox shit.
Things get much more interesting in normal games.
If you're good at SC/BW you will still crush the AI. They can't compete with timing attacks, counters, and good harassment. But if you're not that good at SC/BW, especially multitasking? Well, I went for a sub-par build to see how things would play out. I supply blocked myself once, and I didn't harass much. Ultimately I got my expansion up with some light defenses.
And then KillerBot wrecked my shit with superior macro and some surprisingly reasonable Muta micro. It actually circled its Mutas around my defenses to hit my mineral line, and it kept poking at my bases (including my main) until it found a weakness. The AI could even determine if it had enough Mutas to overrun my defenses, at which point it would attack my dragoons or cannons and take them out. Really impressive work for an AI. It didn't care much for storms though.
I know a lot of people have "ladder anxiety" when playing against real people, even when it's just a friendly. If you're a new player who want to improve your mechanics without judgment, or if you just want to practice your build orders, I would probably recommend this approach. It will give you a much more realistic challenge than the standard SC/BW AI, and KillerBot's 12 hatch opening is the perfect thing to macro against. And if you get bored with KillerBot, there's like 100 other bots for different races.
Im glad you liked the thread. Ladder Anxiety is real!
Yes, if you let KillerBot grow (By not attacking ) has a solid macro, if you play a lot vs this A.I. will be very useful for developing SC macro skills.
On August 25 2016 00:44 snowfruit wrote: If you leave any breathing room for Killerbot, it will have 70 drones and 3/4th of the map just 12 minutes into the game. Good luck with that. :D
The competition is really heating up. I hope the next AI tournament results will look like this: 1. Letabot 2. Killerbot 3. tscmoo
Although if Letabot and Killerbot meet in their current state, I think it will go to Killerbot, since Letabot is pretty much guaranteed to die to a Lurker opening.
By the way, the AI ladder seems to be quite erratic. Letabot 2015 had a 90% winrate just a few days ago, now it's at 55%. Might wanna change the system.
Yes, KillerBot has amazing macro. Did you lose some games to A.I.?
On August 26 2016 02:46 tumejoramigo wrote: What is the bot with the carrier build?
It's Tomas Vajda / Ximp
On August 25 2016 05:42 LetaBot wrote: I doubt that killerbot will be in the Top 3 in the SSCAI 2016. The latest version of my bot (not submitted) should be able to defeat it, and other bots also caught on to its strategy.
It will most likely be between the following Terran bots: - Iron Bot - Tscmoo - LetaBot - Krasi0
Interesting. But after seeing krasi0 vs Killerbot in nepetas recent cast, I have to agree. I'm thinking too much in terms of AI vs human.
On August 25 2016 00:44 snowfruit wrote: If you leave any breathing room for Killerbot, it will have 70 drones and 3/4th of the map just 12 minutes into the game. Good luck with that. :D
The competition is really heating up. I hope the next AI tournament results will look like this: 1. Letabot 2. Killerbot 3. tscmoo
Although if Letabot and Killerbot meet in their current state, I think it will go to Killerbot, since Letabot is pretty much guaranteed to die to a Lurker opening.
By the way, the AI ladder seems to be quite erratic. Letabot 2015 had a 90% winrate just a few days ago, now it's at 55%. Might wanna change the system.
Yes, KillerBot has amazing macro. Did you lose some games to A.I.?
I lost a ton against AI. Though I won my first ladder game after that. :D
On August 25 2016 05:42 LetaBot wrote: I doubt that killerbot will be in the Top 3 in the SSCAI 2016. The latest version of my bot (not submitted) should be able to defeat it, and other bots also caught on to its strategy.
It will most likely be between the following Terran bots: - Iron Bot - Tscmoo - LetaBot - Krasi0
Interesting. But after seeing krasi0 vs Killerbot in nepetas recent cast, I have to agree. I'm thinking too much in terms of AI vs human.
On August 25 2016 00:44 snowfruit wrote: If you leave any breathing room for Killerbot, it will have 70 drones and 3/4th of the map just 12 minutes into the game. Good luck with that. :D
The competition is really heating up. I hope the next AI tournament results will look like this: 1. Letabot 2. Killerbot 3. tscmoo
Although if Letabot and Killerbot meet in their current state, I think it will go to Killerbot, since Letabot is pretty much guaranteed to die to a Lurker opening.
By the way, the AI ladder seems to be quite erratic. Letabot 2015 had a 90% winrate just a few days ago, now it's at 55%. Might wanna change the system.
Yes, KillerBot has amazing macro. Did you lose some games to A.I.?
I lost a ton against AI. Though I won my first ladder game after that. :D
For those of you who want to practice build orders and macro, I found three solid bots (1 for each race) that work on the current version of BWAPI by just downloading their .dlls from this page:
Krasi0, LetaBot (any version), and tscmoo need other versions or extra stuff, but those three function fine when following the video tutorial in the OP.
Unorthodox stuff still breaks them (gas steal Flash and see what happens) but they all provide a challenge if you let them do their thing. It's been fun exploring the AI world, I'm curious to see what they all can do.
On August 27 2016 11:04 Aylear wrote: For those of you who want to practice build orders and macro, I found three solid bots (1 for each race) that work on the current version of BWAPI by just downloading their .dlls from this page:
Krasi0, LetaBot (any version), and tscmoo need other versions or extra stuff, but those three function fine when following the video tutorial in the OP.
Unorthodox stuff still breaks them (gas steal Flash and see what happens) but they all provide a challenge if you let them do their thing. It's been fun exploring the AI world, I'm curious to see what they all can do.
For my bot you need to download the BWAPI.dll from the site and replace the BWAPI.dll from the chaoslaucher folder with the BWAPI.dll you download.
Huh, I tried that. LetaBot (CIG 2016) didn't move the SCVs at all so I figured it was broken.
Edit: Will do some testing, will report back.
Edit 2: Alright, so while using BWAPI 4.1.2 Injector [RELEASE], replacing the BWAPI.dll in /StarCraft/bwapi-data/BWAPI.dll with the one provided for LetaBot, and pointing the bwapi.ini to LetaBot.dll, Chaoslauncher (running in administrator mode) does not ever open a second instance of SC/BW. It does the usual "Mainthread already running" message but then does not open a new window, whereas it works with every other AI setup. I think this is the problem I ran into earlier as well. The "didn't move SCVs" may have been another Terran bot.
Edit 3: Out of curiosity, I started a 1v1 vs computer game in the single instance of SC/BW running LetaBot. It froze the window for a good minute, then it suddenly activated and crushed the computer in 16x speed. Still cannot open a second instance of Brood War.
On August 27 2016 11:35 Aylear wrote: Huh, I tried that. LetaBot (CIG 2016) didn't move the SCVs at all so I figured it was broken.
Edit: Will do some testing, will report back.
Edit 2: Alright, so while using BWAPI 4.1.2 Injector [RELEASE], replacing the BWAPI.dll in /StarCraft/bwapi-data/BWAPI.dll with the one provided for LetaBot, and pointing the bwapi.ini to LetaBot.dll, Chaoslauncher (running in administrator mode) does not ever open a second instance of SC/BW. It does the usual "Mainthread already running" message but then does not open a new window, whereas it works with every other AI setup. I think this is the problem I ran into earlier as well. The "didn't move SCVs" may have been another Terran bot.
Edit 3: Out of curiosity, I started a 1v1 vs computer game in the single instance of SC/BW running LetaBot. It froze the window for a good minute, then it suddenly activated and crushed the computer in 16x speed. Still cannot open a second instance of Brood War.
You should download the BWAPI 3.7.4 . That one has the .bat file you need to generate a multi instance hack for BWAPI 3.7.4 , it also has a chaoslaucher which is set up correctly for BWAPI 3.7.4
Good to see the interest in Broodwar AI grow! The top bots really are an improvement these last couple of years, real fun to play. With the growing interest of humans to play these AIs, the coders are improving even further, so I say gg
At the moment LetaBot is really pushing things with a scientific approach that translates into a really nice adversary, Blizz should hire this man. krasi0 and Iron are doing good work too, but unfortunately they don't have much time. Persistent updates and long-time involvement, you can't beat it.
Keep those games vs AIs coming and if you like you can send me the replays, I always like to cast man vs machine matches!
I forgot about this thread! I should check out the new bots and updates.
Does anyone know if we'll ever be able to play vs custom AI in a singleplayer/custom game? Right now it's exclusive to multi-instance multiplayer games so you can't save/load for testing purposes, and it's a bit of a hassle to set up.
On April 21 2017 11:44 Aylear wrote: I forgot about this thread! I should check out the new bots and updates.
Does anyone know if we'll ever be able to play vs custom AI in a singleplayer/custom game? Right now it's exclusive to multi-instance multiplayer games so you can't save/load for testing purposes, and it's a bit of a hassle to set up.
You can create/join, save/load multiplayer games using Loacl PC mode, instead of UDP (either another PC or VM), but mainly you need 2 copy Starcraft folder somewhere else, because in multiplayer games (Local PC/UDP) there should be 2 versions of the .mlx (save-file) in maps\save\ in each of the players' folders, so you can create/join the saved game later by browsing to the .mlx file without getting "The game creator closed all available slots!".
You also need to direct Chaos to the other SC folder from settings, before running the other instance of Starcraft.exe, to also save the game in its own path.
Other things can go wrong during the process, but those 2 are the main.
The core idea is to have 2 processes of Starcraft.exe running from different folders, you can check that by Task Manager or Process Explorer.
Probably the simplest way to set things up & play 1v1 against a wide range of bots these days is to use SCHNAIL (https://schnail.com), which also supports custom hotkeys. It has a leaderboard of each bot's rating against humans.
This is especially good for players who don't have excellent internet. This is why lan parties are so important. Finding a similar-skill practice partner who hangs out in the same room as you while you guys heighten each others' skill is, of course, the highest tier of practice. But barring that, with some clever lifestyle choices, one can get pretty gud at Broodwar playing AIs like these. I see the top guys practicing against specific timings and playsytyles, which is apparently offered with this app.
When Flash came back from the military, his close friend and absolute ladder fiend, Motive was able to give him the highest-quality practice against gargantuan stormtoss - and Flash got really good at that lategame scenario. It's ridiculous that P has to go up to 9 bases to trade fairly against 5 base terran by getting pushed back into a 7 / 7 split and sucking up the opponents resources. Like, Toss literally has to macro gateways across 3 mains while constantly pressuring with zealot stormdrops on a partially stable 150ish supply Terran until the Terran mines out of his stolen future 6th and 7th bases.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/yxhrhouekx9wuatiotc5.gif)
